Smokers are people too!

Originally posted by ImJaded
reply to post by sparda4355

 

that's different! [/sarcasm]

hehe

Nobody else cares if people eat themselves to cancer or death though, right ?

[edit on 5-3-2008 by ImJaded]

Exactly right... Smoking is this big taboo now (because of the government)... Beer is bad for you, but the government has not decided to convince the public of this yet, so nobody looks at it like it is that bad! Who do you think funded all those TRUTH commercials with totally skewed facts? They tell these people how to think and they don't even have the brains to know it is happening to them...

Fast food = bad
Alchohol = bad
Chinese food with MSG = bad
Anything with aspertame = bad
Smoked meat = bad

bad in this case = causes cancer... don't believe me... check it out for yourself! If you consume any of those things, don't even attempt to say one word to me about smoking! These are only a few examples, we can add cars, some hair products, the SUN, tanning beds, you name it... so use your brain, quit being DOOPED and enjoy your life, you only get one shot at it... do what makes you happy!

Originally posted by doctormcauley
...That being said, smoking around people eating/food prep is disrespectful, as is lighting up in a confined space with someone who does not like it. Don't litter your butts either. Don't smoke at work if you think you'll get fired.

But do not let them force you outside, force them to call the police, at which point the burden of proof is on them.

The informant will not be able to prove when you were smoking, only that you smoke. The police will be angry at the time wasted. They won't be angry at you, because you didn't waste their time. Chances are you will either be done your smoke long before they arrive, or simply gone somewhere else.

The funny part is... The people calling the police (in this case) are the ones who get fined... If I smoke in a bar, and I get caught... the bar gets fined for "letting me smoke"... So if they call the police, it's their ass! All they can do is ask me to leave, if they touch me, refer to a previous post... I will gladly put the cigarette out on their eye and walk out the door permanitally!

Originally posted by Cowgirlstraitup7

All this being said, I am a smoker and I do have rights, you take them away from me, fine, I will laugh my butt off when I am outside this spring and summer smoking in the fresh air, with private waitstaff and comfy tables and chairs on the smoking patio of the local bar while you are all stuffy inside the bar trying to avoid me and my smoke.

I am with this guy, and you better believe if you think for ONE second you non smokers will be joining us... Oh... I will make a habbit of blowing every puff of my delicious smoke right in your face until you leave my outdoor haven and go back in your sweaty, stinky, indoors!

We are suffering through the cold crappy outdoors to claim rights so that when it is warm and cozy outdoors, WE OWN THEM!!!

reply to post by sparda4355


Just to help you add to that list, MSG is in ALOT of food. Not just Chinese food. I have to read the ingredients of everything I buy at the grocery store because many items have MonoSodiumGlutamate. It is aka's as "Natural Flavors" and is in Catsup/Ketchup, Thousand Island Dressing, just to list a couple of common sightings.

Of course they don't have big TV comercials with skewed facts dishing out hate for that, so no one seems to care.

Everyone spouts about "denying ignorance" then follows such an ignorant movement. Bowel movement is more like it.

Originally posted by Vector J
reply to post by adigregorio

 

Different concept.

Smokers are a minority, people who drive or use elctricity from poluting stations, aren't. I don't get to choose where I get my electricity from. I don't get achoice about how I traverse large distances. I'm not saying that things couldn;t be better, sure, things could be better all over, but thats not what we're talking about here.

You have a choice about smoking...

Uhh... dude... you might not be aware, but you HAVE A CHOICE TO DRIVE OR NOT! work closer to home! take a bike... If you drive a car or eat fast food french fries, YOU HAVE NO ROOM TO TALK!

Originally posted by Blaine91555
People claim they want freedom. They don't. What they really want is control over others. There is no reason they can not have smokers only flights, smokers only trains and buses. No non-smoker would be hurt by that. It is about control.

Well said...

When everybody from my work goes to one place for lunch... Guess what, we have smoker cars... If you smoke, you ride with the smokers, if you don't, well you can but probably wont! Give us our smoking cars, give us our smoking rooms, give us our dignity!!! We have a choice to smoke, you all say that, and we choose to do it! If you don't like it, we don't force you to smoke, so stop trying to force us to quit!

Originally posted by adigregorio
reply to post by sparda4355

 

Just to help you add to that list, MSG is in ALOT of food. Not just Chinese food. I have to read the ingredients of everything I buy at the grocery store because many items have MonoSodiumGlutamate. It is aka's as "Natural Flavors" and is in Catsup/Ketchup, Thousand Island Dressing, just to list a couple of common sightings.

