what happens to the soul when a person commits suicide.

Originally posted by h3akalee
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

Maybe i have more idea than most ?

I have first hand experiance of the damage someone taking there life can have on those left behind.

There are still problem's to come in the future from this pure selfish act.

That is all i will say.

I will not argue the case with you my point's and feeling's were made very clear and i stick by them.

If you kill yourself you are a selfish coward that is all.

Take care.

Regards
Lee

I suspected as much Lee. I was working on my post when you posted this. Its ok to feel the way you do. A lot of people who lose someone they love to suicide do, and you might not feel that way forever. I am so sorry you have to go through this. It sucks worse than anything.





[edit on 1-3-2008 by Illusionsaregrander]

reply to post by h3akalee

Originally posted by h3akalee
reply to post by spacevisitor

 

Maybe i have more idea than most ?

I have first hand experience of the damage someone taking there life can have on those left behind.

h3akalee, I understand now that you have personally lost an very important person in your live 9 year's ago, and by means of what we are talking.
So, now I understand your view on it much better.
I hope you will believe me when I say to you that I am very sorry for that loss.
I really have no words for you, that can even in a small way take away your pain.
But I can wish you all the strength needed to go further with your live and wish you all the best.

Spacevisitor.

It's a very complicated thing the loss was not someone from my family but i cant go into detail i dont feel at ease saying it out in the open.

I am sorry if i come of as very cold but it is maybe the anger inside me.

I will gladly explain my situation if anyone ask's me to do so by U2U.

Maybe then you can understand my personal feeling's on this subject.

Again understand i am not a cold person in general only some thing's in life make me cold.

If anyone is considering taking there own life and reading these post's i beg you not to do it !

Take care.

Regards
Lee




[edit on 1-3-2008 by h3akalee]

reply to post by h3akalee


h3akalee, I really respect and understand your saying here.
Only if you feel the need yourself, you can U2U me whenever you want.
An know, that some remark you make here has more meaning to me then you think, thanks.

Take care.

Originally posted by jdposey
reply to post by ben91069

 

Ben91069
Good, Lord, I hope you never work for a suicide crisis hotline!


[edit on 1-3-2008 by jdposey]

I realize that suicide is a touchy subject, and I would not offer up services as council for someone suicidal. To each their own, but this is an internet forum and we can't just keep quiet about some things just because we don't think we ought to talk about them honestly.

Death and suicide has been used as a tool and grip over people since the beginning of man, through God, and religion that it isn't even funny. People do not need to live in fear of anything if they can find a way out, that's my belief. By applying guilt to someone that it will carry over after their gone by hurting others is like placing salt in a wound and saying "STFU" and take it like a man.

It's terrible to use devices to keep people in bondage.

reply to post by h3akalee


Just wanted to also apologize to you if I came on harsh in my previous post. I did not want to diminish your feelings about any loss you've had, but that the human nature itself is what is terrible. We are all in that same position one day are we not?

Anyway, I will leave it at that.

Originally posted by ben91069

People do not need to live in fear of anything if they can find a way out, that's my belief. By applying guilt to someone that it will carry over after their gone by hurting others is like placing salt in a wound and saying "STFU" and take it like a man.

It's terrible to use devices to keep people in bondage.

I know personally I would never say to someone who felt that kind of despair "take it like a man." (or woman) What I would say is; "Can we see, can we look and see if there isnt some other way to make this better?" I think a lot of suicidal people dont reach out. They dont let other people know whats wrong. My brother didnt. He never said anything, and he left no note. In retrospect, he dropped hints, he told me once " I would be a good bet to take life insurance on." But I just laughed because he was always getting hurt mountain biking. I thought he was talking about that. I never for a minute thought he was suicidal. I would have done anything to help him. But he never told me how he felt.

