Bible written while high?

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[edit on 6-3-2008 by chissler]

reply to post by junglejake


www.abovetopsecret.com...

Christianity is not real, nor is jesus/god/satan/lucifer.

Astrology and christianity supposedley arrived at the same time - conicidence?
what about the numerology?
what about the conf at nicea - what was that all about?
was matt, mark, luke & john eye witness accounts? is that possible since jesus wasn't/isn't real?
think so, read about horus, isis, seth, osiris.
how could a believer in something like that employ slavery?
why doesn't this god/jesus/satan/lucifer touch the euro and have them give back all that slave money?
if the original writers were high, why can't people get high? why is their a law against hemp, but, you can buy alcohol? can someone explain and if it's like that, can't god make it happen?

Originally posted by cmptrwhiz
Christianity is not real, nor is jesus/god/satan/lucifer.

Thats poor logic. Just because you believe the Christians deities do not exist, does not necessarily make it so. Furthermore, even if their gods did not exist, the religion is quite real and boasts some pretty high numbers of membership across the world.

was matt, mark, luke & john eye witness accounts? is that possible since jesus wasn't/isn't real?

You have yet to provide any evidence that jesus was not a real person. I dont think modern history has come to any conclusions on this question, so if you have any new evidence, please share.

if the original writers were high, why can't people get high?

That answers runs across the lines of social control and protection of status. Too long of an answer and too off topic to expand upon.

why is their a law against hemp, but, you can buy alcohol?

Because of the alcohol, tobacco, and petrol industries. Hemp being a very versatile product would have cut into the market shares of those major industries, and they certainly wouldn't let that happen.

can someone explain

I hope i answered some of your questions to your liking.

and if it's like that, can't god make it happen?

Im not really sure what you mean by this



I have a question for you now. Even if Christianity is a false religion, what difference does it make? The religion preaches compassion, kindness and love. Wouldn't it be better to have a positive influence in this world thats based on fabrications, rather than have a negative influence thats based on the truth? Furthermore, who are we to say what is true or not? In the grand scheme of things, we know as much about the afterlife as we do about ourselves, which is to say, very little.

Live and let live is what I say.

reply to post by InSpiteOf


poor logic: following something that doesn't exist, not real, hasn't been proven, you've never seen or touched these characters, they haven't appeared in thousands of years if ever... now that's some poor logic for you.
high numbers??? What does that mean??? that's on indication of validity - i surely don't think so. how many 'christians' can speak to the history of your bible, the origins, the influences, time periods, audiences, etc... i think about 1%. so you have a bunch of followers, sorry logic man, doesn't validate anything.
there isn't a single strand of evidence that jesus is real. you haven't seen him. you don't know. i have never seen him, he's not real, just a story and a fairytale like santa claus.
alcohol is legal, doesn't that cross those lines you speak of? please get a grip. hemp is the most resourceful plant on the planet and they say no one can use it? can you get cancer from it? however, cigs are legal. logic for ya!
market share - duh!
you haven't answered anything. your statements are as evident as jesus/god/devil/satan/lucifer/santa and an easter bunny that lays eggs. hahahah
if it's good for god, can't he come down here and let us or help us smoke hemp?
what difference does it make? that's a great question, similar to what's the benefit of it... THERES NONE. you don't need that crap to be a good person and people don't flock to it because they want to become good people. most don't want to go to 'hell' so they jump on it. that's not a genuine believer, that's a scared person running from the fire that they don't even know is real.
this 'positive' influence is based on lies and untruths, so it can't go far which is why you have the molesting preachers and teachers, liars, fornicators, full of lust, greed, and all the rest. yes, there are some good people, but it has nothing to do with god because he's not made himself present in over 2,000 years supposedly.
i'm a good person; i don't need god for that. never been to jail or on drugs, i take care of my fam, etc... i don't need god for that.
show me the benefit of believing in these characters - jesus/god/satan/santa... it's all about the money and the control. that's why the story has been allowed to stick around so long!
i can't believes africans even follow this crap. it's something they learned from the slavemasters who no way in hell could have believed in something like this while believing the african was less than human. it's a joke, just like the bible and all that's in it.
be aware of something that's real; rising taxes, gas prices, food prices, poverty, unemployment, utilities, insurance, medical bills, education, etc... make god and his crew show up and he could convince more people in lieu of hiding out and not helping out or showing up.
i am the one to say it's not real because it not! you don't have to respond or read it. afterlife is a concept like jesus/god/satan/santa - no one knows. someone had an idea and fed it to a bunch of gullible individuals and a few wise ones said 'we can make some cash off of this stuff' and there you go! nothing has to be proven with most of mankind because it feels too good. people like fantasy and hope and will trade that in for reality. reality is that if you don't work, you don't eat. god/jesus/satan/santa ain't going to pay your bills, wash your car, get you out of jail, rescue slaves, save lives, forgive debt, buy your insurance, deliver you from sickness and disease, it's all up to you and in the end, you still don't know how much time you are given, how much time you have, where you are going to end up.
love your kids, friends and family, be a good person. make god show up like we have to show up to work! hahahaha
a virgin birth. hey, did jesus ever sin? since we take on our parents DNA, mary sinned, so did jesus, right? hahaha classic fairytales... gotta love em.

