Traveling forward in time (a theory and question)

The theory of time travel could one day become a reality. For now we rely on stories and movies to show us how its supposed to be done. For instance the "Back to the Future" series. Yes yes, its JUST a movie with no real scientific facts but theres one problem I can't seem to get my head around. The one where the Doc takes him forward in time to see himself and his future.

So this is where my theoretical question and my thread really begins. In my opinion (and I am by far NO scientist) there is no way he could have done that. and I will try to explain why.




I assume time is linear and so I would be continually moving forward through it.

If I were to travel forward through time, theoretically say from March 4th 2008 to March 5th 2012, I would leave this time line and travel in another (slipstream timeline) until I reached my destination date. If that is so, then again theoretically I would disappear to all others still on the normal time line until the moment I reappear in the future. It would be impossible for me to see myself in the future because I was removed from the normal time line, into the (slipstream). My body didn't just split in two.

Does this make any sense to anyone? Like I said, I am NO scientist. Am I on the right track or am I just a crazy dumbass?

that makes perfect sense. I always did wonder how he could be in the future if in the past he left for the future

Yes I think I can see what you are saying.

That when we travel in time, the time that we bypass whilst in slipstream is permanently unavailable to us, as we are moving in a linear way and can only move between the two streams. I.e. that we cannot exist in the two places "stream" at once.

We would have to consider a splitting of ourselves that moves into a new dimension to be able to exist in more than one place "stream", but then our consciousness can only be aware of one place at a time and would have to choose which split to follow.

My head is spinning now (thats why I love all this time travel stuff)!

No scientist either . . .

I will go with Titor's explanation. Everything we do splits the time line. There are infinite numbers of time lines. The one where he saw himself was not his original time line, but was a time line that was half a step off from his time line.

Make sense?

The questions/thoughts I have about splitting timelines are:

Is it possible to sense when a split has occurred.

How does the consciousness (our stream of reality) choose which split to follow.

What type of event causes a split, can this be done deliberately to change things.

How could we become aware of other splits - split personality, dreaming, ghosts, ETs are these all layering of splits that we sometimes become aware of.

I'd suggest starting by reading the Wiki page on 'Time Travel'.

You seem to be stuck on viewing time as a spatial dimension, i.e. the use of the word 'travel' as in move from place to place.

This is probably the wrong model, since time, or 'space-time' is different.

For one thing, if you just went forward into the future, but didn't move, you'd 'materialize' in outer space, since the Earth is constantly moving.

Some people think in terms of closed timeline curves and worldlines. This is generally the province of mathematicians and physicists and would be highly theoretical. In addition they talk about particles and not large bodies.

It may be that in the distant future we can develop ways to 'look' into the past or the future but not 'go' there, as in a corporal body.

Or, we may be able to so completely re-create the past that for all intents and purposes, using a holo-deck, for instance, we can go there, but not 'really'.

The thing is, 'time travel' is such a fertile field for writers that we seem to think of it, and things like 'transportation beam up chambers' as 'near science fact', when in all probability it would required millions of years of technology advancements to approach such things in a real sense.

Finally, many speculate that time travel would result in a 'branching' of the time line or the worldline such that the future 'place' that one might encounter would not be the same 'place' - it would be a parallel universe that split off due to the tremendous energies required.

So it looks like the best we can do now is read science fiction and use our imaginations. Though I think it's likely that we can send particles into the future, we probably will not be able to get back 'information', or send 'information' and if we do, it will not be the world we know, but a duplicate or alternate.

HTH.

Originally posted by Badge01
For one thing, if you just went forward into the future, but didn't move, you'd 'materialize' in outer space, since the Earth is constantly moving.

Yes I completely forgot about that part. That would be really bad, all that effort and then just finding yourself floating in space - missing the target big time.

I see, that makes sense. I suppose then if you were able to stop time 1 of 2 things would probably occur.

1) you wouldn't be able to move or breathe because all matter right down to subatomic particles would be stopped as well and would be like a solid state unless you could also manipulate matter down to the subatomic particles themselves.

2) what you would see would be like looking into 2 mirrors facing (one in front of you and one behind you) each other with infinite possibilities of different time lines.....like portals or something of that nature, then theoretically you could walk through whatever course of time you choose. The only drawback of that is I doubt you would ever be able to go back to your original time line as since there are infinite time lines, finding the exact one you came from would also be infinitely impossible not to mention the one you would not know what kind of time line you would be stepping into.....could be very bad.

reply to post by QBSneak000


I think the best bet would be to develop the technology to totally capture all the events and persons, places and things in digitized form, like a holodeck or virtual world.

