Smokers "Rights"

Originally posted by sparda4355
All of you NON smokers that get together and throw a @#$%^ fit about second hand smoke do things every day knowingly and unknowingly that have far greater health risks than being in the same room as or near somebody smoking a cigarette!

Health risk of smoking isn't the main reason why some don't smoke.
I personally hate the smell!

Originally posted by sparda4355
The same people that complain about cigarette smoking go tanning, eat carcinogenic foods, consume large quantities of liquor, use skin products that are horrible for you, spend hours and hours a day with their cell phone pressed firmly against their ear only inches from their brains, eat frozen dinners, pop over the counter pain killers like candy every time they have the slightest headache or body ache, the list goes on and on...

This list of "unhealthy" activities made me laugh

Stress relief?? You seriously believe that smoking cigarettes is the reason why you feel relieved?

Smoking is the most pointless thing ever.
If you want to smoke then you have to accept the consequenses of having to do it outside when it's cold and dark.

And about non-smoker taking your ability to smoke inside - Why should you be able to smoke in someone elses buildings?? You don't own the public places.

I just skimmed through this but let me say, you smokers can stay outdoors. A 500lb man or woman wolfing down quarter pounders by the barrel full with a french fry i.v. doesn't harm me directly in any way. Now while I may have to see them eat it and muffle the sounds of them shoveling food down their pie hole with music from my ipod, I *DO NOT* have to breathe secondary french fry smoke. Them eating is not going to make my eyes water and me smell like a chimmney.

So you want to be where the fat people are if you think you deserve the same, then I am all for making the fat eat out in the rain with the smokers. What about MY right to breathe smoke free air?

I could go on forever on this, maybe ill make a bubble helmet to contain the smoke and sell them to you smokers.

I don't mean to offend anyone, I have friends who smoke and when I am at their house or in their car I keep my mouth shut. But at work you can go take a long walk off a short pier. Same thing if im at a public place, I don't want to breathe your smoke.

Ok im really done this time.

Originally posted by sparda4355

Originally posted by mule skinner
Smoking is only part of this,the obese or lazy ten to be placed on mnufacuring jobs were they can do the least manual labor.
Lost mine do to the fact that i was an allaround kind of guy.
Got run into the ground picking up the slackers jobs,and still doing mine.
I saw these over weight people B.S.ing with the leads wihile i did their jobs!
Buy the way we were union(outside smoking,no shelter,Minn.unionized),St.Paul had higher wages(non union),i bet they had smoker areas that ruled!!!

That is just plain unconstitutional!

We need to stand UP... we need to fight for our right to reclaim the indoors! Enough of this mightier than thow bull crap that is going on, like these "non-smokers" never do anything that is bad for their health...

We should be aloud to smoke inside and non-smokers should be banned from being aloud to breath in our delicious smoke because they didn't pay the freaking 500% sales tax to get it!

I am allergic to cigarette smoke.

If you promise to keep your smoke away from me, I will promise that none of my phlegm will land on you!

Health risk of smoking isn't the main reason why some don't smoke.
I personally hate the smell!
-------------------------------------------

well, I personally hate the smell of cleaning products with a pine smell...
matter if fact, I hate it so much because I am about guaranteed to be laid up for a few days every time I come in contact with it! Some perfumes has a similar effect on me...not to mention incense and the like. why is your dislike more important than mine.
matter of fact....my son used to get sick when he went into the pool in school...guess what, even after he said it was making him sick, he still had to take swimming classes. later on, years later...hey, they find out that the chlorine in the pools will trigger an asthma attack.
my nephew is allergic to cig smoke, I would never smoke around him...but gee, could you people please stop wearing so much perfume!! doesn't matter one hill of beans if I keep the smoke away from him if you're filling his atmosphere with the same danged chemicals he's reacting to in the smoke...he still ends up in the hospital!
if you can have special treatment because you hate the smell of cigarette smoke, why can't he and others? ban pinesol, so I don't have to miss work every time I walk into a store that happens to have used it earlier that day.
ban perfumes and that crap, so my nephew can get some relief.

Originally posted by uninspired
I *DO NOT* have to breathe secondary french fry smoke.

