Battle Rifle or Assault Rifle? What do you bring with you?

reply to post by mattifikation




Nah, a .308 with a 16" is fine. Larger calibers suffer less from short barrels.

If your goal is to have an easy to maneuver rifle, the 16 is perfect.

On the other hand, if you're looking for careful, slow, long range performance, get whatever barrel you want. Longer barrels do give the bullet higher velocity, but it really only amounts to a couple hundred fps.


For example, my chrono shows .308 win:

26" barrel: 2865 fps with 150 grain
16" barrel: 2680 with 150


Not a huge difference.


Believe me, you won't be thinking about all this stuff when the SHTF. You just want stuff to go to the same place every time, and your gun not to jam or fail.

Get something you know will work.

Originally posted by Tinhatman
reply to post by kdeery

 

I hope I never nned to shoot at someone wearing body armor. That would mean the you would probably need a shovel to find the fan.

The 357 is capable of nulling standard body "armor". The right load in 357 SIG will as well.


Always go for the rifle. A pistol is a backup.

It seems funny that so many survivalists are focused on which cannon to buy. What are you guys expecting to do... fight a war?

In a survival situation, or a bug out situation when you need to move fast, do you really want to wear yourself down carrying heavy artillery, and the ammo to feed it? Whew. Try packing that kind of weight around for a few days, along with enough food and water for 2-3 weeks.

I like an M-14 for fixed base operations but in a necessary, must do situation, your focus should be on using stealth, concealment and brains instead.

A .22 survival rifle (and/or a long-barreled Ruger target pistol) seems ideal, is concealable, can carry in the trunk of your vehicle, and has the advantage of ammo that's readily available, light weight, and suitable for most close-in encounters (100m+).

When properly used, this small caliber weapon is more than adequate to secure whatever else you might want or need to take away from somebody who has it, and is not as alert, or as clever, as you.

Originally posted by cavscout
Want to hear the opinion of someone who has shot real live people with both the 5.56(.223) and 7.62x51(.308) and seen several people shot with the 7.62x39?

Get a damn battle riffle! Your Yugo is great fun, a fine, solid built riffle (I love mine) but total inadequate.

While common modern body armor w/sapi plates will stop even the 30-06 of a Garand, large rounds like the 7.62x51 and 30-06 will still DESTROY a person under the vest. Sure, with medical treatment they should live, however they will have at least a bruise the size of a grapefruit and probably some broken ribs to deal with. Multiple shots are also likely to defeat a ceramic sapi plate if fired from a large caliber battle riffle.

7.62x39 and 5.56, however, will do little to the person behind the vest, even at very close range, unless getting them to crap in their pants was your goal.

5.56 is especially worthless even without body armor. It requires about a foot of soft fleshy material before it begins to fragment and cause multiple wound channels. In sit. X people are likely to be skinny enough that it will pass through even a torso without causing much initial damage. I have seen malnurished individuals take several rounds from an m-4 before they stoped shooting.

7.62x39 is a bit better on un armored persons as it begins its upward tumble action at around 3-4 centimeters, causing a significant wound channel at close range.

One other thing to consider, however, is energy delivered. Most experts agree that you need about 1000 lbs. to drop either a human or a deer consistently. Up to 100 yards, the 7.62 does the job well enough, past that it fails in power. By 200 yards the energy delivered to the target will be around 850 to 900, not enough. So even though you can hit the target at 200 yards because trajectory at that range from a yugo should be less than a 6 inch drop, the energy you are delivering falls short of what is needed.

That 7.62x51, however, maintains that 1000 lbs way out to 700 yards or so and has the accuracy to get it there!


Hands down, GET A BATTLE RIFFLE!

And you dont have to spend over a grand, either. Look into Cetme and FAL


Oh, and to the person who recommended a pistol, anyone who has ever been in a gun fight will tell you that a pistol should only serve one function: to fight your way back to your riffle, which you should never have set down in the first place.

