Ask a Christian (even about the paranormal)

Originally posted by dave420
This is a honest question - I don't mean any offense:

It would be a rare thing for me to get offended here. No one knows me personally well enough to make a personal attack .

Originally posted by dave420
are you quite impressionable when it comes to believing things with no supporting evidence?

No. My skepticism has cost me dearly, though must say once proof is obtained, it is long lasting and without dispute.

Originally posted by dave420
Is it because you find comfort in it being true, and it not being true would do you some emotional harm?

The assumption here is that the truth is comforting. Often times, it isn't. God, our Creator, exists yet there is suffering, pain, death, injustice, and evil. Assuming this to be true, would you find that discomforting? I do. When we die, we sit before the throne of God. We see all that we've done wrong and how little we've done right. Every wrong thought, every wrong word, every wrong action. Then they are judged. He then casts many of us people into an eternal fire. Does this not seem unsettling?

Originally posted by dave420
Also, why don't you believe in any of the countless millions of other deities praised around the world?

I was willing, they didn't show.

Originally posted by dave420
I mean, there's as much evidence for those guys being legit as there is for JC...

Many people may feel this way. Had I not seen on my own, experienced on my own, I seriously doubt I would believe. It's like coming out of an amusement park where people are standing there telling you rollercoasters do not exist. Describe them all you want, they'll not believe you until they go inside, get a ticket and get on-board. Many Christians are like those who just got off and are now talking about the experience. Is it any wonder they're excited? I like rollercoasters.

Likewise, there are many people who can believe in God without seeing any evidence whatsoever. They know there are rollercoasters because they have read about it, seen pictures, and talked to those who have ridden on them. Rollercoasters exist to them, though they've never been on one. I admire and respect that much faith because in the area I'm lacking that powerful of a tool.

[edit on 6-3-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God

The assumption here is that the truth is comforting. Often times, it isn't. God, our Creator, exists yet there is suffering, pain, death, injustice, and evil. Assuming this to be true, would you find that discomforting? I do. When we die, we sit before the throne of God. We see all that we've done wrong and how little we've done right. Every wrong thought, every wrong word, every wrong action. Then they are judged. He then casts many of us people into an eternal fire. Does this not seem unsettling?

Saint4God.


In the event that I misunderstood your point, please forgive me. But doesn't the Word say that if we ask, He is faithful to forgive and that He will cast it as far as the east is from the west and into the sea of forgetfulness and NEVER remember it against us again?
Which inclines me to believe that when we stand before the judgement throne, that we will only be judged for what we did not get cleaned up before we departed this earthly life.


[edit on 6-3-2008 by sizzle]

reply to post by saint4God


I like your rollercoaster analogy, apart from the fact the person could just point to a rollercoaster and go "there it is". Believing in God seems like suuuuch a stretch of the imagination in comparison. No evidence, just a book that says it's legit because it says its legit.

The God of the bible seems to be a complete tool, too - showing off, killing people, causing suffering for no reason. Why did he have to send Jesus down to die for our sins? Couldn't he have just said "ok, everyone's saved" and let it be? Or was he showing off for his humble creations?

As for the moral guidance the bible gives, it's disgusting. Saying to rape women and kill non-believers, etc. It's horriffic.

And don't even get me started on organised religion. That in itself screams "God doesn't exist" louder than anything else.

I believe having faith in something without evidence is as close to stupid an intelligent person can get to, in so much that they're voluntarily giving up their critical mind so they can believe something.

Personally, I wish it would just go away. It's the 21st century, not the 1st. We don't need baseless threats to get us to behave - we have society for that.

Originally posted by sizzle
In the event that I misunderstood your point, please forgive me. But doesn't the Word say that if we ask, He is faithful to forgive and that He will cast it as far as the east is from the west and into the sea of forgetfulness and NEVER remember it against us again?

Indeed it does.

Originally posted by sizzle
Which inclines me to believe that when we stand before the judgement throne, that we will only be judged for what we did not get cleaned up before we departed this earthly life.