Right now, what we have is primitive. Online gaming worlds with avatars. Someone might digitize and input something small like Dealy Plaza and try to re-create the Kennedy assassination. But with greater storage and computing power (and of course the needed information) one could have greater and greater accuracy and a more realistic simulation. So it would be like going back into the past but, of course, not 'really'. Of course you couldn't 'change' anything in your real world, but you could run simulations. The validity of these would depend on the depth and scope of the data input.

I fear that the best we can hope for WRT time travel will only ever involve particle physics. I seriously doubt there will be a 'method' that approaches 'H.G.Wells' and his time machine and allows a real person to move back and forth (which is a misnomer right there, since 'space time' is not a spatial dimension) in time.

In fact it may not even be possible to send or receive information from the 'past' or the 'future'. We will see 'evidence' of time travel indirectly in the form of prolonged decay rates of various particles. But these particles will probably not be able to carry a signal or anything we can retrieve.

2 cents.

Only if you do not return to your own timeline. Although your idea is a good thought.

Its a good thought, but I'm wondering if time were linear it would have to have a split in its progression as to show the choices we may or may not make. Though two things come to mind as I glance over this. One. Would you really be able to travel ahead to an event that hasn't happened yet in our time line? If so then it sounds like you would more than likely slip into another time line that is further down the line. Two. Would the "You" in the future ultimately be killed off by the you that is now arriving from the past?

Going to try and keep a calm head while thinking this through.
Ultimately I think we would be restricted from traveling to the future and past. Since moving about through the "Time line" creates another time line. Do we know that this split universe will be the future? Or possible just our conceived ideas working into some futuristic way? The biggest dilemma of all is how would you know the time if time is supposidly irrelavent to some

In back to the future they were traveling in different universes. So therefor there would be 2 of you because you have exited your own universe and arrived in the future in a different universe, thus being able to see your other self.

This is in theory that multiple universes exist for every decision we didnt or did make.

When you say splitting yourself, you are not splitting yourself it is the universe that splits.

remember all in thoery!


I understand what you mean tho by your explanation,it makes perfect sense. If they were traveling to the future in the ONE single universe than it would be psychically impossible, because 2 of you cannot exist at the same time in that universe.


[edit on 4-3-2008 by gtirlad2]

God is the alpha and the omega,he's the only one that can hold the drivers license for that horse and buggy.

Why is no one citing the normal Einstein theory that when you travel close to the speed of light and return to earth that time dilation happens?

You "travel," into the future because of your proximity to the speed of light. Apparent time to you is less than what happens on a relative basis on earth. Your space flight lasts say 5 years to you, but 100 years passes on earth. Google it.

I do not see the need to complicate the transition from now to then with some slipstream HooDoo. It is merely a literary device to avoid the obvious negative outcome of real time travel.

What is the nature of this "slipstream", just a literary construct.

If you move from now to then at any unnatural rate, then you are by definition outside of "Normal" time. To the outside observer you disappear now and reappear then. Instantaneous to anyone but yourself.

However, I do not like the probable outcome this simple accelerated time suggests. You will want to do this in a vault, because the intersection of any object at that speed will have dire consequences.

So nothing must be allowed to pass through your location between now and then. Otherwise there will not be a hole in your theory, but in you.

I would like to posit a few things about this. Read on then flame on if you so feel inclined.

A few things about "Time"

Statement: Time isn't 'real'.
Time as shown as being the '4th' dimension is NOT a form of reality, it is only an aspect in a mathematical equation. Something to make it balance. String theory has many more dimensions (depends on which version of it you read/subscribe too.) These dimensions are the same thing. Something to make sense on paper. An aspect.

Time is a perception of Entropy. Nothing more. By this I am really mean more than 'decay' I am meaning interaction on any scale, be it motion or heat (really just another form of motion) or abstract ("5 hours"). There is no past, there is no future simply the now. The past is a memory-it isn't real. The future is a possibility and mutable-it isn't real until it happens.

This is Linear time. You could 'time travel' by being frozen, not in a Delorian etc.. Even the whole "traveling at close to speed of light.." time dilation argument is usually misrepresented.
What is to say that to both observer and observed 50 years had passed-but the observed (on the ship) simply didn't appear to age due to less stress on atoms/less cellular breakdown? It (I believe) came from Einsteins radioactive material in orbit statement (a radioactive time piece in space 'slows down' compared to the one on earth.). I do not buy that Einstein thought "Time" was responsible so much as having less gravitic stress/slowed decay on the matter.