That's silly, there is no such thing as french fry smoke...

Okay... so you are all for us not being aloud to smoke inside any place that you go... As you so nicely pointed out... we/you don't own these places, but I know several bar owners that do "own" bars... They pay their taxes, some of them have owned bars for 30 plus years and want to allow their guests to smoke inside... Oh wait, they do own the bar but their right to allow their guests to smoke inside has been taken away...

Some people are so selfish they don't even care about the fact that this "no smoking" inside thing has cost some bar owners a LOT of money!

I don't dislike "obese" people... They should NOT have to eat outside or change their eating habits at all... It is their body... BUT, that being said, I PROMISE you there is a HIGHER risk of a "obese" person having a heart attack behind the wheel of their car and crashing into you than there is you having any negative health side effects of being around SECOND HAND smoke!

Get over it smokers, give up , quit...and move on. What a pathetic argument....you gave up your own rights to good Health, ignore the rights of others not to breathe in your passive pollution, you enslave yourselves to a non-productive ritual that requires you to regularly intoxicate yourselves and expect individuals, businesses and governments to give you both the time and a place(nice comfortable smokers room......you'll get them eventually....when you are in hospital with your inhaled carcinagenic ailments) to do it in. You infect our streets, our waterways with the discarded refuse of your selfish habit and good knows how many bush fires have been born from a smokers cigarette butt callously thrown from a vehicle.......need i continue......you insult my senses.............other than that you guys rock.

p.s. need a light>>>>>>>>

[edit on 13-3-2008 by atlasastro]

Originally posted by atlasastro
Get over it smokers, give up , quit...and move on. What a pathetic argument....you gave up your own rights to good Health, ignore the rights of others not to breathe in your passive pollution, you enslave yourselves to a non-productive ritual that requires you to regularly intoxicate yourselves and expect individuals, businesses and governments to give you both the time and a place(nice comfortable smokers room......you'll get them eventually....when you are in hospital with your inhaled carcinagenic ailments) to do it in. You infect our streets, our waterways with the discarded refuse of your selfish habit and good knows how many bush fires have been born from a smokers cigarette butt callously thrown from a vehicle.......need i continue......you insult my senses......

.......other than that you guys rock.

p.s. need a light>>>>>>>>

[edit on 13-3-2008 by atlasastro]

extra space= small area in the basement where no one has any reason to venture!!!
extra time=???? from my experiences in the workplace....weather or not the slackers are smokers is irrelevant! I watch one guy at work walk past me about 7 times every day, either walking to the water fountain to fill his water bottle up, or to the bathroom- I swing by the coke machine in the morning before work starts to get a bottle of pepsi, and it just about lasts the day!!
and, well, there's about ten or so of them that gather everyday for about 15 minutes twice a day.....to decide what they want to order for breakfast...and then lunch....I don't order either, but often find myself picking up the slack for those who do! then there's the chronic slackers who are working harder to avoid the work than they would be if they would just do the work....the "I just want to do the easy parts of the jobs, here, you take the rest". they're always a load of fun! Their idea that I should be working hard, so they don't have to has already costs me the enjoyment of taking a walk out in the open air, or thru a mall, a nice hike through the mountains that I would just love to go up and enjoy!!!
and, well, as far as us infecting your atmosphere with toxic chemicals......

is a vast area of plastic debris and other flotsam drifting in the northern Pacific Ocean, held there by swirling ocean currents.

Discovered in 1997 by American sailor Charles Moore, what is also called the great Pacific garbage patch is now alarming some with its ever-growing size and possible impact on human health.

The "patch" is in fact two huge, linked areas of circulating rubbish, says Dr Marcus Eriksen, research director of the US-based Algalita Marine Research Foundation, founded by Moore.

Although the boundaries change, it stretches from about 500 nautical miles off the coast of California, across the northern Pacific to near the coast of Japan.

The islands of Hawaii are placed almost in the middle, so piles of plastic regularly wash up on some beaches there.

"The original idea that people had was that it was an island of plastic garbage that you could almost walk on. It is not quite like that. It is almost like a plastic soup," Dr Eriksen says.

"It is endless for an area that is maybe twice the size as continental United States," he says.

www.news.com.au...