Yep. That's how I understand it as well. More specifically, Christ is going to springing the bail for those who believed in him. Revelation 20 has the details for the rest:

"Then I saw a great white throne and him who was seated on it. Earth and sky fled from his presence, and there was no place for them. And I saw the dead, great and small, standing before the throne, and books were opened. Another book was opened, which is the book of life. The dead were judged according to what they had done as recorded in the books. The sea gave up the dead that were in it, and death and Hades gave up the dead that were in them, and each person was judged according to what he had done. Then death and Hades were thrown into the lake of fire. The lake of fire is the second death. If anyone's name was not found written in the book of life, he was thrown into the lake of fire."

I would like to say this in general. It is very difficult to explain the things of God to people who have their mind, 'dead-set against it.' I know for a fact, that before I became a Christian, I did not understand, either.
When there were things I was troubled about; well-meaning ppl would say' "read your Bible, the answer to everything is in there."
So, I would open the Bible and read, "it rained forty days and forty nights."
I would give up in disgust and say, "how does this possibly pertain to me and my troubles?!"

Now I open the Bible and read, "Ask and you shall receive, knock and the door will be opened."

Originally posted by dave420
I like your rollercoaster analogy, apart from the fact the person could just point to a rollercoaster and go "there it is".

*points to God* There He is!

Originally posted by dave420
Believing in God seems like suuuuch a stretch of the imagination in comparison. No evidence, just a book that says it's legit because it says its legit.

Come into the park, buy a ticket, ride the ride. No need for imagination.

Originally posted by dave420
The God of the bible seems to be a complete tool, too - showing off, killing people, causing suffering for no reason.

Who is 'showing off' and for what reason?

Who is killing who and why? Important are the details to a jedi warrior, hm?

Causing suffering for no reason? Who said there was suffering for no reason? My books says the opposite.

Originally posted by dave420
Why did he have to send Jesus down to die for our sins?

May Christians have this same question. The answer is one word. Any guesses?

Originally posted by dave420
Couldn't he have just said "ok, everyone's saved" and let it be?

Sure. Though wishful thinking and reality oft part in ways.

Originally posted by dave420
Or was he showing off for his humble creations?

For what purpose? Again there's the suggestion of pointlessness and pride.

Originally posted by dave420
As for the moral guidance the bible gives, it's disgusting.

What sort of disgusting moral guidance?

Originally posted by dave420
Saying to rape women and kill non-believers, etc. It's horriffic.

I agree rape and killing anyone is horrific. Christ seems to support that when he says "love your enemies and pray for those who persecute you".

Originally posted by dave420
And don't even get me started on organised religion. That in itself screams "God doesn't exist" louder than anything else.

I suppose that depends on what organization we're talking about, but since you don't want me to get you started...

Originally posted by dave420
I believe having faith in something without evidence is as close to stupid an intelligent person can get to, in so much that they're voluntarily giving up their critical mind so they can believe something.

Bah, I'm certain you do it all the time, just don't realize it. We can work on proving it if you're interested.

Originally posted by dave420
Personally, I wish it would just go away. It's the 21st century, not the 1st.

Shall we do the same with what we learned about medical science? I'd still wash that apple before eating it.

Originally posted by dave420
We don't need baseless threats to get us to behave - we have society for that.

Neither I nor the Bible have made baseless threats, nor are there any expectations to 'behave' because of it.

[edit on 6-3-2008 by saint4God]

I have also noticed that when non-believers wish to bash believers over the head, it is always, misunderstood quotes from the OLD Testament.
I don't recall that God ever endorsed rape.

Originally posted by sizzle
I have also noticed that when non-believers wish to bash believers over the head, it is always, misunderstood quotes from the OLD Testament.
I don't recall that God ever endorsed rape.

The difficulty often is a misunderstanding of what retribution is. Old Testament justice was a reaction not an action by God. So when God tells someone to rape like here:

"But if out in the country a man happens to meet a girl pledged to be married and rapes her, only the man who has done this shall die." - Deuteronomy 22:25

Oops, nope, that's where it is said not to.

