The Gullibility of Evolutionists

For everyone who believes in religion answer me these questions: if humans were created in the image of "someone" else, then why does 98% of our dna match up with chimps? Did they use the chimps dna to fill in the blank or something? Did this huge power, who is supposed to be utterly the most intelligent being in the universe just decide to make us look so much like another being on our planet(since we also share about 98% bone structure)? Or is it such a far fetched idea that we came from a prehistoric chimp race that may have branched away from the other chimps and evolved? Geez I could do anit-creationist seminars.

[edit on 4-3-2008 by Lokey13]

reply to post by Lokey13

I guess it was a partnership that didn't quite work out.

Genesis 2:19

Now the LORD God had formed out of the ground all the beasts of the field and all the birds of the air. He brought them to the man to see what he would name them....But for Adam no suitable helper was found.

If I showed you two similar cars would you A. Talk about how messed up it was that they were similar or B. Remark that they must have been made from the same company since they look so much alike.

If anything this shows that the same creator made both men and monkeys. This would hardly be evidence against creationsism

Originally posted by JPhish
The moment you claim that your beliefs are superior to someone else's, your argument is moot.

No one is "believing" in evolution. We look at the model, learn the vastness of predictions + experiments and accept the model is correct.
The alternative to evolution is this model:
God + finger snap for all offspring of all species, bacteria included = directed genetic change.

I have seen no evidence for the alternative model.

Everyone has a biased blinde spot. Including myself. Some people's are smaller than others. I try my best to efface my preconceived notions of the world when trying to deliberate a question.

Fail. The statement of that first sentence is a preconceived notion. So is the third.

According to my teacher, i had a brilliant understanding of biology. but i'll tell you, he was bewildered when he discovered his most enthusiastic student didn't even believe in his craft. Taking his course is one of the main things that made me doubt the credibility of evolution as it is defined today.

Give me one example that proves an alternative model. One. Even AN alternative model that isn't just "magic".

But it has far too many holes in it at the moment for it's advocates to be placing it juxtapose to creationism.

Again, show me any alternative model sans magic.

Not necessarily because creationsim is right . . . but evolutionists should take more of an intellectually humble stance on the subject; until their own scientific checks and balances, according to their own scientific method can attest to their claims with more veracity than the religious communities' faith can.

You misunderstand science completely. You would fail my class no matter how accurate your recall was (by fail I mean fail to move on to further study e.g. postgrad research or honours).
Science is based on the concept that given a testable model, you can make predictions about the past, present and future. Evolution has had 50 years of research prove it to a point where it is one of the most tested model's in history. Molecular biology has taken this level of proof to an extreme degree, as given the volume of data we have, and that NONE of it refutes evolution or supports an alternative model, we are in a quandry here.

The problem is that people who claim to understand biology yet clearly don't understand aren't taken seriously by scientists. I'm sorry, it's that simple! They make obscure claims or references to debunked/rubbish research, and simply are holding on to their beliefs rather than seeing what is there before their eyes: evolution is a logical, thoroughly tested, working model of genetic progress.

// sufu sci

Hahahaha your reply was laughable, your comparing a man-made item with a living organism; geez we don't completely understand how cars work or anything right? So what your saying is that God made us look so much like chimps because he made chimps too. Hmm so why don't we look like birds, or fish, or dogs, or cats? We show amazing similarities with one animal, not many like your statement would lead too(Such as all cars look the same etc.). But I'll run with your car idea, so you have two cars side by side on is american one is japanese, one has a 6 cylidiner inline engine the other has a completely different rotary engine, the outsides may look the same but the insides are different. Now use this little trait with humans and chimps, we look quite similar on the outside and you pop the hood and look we share 98% of the same organ complex; now thats gonna make me think a little bit more. I just would like "people" to stop puting themselves above all other creation like were a special case or something, I'll just have to wait till life becomes known as a constant in the universe. Till then I'll have a bunch of arrogant blind sheep taking the same bus over the cliff and telling me to do the same. The most intelligent being in the universe made us in the image of an animal that like to throw poo at one another, seems if this was such an intelligent choice he would have made a different pick. Until someone can show me evidence supporting the fact that the 2% we don't share with chimps is so completely radical that we could not be cousins; all creationists will remain to be very very very very very blindly wrong.

