Proof? Who cares right?

Well....
I guess i am a very small person, because my first reaction would be "YES i was right!"

And then when they left i would be like "Darn, i had so many questions!"

Perhaps that is why they would leave, we never stop talking...

reply to post by Cuhail


I had responded, 3 paragraphs worth, and it was cherry. I hit enter and poof ATS farted my responce right out the window. Oh well, sometimes things were not meant to be. I'm not going to respond again, but maybe I'll just through out the gist.

I know how trustworthy you are. You should not take my "YOU" as a personal attack. My point is that for most people "YOU" are someone outside "ME". My "YOU" is your "me" and only your "me" knows how trustworthy you can be. Sometimes that's not even the case.

You don't know the "Me" that is your "YOU" so you don't know you can trust "me". I tell the truth outright. For this I can not be trusted because the truth as I know it is byond scope of reality to all of "YOU" at this time.

Well there you have it. It was much better the first time. But that is the gist.

reply to post by WitnessFromAfar


Your responce is quite intresting. It shows the cundrum that is understanding. However I'm about to point out several flaws.

First "this field"? What is that? I really don't understand that. I am only assuming you mean "field" as in "work field", and to me this isn't a "field" I work in, and anyone that would "work" in this "field" requires an extra red flag on their judgement account.

You all seem to have a flaw in the ability to "trust" others. I do not. You all have made some bad judgements about people in your pasts that have left you parranoid of others, but you refuse to see the bad judgements of other people are your own fault. Maybe your a girl and you wanted to be loved so badly by a "white knight" that you were suckered. How is that the leach guys' fault? He's a leach. You're the one that believed the LIE. You believed the lie because YOU WANTED TO BELIEVE THE LIE. The bad Judgement was your fault not anothers.

This is part of the personalize bias syndrom I speak of. You have to rid yourself of such things to see clearly.

I'd love to hear your story. I believe everyone has something they wish to share, there are a handful that wish to manipulate others for their own benift, but the large majority truly believe what they are saying. Some minds are so clean and clear their words can be taken verbatum. Some are so confused you reality what they are telling you don't exist in the "phyical reality" we all share. However even they, the "confused" have something to tell you if you know what consciousness level they're speaking on even if they don't.

I go case by case. I don't group. You can't group. YOU all are indiviauals.

It's my "job" personalize goal, to reason through enough input to get a more clear picture of the REALITY behind the phenomenon. I do this for MY personal understanding of the events not to be published. I like to spit it when I can, but this is just because I AM RIGHT.

reply to post by Incarnated


That sucks. I hate it when my computer takes my writing and chucks it. It happens.
I didn't take anything you wrote personally. In fact, my original post was refering to chromatico and his useless post. I was trying to expand MY post to include something other that "Don't be a waste of bandwidth".

S'all good.

Cuhail

Originally posted by WitnessFromAfar
Even if I should disclose my personal history, as those 400+ witnesses have done, it doesn't 'prove' my theory, it only adds credence for those who choose to 'believe' me.

This harkens back to the very origin of the confusion of mankind, another topic misunderstood as real by humanity. Hey, if you don't understand my understanding of the ephoical eaons of humanity, or if you refuse to understand it, you best close down the thread now.

Long time ago in a Galaxy right here. There was a being that starte a negitive ripple through the unity of the ONEness of the brotherhood of all things. This small band of deulted rebels claimed "self assertion" as a battel cry, but anyone with an ounce of inteligence knew it was a lie. The Origin of the rebelion of understanding was that beings back up the deluted visions of a lesser being. That's not self assertion, that's following and personalize manipulazation.

Needless as that all maybe it happened and we here and now have to deal with the repocusions of that very small wave of illuionary vision. This is the origins of the disconnection of YOU with your brotherhood of humanity and YOU with the brotherhood of all.

It is up to YOU to find someone to trust or overwrite that misunderstanding to see through the phyical illusion of this disconnected world.

I'm not disconnected like most people. I judge people for what they are within, I have a intense system of judgement and I'll smell you a mile a way if you try to pull the wool over my eyes as trying to disguise yourself as a sheep.

Please keep in mind I'm not addressing "you" the responce of this poster rather the "YOU" in general

It's a sick game conscious understandings. There are those that wish to manipulate others for their own ill goten gain. The majority of people however are good and pure. They are confused and somewhat lost. They follow the monkey see monkey do additudes of do unto others before they do unto you rather then the golden rule of do unto others as you'd have done to you. That's a tragic result of the events that set this whole drama off, and it's credit to your personality to overcome this as most do in time.

Does one bad apple spoil the bunch or does seeing a festering rot on an apple just assoicate within your mind thoughts of sickness that taint the rest of the barrel?

Depends upon how hungry you are.