Well, despite my previous post, I am not a Christian. I do not believe in any God. I used to be an atheist, much like you. Through personal experiences, I have come to believe there is something more (read: after life) to this universe.

You could consider me Agnostic, but spiritual...Spiritually Agnostic.

I understand you have a lot of frustration towards Organized Religion (specifically Christianity). So do I, but again, in my experience, I think it is better to leave people to their own devices (live and let live), rather than to badger them about their beliefs. At least when it comes to religion.

With that in mind, re-read what I wrote. None of it was hostile towards you for having an atheist perspective. With that in mind, I will now address your post.

Originally posted by cmptrwhiz
poor logic: following something that doesn't exist, not real, hasn't been proven, you've never seen or touched these characters, they haven't appeared in thousands of years if ever... now that's some poor logic for you.

I don't dispute that religion takes faith in the unbelievable. My comment about your use of logic was specifically addressed to this comment in your initial post:

Christianity is not real,

The way I understood your thinking is, "Christianity is not real because its gods are not real."

This is a false statement, as Christianity is very much a real religion, and it does not matter if their gods are established fact or not.

If you had said "The Christian gods are not real" My reply would have been different.

high numbers??? What does that mean???

Only that Christianity exists.

that's on indication of validity - i surely don't think so.

Nor do I.

how many 'christians' can speak to the history of your bible...i think about 1%. so you have a bunch of followers, sorry logic man, doesn't validate anything.

Again, not my religion and I think you are correct. High attendance does not equate to validity.

alcohol is legal, doesn't that cross those lines you speak of? please get a grip.

What lines? I speak of no lines that cannot be crossed. Especially since I've crossed many of them myself.

hemp is the most resourceful plant on the planet and they say no one can use it? can you get cancer from it? however, cigs are legal. logic for ya!

I agree, it makes no sense on the health side of things, but it makes perfect sense when thinking about the economical situation at the time of its criminalization.

market share - duh!

I dont think you actually read my reply, did you?

you haven't answered anything. your statements are as evident as jesus/god/devil/satan/lucifer/santa and an easter bunny that lays eggs. hahahah

Which statements of mine are unclear in this and my previous post?

you don't need that crap to be a good person and people don't flock to it because they want to become good people. most don't want to go to 'hell' so they jump on it. that's not a genuine believer, that's a scared person running from the fire that they don't even know is real.

I agree, others do not. Its called a difference of opinion, you better get used to them because you'll run into them everywhere you go.

show me the benefit of believing in these characters -

It give some people hope in an otherwise dark world. Who are you to take that away? If others are not as strong as you, why must they suffer so you can be vindicated?

Your aggression is really misplaced.

be aware of something that's real; rising taxes, gas prices, food prices, poverty, unemployment, utilities, insurance, medical bills, education, etc... make god and his crew show up and he could convince more people in lieu of hiding out and not helping out or showing up.

Yes it would be wonderful if someone from the sky fixed the world. But I happen to think that we are the only ones that can fix it, and while you waste time trying to convince everyone of your belief, the world gets worse.

afterlife is a concept like jesus/god/satan/santa - no one knows.

Precisely, no one knows Not you, not me, not junglejake. That means, it could exist, or it could not exist. its 50/50

love your kids, friends and family, be a good person.

Many of us do, with or without religion.

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
That means, it could exist, or it could not exist. its 50/50

Actually, it both exists and doesn't exist. Shroedinger's cat, and all that ...

reply to post by hidatsa


Heh, and I thought I was pushing the bounds of understanding a little. Now we have quantum mechanics to worry about

Originally posted by InSpiteOf
Heh, and I thought I was pushing the bounds of understanding a little. Now we have quantum mechanics to worry about

Or to be more precise, to worry about and at the same time not worry about, as both states must co-exist for either to be true.