Originally posted by weedwhacker
There are so many personal attacks, and personal grudges being spewed, no one has managed, or bothered, to see what I wrote.

Here's a thread derailer!! Religion is a choce...sexuality is not!

Discuss!!

Oh Baloney! Look if someone wants to have sex with Kids or Dogs or some dudes hairy anus,, IN EVERY CASE NO MATTER WHICH ONE OF THOSE TRIPS YOUR TRIGGER,, You Choose it and the consequences.

If what you are saying is allowed to be taken serious, then we would have a backlog of sex related cases using that as justification for not being responsible for everything from Rape to Abortion being Government Subsidized. No one puts a gun to your head to have sex and when they do they call it sexual assault.

Hell I can see the ACLU using that as a premise to get the perp off the hook for rape saying he isn't responsible for his twisted sexuality.

Hey Don't kid yourself, they have already taken on the rights for Man boy love as the Legal bitches for Nambla.

Also another org popular with Atheists but they say they don't do their sex acts in the name of Atheism LMAO.

I don't care who you are Pedophile Priest or Pedophile Atheist.

Saying it's Gods will or uising Evolution to lie and say NO GOD KID so No sin no foul.

Sexuality is an Urge a lust of the flesh an itch you want to scratch.
Unlike the sympathy for needing food and water to survive The only time your life depends on sexuality is when you are a hooker or the victim of sexual assault. It won't kill ya to say no to it but it has killed many whose selfish desires or ignorance just had to be put above the very real and very serious responsibility morality and health ramifications of Sexuality from aborted children (No I call em what they are and they ain't a "fetus" Atheist) From Murder Rape and HIV Aids, Un-wanted Pregnancy, Rape from un-protected sex to carrying out the sexual conquests of Ted Bundy and Jeffery Dahmer who discarded people like he did the magazine when he was done using that.

- Con

lets view the DNA as a scripting language.
common to all programmers that you ca write a 1000 line code that dose very well, an you can write a 500 line code that dose better. so if the chimps DNA is a programing language than we could say that our DNA is just a slight expansion of the same language. as it needs to be expanded to allow more complex manipulation.
the fact is that the code is totally different. a chimp is one program, we are one better (possible OOP ).
if we take our code we find it that some work better than others (things like: yr stupid i'm not (dont take it literally)).
the foundation of the code is the same for many of us but entirely different from our monkey bros. in fact if you observed there is no thing or stuff that we found that can take up to the deepness of abstraction that we trow up daily (like evolution).

even the thinking process is different. animals learn by experience, we experience by learning. create the axioma and then we'll find out if its true or not. mathematics is the one science whose axiomas stand as a rock. unbeatable, because of its nature. it has an infinite way to define infinite stuffs.

evolutionism or creationism is a science whose axiomas are based upon something like "red is in fact blue, and never the other way around". but the fact may be that "red is never blue and the order dose not matter"

so we absolutely dont know. it all may hit a brick wall like quantumphysics (they almost ran out of names for the particles).

reply to post by ImaginaryReality1984


Thank you for the response, but I'd rather hear what the people who subscribe to ID have to say.

Quoting myself again in case people missed it:

Originally posted by Beachcoma
Okay, so if ID is a science, what are the predictions that it makes? Where are the lab reports?

Again, serious question. They don't teach any of this where I'm from.

reply to post by Beachcoma


I can say, that the strata from the Great Flood(Found WORLDWIDE)
Will produce fossils of animals That died from drowning or suffocation from sediment!
Evidence for the Flood

Oceanographers took core samples of sediments in the Gulf of Mexico that included fossils shells from one-celled plankton called foraminifera and made an interesting discovery. They discovered that at locations in the core samples that represent thousands of years ago, the salinity in the water was suddenly reduced based upon the shells locked-in permanent record of the conditions. This reduction in salinity could only be caused by a huge fresh water deluge.

