Build my bunker! 3D!!!!!

Hello,

Ive been pondering a concept for a theoretical underground bunker.

So far I'm in the nymph stages. I have rough 3D rendering using low res textures and models just to get things in flow.


Here are the details so far.

-16'x14'x12' with small bathroom facility at the N.W. corner
-Access is by a 17' vertical tunnel and ladder.
-Walls are 5' thick all around.
-Main structure support is by 6 octagonal pillars based at each main intersection on both the side walls and ceilings.

Now what else?

Here are some pics:

reply to post by 168.56.255.255


I posted this link:underground house on another thread...check it out. It may be cheaper to build something like this than the one you want to build and w/ it being spherical it may be a stronger design



[edit on 3-3-2008 by kaferwerks]

Can I store my +5 Magic Sword in your bunk? J/K! It totally reminds me of a game. And, being a geek, I couldn't help it.

Nice 3D images. A great concept. I especially liked how you have a vertical shaft for your entrance. Is there a bathroom in your design? How about a place for food stuff and a generator?

Do you know what is the estimated cost to build such a thing? And do you require a permit from the city to build this?

reply to post by 168.56.255.255


What program is that?
It almost looks like Never Winter Nights

I have thought about a spere design.
I have also noticed that many of the abandoned underground nazi bunkers in Berlin are of a square design and have lasted for decades.

Do you think they could be combined?

a rectangular base with a circular ceiling?

[edit on 3-3-2008 by 168.56.255.255]

reply to post by EvilBat


3DGS. Pro edition.

reply to post by 168.56.255.255


I don't see why not ...the top would then distribute the weight a lot better than just a flat roof. There are plenty of places to look it up on the web. I have been looking into this for a little while. It has a lot of advantages living underground.

Sure the flat roof can be done and is being done but it take more material and reinforcing than the sphere would.

reply to post by guppy


hahah maybe.
Yes, there is a small bathroom in the North West corner of the room.
It will contain a small shower and toilet.

Now heres my dilema.

Power can be of several ways.

1. Main power line tap

Pros: Easy to achieve

Cons: Unreliable in a sit x. Traceable.

2. Gasoline/diesel generator

Pros: Your own controllable supply

Cons: Needs ventilation, noisy, and is best not kept underground, and again supply of gasoline/diesel can be unstable in a sit x.

3. Solar power collectors.

Pros: cheap, can be used in almost any weather. easy to hide.

Cons: I'm not to sure of the bad things but all I know is the panels can cause reflections at the right angle and can be deadly in a situation where people may be looking for you. :/

Is there something I missed?

As far as cost and permit the only thing that may cost is the concrete and iron bars ( i forgot the name of those things) to support the concrete.

this is a small design so i dont know the amount of paperwork to receive a permit to make a hole so and so deep and so and so wide.

Originally posted by guppy
How about a place for food stuff and a generator?

Thats where I need your help.

reply to post by kaferwerks

Something like this?
more rounder?

reply to post by 168.56.255.255


I am no structural engineer but the top now looks like a geodesic dome and that is a very strong design. weigh the pro's w/ the cons and see which is cheaper and easier to build.

I just think w/ 17' of rock and dirt on a flat roof you are going to have problems w/o some serious reinforcement

I made some changes.
Redesigned the support structure.
Added a concrete dome.
I had to remove the entrance shaft for now until I fix the geometry bugs.

What you guys think?

what else do I need?

I hope you got a BIG backhoe or several very strong backs on hand! Have you considered drainage issues? It's definitely a cool design and I hope you luck on getting it done. I'd love to see some pictures of the completed project.

Have you considered using one of those large overseas shipping containers? They can be had for two or three grand used, and would save you a lot of work. You could even wire and plumb it prior to installation. A largish drainage tile could also be used for the access shaft.





[edit on 3/3/08 by LLoyd45]

I have heard alot of people mention shipping containers as an underground shelter. Would a shipping container with its thin metal sides and top survive ground slap from a nuclear blast? I don't know thats why I'm asking.

You can use concrete colvert pipes, i believe they can be as big as 10 foot in diameter. sick a bunck of those together and build a wood floor in it about a foot from the bottom.

Power could be gotten from 12 volt deep cycle batteries and a solar panel(s) on the surface for recharging the batteries. Just have to run a wire up to the top from the shelter during construction. Leave a couple of 12 volt lights on all the time for lighting and extras wired around the rooms for when you need more light. In a totaly dark envirnoment, 1 12 volt light gives of a surprising amount of light.

(IMO)

Air supply can be a major issue. I found a site that tells you how to make a DIY air pump out of every day items
Airpump

Hope it helps

If you are seriously considering building such a thing, I don’t think your schematic will be very effective for a number of reasons. First off, it lacks a footer, which means it will fill with water and have nowhere to drain. You have to prepare the ground to build such a structure so it has the proper drainage, support, and if it’s supposed to be a fallout shelter then also to mitigate the shockwaves and block radiation. Shockwaves multiply in the ground, especially if the ground has a high water table. A contractor would be required to prepare the ground, lay the footer and slab. Of course, that requires all the pertinent permits to build such a structure, and to start digging up the area without hitting underground utilities.