I think this is a chronic human condition and to be honest......the cigarettes are an insignificant contribution to the toxins!

ya know, I grew up in a home full of alchoholics....I think I still have a few personality quarks because of it! ya know, won't stand up in a confrontation because of fear of being knocked around and such. the idea that my boss should kick us out of our little room way down in the basement where no one ventures, and make us go stand...that's right I said stand!!! never mind that the fact that prior bosses' inability or unwillingness to get all their employees to do their job has affected my ability to stand---there isn't anyplace TO SIT outside, outside of the cold wet pavement!! well....I think the whole thing is just rediculous....ya, we should all stand out in the rain...so some drunken idiots can drive themselves to the smoke free bar to get drunk and kill their liver!! and then probably run some poor person over and leave them in a ditch to die!

unless you are willing to park your car and start walking...YOU GET OVER IT!

Originally posted by dawnstar



extra space= small area in the basement where no one has any reason to venture!!!
extra time=???? from my experiences in the workplace....weather or not the slackers are smokers is irrelevant! I watch one guy at work walk past me about 7 times every day, either walking to the water fountain to fill his water bottle up, or to the bathroom- I swing by the coke machine in the morning before work starts to get a bottle of pepsi, and it just about lasts the day!!
and, well, there's about ten or so of them that gather everyday for about 15 minutes twice a day.....to decide what they want to order for breakfast...and then lunch....I don't order either, but often find myself picking up the slack for those who do! then there's the chronic slackers who are working harder to avoid the work than they would be if they would just do the work....the "I just want to do the easy parts of the jobs, here, you take the rest". they're always a load of fun! Their idea that I should be working hard, so they don't have to has already costs me the enjoyment of taking a walk out in the open air, or thru a mall, a nice hike through the mountains that I would just love to go up and enjoy!!!
and, well, as far as us infecting your atmosphere with toxic chemicals......

Give yourself a medal for being a good worker...wow.....so you compare slack workers in your workplace to smokers argueing for space and time to continue their habitual drug use.....i can see your argument.....two slackers(wrongs) don't make a right.

is a vast area of plastic debris and other flotsam drifting in the northern Pacific Ocean, held there by swirling ocean currents.

Discovered in 1997 by American sailor Charles Moore, what is also called the great Pacific garbage patch is now alarming some with its ever-growing size and possible impact on human health.

The "patch" is in fact two huge, linked areas of circulating rubbish, says Dr Marcus Eriksen, research director of the US-based Algalita Marine Research Foundation, founded by Moore.

Although the boundaries change, it stretches from about 500 nautical miles off the coast of California, across the northern Pacific to near the coast of Japan.

The islands of Hawaii are placed almost in the middle, so piles of plastic regularly wash up on some beaches there.

"The original idea that people had was that it was an island of plastic garbage that you could almost walk on. It is not quite like that. It is almost like a plastic soup," Dr Eriksen says.

"It is endless for an area that is maybe twice the size as continental United States," he says.

www.news.com.au...

I think this is a chronic human condition and to be honest......the cigarettes are an insignificant contribution to the toxins!

Awesome logic, please stay with the topic....which i think was Smokers crying about having their rights violated.

ya know, I grew up in a home full of alchoholics....I think I still have a few personality quarks because of it! ya know, won't stand up in a confrontation because of fear of being knocked around and such.

This is a serious statement about your personnel life that i can saddly relate to a great deal. I will not discuss this here on the thread but if you would lke to U2U me on this topic i would be only to happy to chat with you about this.......but it has nothing to do with the thread and only adds an emotive and highly personnel element to this discussion.

the idea that my boss should kick us out of our little room way down in the basement where no one ventures, and make us go stand...that's right I said stand!!! never mind that the fact that prior bosses' inability or unwillingness to get all their employees to do their job has affected my ability to stand---there isn't anyplace TO SIT outside, outside of the cold wet pavement!!

This is a consequence of your habit....so quit smoking.

well....I think the whole thing is just rediculous....ya, we should all stand out in the rain...so some drunken idiots can drive themselves to the smoke free bar to get drunk and kill their liver!! and then probably run some poor person over and leave them in a ditch to die!