There is much archaeological evidence confirming the Flood of Noah. There is a tablet in Babylon on which one of the Babylonian kings mentions his enjoyment in reading the writings of those who lived before the Flood. Another Babylonian tablet gives an interesting confirmation. Noah was the tenth generation from Adam according to the Bible, and this Babylonian tablet names the ten kings of Babylon who lived before the Flood. Another tablet names all the kings of Babylon, and after the first ten there are the words: “The Deluge came up. . .”

Also, The Antichrist WILL come, exactly and according to all descriptions laid out in the Bible.

[edit on 4-3-2008 by Clearskies]

reply to post by encoder


From what you said the Human and Chimp DNA sequence should show no similarities but we share 98% of the same distinct code. It isn't as you stated that we are a longer program and more complex in that view, in all actuality we are a shorter program with less baggage. As i stated before find me the radical difference between the 2% we don't share, chimps have been proven to learn and adapt to their surroundings; key word being "learn" and they also have been proven to hold memory even when not associated with the, give a treat get a response teaching method. All you did was make me read a bunch of gramatical errors, get some "facts"; I know something religious buffs love to hear, and maybe I'll humor another response.

Originally posted by Lokey13
The most intelligent being in the universe made us in the image of an animal that like to throw poo at one another,

Or, maybe the most intelligent being in the univers made monkeys like humans. That's quite a compliment isn't it? I mean for the monkeys.

If men really evolved from apes, and have actually been around for 100,000 years or more, then why are we just now populating the entire western hemisphere of this planet? Why not 20,000 years ago? Why are we just now discovering flight, oil, cars, nuclear energy? What would have held us back 10,000 years ago from doing the same thing?

No, all evidence points towards the facts that men are relatively new to this planet. Evolutionist blindly ignore the fact that we have gone from riding horses, to visiting the moon in less than 100 years. That is evidence you can study and observe. Where are the ancient cities of steel? What held us back for so long? Perhaps we haven't been here that long after all. What else explains the supposed 100,000 years of living in caves as we're taught?

Clearly humans have taken a fantastic jump that not even evolution can account for. If you won't subscribe to the thought that there might be a God, could you at least look at the evidence before you. We're being played with and tweaked. The belief that we just "evolved" to make rockets that can reach the moon or orbit the sun is complete ignorance and denial. Why haven't monkeys even started making fire yet?

reply to post by Clearskies


Just one problem with your post, it talks alot about Babylon; could you tell me where exactly Babylon was located and show me these Babylonian tablets? Since evidence of the city of Babylon has never been discovered and some people view Babylon as just being an early Egypt, I'm going to have to pull out the man made the article card just to get some people to read it. An since there is also no proof of these babylonian kings, since there are no records of babylon actually existing I'd like to see those as well. An I would appreciate no religious comments but only scientific fact, thanks.

Originally posted by encoder
lets view the DNA as a scripting language.

Please don't. DNA has really no similarities. It is more like lisp macros.

so if the chimps DNA is a programing language than we could say that our DNA is just a slight expansion of the same language. as it needs to be expanded to allow more complex manipulation.

We could but it would be a bad example. The language wasn't extended.

the fact is that the code is totally different. a chimp is one program, we are one better (possible OOP

).

Umm nooooooo.... Much more like functional languages.

if we take our code we find it that some work better than others (things like: yr stupid i'm not (dont take it literally)).
the foundation of the code is the same for many of us but entirely different from our monkey bros.

We have a common ancestor. You arent a monkeys uncle no matter what the popular saying.

so we absolutely dont know. it all may hit a brick wall like quantumphysics (they almost ran out of names for the particles).

We do know. Evolution is irrefutable. Evolution says nothing of creation. Big-bang != evolution. Evolution is a model of how genetic change occurs. It's that simple.

reply to post by Clearskies


That doesn't answer my questions at all. Not only that, it contradicts what Bigwhammy said earlier about ID not being religious in nature on page 13.

Regardless, on the flood issue, you don't need to convince me. I do believe there was a flood. I even posted links on page one of this thread.