One thing you dont seem to really get is that the loved ones of the person who commits suicide are left in bondage, too. You say it isnt fair to do that to someone, leave them that way, that it is terrible, well, that is the point. The people left behind are not only in awful pain, but they have no "way out." Once you feel what it feels like to have someone you love kill themselves, you cannot even for a second imagine doing that to someone else.

I dont think anyone trying to apply guilt. I personally am just saying how it was from the other end. I love my brother, and I know he would never have done it if he had known what it would do to me. Or to everyone else. I know he just got himself into a mental state where he thought he had no other way out. He wasnt a mean person at all. I just wish, with my whole heart, he had told me what was going on in there. I would have done anything to help him. Maybe it wouldnt have worked, but maybe it would have. That is the worst thing to me, I just will never know if I could have done anything different. If I could have helped. I think I will wonder that as long as I live.

Originally posted by thecry
I'm curious what happens to the soul when a person commits suicide.From what I heard it's a sin according to the bible but does it say exactly what God does to the soul?

From my understanding you have to spend the rest of you spirit life rubbing down George Bush after you complete you 200+ years of purgatory, and a spirit life is about 25,000 millenniums.

Originally posted by Illusionsaregrander

I dont think anyone trying to apply guilt. I personally am just saying how it was from the other end. I love my brother, and I know he would never have done it if he had known what it would do to me. Or to everyone else. I know he just got himself into a mental state where he thought he had no other way out. He wasnt a mean person at all. I just wish, with my whole heart, he had told me what was going on in there. I would have done anything to help him. Maybe it wouldnt have worked, but maybe it would have. That is the worst thing to me, I just will never know if I could have done anything different. If I could have helped. I think I will wonder that as long as I live.

Let me break this down for you politely, and I hope you understand. Your last 6 sentences are all about you and what you could have done, because you felt guilty for not having done something. You see, this is the problem with this point on the suicide issue. For those left behind, they feel guilty yet in many cases (not all) the suicidal person is the one who feels the need to escape and everyone around them are the ones so hung up on themselves that they are hoping something bad doesn't happen to make them feel bad, instead of actually doing the stuff they should have done in the first place. I am sorry to have to say it this way, but it is for the most part true.

It is no different than a loved one passing and the family says, "I wish I had that one last moment to tell them I loved them or whatnot". The guilt is not the person leaving the world behinds fault, it is those left behind trying to blame them for it, when they wouldn't have done anything otherwise if the guy was still alive.

This is why Columbine happened, by the way. Two kids who knew that if they expressed themselves, the normal complacency that is prevalent would quickly ignore anything they had to say or wanted to get off their chest.

Case in point, I tried to commit suicide once. It had nothing to do with eliminating my pain or suffering, but was a psychotic episode. The reasons have nothing really to do with it. Obviously it was not successful, but whenever I get those same notions again and want to talk about them, people ignore you, ban you, eliminate your threads, discount what you are saying, etc, etc. They do not want to actually hear what one thinks, but want a quick solution to quickly sweep in under a rug so they don't have to do the hard work and think about something.

Sorry, it isn't the suicidal people that are in bad shape, it's those that try to blame them for their own guilt who are the ones who always had the problem to begin with. The 3rd secret of Fatima probably says something close to this, but of course that would not make for a good turnout at the pulpit and it would deny churches their money.

I was just curious is all....btw not to get way off my own topic but in your opinion is hell a pemanent place or is it a place to burn for as much as you sined and then once your punishment has been fulfilled you cease to exist?

reply to post by thecry


As far as I can tell, someone already paid the price for you so you wouldn't have to worry about that, unless of course you don't really believe that.

reply to post by thecry


Well regardless of what anybody tells you here, when it comes to the so call hell is nothing but a myth created by the church to keep the masses in control and Dependant on salvation for their own selfish reasons.

Originally posted by marg6043
reply to post by thecry

 

Well regardless of what anybody tells you here, when it comes to the so call hell is nothing but a myth created by the church to keep the masses in control and Dependant on salvation for their own selfish reasons.