Again you use another extreme example of other bad behaviour to somehow justify yourself and smoking. You have no arguement.

unless you are willing to park your car and start walking...YOU GET OVER IT!

I don't drive, i cycle to work. Its 18km to the CBD from my house. Rain, hail, or shine. 5 days a week, all year...if you want proof, send me a U2U and i'll explain to you how and why i do.

This is stupid.
If your addiction gets you in trouble then it's YOUR problem. There are no rights violated by not letting you smoke in public places.

Edit:
Seriously. Stop mentioning alcohol and other stuff that you use to justify smoking.
Smoking should be illegal. Too addictive for some..

[edit on 13-3-2008 by Blue10110]

Ahem....

Originally posted by mattifikation
The fact stands that non-smokers shouldn't have to pay, in any way shape or form, for the habits of smokers. Neither in the form of physical health, nor in the form of buying you special little forts so you can give yourselves cancer in comfort.

....It's sad that we live in a world where more than this needs to be said on this whole subject.

There are no rights violated by not letting you smoke in public places.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
my boss smokes.....it's his property, his money to spend, not public property, not public money.....what in the world makes you think that you have any right to say weather or not he can smoke on his property, or allow his employees to?
what justification do you claim to have to assert this right over his? like I said, the little room is way downstairs in the basement.....no one has any job related reason to go there. any special breaks that might be taken are no more outrageous that all those special breaks that are happening to order lunch, to order breakfast, to get those 5 or 6 phone calls in a days time, to wander around chatting with your friends, to sneak off and play on one of the computers, and the list goes on and on.
any smoke that might actually manage to filter all the way upstairs will be far less toxic that the chemicals we work with..(and by the way, the basement is also under the parking lot.....if the roof ever caves in, a few cars are going to be smoking in our breakroom!!) and finally......you don't even work there!! you probably don't even live in the same city, or the same state.....

Originally posted by dawnstar
There are no rights violated by not letting you smoke in public places.
-------------------------------------------------------------------
my boss smokes.....it's his property, his money to spend, not public property, not public money.....what in the world makes you think that you have any right to say weather or not he can smoke on his property, or allow his employees to?
what justification do you claim to have to assert this right over his? like I said, the little room is way downstairs in the basement.....no one has any job related reason to go there. any special breaks that might be taken are no more outrageous that all those special breaks that are happening to order lunch, to order breakfast, to get those 5 or 6 phone calls in a days time, to wander around chatting with your friends, to sneak off and play on one of the computers, and the list goes on and on.
any smoke that might actually manage to filter all the way upstairs will be far less toxic that the chemicals we work with..(and by the way, the basement is also under the parking lot.....if the roof ever caves in, a few cars are going to be smoking in our breakroom!!) and finally......you don't even work there!! you probably don't even live in the same city, or the same state.....

You make about as much sense as smoking does.


I suggest you re-read Mattifikation previous thread.

Originally posted by mattifikation
The fact stands that non-smokers shouldn't have to pay, in any way shape or form, for the habits of smokers. Neither in the form of physical health, nor in the form of buying you special little forts so you can give yourselves cancer in comfort.

I make more sense than a bunch of anti-smokers whining for the government to remove that little smoking room from the company I work for.....who they don't work for....because......they are afraid of the smoke!!
heck if they're so concerned about their health, they should never even venture into the shop!!
and here's another good insanity....they wanted to kick the smokers of kodak in rochester out into the cold!! kodak has had little smoking areas throughout the plant for a long time, and that is the only place you can smoke, you can't even smoke outside....since well.....there's so many different chemicals around they are afraid someone would throw their cigarette butt the wrong direction and blow rochester up!! ya, the danger of that smoke is far more worse than the danger of blowing a danged city up!!!

kodak was the first place to get an exemption from the stupid smoking ban in NY!! and they will probably be one of the few places that will get to keep the exemption forever!!
there are many things that are more dangerous than that little bit of smoke coming from the end of a cigarette....kicking smokers out into the cold, in some cases is one!!

by the way, if you live near that plant, your kids have a far greater chance of developing brain tumors, and your have a far greater chance of developing pancreatic cancer.... that's just living by the place, the dangers to the employees are far greater....if NY really wanted to protect the employees at the plant, they would protect them, and their neighbors from these chemicals!