Of course they don't have big TV comercials with skewed facts dishing out hate for that, so no one seems to care.

Everyone spouts about "denying ignorance" then follows such an ignorant movement. Bowel movement is more like it.

Thank you, and great point! If you want to list things that aspertame is in, we wouldn't have room to do it with a maximum of 6500 characters... but to sum it up... Almost anything that is SUGAR free is cancer causing... Wow, read that again, you think you are being healthy because you are not consuming sugar... guess what, last I checked, SUGAR DOESN'T CAUSE CANCER!

It's all about what "they" want you to think... Think for yourself people... There are bigger problems out there than us "smokers"... but do you care? no... becuase you are focused on exactly what they want you to be focused on... MISDIRECTION!

reply to post by adigregorio


Oh, is it ever in a lot of food. Here's a list of its various names.

As I was looking over this thread, I was thinking about all the carcinogens and other unhealthy items around us. Unless one is able to breathe purified air, drink purified water, and eat organic, unprocessed food, you get get away from all the nastiness we consume. Second-hand smoke is not healthy, but neither is most of what we intake.

I honestly did not think about all the pollution emitted by machines and plants but that's a good point. That is quite a bit of smoke in our air.

Another point for me is I do not feel the government needs to ban such behavior. I feel that if a business or a household does not want smoking, that is different. That is their decision and should not be a decision that is forced upon them.

I do not smoke and most of the smoke I encounter is along entryways on the campus I attend school. There has been a bit of hype of a smoking ban there as well. While I do not enjoy the smell of smoke as I enter or leave buildings, if I'm concerned about my health, I'll just hold my breath. I guess I figure that I consume so much other nasty things, that a few seconds of cigarette smoke seem pretty minor.

Originally posted by jfj123

But one of the causes of lung cancer is SMOKING.

But one of the causes of emphysema is SMOKING.

ONE of the causes....not THE cause. let's ban the others, shall we?

i'm actually at a loss for words here...your argument is so completely idiotic, it defies the law of averages..

Not doing that at all. This is an unfortunate fact.

Do you have solid, reliable, backed numbers to show just how often this happens?

what's more, do you have any proof that this has EVER happened even once?

You can if it initiates an asthmatic episode.

Rescue inhaler?

I can't make you pay attention.

It's you who isn't paying attention....otherwise you would have seen that your ENTIRE argument was invalidated pages ago, with that scientific data posted about the so called "second hand smoke effects"

Yes because those diseases really don't exist and I'm making them and their causes up. RIIIGGHHHHTTT

Death isn't a disease, it's a state of existence. cancer and copd are...but just because you are exposed to "second hand smoke", doesn't produce the forgone conclusion that you WILL get either of these conditions....hell, there's no guarantee that you'll get them even if you smoke the damned things yourself. it's scaremongering. "if you smoke, you will die" that's misleading bull#....the same kind of hippy nonsense rhetoric spouted by the anti-tobacco lobby.....seriously, go do some research for yourself, instead of believing everything the tube tells you.

This really IS all about control....we shouldn't have special places to smoke, just like fat people shouldn't be allowed to have handicapped plates, and use handicapped parking spots....we should be allowed to smoke indoors, like we used to...

the smoking/non smoking sections worked just fine...big brother should have left it alone...



[edit on 5-3-2008 by jfj123]

Originally posted by jfj123
source wikipedia

quote something reliable.

and before you argue with me about it, i could go edit the COPD article to say that it's caused by excessive d**k sucking.....doesn't make it true. quote something reliable.

[edit on 5-3-2008 by Daedalus]

reply to post by Daedalus


Here is some data regarding smoke/second hand smoke...

