Stockpiling Fuel; Moot Point?

Is there really a point stockpiling fuel on an out of town location such as a ranch or acreage? Not only would it be expensive, it would run out eventually, but it would wean you off dependence instead of cold turkey.

Plus wouldn't the sound of generators, and the sight of lights on signal someones home to potential looters, scavengers etc.? IMO it might put you in more danger than yo would ever benefit.

I only bring this up because I cannot count how many times in the forum I had people list fuel on the list of things they are/going to stock up on.

It kind of all depends, again, on what your ultimate goal is. If you want to continue to run a lot of electrical appliances or tractors or HD televisions or jacuzzis or whatever, then stockpiling a lot of fuel would be a good idea. But it will eventually run out. If you just want to get the hell out of harm's way, then it would be best for you to start out with your electricity needs very small, and use horses and raise cattle, goats, chickens. Get rid of your computer and television and all that other technological stuff that is both a comfort and a burden.

If you absolutely must have a generator running, get one that will run on natural gas, wind power, ethanol you can make yourself, etc., if you don't want to completely pull yourself off the sugary sweet teat of technological society.

[edit on 5-3-2008 by Nohup]

I agree, thats why I started this thread, a lot of people have talked about stockpiling fuel and I wondered if there are any good reasons two, even if its just a couple of big jerry cans?

Originally posted by Tenebrous
I agree, thats why I started this thread, a lot of people have talked about stockpiling fuel and I wondered if there are any good reasons two, even if its just a couple of big jerry cans?

If you were really going to do it, you'd need to make it worth your while. Not just a couple of cans. That would mean sinking a good sized storage tank into the ground with a hidden pump access. Something with a good lining to avoid leaks.



I would go for maybe 5,000 gallons. Something big enough to do some good, but still small enough to place and manage yourself and go undetected. Just my opinion.

If your talking about gasoline it spoils in about a year. Ask anyone thats cleaned the jelly out of a carb float bowl.

It also comes in summer and winter versions so what you get at the station is for the time of year. I think diesel is just an oil of sorts. you could look into that.

I'm not worried, its not in my idea, but i concept of stockpiling fuel has been mentioned a few times, and it has led me to wonder if a large stockpile has some short term benefits that would help long term survival or not?

Originally posted by Illahee
If your talking about gasoline it spoils in about a year. Ask anyone thats cleaned the jelly out of a carb float bowl.

It also comes in summer and winter versions so what you get at the station is for the time of year. I think diesel is just an oil of sorts. you could look into that.

Another good reason to look into renewable fuels like ethanol, natural gas, or biodiesel. Something you can cook up yourself and can run a truck or a tractor with.

Another very good thing to look into if you can are micro-hydro generators. Small electrical generators designed to work in smaller streams and rivers without the need to build huge dams. Would definitely help keep security systems and communications (incl. Internet) up and running. Maybe a low-load electrical fence.

www.absak.com...

just be very very careful.
here's article that might help us not to panic. me? i just filled my tank yesterday and bought 50 lbs of twinkies.



[edit on 5-3-2008 by beastamerica]

[edit on 5-3-2008 by beastamerica]

Gasoline actually works really bad as an explosive. It creates fireballs, but in terms of impact and shockwaves, and the other thing that really makes an explosion an effective weapon, its lacks it all it. It makes the most impressive fireballs tho...

If you feel the need to stockpile gasoline or diesel fuel, there are stabilizers available that can be added to prolong their shelf life.



[edit on 3/5/08 by LLoyd45]

Do yourself a favour - Walk outside your front door, what do you see?

Yes, it's a street, and yes most likely (if you live in the u.k) the streetlamps are on, but take a look at those things on the curb - yep, i'm talking about those lovely things we like to call cars.

The interesting thing to note is that just because the fuel is in the car, doesn't mean that it is going to be used for immediate combustion.

Now, ask yourself this, is it really worth stockpiling fuel when there is something like 80% of families who own one car, and say about half that which own more than one?

As a side note, there are several factors to consider when looking into fuel storage - most notable is whether or not you have a contaminated fuel source; that stuff will probably end up making your general combustion engine (which is pretty much standard on every vehicle known to man) explode if you use too much of it.

Oh, and if you put contaminated fuel in your tank, don't put any other fuel in it, because that'll just mean you've got more contaminated fuel.

And then of course there is the transition between liquid and gas - It's already been mentioned that a decent sized tank will probably last about a year, but i feel it needs to be mentioned that although it may seem like it is lasting that long - crack it open half-way through the year and you'll find that your full-tank is now probably about quarter of what it was.

Let me put things in simple terms;

Fuel is a Commodity, if you absolutely have to get somewhere fast, i suggest either;

A: Find a lake and build a raft.

B: Make wind-powered transportation.

or

C: Buy a bicycle.

I know this is incredibly far fetched (a little to mad max for me) but could fuel become a good commodity to have for trade?

A water bottle full could buy you a couple of chickens or something like that?

Would stockpiling fuel ever become useful for this reason?

I think this would be much more practical then stockpiling gold, but I could be wrong.