Well said. As I once said, if you believe in Hell & Judgment, you have an abusive Father.

Originally posted by marg6043
Well regardless of what anybody tells you here, when it comes to the so call hell is nothing but a myth created by the church to keep the masses in control and Dependant on salvation for their own selfish reasons.

marg6043, I fully agree with your view on the so called “existing Hell”.
It is indeed exactly for the reasons you say, no doubt about that.

The fact is, that there are many people on this Earth who indeed live in a kind of “Hell”, but that “Hell” is created only by Humans.

[edit on 2/3/08 by spacevisitor]

Yes I agree that there is a lot of pain and suffering left behind to the family members, acquanitances etc But sometimes the emotional pain even after seeking help from doctors is not enough. I am talking about situational circumstances - the person is very lonely and isolated, has lost their entire way of life etc.

I do not believe in a vengeful God - I believe the soul is met on the Other Side counselled and given a second chance. God loves all. And to that end, H e will see to it that the family members left behind would be taken care of. The suicidal person is the one who is in soooo much pain and having exercised all options feels that he/shemust break their contract with God and feel LOVE again.

This is called a lost soul and you either go straight to hell or you (the soul) stay in the area of death. Most people that kill themself do it for attention reasons and dispair. Their soul remains lost and confused feeling that it has incompleted the journey in life so it refuses to move on. This is what you call a ghost.

A spirit is a soul that is free to move from heaven to this world and is happy with itself and the world around it. It has accepted the passing!

Of course this is what many Psychics believe, but just like in Religion this is just belief and not based on real hard evidence.

[edit on 23-8-2008 by MrMysticism]

several things to consider....

1
the wages sin pays is death. so theres nothing in the bible that makes suicide a particularly damning sin. if jesus died for our sins, suicide would be included.

2
god knows us better than we know ourselves. if suicide is the product of an unhealthy mind, or is the result of unbearable pain. then im 100% positive that god would take those factors into consideration.

i mean i understand how it is a sin, its showing god that you dont appreciate the gift of life that he's given you, but sometimes thats hard to see when times get rough.

another thing to note is that suicide isnt mentioned too much in the bible, so it may be an intentional "grey area", meaning it is particularly case by case. otherwise im sure god would have said something solid about it.

reply to post by miriam0566

1 the wages sin pays is death. so theres nothing in the bible that makes suicide a particularly damning sin. if jesus died for our sins, suicide would be included.

I hope I get this right.
From what I remember, there are two versions of the death of king Ahab. One in Kings and one in Chronicles. In one he falls on his own sword and in the other, he is killed by the enemy.
It is apparently not worth making a big distinction about. One is about as equal as the other and suicide may have been better than what would have happened, Either way he would have ended up being killed. So, he did die as a result of enemy action in battle. Under the circumstances, it was considered acceptable behavior and not especially remarkable.

Lee,

Whether you believe this or not I can sympathize more than you know. In my case a very close family member took their own life. Then not long after a dear friend of mine who was raped took her life. I'd talked to her for days upn in Michigan shortly after it happened. She assured me things were ok and that despite her pain she would live on. I left for a day or two because I had to get back to work or risk loss of job. Two days later she killed herself.

Now I agree that it is incredibly painful. There isn't too many days that go by I don't think about both of them and believe me when I say I will never pry about your personal experience. Some people are far more open than others and I am in no way saying it makes me any better than you. If anything, hell who knows maybe it is a crutch of mine that I am the ole truthful tourettes. It works for me though. I am going to begin working on Masters in Psychology to work with teens and children who have been sexually or physically abused. I want to try and stop the pain before it goes too far but there are a few things I have had to swallow in the past few years before I begin allowing myself to work with them.

1. I WILL probably lose a patient some day to suicide. I certainly hope not and Goddess knows I will try all I can to prevent it but it probably will happen.