Bringing a pistol to a gun fight is like bringing a knife to a sword fight.


[edit on 4-3-2008 by cavscout]

[edit on 4-3-2008 by cavscout]

I agree with Cav Scout. I have a .223 FN FS2000 with steel core ammo and it has its good side and use. But nothing beats a 7.62x51/308. Great accuracy, ballistics, and effectiveness in engaging both organic and in-organic targets. I am in the process of getting a Springfield Armory SOCOM 16. I also like the HK91’s and their clones. I also like the FN FAL family. I would love to have a SOCOM 16 with a HK91’s sight system. The 7.62x39 AK’s and SKS’s are ok and at close range serve a purpose and are cost effective but after 150 meters you are wasting your time.

Stay safe,

Jason

I would love to hear some opinions on the Dragunov family of rifles in the ways of a survival rifle, as I've been considering purchasing a PSL.

The 7.62x54r round is a very powerful round which could be used for both game and as a long range "deterrent". With the Dragunov's being semi automatic, you can use it both as a sniper and as a battle rifle with a hair more punch than a .308, though you can get the SVD series in .308 which may be an idea since .308 is a more common round for US/NATO forces. But yet again 7.62x54r is cheap to stockpile.

So my question is does anyone on the board own a Dragunov and/or has anyone recently shot one, and what are your opinions on the functionality of it as a possible survival rifle?

Hi fellow SKS owner, I would like to hear more about your bugout plan in FL.....that's a tough place (read and respond!)



Interestingly enough I have a Yugo SKS (Yugoslavian PAP M59/66) as well, and partly due to my being left handed as well. My home to bugout area/holdout area is vastly different than that of Florida. There is no question in my mind Florida would be hornet's nest. (Funny thing is my wife wants to apply for a job in northeast FL!)

The reason I choose an SKS is:

1.)Rugged and economical
2.)Easy to clean and disassemble
3.)It is INTIMIDATING if close enough to see (bayonet, etc)....think: non-threating encounters if someone is casing you.
4.)Ammo is fairly common, not the most common....up in price because of Iraq/Afghanistan.
5.)Obviously it is a combat CARBINE, and not a recreational/hunting rifle, it is PURPOSE BUILT.

Now, I am in the minority here but my second purchase I will be making soon will be a Marlin .22 semiautomatic rifle.

Why?

1.)Rounds can be re-rounded, and are easily found and traded for, a commidity round.
2.)You can easily with a homemade reloader, reload 13 rounds in less than 5 seconds.
3.)It is economical and fairly reliable.....great hunting rifle...a woman or child can handle it.

FL is beyond the means of even most of us sturdy ATS types. Intimidating to some Im sure....

Considering that the main population base is in the south, and the vast majority of people have only one avenue of movement, up the pennisula to the north; that will be a HUGE mess. In fact share with us, without giving away your tacticals, your plan.....I am curious because I understand Florida has its share of folks you wouldn't want around yoru family.

I guess for me here in Nebraska, my hold out is 200 miles away and there is nothing between there and my homecity but a few towns of mostly friendly folks.....

Get a Saiga in 308 caliber. You get the reliability of an AK action with the stopping power of a 308 round. Added benefit of a 308, you can get it anywhere. Also great for dropping a deer or an elk for food.

I have an DSA SA-48 I swear by. Its accurate( I use it for service rifle matches), Tough, and easy to field strip and clean. I carry a Colt .45 Officers. I have a very nice Colt diamondback in .22 with 3 inch barrel custom made for me as a backup. All this and packed with total of 600 rounds broken down to 300 for FN, 100 .45, the rest .22. All ready with appropriate gear for running like hell. I prefer a battle rifle even though the FN is heavy. Oh, and bring more than one large knife. If one breaks,and they can with hard use, you can make a great spear and still have another knife to use if need be
Zindo

[edit on 5/18/2008 by ZindoDoone]

7.7 WWII Japan sniper rifle, Light, Accurate, Bolt action, single shot. Forces you to fire conservatively, flat trajectory. Nickle lined barrel for all weather. Highly resistant to the elements.