Here where God says to rape...

"But he refused to listen to her, and since he was stronger than she, he raped her." - 2 Samuel 13:14

Doh, that's not either. Dang, where was that quote where God orders people to rape again?

[edit on 6-3-2008 by saint4God]

reply to post by saint4God



You
make
me laugh!
Trying to
avoid a
one-liner!
Btw, no one ever answered my question about Lillith. And frankly I don't care which viewpoint it comes from.

[edit on 6-3-2008 by sizzle]

I was just going to ask if you are a pre-tribulationist(terminology???) or mid or post.
I had some others, but forgot.

Originally posted by Clearskies
I was just going to ask if you are a pre-tribulationist(terminology???) or mid or post.
I had some others, but forgot.

Hi CS,
Who are you directing the question to? Me or Saint4God?

Both of you.
I'm pre-trib.
I just got back on line. My dog bit through my modem cord!

[edit on 6-3-2008 by Clearskies]

Originally posted by saint4God
As believers, I think we should be encouraging others to test the metal. When you buy a car and go for a test drive, do you drive the car the way the car wants to be driven? A discerning consumer will stomp the breaks, take the high-speed turn and rev the engine. When it passes the rigors of our worst, then we buy.

Agreed. It would also be nice if they were open to talking about the car instead of immediately walking up to it and shooting it with BB's. Or pelting the owners of the cars with BB's.

reply to post by Clearskies


Personally,
I find enough scripture that supports a pre-trib theory.
Enough that satisfies me anyway.
"As a man believes in his own heart, so is he."

[edit on 6-3-2008 by sizzle]

Originally posted by sizzle

You
make
me laugh!
Trying to
avoid a
one-liner!

Tempt not the mods, for they know when many lines are one.

Originally posted by sizzle
Btw, no one ever answered my question about Lillith.

I did...unless... I'm considered no one

Originally posted by sizzle
And frankly I don't care which viewpoint it comes from.

It's a pretty interesting study, but is of no consequence to be without.

Originally posted by Clearskies
I was just going to ask if you are a pre-tribulationist(terminology???) or mid or post.

Thanks for making me dust off my dictionary, but can't find the word. Can you break it down for me?

Originally posted by Clearskies
I had some others, but forgot.

No worries, I should be here when you do.

reply to post by saint4God


Saint,
While you are looking for those scriptures where God tells people to rape ppl, could you also find the ones where he tells ppl to kill non-believers?
I haven't replaced my bible yet and I can't recall anything like that. Could you check it out?

Originally posted by Clearskies
Both of you.
I'm pre-trib.

Congrats! I think...er...is that a good thing?

Originally posted by Clearskies
I just got back on line. My dog bit through my modem cord!

Ah yes, never buy bone-shaped modem cords. *nods semi-affirmatively*

reply to post by sizzle


Seems to me that it wouldn't make much sense to have people killed for not believing, when as long as there is breath in their bodies, there is a chance for them to change their minds (hearts).
"For as many as believed, gave He the authority to become the sons of God."

Originally posted by sizzle
Saint,
While you are looking for those scriptures where God tells people to rape ppl, could you also find the ones where he tells ppl to kill non-believers I haven't replaced my bible yet and I can't recall anything like that. Could you check it out?

If you're looking for "kill all non-believers" or "kill others because they're non-believers" I'd like to know myself. Doesn't seem to be in my book. In Deuteronomy, we do read of a command to clear out (meaning kill) enemies of the Israelites who have occupied their lands. I think that's as close as we can get. The ultimatim looks like this:

"When you march up to attack a city, make its people an offer of peace....If they refuse to make peace and they engage you in battle, lay siege to that city." from Deuteronomy 20. Then comes the killing and plundering. It was the punishment God had decided upon for the occupiers MUCH LIKE when Israel was wiped out for it's own sins later on in the Old Testament, but how quickly we forget Habakkuk's cry when we quote only the parts we're interested in.

[edit on 6-3-2008 by saint4God]