When the tobacco executives testified to Congress that they did not believe that smoking caused cancer, their answers were probably truthful and I agree with that statement. Now, if they were asked if smoking increases the risk of getting lung cancer, then their answer based upon current evidence should have be "yes." But even so, the risk of a smoker getting lung cancer is much less than anyone would suspect. Based upon what the media and anti-tobacco organizations say, one would think that if you smoke, you get lung cancer (a 100% correlation) or at least expect a 50+% occurrence before someone uses the word "cause."
-------
Would you believe that the real number is < 10% (see Appendix A)? Yes, a US white male (USWM) cigarette smoker has an 8% lifetime chance of dying from lung cancer but the USWM nonsmoker also has a 1% chance of dying from lung cancer...
-------
You don't see this type of information being reported, and we hear things like, "if you smoke you will die", but when we actually look at the data, lung cancer accounts for only 2% of the annual deaths worldwide and only 3% in the US.**
-------
When we look at the data over a longer period, such as 50 years as we did here, the lifetime relative risk is only 8 (see Appendix A). That means that even using the biased data that is out there, a USWM smoker has only an 8x more risk of dying from lung cancer than a nonsmoker. It surprised me too because I had always heard numbers like 20-40 times more risk. Statistics that are understandable and make sense to the general public, what a concept!
-------
6. Certain types of pollution are more dangerous than second hand smoke.3
7. Second hand smoke has never been shown to be a causative factor in lung cancer.
8. A WHO study did not show that passive (second hand) smoke statistically increased the risk of getting lung cancer.
9. No study has shown that second hand smoke exposure during childhood increases their risk of getting lung cancer.
10. In one study they couldn't even cause lung cancer in mice after exposing them to cigarette smoke for a long time.23

Source
**bold and size added to emphasize**

There are my numbers, where are yours?

[edit1] fixed bb code (I shot my eye out!)
[edit2] first edit didn't seem to work
[edit3] 3rd time is the charm?

[edit on 3/5/2008 by adigregorio]

[edit on 3/5/2008 by adigregorio]

[edit on 3/5/2008 by adigregorio]

reply to post by sparda4355



Yes fast food is bad for you. I support you on that.

So...what you're saying is that if fast food is also bad for you, so smoking should be encouraged and smokers should still be provided with the convenience of destroying their health and cause themselves to be burdens to themselves, their families, health care personnel and the society? Is that what you are proposing?

You're not thinking logically.

I take it that you ARE a smoker because it has obviously adversely effected your cerebral cortex, that's the BRAIN, by the way, in case you didn't know.

Don't even bother replying because I'm done wasting my time with this thread.

Oh yes, and I thought before posting, did you?

Originally posted by adigregorio


There are my numbers, where are yours?

Awesome facts... I have to admit, I am a smoker and I am blown away! The propaganda is insane in this area! Teachers telling their young students to throw away their parents cigarettes, sense when did smoking give a teacher a right to encourage a student to disrespect their parents? Sorry, that just came to me, but seriously... awesome facts! where did you get that (if it is there, I must have missed it)!

reply to post by sparda4355


The source

He has plenty of other research in the journal, but I just pulled out some highlights. I even had found the test that was done on the mice, but they were screen captures of the actual study and I didn't want to sit and type it all out.

For those of use who try to find this information it is buried deep within. All the anti-smoking cream/crap rises to the top of any searches via google/ask. Hence why I agree with the conspiracy thread on smoking.

So while I am sure there will be a plethora of these propaganda studies posted, I will have to work diligently to find "true" studies to defend with. As for now, I am pining for a cup o' java and some cheesecake so it will have to wait.

Originally posted by mandrake
reply to post by sparda4355

 

Yes fast food is bad for you. I support you on that.

So...what you're saying is that if fast food is also bad for you, so smoking should be encouraged and smokers should still be provided with the convenience of destroying their health and cause themselves to be burdens to themselves, their families, health care personnel and the society? Is that what you are proposing?

You're not thinking logically.

I take it that you ARE a smoker because it has obviously adversely effected your cerebral cortex, that's the BRAIN, by the way, in case you didn't know.

Don't even bother replying because I'm done wasting my time with this thread.

Oh yes, and I thought before posting, did you?

Well I will reply, even though you apparently are scared to back the senseless and meaningless babblings you attempt to back up your theory with!!! What I am clearly stating is that if you eat food that causes cancer, chew gum that causes cancer, and use products that cause cancer... YOU CAN'T SAY A SINGLE THING ABOUT SOMEBODY THAT SMOKES CIGARETTES! It is the same thing smarty pants!

If you do any of those things, you TOO will be a burden to your family, society, or whatever you were babbling about!

Damn straight we should be provided with the right to do whatever we want to our bodies, just like you are! If we choose to smoke, we have that right... You don't like smoke so we now smoke outside in the cold, all I am asking for is some respect! You want us outside, give us a comfortable place "outside" to smoke... Shelter, seating, disposal! You swear like I am asking that you start smoking!

BTW... fellow smokers, this guy just called us stupid! I suggest we all u2u him and show him how intelligent we can be!