2. The guilt I will inevitably feel will be awful. It will drag me down

3. I wil arise from that guilt as quick as I can to help others in that patient's situation. It is the day I can no longer arise from that guilt that I will hang up my certification and walk away because I am of no more use to them.

4. Finally the most important. I will never know these patients outside of the context of our professional relationship and what the decide to release to me.

It is number four that I want to delve into further. Now I am currently aware of your predicament and you loss. I am awfully sorry so I will choose my words carefully and place them on this post as delicately as possible.

I find myself in this awfully strange fork in the road sometimes. I have read about and experienced suicide in the ranks of my own personal relationships. I find that after it happens I am angry at them and I feel it was by far the most selfish act possible. On the other hand how can I know them?

I am sure there are several people amongst us who have felt pain and have been on the verge of suicide. I am not asking for those people to take a stand but I will myself. I have been there and it opened up a few thoughts to me. When I sat there downing valium I thought to myself this is the only way to make the pain end. I slept an almost eternal sleep but was revived with a stomach pump and other life saving measures. Now because of this act and the subsequent addiction to pain killers I had I had done some irrepairable damage to my body. I suffer from IBS (though I must admit I often eat like an idiot so that doesn't help), constant gastric problems, headaches, and a host of other issues that in certain days make my life miserable. On top of that I used to lie to get steroid shots and in my clarity I found several years ago I realize the steroids had alot to do with the degeration of several ligaments and tendons. I have a daily reminder of my own attempted actions. I still participate alot in sports. I run and have been riding horses most of my life.

I've had a look on both sides of this discussion and I will STILL respect how you feel after you read this if you believe it is selfish. I am only throwing out my persepctive.

Calling it selfish is a bit rough for me. I was saved but in reality I did commit suicide. I performed the action and it killed me save for the fact the my brother found me and that the doctor helped me live again but if you think about it I did kill myself. I wasn't asking to be rescued instead I wanted to die. Now of course I am eccstatic to live again. I have the most endearing wife I could hope for. I have a new horse being delivered to me on Wednesday to arrive Thursday. I have a faith I am proud of and so many things to live for. I am grateful for the coincidence that occured by my brother coming home early.

The problem I have is calling it selfish. How do we truly know their pain is curable? How do we know it isn't completely hopeless to them? Calling it selfish in my opinion is selfish in and of itself and I know this because I called both my friend and that family member the same thing. I learned however that it isn't my choice to judge what they did. I have been on the brink of death at my own hands and even I cannot tell them they were selfish because no matter what my pain was to drive me where I almost went, I am not them and their pain is as unique as my new-found joy is to me.

Again I have a great deal of respect for you and always will. Even if you were to tell me I am full of you-know-what and attack me for beliefs (which I am sure you wouldn't) I still will. I am not a judge of character and most of all I am not a judge of any life except my own. Their pain is their's and though I will try to save anyone's life who is threatened I can never find it in me to call them selfish because in the end I truly don't know what is in their minds.

Thank you for listening

With great respect,

Daniel

I just recently had my bestfriend who was like a brother to me commit suicide and I would just like to say something to those who are saying that they lose all respect for that person as soon as they do somthing like that.
How can you judge a person like that? The only thing that can judge the human soul is god. Are you in a way being selfish because you yourself cannot cope with the fact that that person took there life and left you here on earth? I personally do not see my friend as being selfish, if anything I am very disapointed in the choice that he made but that does not make him anyless of a person. Regardless of the way a person dies if you are a true friend or family member you will remember them for who and what they are and celebrate the life that they did carry out. I cannot beleive that someone can actually judge someone for there actions of suicide, were you in there exact same situation at some point in your life that you could have seen and felt what they were going through and would you have made the same decision?

I beleive that the soul does not get damned to hell but it comes back to repeat it's mistakes to try and grow spiritually, the soul wants to learn. I beleive strongly that the soul continously wants to learn just by looking at the human race, we are constantly evolving and trying to improve our suroundings and way of life, we constantly learn it's just like the saying you learn something new everyday.