It is my "job" to search out the truths within the illusion of lies so that the "TRUE" forces that be (off world force) can know the gague by which reality can be judged.

Sure some rot juice might have dripped down across the apples in the barrel but many apples are perfect for eating if you just wash off the rot, still others are just with weakened spots and great for making APPLE PIES!

If you want to know the truth for the sake of truth it is out there you just need learn the gage of the filer system. You can see through others after you've worked through your own.

Did you miss this? Apples artisticly have taken on the the fruit eaten in the garden from the "tree of knowledge of good and evil" If the tree is the knowledge of Good and Evil, and you put all the fruit into a barrel:

I'll ask again, does a few bad apples spoil the barrel?

Originally posted by Incarnated
reply to post by WitnessFromAfar

 

Your responce is quite intresting. It shows the cundrum that is understanding. However I'm about to point out several flaws.

Um, okay cool! (WFA gets ready for the presentation of some 'proof', since that was what we were talking about, right?)

Originally posted by Incarnated
First "this field"? What is that? I really don't understand that. I am only assuming you mean "field" as in "work field", and to me this isn't a "field" I work in, and anyone that would "work" in this "field" requires an extra red flag on their judgement account.

Well, by 'this field', I do mean this particular branch of research. I believe that we are all 'working' here at ATS to uncover the truth about UFOs in this forum, am I mistaken in that belief? Granted, none of us are being paid for it, but it's work none the less, at least what I do here is work. I just consider it 'pro bono' (work without pay) because I feel it's that important.

Originally posted by Incarnated
You all seem to have a flaw in the ability to "trust" others. I do not. You all have made some bad judgements about people in your pasts that have left you parranoid of others, but you refuse to see the bad judgements of other people are your own fault. Maybe your a girl and you wanted to be loved so badly by a "white knight" that you were suckered. How is that the leach guys' fault? He's a leach. You're the one that believed the LIE. You believed the lie because YOU WANTED TO BELIEVE THE LIE. The bad Judgement was your fault not anothers.

I'm not sure how to respond to this Incarnated. I'm a very trusting person, and I have many close personal friends and a life partner, all of whom I trust with my life.

I'm not a girl (didn't take offense, just stating for the record), and I'm not in the habit of wanting to believe lies. In fact, evidence is the only determining factor we have as to what is a 'lie' and what isn't.

Take for example your relationship scenario above. You state 'He's a leach.' I gather that in this example your refering to a 'known' leach, and that the girl is going against the evidence that this guy is a leach in order to believe the lie that he's a 'white knight'.

So you see what I mean about the evidence? It's critical, and it's the determining factor. Even in the (ficticious I'm assuming) relationship example, it was her fault for ignoring the evidence that this guy was a leach. I think that maybe 'believing the lie' (your words) and 'ignoring the evidence' (my words) are really the same concept, just stated from different viewpoints. Does that sound right?

Originally posted by Incarnated
This is part of the personalize bias syndrom I speak of. You have to rid yourself of such things to see clearly.

As stated in my above post, I believe that Evidence, solid real physical evidence, will elliminate this 'bias' worldwide instantly. Arguments and personal testimony have failed to accomplish this for humanity as a whole, and skeptics and proponents have been arguing about it for decades. Evidence is what is required to convince the un-convinced.
(please remember, I'm a member of the 'already convinced' side.)

Originally posted by Incarnated
I'd love to hear your story. I believe everyone has something they wish to share, there are a handful that wish to manipulate others for their own benift, but the large majority truly believe what they are saying.

I assume you are talking about ATS members here, and your own personal determining factors for whether or not you believe their story?

Originally posted by Incarnated
Some minds are so clean and clear their words can be taken verbatum. Some are so confused you reality what they are telling you don't exist in the "phyical reality" we all share. However even they, the "confused" have something to tell you if you know what consciousness level they're speaking on even if they don't.

I go case by case. I don't group. You can't group. YOU all are indiviauals.

It's my "job" personalize goal, to reason through enough input to get a more clear picture of the REALITY behind the phenomenon. I do this for MY personal understanding of the events not to be published. I like to spit it when I can, but this is just because I AM RIGHT.

I'm not sure how any of that applies to the discussion underway, except for the very last part, where you say "I AM RIGHT."

Don't get me wrong here, I really don't mean to be insulting, and I know how hard it is to tell what someone's 'tone of voice' is on a message board.

Please know that this entire post was written in a 'friendly tone', and intended to be read that way.

I'm not saying that 'YOU ARE WRONG', what I'm saying is that saying 'I AM RIGHT' just doesn't mean anything, even if you ARE right. You must prove it, or you shouldn't expect others to believe your statements. Again, I'm talking about 'proving it' to the mainstream.

This is what all of science is based on. Having a hypothesis is fine, but we must gather evidence, and subject our hypothesis to that evidence if we are to have our hypothesis gain credence in the mainstream.