Originally posted by adigregorio
reply to post by sparda4355

 

The source

So while I am sure there will be a plethora of these propaganda studies posted, I will have to work diligently to find "true" studies to defend with. As for now, I am pining for a cup o' java and some cheesecake so it will have to wait.

Thank you sir, and when you are done with your java and cheesecake (both of which sound fantastic at the moment) you should treat yourself to a wonderful stick of pleasure!

edit: wow that sounded bad! I was referring to a cigarette! lol

[edit on 5-3-2008 by sparda4355]

Originally posted by Nohup

That's the way it goes. Nobody's stopping you from puffing your lungs out. But society has determined that it doesn't want you blowing smoke in somebody else's face in a public place.

Well said... and I agree with you! Society wants us outside, society (mostly retarted mayors) have made this so, and we are now outside... The only problem is, in some areas, it is extremely cold! They can't just make all the smokers instantly quit smoking so it is obvious that we are going to continue to smoke!

All I am asking is that we be accomidated! Give us shelter from harsh weather, give us a place to sit down (sense we can't be inside), and a place to dispose so we don't litter!

Originally posted by adigregorio
reply to post by Daedalus

 

Here is some data regarding smoke/second hand smoke...

When the tobacco executives testified to Congress that they did not believe that smoking caused cancer, their answers were probably truthful and I agree with that statement. Now, if they were asked if smoking increases the risk of getting lung cancer, then their answer based upon current evidence should have be "yes." But even so, the risk of a smoker getting lung cancer is much less than anyone would suspect. Based upon what the media and anti-tobacco organizations say, one would think that if you smoke, you get lung cancer (a 100% correlation) or at least expect a 50+% occurrence before someone uses the word "cause."
-------
Would you believe that the real number is < 10% (see Appendix A)? Yes, a US white male (USWM) cigarette smoker has an 8% lifetime chance of dying from lung cancer but the USWM nonsmoker also has a 1% chance of dying from lung cancer...
-------
You don't see this type of information being reported, and we hear things like, "if you smoke you will die", but when we actually look at the data, lung cancer accounts for only 2% of the annual deaths worldwide and only 3% in the US.**
-------
When we look at the data over a longer period, such as 50 years as we did here, the lifetime relative risk is only 8 (see Appendix A). That means that even using the biased data that is out there, a USWM smoker has only an 8x more risk of dying from lung cancer than a nonsmoker. It surprised me too because I had always heard numbers like 20-40 times more risk. Statistics that are understandable and make sense to the general public, what a concept!
-------
6. Certain types of pollution are more dangerous than second hand smoke.3
7. Second hand smoke has never been shown to be a causative factor in lung cancer.
8. A WHO study did not show that passive (second hand) smoke statistically increased the risk of getting lung cancer.
9. No study has shown that second hand smoke exposure during childhood increases their risk of getting lung cancer.
10. In one study they couldn't even cause lung cancer in mice after exposing them to cigarette smoke for a long time.23

Source
**bold and size added to emphasize**

There are my numbers, where are yours?

[edit1] fixed bb code (I shot my eye out!)
[edit2] first edit didn't seem to work
[edit3] 3rd time is the charm?

[edit on 3/5/2008 by adigregorio]

[edit on 3/5/2008 by adigregorio]

[edit on 3/5/2008 by adigregorio]

that's the information i'm talking about. i'm agreeing with that data, we're on the same page.

Meanwhile, your coworkers have to pickup your workload slack, while your zesty smelling ciggy arse is sneaking outside to hotbox your fix every 2-3 hours.

Yea, we should cater to your needs, while we are at it lets cater to the hunger needs of the gravly obese, and the almost zombie like meth-heads we have to work with and call our coworkers. Jackass!

reply to post by RexxCrow


If you had trouble reading the other posters comments on this let me reiterate.

Smokers tend to work harder than non-smokers. They set "mini goals" that when achieved they get a "treat". Versus non-smokers working the same speed till it is break time. I, for one, would not go on break until my "mini goals" were met. And the same seems to hold true to many of the smokers that have responded in this thread.

I know when I had co-workers that didn't smoke. They would spend much more than the allotted 15 minutes for a given break. Whereas I would spend 8 minutes (time it takes me to smoke one cigarette)

Who is taking who's slack? And I don't know about your job, but EVERY job I have had did not give "extra" smoke breaks for smokers. They got the same amount of breaks as non-smokers. And it was the non-smokers that were abusing the break privileges.