Now, hypothetically a multi-verse style time travel is conceivable. Slipping into a similar universe which is at a similar time event as ours. This however would not be true time-travel. It is also presuming A: Muliple/infinite universes are real, and 2: That matter native to one could transverse to another. Well, really it has a whole lot more presumptions.

But this is already a wall of text.

Cheers.

reply to post by YarlanZey


Is it possible to sense when a split has occurred.
----Not possible.Time split occurs many times in just one second.Perhaps you are reading my post now ,but in another parallel universe you may have shut down your pc and leave for glass of beer. You will never perceive it ,although it occurs so close to you.

How does the consciousness (our stream of reality) choose which split to follow.
----There is no need to choose. When a split has occured,every new born parallel universe becomes real, in the same time,many of you appear in the respective universe.

What type of event causes a split, can this be done deliberately to change things.
----Every event would cause a split.However,exactly to say,there is no need to trigger a split by any event.It occurs at any moment,just as the pass of time.

How could we become aware of other splits - split personality, dreaming, ghosts, ETs are these all layering of splits that we sometimes become aware of.
----I have no idea,God may knows :-)

Originally posted by QBSneak000
The theory of time travel could one day become a reality. For now we rely on stories and movies to show us how its supposed to be done. For instance the "Back to the Future" series. Yes yes, its JUST a movie with no real scientific facts but theres one problem I can't seem to get my head around. The one where the Doc takes him forward in time to see himself and his future.

So this is where my theoretical question and my thread really begins. In my opinion (and I am by far NO scientist) there is no way he could have done that. and I will try to explain why.




I assume time is linear and so I would be continually moving forward through it.

If I were to travel forward through time, theoretically say from March 4th 2008 to March 5th 2012, I would leave this time line and travel in another (slipstream timeline) until I reached my destination date. If that is so, then again theoretically I would disappear to all others still on the normal time line until the moment I reappear in the future. It would be impossible for me to see myself in the future because I was removed from the normal time line, into the (slipstream). My body didn't just split in two.

Does this make any sense to anyone? Like I said, I am NO scientist. Am I on the right track or am I just a crazy dumbass?

You have misconceived time and time travel.
There are two aspects.
1) Space
2) Time

Together they make Space-Time.
An important aspect of time space is that when traveling at full speed of Light, you are covering ground thus are moving through space. at this point time stops, because you either have to be dedicating all power to moving through space or time.

The Question u should ask yourself is does time flow?? and at that in which direction?

Why is it that an egg always breaks but never unbreaks, a glass of milk always spill but never unspill? Does that mean time moves in a forward direction and is there a possibility that it could move backwards.

Well at the subatomic level there is a chance, a very hight entropy situation where all the atoms in a spilled glass of milk if given the EXACT amount of force could cause the glass to unspill in the exact reverse manner as it occurred when it originally was spilt. (long sentences i know)

Such a low chance to occur we all know this, but the probability is there...so say for arguments sake it did occur, does that mean we just went to the future?? NO.
This is why space travel in terms of moving towards the future is not possible.
Every one has a self clock, this clock ticks differently in regards to every other human, material in this universe...you could say we each have our own time slice.

Moving into the future should be rephrased to moving into another dimension, i remember reading somewhere that there are 12 dimensions according to an equation, don't quote me on it though.

What people must realize is that at the subatomic level particles don't always act the way the ought to, for unexplainable reasons they differ their course and outcome.

Think of time in regards to the big bang, we exploded outwards and each planet has its own clock referencing back to the original big bang. Therefore if Jupiter is 14 000 Light years ahead of us it takes 14 000 years for light to travel back to us so the moment we see it we are taking a glimpse of what happened on Jupiter 14 000 years before hand...so in reality if you traveled towards Jupiter you wouldn't find "another" you...you would just be in a different place...the future in regards to earth time.

[edit on 5-3-2008 by AlphaWeltall]

I think that if someone did manage to build a time machine, he would remember building the machine, and would remember all the events that he perceived while travelling. To everyone else, he would have gotten into the machine and simply disappeared.

I don't think there would be any conflict - the time traveller would be in a place in the future, but would simply have no memory of the things that happened elsewhere during his "flight." He would simply remember having existed in a place which everyone else tells him is the distant past.

What if all was once a sphere,empty in the center and fell into it's self.Thereby making the outer edges older but less stable,the center more stable and the sense of the outer edges to the center moving outward,and like a tsunami collapsing back in.The shape of a galaxy.
Hard to do a red shift reading there.

If time is to be traveled it would be a one way trip to square one. with a get out of jail free card forever.