How about stockpiling coal as a fuel cache to run a steam powered DC generator? The stuff would last indefinately and not require any special storage unlike volatiles

first off as said what is your ultimate goal/reason?

just trying to save a buck at the pumps?

for just a couple week supply some big gas cans are fine remember safety. out in a garage or shed is best. this would get u through a couple weeks to get past a "emergency crises" temporary raise in price. remember to use gas stabilizer or cycle through it (how long would you keep that up:lol. not only that think of how much your car alone will take i know i would need 8 25 liter cans for my drive to work each week for two weeks and a bit extra. and last time i syphoned 1 can that size into my tank it took about half an hour.

any pump has to be generaly air or hand powered and it as well as hoses and fittings must be able to stand up to long term fuel exposier, and MUST be stored in a well ventalated area preferably separated from a dwelling. generaly speaking kept still in a cool enviroment gas is prety stable, in fact we used to toss matches into pails of gas that had been sitting in a cool shop. they would just hiss out for the most part unless someone kicked the bucket. (don't do this things could go very wrong). as it is i have a tendancy to smoke while putting in a can of gas. unfortunatly gasoline gives of vapours and fumes that can be dangerous to continuasly breath.and can cause possible brain damage after extended periods of exposier.it is also a pain to clean it damages most things paint, floors (even cement and especialy pavement),ect.

diesle is a bit differant, if anyone has a oil heater chances are its fuel oil will run a diesle car but apparently that red dye they put in aint so hot for engines. so many homes may even have an old sound tank from a heating system ( not a good place for gasoline however), that has been changed over to another service.

from that you can just imagine what a pain a lager setup would be, sure you could truck a larger load of fuel in (delivery fees apply), or lugging cans back and forth (don't be surpried to see atf and fbi show up at your doorstep if you don't have a chemicle storage permit).

and you know what? the finantual gain wouldn't be worth the hastle in the end. cause just think you will almost assuradly pay a much higher price every time you refill it.

I don't think it is bad idea to stockpile some fuel for future usage, as we all know the price will always go up, making it somewhat of a worthwhile commodity.... depending on intended usage of course. If it does go all Mad Max style, 100 gallons of gas may power a few cars for a small while, maybe run a generator used to power your peripheral creature comforts for some weeks or months, outside that.. months or years into a SHTF scenario it is pretty much useless for nothing more than an expensive firestarter. Even with additives and steps taken to prolong it's usability, octane levels degrade, and it would most likely not run in any modern computer-controlled POV unless it was diesel-fueled.

Originally posted by citizen smith
How about stockpiling coal as a fuel cache to run a steam powered DC generator? The stuff would last indefinately and not require any special storage unlike volatiles

Interesting thought, good idea. I'm glad to see a voice of reason here, and what you are saying made me think.

Look at it like this, hypothetically speaking:

Frap hits the Can, and once the electricity that is powering the gas pumps is gone... what happens? Thousands of gallons of fuel sit in gas station tanks worldwide, no fuels to keep the transportation/ trucking/ food delivery infrastructure in order and the personal stockpiles are going for top dollar... but how long will that last once it gets that far?

A can of oil in the hand is worth two to the bush....

Seriously, methinks in short-terms it would be a logical idea, but in the long haul it will come down to using the natural (easily obtainable) resources, like wood and coal if you can get it. If you can get that, and get it burning hot... steam.... hmmmm.. and that little bit of petrol can go along way to get the fires a burnin' and add some comfort depending how you look at it.

Renewables like hydro, solar and wind may not be feasible in your area... depending on the natural resources but it would be worth thinking about.


Combustibles+Fire+water= steam. It may be old school, but it works. Water+electricity= hydrogen, with a little more help from the friends.
Either way, be safe...


I second, what is your goal and reasoning? Working together we may achieve betterment, and end the stranglehold dependence on fossil fuels that we have come to realize.


Think simple, think different,
T-

reply to post by telemetry


We're considering 'fuel' in its literal sense...and so will every other person who sees the storm coming. We should be thinking along lateral lines of 'stockpiling energy' whether it be gasoline/diesel, wood, coal, etc.

How about a stockpile of 12v car-batteries (plus additional supplies of deionized water and sulphuric acid)?

As long as you have a basic means of recharging them (wind/hydro/solar pv) , you'll have enough for all essential electrical needs

reply to post by citizen smith


Well, I was throwing the question of intended usage goals and reasoning to OP (sorry if I went off on a nonsensical tangent in my post) but lateral thinking is good.

Recently heard that oil hit $105 a barrel earlier this morning, and it's only going to keep going up.. which means less product for the money as time goes on.

Now would be a good time to fill up the tanks in the cars methinks.


regards,
T-

The OP is referring to a Sit X, that is a survivalist situation. I meant referring to stockpiling for that kind of situation. I like that coal idea , much quieter and subtle to...just steam and smoke...

My 81 toyota diesel gets about 35 mpg...

I keep 20 gallons of B100 biodiesel at home in 5 gallon jerry cans and 10 gallons in the tank on rotation....


when and if...



I can move 1000 miles from my location without need to refuel or stop.


Sri Oracle

Along with everyone else who has the same idea, of course.

You aren't going to be able to make a run for it in your typical road-based vehicle, to be sure.

In a SitX scenario, i assert that fuel in it's most accepted form is nothing more than a hinderence.

Not only is it difficult to keep, but you also have to be willing to abandon your entire fuel reserve at a moment's notice, potentially making it so that the massive stockpile of fuel is nothing more than a waste of time.

And then, of course - if you have a stockpile that is too large to transport in a versatile and agile vehicle, you have to deal with the problem that you aren't going to be going anywhere fast.

Even if you do find a way to transport it, like for example by finding a LPG tank and a truck to fix it to, you'll essentially be sitting not only on a magnet for raiders and other assorted SitX opportunists, but also you'll be sitting on what is essentially a massive heat-activated proximity mine.

If you have an idea on a secure location with everything you need, then stockpiling fuel wouldn't be too bad of an idea, but otherwise you need to remember one of the most important facts of surviving a SitX scenario - the ability to keep moving until you reach a secure location.