Originally posted by Clearskies
reply to post by Beachcoma

 

I can say, that the strata from the Great Flood(Found WORLDWIDE)
Will produce fossils of animals That died from drowning or suffocation from sediment!
Evidence for the Flood

Oceanographers took core samples of sediments in the Gulf of Mexico that included fossils shells from one-celled plankton called foraminifera and made an interesting discovery. They discovered that at locations in the core samples that represent thousands of years ago, the salinity in the water was suddenly reduced based upon the shells locked-in permanent record of the conditions. This reduction in salinity could only be caused by a huge fresh water deluge.

There is much archaeological evidence confirming the Flood of Noah. There is a tablet in Babylon on which one of the Babylonian kings mentions his enjoyment in reading the writings of those who lived before the Flood. Another Babylonian tablet gives an interesting confirmation. Noah was the tenth generation from Adam according to the Bible, and this Babylonian tablet names the ten kings of Babylon who lived before the Flood. Another tablet names all the kings of Babylon, and after the first ten there are the words: “The Deluge came up. . .”

Also, The Antichrist WILL come, exactly and according to all descriptions laid out in the Bible.

[edit on 4-3-2008 by Clearskies]

may it be!

but there are many lines in the bible witch can be interpreted as a cosmic event, inf i use this way of thinking the flood might be a high radiation band across the galaxy, than the "great flood theory" is not so far fetched afterall. and in fact leaves both theories wrong in conception, time and medium.

Originally posted by Lokey13
The most intelligent being in the universe made us in the image of an animal that like to throw poo at one another, seems if this was such an intelligent choice he would have made a different pick. Until someone can show me evidence supporting the fact that the 2% we don't share with chimps is so completely radical that we could not be cousins; all creationists will remain to be very very very very very blindly wrong

Well isn't it YOU that said I just would like "people" to stop puting themselves above all other creation like were a special case or something",

Yet when you go to the Zoo you don't see Humans in there do ya? as a matter of fact WE are so above all the other creations that you would think the survival of the fittest would be proven in Hunting.

Yet Only MAN can get out his High Powered Rifle with its Laser Scope using his infra red and night vision to Off a Deer. Hell we can do that with an ELEPHANT!

In fact we are the reason for so many extinctions that when The lord gave Noah the news of our new in charge responsibility where NOW WE are not only to have dominian over all the creatures of the earth but God warned that includes saving them from US.

We are the only creatures that have survived in any climate without any evolutionary adaptations needed. When we needed assistance we enlisted the service of animals for Dog sleds Horse Drawn Carriage etc.

No other animal HAS the capability to save a species or wipe one out. It is interesting that God made sure we knew of just such an eventuality and just such a conversation like this with those who are too blind to see whats so obvious you would have to be an Atheist to deny it.

Back when this was told to Adam and Eve We were the TOP of the food chain and yet a Chimpanzee could kill any man with ease.

We didn't have any mutations lately ? did we?

We are the top of the food chain because

God thought that made a lot of sense

Guess it's a good thing he knows

Better then You or I

Not too mention

Darwin



- Con

reply to post by dbates


Geez another laughable post, where do you get these hideous comparisons. #1 the society of humans has advanced so greatly in the last 100 years do to the discovery of electricity!!!! Ever dawn on you that the human brain 10,000 years ago wasn't the human brain of today? The invention that kept us alive was fire, the invention that made us connected was roads, and the invention that has made us prosper is electricity. We have been very fortunate to have discovered a major item in the past 200 years otherwise we'd all still be in the dark and u'd still be burning witches. Humans have had a very long time to evolve and the past 100 years has been such a hasty evolution do to as I've stated now three times electricity. An if chimps were created in our image then why were they alive before we were?

reply to post by Lokey13

Humans and chimps ARE NOT related. Darwinism Refuted

If a slightly wider study is made of this subject, it can be seen that the DNA of much more surprising creatures resembles that of man. One of these similarities is between man and worms of the nematode phylum. For example, genetic analyses published in New Scientist have revealed that "nearly 75% of human genes have some counterpart in nematodes-millimeter-long soil-dwelling worms."292 This definitely does not mean that there is only a 25% difference between man and these worms! According to the family tree made by evolutionists, the Chordata phylum, in which man is included, and the Nematoda phylum were different to each other even 530 million years ago.