A 22 20 / 10 guage over/under for all small game. I assume you will be field reloading. If you have any skills, you will pickup some more standard items along the way which you can use with the more common ammo you come across in the field.

What self respecting survivalist would take a body shot? You do not try to penetrate armor, you take out the control system. Larger and noisy weapons just give your position away. Never use a gun when a crossbow will do!




[edit on 19-5-2008 by Cyberbian]

reply to post by Cyberbian


The Type 99 Arisaka 7.7mm is an extremely poor choice because there's almost no new commercial ammo available for it. What ammo that is available is nearly $1.50 per round. It is a 5-shot magazine. The sniper versions are so rare that you could by a new Savage 110 series gun and scope for the same price that has a much better trigger.

The action can be converted to 7.62mm NATO or .30-'06, no problem.

IMHO the Best cheap off the shelf military surplus sniper rifle with plenty of available ammo is the old Russian warhorse, the Moisin-Nagant. There's lot's of aftermarket stocks, scope mounts and the trigger can be tuned easily by a competent gunsmith.

If you expect trouble with your local warlord, I'd choose the SKS or AK-47 over the M1A or M14 and Garand as they are much easier weapons to shoot than the both M1A and Garand. The more powerful rounds they fire should be used in a scoped, bolt action weapon to utilize their maximum range potential with accuracy.

Everyone knocks the SKS round for being weak but both my brother and I have taken fairly large game(elk and wild boar) at normal hunting distances(under 200 yrds) and the round is certainly accurate enough to hit 9" pie plates at distances out to 400 yards. I'm fairly certain that it will punch through a standard issue GI helmet at that distance as well. Body armor only protects the body and not the head, arms or legs.

When I was a tenager in Alberta, I was lucky to know
an old codger who was a Polish resistance fighter in WW2
and once in a while we'd go hunting in Northern Alberta
for Moose and he always brought his custom made .418 Cal
rifle with a 34" barrel which was Guaranteed to down
a 1600 lbs moose.

He was a master machinist and was smart enough to make
all his own parts, make his own non-standard .418 rounds
and fill em up himself. Like I said, he was a true
master gunsmith and that baby was Accurate to 750 yards
guaranteed to take down a full bull moose with a lung shot.
It wasn't that heavy, and although it had a pretty good kick,
it wasn't that bad, comparable to my dad's British 303
which he use for moose hunting too!

Gawd I remember those days eating 2" thick moose steaks
marinated and spiced over a real hardwood fire...mmmm...mmmm..
I miss that time of life!!!!

As such, if you have the skill you could make something
in between a .308 and a .50 cal which is useable
for BOTH hunting and when the SHTF and I guess
something like my friend's .418 is as good as any.
Long range, Accuracy and stopping power all in one.

It had a bit of a kick but was still comparable
to my dads old British 303 which also used
to hunt moose successfully and really wasn't that much
heavier to carry ito the bush on 20 mile hikes!

Any one here making custom size rounds and rifles?
What are the best barrel lengths and round calibres
if one would wants to do some custom gunsmithing?

reply to post by Tinhatman


Dropping looters on State Road 436?

Dude, get some treatment and therapy....Jeez

reply to post by Jasestrong2


"I have a .223 FN FS2000"

No you don't...you have a 5.56mm x 45mm FS2000.


You actually DO have a FS2000 don't you ? It's stamped onto the rear left of the rifle in large letters as well as mentioned at least 9 times (taking a cursory look) in the booklet).

I wish people would get this right.

There are small but important differences which can cause inaccuracy at best, and be dangerous, at worst if you use the wrong ammunition in 0.223 & 5.56mm weapons.

www.saami.org...

(down the middle of the page against 223 Remington)

www.winchester.com...

www.thegunzone.com...