(I can go on like this all day, but eventually it becomes gibberish)

reply to post by InSpiteOf


something more??? where did that idea come from, you didn't create that. why not have an original thought?
i have no frustration towards religion, i just know it's a game like good ol santa and like the gov.
i will badger whomever will listen.
no sense in re-reading nonsense. thank you.
christianity is based of my myth and fairytales, not real. therefore, the religion, gods, etc... are not real.
i guess, i am wrong; religion is just a way of doing things. so i guess christianity/religion although bs, because people follow it, it's real. hahaha
economical situation? you mean the greedy becoming greedier? the economic situation for most americans back then was dire - surely a good time not to criminalize the goods.
i didn't read your reply - you are correct.
i am no diff than the preacher giving people the false hope in something thats not real. i offer people reality! get off your butt and go to work, things will begin to happen. remove the fantasy, fairytales and mythology and expand your mind. these are 2,000 year old stories of fancy and are humorous at best.
someone made mention of the burning bush - it was hemp!
you are correct, we should fix the world, the gov and all the rest. but we leave that up to a few kooks and look where we are today. when are we all going to wake up?
no one has seen heaven or hell, therefore, its a concept just like religion. because one hopes its so, doesn't make it so. i can imaging that when we die, we turn into lightbulbs - it's just my imagination. some people will follow it and think there is something to it, others will say it sounds so stupid! like the afterlife; someone came up with it and people just run with it. the opposite of life is death, that's real. not the afterlife or heaven and hell.
so the 50/50 thing, hmmm...
how can something exist that one doesn't know of? it's called guessing, not science. 50/50 doesn't come into play with unknowns, again, it's called guessing.
what is the opposite of afterlife? afterlife doesn't exist in reality, just someones thought. whereas, you have life and then you have death; the opposite.
could the opposite of afterlife be beforebirth? before birth, what are we?
so in order for afterlife to be true, what has to exist since afterlife is equivalent to... death? the opposite of that is life, you mean to tell me there are 3 sides to this story?
GEEEZZZ!!!

reply to post by Conspiracy Theorist


Greetings...


I read this story a few days ago. What can I say, this is not surprising.

I'm sure towards the last days there will be many people that slander the Prophets. The Prophets who brought guidance to mankind are the best of the human race. To slander them, is to slander God. Mussa (AS) - Moses is one of the 'Ul il Assam' the 5 Greatest of all the Prophets, and is mentioned more than any other Prophet in the Quran. Mussa (AS) is the Prophet who spoke to Allah directly.

I would ask the question, what would be easier to create, a green bush that burns, or a human from a drop of sperm?

I myself have seen many things that people would probably not believe, and I have never drunk or taken drugs. I guess some are going to be in for a very big shock, for we shall all know the truth at the moment of our death.

In this era, we need to be familiar with the real stories of the Prophets and the guidance that they taught as we move to the last days.

When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes. For falsehood by it's very nature is bound to perish.

Preface

Since you decided not to read either of my replies, this will be the last one I write to you. I write it too you in hopes that you will educate yourself and read what I have written.

Originally posted by cmptrwhiz
something more??? where did that idea come from, you didn't create that. why not have an original thought?

Nor did you create the idea that there is nothing else to life. Follow your own advice.

i have no frustration towards religion,

Your posts state otherwise.

i will badger whomever will listen.

Then you will go through life finding only deaf ears.

no sense in re-reading nonsense. thank you.

You didnt read it the first time. Had you have read it, you would find that I am not religious, and maybe even have expanded your own understanding.

i guess, i am wrong; religion is just a way of doing things. so i guess christianity/religion although bs, because people follow it, it's real. hahaha

No, thats the opposite of what I said. What I said was, the religion exists, i made no comment to its validity.

economical situation? you mean the greedy becoming greedier?

Yes, that is what I mean.

the economic situation for most americans back then was dire - surely a good time not to criminalize the goods.

Honestly, you seem to only want to read what you write and pat yourself on the back for being such a forward thinker. But man, you've got another thing coming to you. Nothing you have posted here is original, most of it has already been discussed, at length, on this very website. You offer a very reductionist stance with a heavy dose of ranting adolesences.

Try and educate yourself by listening to differing points of view, before you declare yourself the victor of a debate.

i didn't read your reply - you are correct.