This situation clearly reveals that the similarity between the DNA strands of these two different categories of life is no evidence for the claim that these creatures evolved from a common ancestor.
THE MYTH OF HUMAN-CHIMP SIMILARITY IS DEAD

For a very long time, the evolutionist choir had been propagating the unsubstantiated thesis that there is very little genetic difference between humans and chimps. In every piece of evolutionist literature you could read sentences like "we are 99 percent equal to chimps" or "there is only 1 percent of DNA that makes us human." Although no conclusive comparison between human and chimp genomes has been made, Darwinist ideology led them to assume that there is very little difference between the two species.

A study in October 2002 revealed that the evolutionist propaganda on this issue, like many others, is completely false. Humans and chimps are not "99% similar" as the evolutionist fairy tale would have it. Genetic similarity turns out to be less than 95%. A news story reported by CNN.com, entitled "Humans, chimps more different than thought," reports the following:

Where did the “97% similarity” come from then? It was inferred from a fairly crude technique called DNA hybridization where small parts of human DNA are split into single strands and allowed to re-form double strands (duplex) with chimp DNA [2]. However, there are various reasons why DNA does or does not hybridize, only one of which is degree of similarity (homology) [3]. Consequently, this somewhat arbitrary figure is not used by those working in molecular homology (other parameters, derived from the shape of the “melting” curve, are used). Why has the 97% figure been popularized then? One can only guess that it served the purpose of evolutionary indoctrination of the scientifically illiterate.

Interestingly, the original papers did not contain the basic data and the reader had to accept the interpretation of the data “on faith.” Sarich et al. [4] obtained the original data and used them in their discussion of which parameters should be used in homology studies [5]. Sarich discovered considerable sloppiness in Sibley and Ahlquist's generation of their data as well as their statistical analysis. Upon inspecting the data, I discovered that, even if everything else was above criticism, the 97% figure came from making a very basic statistical error - averaging two figures without taking into account differences in the number of observations contributing to each figure. When a proper mean is calculated it is 96.2%, not 97%. However, there is no true replication in the data, so no confidence can be attached to the figures published by Sibley and Ahlquist.

Originally posted by Lokey13

From what you said the Human and Chimp DNA sequence should show no similarities but we share 98% of the same distinct code. It isn't as you stated that we are a longer program and more complex in that view, in all actuality we are a shorter program with less baggage. As i stated before find me the radical difference between the 2% we don't share,

chimps have been proven to learn and adapt to their surroundings; key word being "learn" and they also have been proven to hold memory even when not associated with the, give a treat get a response teaching method.

All you did was make me read a bunch of gramatical errors, get some "facts"; I know something religious buffs love to hear, and maybe I'll humor another response.

so in fact you are saying that the chimps are almost as able as men?
than man is just a bit more able than chimps.

(sorry, it might offend you) but maybe you. the fact that is that this is not the fact, at least i am way more capable to explore and change my surroundings.

AND I AM NOT RELIGIOUS !!!

Well I guess that 18 pges 12 flags of religious bickering and preaching is turning this forum into ca ca and nobody cares.

What a shame.

reply to post by Conspiriology


Geez your post was a little bit better written but still filled with no facts, just coincidences that make us better. From what we have seen through human history and also animal history dating back to even the dinosaurs; is that a being with immense power will use their power. Such as one man fighting for power over another or One lion fighting to become leader of the pride. The biggest difference between humans and animals is that we are capible of more advanced thought. We have evolved to this point. We know right and wrong but then again so does my dog, how can an animal have compassion if only humans are meant too? Your stating alot of things that refer to humans as being better cause we can put animals in cages and things like that, that doesn't make us better it just shows you that the abuse of power will never die from human to insect. We do cause we can, just as any animal does what it can to survive. Humans just have a bit more backing them, I just wish the dinosaurs were never whiped out then I wouldn't have to explain why we evolved or had the chance too cause we wouldnt be here.