oh, and your self righteous indignation is just as crazy.....if you've ever used the film kodak makes, well, you've played your part in those children's brain tumors. if you've ever went heavy on your perfume before heading to school or work, you've played your part in some cancers....if you've ever sent a plastic can or bottle into the trash can instead of recycling it, you've played your part in that nice plastic pond that is twice the size of the US!!! if you've ever went to the beauty saloon to have your hair dyed, you've probably damaged the health of those in there!! and well....if you've ever used pinesol in any building that I've had to go into....you've played your part in laying me up for up to a week....me and alot of other people probably, because most asthmatics will react to the stuff! so, while you are griping at me about that little bit of smoke possibly making you sick decades down the road.....I'm sitting here wondering....was it you who sent my nephew to the hospital that last time?

Don't forget drycleaning,very toxic chems that many lowlife dry cleaners run out into the sewers.
I smoke and proud to say so.Like every thing in moderation.
Again i have to say the last person at a camp fire to move out of the smoke is the one complaning the most.They don't leave the fire but continue to complain.
If your appalled by my smoke i am sure you would also be apalled if i walked into your home with my shoes on,parked near your home,let my tree grow beyond your fence,let the rain from my house into your yard ,become the overriding subject at the next city council.
You are more probably held up as a civic leader but secretly distained as a back stabbing sellout by anyone other than the chosen few that are the loveless social wannabes that are soon to die out.Only because they can't feed themselves without the Cum and Go.

Simply put, would you want to be told to go outside in the rain because someone wanted to smoke? No, I didn't think so. It is a common courtesy that is not extended. The fact that your laws violate others livelihood and property seems to not matter to you.

One could make the statisical arguement that national and global economy has tanked and continues to tank every since these anti-smoking laws were enacted.

And finally, suppose someone told you to shut the hell up everytime you tried to speak and forced you to go outside to say anything? You might say they are only words, but if someone didn't like it or your words offended them would you be as compliant as to shut up or walk outside? What if it was causing their blood pressure to rise or they were so angry with you that it would cause a heart attack or stroke?

Removing the freedoms of some is removing the freedoms of all. It might not personally make a difference to you on smoking. But empowering others to make choices for others means some other vice that is unhealthy will be next. Substitute kissing your significant other for talking in the above example. Religious? Then saying grace before a meal. proud of your heritage? Substitute that instead. It is all the same thing and if can't see that then here is a little quote in context from Escape from LA:

Snake Plissken: Got a smoke?
Malloy: The United States is a non-smoking nation! No smoking, no drugs, no alcohol, no women - unless you're married - no foul language, no red meat!
Snake Plissken: Land of the free.

Is that how you would like things to become? Because we are heading in that direction. it is only a matter of time. And notice that the thread is not about blowing smoke in your face, kicking you repeatedly or overturning the dumbass law---it is about providing basic comfort and shelter from the elements as a fair exchange of being kicked out of indoors so you can have freedom from what annoys you.

Personally I would rather like to open a bar, pool hall or bowling alley that allows smokers and anyone that complains would be removed from the building and pay my taxes to an escrow account until the state writes a waiver allowing me to run my business as I see fit. I would file them correctly and include notice that payment was placed in escrow until such time as the state was willing to conceed that it acted in violation of the rights of the individual owner and drafts a waiver. Also in the notice would be a reminder that anything not proplerly claimed in seven years would revert back to me as an undisputed claim including intrest gained as a legally tax exempted income.





[edit on 15-3-2008 by Ahabstar]

Yeah, because not being allowed to talk and not being allowed to poison other people are the same thing.

I'm done trying to argue against this mindless logic, because it really doesn't matter. People with common sense have spoken: If you want to do that crap, don't do it in enclosed places with people who don't want to be exposed to it.

That's the law you've got, that's the law you're stuck with, if you don't like smoking outside you can still go smoke in your car. :-)

For the record, next time I see a group of people smoking, I think I'm going to walk by them and let loose the most obnoxious fart I can muster. After all, I have the right to fart and if I don't fart, it'll make me uncomfortable. So by selfish smoker logic, nobody is right to make me not fart in their faces.