Not very suprising.

i offer people reality!

Not really, you offer stale observations with no critical thought presented with poor language skills.

get off your butt and go to work, things will begin to happen.

I work upwards of 60 hours a week. I support my household because my mother is dying of cancer and cannot work herself.

How old are you? Do you have to support a dying family member? Preach to me when you hit your 20's.

remove the fantasy, fairytales and mythology and expand your mind.

How about you study those fairytales to gain knowledge of how and why they were created, instead of brushing them off as BS. You sir, are the closed minded one.

because one hopes its so, doesn't make it so.

You are correct, and this statement, applies to you aswell.

so the 50/50 thing, hmmm...
how can something exist that one doesn't know of?

Ever heard of gravity? Good. When you were 3, did you float up to the sky because you didnt know gravity existed? No, you didnt bevause it applied to you regardless of your ignorance of its existance. Before an apple fell on Newtons head, no one understood gravity or had teh faintest idea what the force was, but it was there nonetheless.

it's called guessing, not science. 50/50 doesn't come into play with unknowns, again, it's called guessing.

Really, so you can prove difinitively that there is no afterlife? Please present your evidence.

If you have none, then there is exactly a 50% chance that it exists, and exactly a 50% chance it does not. (Quantum mechanics aside)

Try and read my replies, show me the same respect I am showing you. Otherwise, I feel we have nothing more to say to eachother.

Originally posted by FamiliarBoyOfGoodFortune
reply to post by Conspiracy Theorist

 

Greetings...


I read this story a few days ago. What can I say, this is not surprising.

I'm sure towards the last days there will be many people that slander the Prophets. The Prophets who brought guidance to mankind are the best of the human race. To slander them, is to slander God. Mussa (AS) - Moses is one of the 'Ul il Assam' the 5 Greatest of all the Prophets, and is mentioned more than any other Prophet in the Quran. Mussa (AS) is the Prophet who spoke to Allah directly.

I would ask the question, what would be easier to create, a green bush that burns, or a human from a drop of sperm?

I myself have seen many things that people would probably not believe, and I have never drunk or taken drugs. I guess some are going to be in for a very big shock, for we shall all know the truth at the moment of our death.

In this era, we need to be familiar with the real stories of the Prophets and the guidance that they taught as we move to the last days.

When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes. For falsehood by it's very nature is bound to perish.

How is this slander? I just don't see how saying that God used a Halucination (which would be the easiest form) to inspire Moses is a slander? It might explain the "How it happened" but it in no way detracts from the message of Moses. Unless of course you really don't believe that God works in mysterious ways.

Originally posted by Quazga

Originally posted by FamiliarBoyOfGoodFortune
reply to post by Conspiracy Theorist

 

Greetings...


I read this story a few days ago. What can I say, this is not surprising.

I'm sure towards the last days there will be many people that slander the Prophets. The Prophets who brought guidance to mankind are the best of the human race. To slander them, is to slander God. Mussa (AS) - Moses is one of the 'Ul il Assam' the 5 Greatest of all the Prophets, and is mentioned more than any other Prophet in the Quran. Mussa (AS) is the Prophet who spoke to Allah directly.

I would ask the question, what would be easier to create, a green bush that burns, or a human from a drop of sperm?

I myself have seen many things that people would probably not believe, and I have never drunk or taken drugs. I guess some are going to be in for a very big shock, for we shall all know the truth at the moment of our death.

In this era, we need to be familiar with the real stories of the Prophets and the guidance that they taught as we move to the last days.

When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes. For falsehood by it's very nature is bound to perish.

How is this slander? I just don't see how saying that God used a Halucination (which would be the easiest form) to inspire Moses is a slander? It might explain the "How it happened" but it in no way detracts from the message of Moses. Unless of course you really don't believe that God works in mysterious ways.

If you do not know of the character of Mussa (AS) - Moses or the Prophets, then you would not see this as slander. Prophets are Allah's messengers on the earth, when Allah wants to do something, He says 'Be' and it is.

Drugs affect a persons senses, and as such, cause a lot of problems for society like alcohol does. This is not befitting for the character of a Prophet.

When the magicians gathered to do battle with Mussa (AS) who they thought was a magician, they threw their staffs, sticks and ropes and used magic to make the people gathered imagine that they were snakes. When Mussa (AS) threw his staff, through the miracle of Allah it turned into an actual snake and devoured what the magicians threw. As the magicians were the masters of magic at that time (And when a Prophet comes, they challenge the people in what they do best with miracles from Allah), they knew this was no magicians trick, so they fell prostrate and said 'We beleive in the God of Mussa', even though to do so would mean their death.