Cinderblock may be ok for the walls if done properly and reinforced by rebar, but making a domed cinderblock roof would most likely a) very weak and b) difficult to build. Domes and arcs are the strongest structures to use for shelters, but the best course is to get something prefab or specifically built as a reinforced dome. There are a number of solutions to this and companies who make the proper prefab components.

Other things I see missing are:
1) An overpressure release valve.
2) Air filtration/ventilation system.
3) CO2 scrubbers.
4) Air conditioning (unless you can deal with the heat and smell for an extended period of time).
5) Water storage or well.
6) Septic tank and drainage field.
7) Decontamination area with showers
8) Emergency escape second door/hatch.
9) Hydraulic rams on both escape doors (in case something comes to rest on top of your structure, like your neighbors house )
10) Secondary dig-out escapes (nothing would be worse then to end up being buried alive in your own shelter).
11) Power supply and possible fuel storage.

As to power, you need it for everything from running the ventilation systems, to running a well pump. You could conceivable do all this by hand, but you cannot count of anyone’s health being good enough in a real emergency to be turning cranks all day long. Solar panels stick out like a sore thumb, and mark your location. They do not provide much power for their size, and are very fragile. A generator is your best bet for at least the first couple of weeks after a disaster of some type, then roll out your secondary sources (which you would keep stored inside your shelter for protection, during the initial disaster).

That is about all I can think of off the top of my head, and should give you something to start with. I’ll add more if it comes to me later. Either way though building a shelter is a big job, is quite expensive, and somewhat hard to keep completely secret.


[edit on 3/3/2008 by defcon5]

I love the idea of the shipping containers, those are quite large and that is pretty cheap, plus adding on another container wouldn't but much of a problem, they are pretty watertight, you would just have to touch em up a bit to get that prefect seal (don't want whatever shipping getting wet in the rain right). Proper and concealed ventilation would be the only technical issue, minus bathroom. Oh and if this is a fallout shelter, making it radiation proof is a must. Does have a clue how you go about that?

Originally posted by Tenebrous they are pretty watertight, you would just have to touch em up a bit to get that prefect seal (don't want whatever shipping getting wet in the rain right).

They are still metal and will corrode after time in the ground. The walls will sweat from condensation, they will leak, and drainage will be a problem with them. If something is completely watertight, then you will have a problem with it lifting out of the ground like an empty in-ground pool.

Originally posted by Tenebrous and if this is a fallout shelter, making it radiation proof is a must. Does have a clue how you go about that?

You do that through packing the right type, amount, and density of earth around it. For fallout shelters you have other problems though. You need to have an over-pressurization and blast valve, which allows it to equalize under the over-pressure and under-pressure of a blast wave and not crush. The air filtration system has to have the right bends in it to trap fallout ash, and filter out any fine particulate that gets past the bends. In addition, you have to guard against the shockwave, which is amplified in soil, especially if the soil is damp or there is a high water table in the area. Failure to do that can basically turn one of your walls into flying shrapnel when the blast wave hits.

One standard design practice is to measure the halving thickness of a material, the thickness that reduces gamma or x-ray radiation by half. When multiple thicknesses are built, the shielding multiplies. For example, a practical shield in a fallout shelter is ten halving-thicknesses of packed dirt. This reduces gamma rays by a factor of 1/1,024, which is 1/2 multiplied by itself ten times. This multiplies out to 90 cm (3 ft) of dirt. Shields that reduce gamma ray intensity by 50% (1/2) include (see Kearney, ref):
9 cm (3.6 inches) of packed soil or
6 cm (2.4 inches) of concrete,
1 cm (0.4 inches) of lead,
0.2 cm (0.08 inches) of depleted uranium,
150 m (500 ft) of air.

In most localities the water table usually is below the depth of excavation needed to build or install a belowground shelter. In some areas, however, after rainy periods the water table may rise until it is only a foot or two below the surface. Then a watertight shelter may float upward through the surrounding saturated soil, unless its weight plus the weight of its covering earth is sufficient to withstand its buoyancy. (In many places swimming pools are kept full to prevent them from being cracked by uneven buoyant forces if the water table rises.)
Dramatic examples of floating shelters were steel blast shelters, guaranteed by contractors to be watertight, that were installed under the lawns of some Houston, Texas homes shortly after the Cuban Missile Crisis. When the water table rose after heavy rains, these shelters came up to the surface like giant mushrooms, to the frustrated dismay of their owners and the satisfaction of anti-defense newspaper feature writers.

Here is a good place to start: Nuclear War Survival Skills

4 vitial questions you need to address before ANYTHING else

1 - what exactly do you hope to survive

2 - how long do you want it to protect you

3 - what is your budget

it is no good having a pipe dream if you cannot afford to build it

4 [ really 1 b ] how overt / covert do you want it to be

on the question of roof design

domed roofs look nice in churches

but they are crapp for bunkers

they are far harder / more expensive to build

they are very volume inefficient

a domed roof structure is taller than flat roofs - for a given living area with a useable headroom

if you really want strength - use a seperate carapace like this :



the void under the carapace should ideally be filled with loose rubble - its least condctive to shock wave / blast

but the cost of this design is prohibitive