Sorry for the long post, but I got a bit lost during your reply, and I always like to understand what's being written, so I find it helpful to go line by line.

I really am trying to understand how it's possible to convince the mainstream without evidence, but I don't think it is possible. Also, I'm not sure that it would be healthy for society as a whole to 'believe' without evidence, based upon the testimony of others.

I for one don't want to have my 'story' believed, I'd much rather find and present evidence, so that the debate that follows the presentation of that evidence will focus on the evidence and not only consist of character assasination.

Thoughts?

-WFA

p.s. It DOES suck when your posts get lost in the system! I hate that. I always use notepad now and copy/paste.

reply to post by WitnessFromAfar


I understand the Fact that "I am right" doesn't mean anything outside myself, however in context I state I'm here to find out the finer aspects of the reality for myself.

I KNOW "hard evidnce" solid "proof" exists and IT DOESN'T PROVE anything because there's always going to be a know nothing know it all that will argue with you on the evidence.

I KNOW that "hard evidence" is a LIE people tell to themselves.

If a UFO came down out of the sky and aliens jumpped out doing the mackareina or what ever popular line dance they could manage only to be beamed up by a passing ufo leaving another UFO right there on the Whitehouse lawn with press and news crews clicking away, some ass would walk up and say it was a Governmental consparicy.

Im probably repeating myself a bit here but its been a while and I didn't really feel this thread got much attention considering it’s quite an important issue that I've rarely seen touched upon, the more i think about it the more i see why the ufo subject becomes so tiresome to people after a while the same as many other fringe subjects, basically even if some of this stuff was real if it doesn't have any outcome or affect it really doesn't matter as such, sure the various storeys and videos claiming to show stuff can be interesting and are a bit of entertainment but isn't that’s all it really amounts to?

That's why proof seems and is in many ways such a big deal but then the proof itself isn't the best part when you think about it, its what you could get from it (if anything) that really matters and this is why I wonder why so many debate in such great depth stuff that is based on weak evidence and hearsay.

Yet even after saying all this I believe life exists in the universe and even believe it possible some of it has visited!

For me it would be mainly about answering the questions. The new technology would be great (not for weapns but for fuel, food, entertainment purposes - wouldn't it be great to travel the galaxy? ).

Also, it would most probably unite everyone on Earth (accept the religious who would see them as devils etc)

[edit on 21-4-2008 by dodgygeeza]

reply to post by just theory

That's why proof seems and is in many ways such a big deal but then the proof itself isn't the best part when you think about it, its what you could get from it (if anything)

It would really depends on what the facts turn out to be. For instance:

A) The truth is revealed that the US military did indeed recover a crashed alien ship. Attempts to reverse engineer it have led to breakthroughs which will now be made available for civilian use or further study. In this instance we gain technology, something "material," which our society could find useful.

B) The truth is revealed that we have been visited by some other intelligence, but details remain a mystery due to their superiority. In this case, we don't gain physical technology.

However, both options listed will cause human society to undergo a cultural psychological shift. Such a shift could serve as a catalyst for a radical transformation of gov't entities, politics, educational systems/institutions, and much more.

So to answer your question... we would get "something," although it might not be a physical technology.

Originally posted by Scramjet76
reply to post by just theory

 

That's why proof seems and is in many ways such a big deal but then the proof itself isn't the best part when you think about it, its what you could get from it (if anything)

It would really depends on what the facts turn out to be.

Or what if the facts are that we are essentially nothing more than ignorant pets for a super-intelligent, multi-dimensional group of creatures that we can barely comprehend, much less defend ourselves against, and we only have another 5 years or so before they implant the hideous brain worms in a few of us and slaughter the rest. I'm not quite sure what we'd gain from that.

reply to post by Nohup


Hehe... well that would be bad news. But we are always one three mile wide comet, one hypernova, one CERN experiment gone horribly wrong, etc away from the end. If extra dimensional beings decide to pull the plug on our virtual universe in a few years then I wouldn't worry too much. At least you'll know you weren't even "real" anyways.

Interesting post here, thought I would share my view. It is difficult for me to remember what it is like to need proof as I have had several sightings in my life, the most recent one being on my birthday of last year and discussed on this site. I guess I always determine truths based on what makes the most sense. Are over 10,000 eyewitnessess crazy or wrong? Or have these people who are actually filing these reports seen something in the sky that they have never seen before? Is there definitive proof there? No, but there is the assurance that something is happening. I am saying that these are aliens? Absolutely not! They could be... then again they could be anything. All I know is that silver discs do exist.....who or what if anything is in them is beyond me. For all I know they could be living organisms in and of themselves. I have only so far as to know they exist, what their origin is has yet to be determined in my mind. Hope my view gives you another perspective to bounce around. Great post