Don't tell me they were all taking drugs, from Pharoh to Mussa to all the crowds gathered?


When truth is hurled against falsehood , falsehood perishes. For falsehood by it's very nature is bound to perish!

Originally posted by FamiliarBoyOfGoodFortune

Originally posted by Quazga

Originally posted by FamiliarBoyOfGoodFortune
reply to post by Conspiracy Theorist

 

Greetings...


I read this story a few days ago. What can I say, this is not surprising.

I'm sure towards the last days there will be many people that slander the Prophets. The Prophets who brought guidance to mankind are the best of the human race. To slander them, is to slander God. Mussa (AS) - Moses is one of the 'Ul il Assam' the 5 Greatest of all the Prophets, and is mentioned more than any other Prophet in the Quran. Mussa (AS) is the Prophet who spoke to Allah directly.

I would ask the question, what would be easier to create, a green bush that burns, or a human from a drop of sperm?

I myself have seen many things that people would probably not believe, and I have never drunk or taken drugs. I guess some are going to be in for a very big shock, for we shall all know the truth at the moment of our death.

In this era, we need to be familiar with the real stories of the Prophets and the guidance that they taught as we move to the last days.

When truth is hurled against falsehood, falsehood perishes. For falsehood by it's very nature is bound to perish.

How is this slander? I just don't see how saying that God used a Halucination (which would be the easiest form) to inspire Moses is a slander? It might explain the "How it happened" but it in no way detracts from the message of Moses. Unless of course you really don't believe that God works in mysterious ways.

If you do not know of the character of Mussa (AS) - Moses or the Prophets, then you would not see this as slander. Prophets are Allah's messengers on the earth, when Allah wants to do something, He says 'Be' and it is.

Drugs affect a persons senses, and as such, cause a lot of problems for society like alcohol does. This is not befitting for the character of a Prophet.

When the magicians gathered to do battle with Mussa (AS) who they thought was a magician, they threw their staffs, sticks and ropes and used magic to make the people gathered imagine that they were snakes. When Mussa (AS) threw his staff, through the miracle of Allah it turned into an actual snake and devoured what the magicians threw. As the magicians were the masters of magic at that time (And when a Prophet comes, they challenge the people in what they do best with miracles from Allah), they knew this was no magicians trick, so they fell prostrate and said 'We beleive in the God of Mussa', even though to do so would mean their death.

Don't tell me they were all taking drugs, from Pharoh to Mussa to all the crowds gathered?


When truth is hurled against falsehood , falsehood perishes. For falsehood by it's very nature is bound to perish!

Whoa... no one said they were "ALL ON DRUGS". All I said was "How is it slander to say Moses wrote the 10 commandments while having a hallucination?"

Thats a far cry from doubting anything about God. And to say that it's not befitting I don't think goes very far towards the understanding that, at least in Christianity, Gods messengers are "not of this world". God can find the best messenger in an earthworm feeding on a pile of dung if he wishes.

So back to my original question...

How is this slander?

Originally posted by Quazga
All I said was "How is it slander to say Moses wrote the 10 commandments.....

I knew it. And yet, I got marked down for saying so in my R.E. exam. Boy, have I got a bone to pick with that seminary ....


On the other hand: Heightened and altered perception are part and parcel of religious experience. Ecstasy is an important part, for example, of "finding Jesus". Speaking in tongues is accessing a different intellectualism. Drugs are bad because, as someone said here a few comments ago, tobacco and alcohol companies don't like the competition. (Oh, and because some of them can kill you or leave you a gibbering mental case. Like alcohol, in fact. And tobacco. Anyway .....)

I would like a definitive answer to this question: In creating the world, didn't God create the plants that hallucinogenic drugs are derived from? Isn't it just another case of "nothing is bad until it's used to excess"? Isn't it yet another example of 21st Century civilisation being judgemental without the benefit of experiencing what the other fella had to go through? If I were 40 years in the wilderness, I'd toke up, fer damned sure. I'd party like it was 1999 - BC! Would that invalidate every good thought, every positive impact I had or felt?

No.

The bible offers advice about how to live. Personally, I will continue to act on that advice as my conscience and upbringing dictate, regardless of the sobriety or otherwise of the authors.

[edit on 10/3/08 by hidatsa]