Most work places will only let you use the carunless you leave, and you can't just sit in the car. Some here even have smoke free parkinglots.(in N.D. of all places),

Snake Plissken, i was thinking to google the last name just yesterday.Wondered how it was spelled.

Did he smoke Marlboro or am i wrong?

New movie idea(Escape from politically correctville,The other Gotham)

Over here in Aus they are enforcing on the spot fines for smoking 5 metres from a building and have prohibited smoking in most bars.

I am not a smoker or drinker never have and never want to be. I think the problem is that many people use the "I have a right to smoke" excuse for a scapegoat reason to stop themselves from realising that they should give it up.

I mean really people lets just say smoking was healthy and was no harm to you, do you still think you would feel ok sucking up smoke into your system? From what I remember firefighters say get down when a house in on fire not stand up and suck it in. In effect thats what smokers are doing.

It prolongs the inevitable and changes nothing all it does change is how long you live for thats it. We pour millions into advertising for anti-smoking here in Aus as I am sure many countries do and the people still continue. So I say bring more restrictions against smoking in public areas its only being done for the smokers good, and if the smoker stopped in the first place guess what, no restrictions.

The smoker has caused the problem not the cigarette companies, the smoker made the choice to buy them and use them, no one made them do it. If you want to fix the problem stop smoking its that simple there are support lines that can help you out and many people have stopped smoking here in Aus and its so good to see.

Stop looking at someone to blame because the hard fact is you caused it and you have to deal with the consequences. If I said engine oil was good for you would you drink it no way, so what is the difference between oil and cigarettes, they are both toxic to your body so the difference (besides the chemical and what they are used for) is none. Its not cool to smoke or drink how cool is it when your in hospital suffering from an irreversible disease not so cool now is it huh.

Originally posted by Ahabstar


One could make the statisical arguement that national and global economy has tanked and continues to tank every since these anti-smoking laws were enacted.

Ok. Can you make that argument for me. Perhaps the sub-prime market collapsed due to all the foreclosures on smoking rooms around the USA. Now i know why you smoke......perhaps its your amazing intellect.

Removing the freedoms of some is removing the freedoms of all. It might not personally make a difference to you on smoking. But empowering others to make choices for others means some other vice that is unhealthy will be next. Substitute kissing your significant other for talking in the above example. Religious? Then saying grace before a meal. proud of your heritage? Substitute that instead. It is all the same thing and if can't see that then here is a little quote in context from Escape from LA:

So using your line of thought: smoking kills lots of people who smoke, has the potential to cause disease and death to innocent people that don't smoke and it also cost Millions in health care and other costly social impacts related to smokers behaviour etc...... but guess what, so does gun crime.....so lets not take away the rights of people who kill others with guns because we don't where we could end up next.

Personally I would rather like to open a bar, pool hall or bowling alley that allows smokers ......

They have these already, they are called hospital wards.

You want freedom.... Quit smoking. You are slaves to your habit, puppets of the corporate "MAN". Your cravings and the stupidity of satisfying them have left you outcasts of your own cause. The sensible have long woken up to the BS of "BIG TOBACCO" and its time you did to. We know smoking kills, we know it causes disease regardless of wether you smoke intentionally or passively, we know it reduces your ability to enjoy a healthy life. We know its addictive. And now a lot of us know we don't want it in our society.....this is not about depriving rights, its about stamping out stupidity. Smoke that.

reply to post by dawnstar


The people are not to blame for your nephew being in hospital the cheap companies with billions of dollars and who couldn't give two damns about you are the ones to blame. The government who puts your family and others in irreversible debt and credit debt that goes a mile long are to blame.

If the companies spent time and resources developing products that are safe and non toxic we wouldn't have all these health problems, but the billionaires are so fixated on finding shortcuts that money takes priority over you. Its all money to them, health means nothing look at history and agent orange or the shells that are being used in Iraq that are uranium tipped shells.

This causes countless disease and health problems and they still keep using them, stuff the troops they are replacable thats the logic the government goes on. They care about no one except how fat their wallets are. The government and greed for money by millionaires and megalomaniacs are the cause of your nephews problems, not the next door neighbor.