Wicca, gentle nature lovers or a wolf in sheeps clothing?

I'm not 100% sure, but I think the pointy hat is a symbol of the cone of power generated when witches dance in a circle.
Can anyone confirm or deny this?

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
I am an outspoken Christian here at ATS and make no apology for it. I am not responding to attack your beliefs. What I find amusing is that it's common practice to make threads assaulting the Christian faith.

Jesus never existed -- the Bible is a lie - blah blah blah - If we defend our faith we hear - show me proof - show me evidence - it's all a myth.

Now I am not accusing you of this. But that's all we ever hear. So I would like to respectfully ask you the same thing.

What exactly is it that you believe in? A spiritual force or just nature itself?

Do you have special powers from this "force"?

What evidence can you supply that it is in fact real?


Thank you.

Not to attack your religion, but show me where the bible is proof, show me evidence that these events happened.

For an example, I can murder someone, hide the body and get away scott free if the body and murder weapon is not found. No body, no Evidence, no proof of my wrong doing. But I could admit to doing it, I could write a book and everyone could believe it, but in reality I never killed anyone. Is my book true?

Jesus is real? show me the body, show me evidence of his existence other than a written "story" of events. Nobody can show the proof, therefore it doesn't exist.

There are many different religions in this world, every Religion has different beliefs, different entities to worship, someone has to be wrong or they are all wrong, but we can all agree that they can't all be right. IMO religion is brainwash, it's to stop people from asking question on how and why we are here. It's my opinion and i'm allowed to state it.

I've known a wican in my life and she was lovely. I asked her to show me some basics of wicca, she showed me her runes, her tarot cards and explained it all to me. None of it was evil and horrible, i had some basic understanding before i met her but a greater one after meeting her.

To me wicca seems a very friendly peaceful religion in the modern practice of it, respecting nature and the enviroment. It seems to me it oes less damage than christianity does. The person showing me about wicca never tried to convert me and yet i have been approached by christians, catholics and even islamic followers several times in my life.

Not to mention jehovas witnesses who come round every other damn week. I honestly don't mind religion but i don't want it ramed down my throat and wicca just never does that from what i've seen.

Maybe this will help
www.widdershins.org...

Between about 1450 and 1600, when belief in the power of witchcraft was widespread in Europe, witches were reported to take to the skies and head to their midnight gatherings astride not only broomsticks, but goats, oxen, sheep, dogs and wolves, as well as shovels and staffs.
www.sorcererscompanion.net...

Malleus Maleficarum
books.google.com... o&hl=en

www.mallatts.com...

see people actually wore pointy hats , I wil try and find something more athentic

www.mysticum.de...

Here are popes, mitre
www.newadvent.org...
Dagon the fish god...
www.cuttingedge.org...

www.thetruthishere.com...

Inanna (Mesopotamian goddess)
home.tiscali.nl...

Me, from my temple
they caused me to fly;
A Queen am I whom, from my city,
like a bird they caused to fly. (p.129)

www.sacred-texts.com...

Ishtar
artfiles.art.com...< br />
Start at the beginning
www.sacred-texts.com...

Originally posted by saint4God

Originally posted by crudos
Body counts for the faithful always impress.

The trivialization of human life is quite disturbing.

I'm not sure which is more disturbing - the trivialization of human life, or trivializing human life and "keeping score" in order to score points on the internet about who's angst-wang is bigger.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Angst-wang can you say angst-wang here? Man I didn't know you could get away with saying something like angst-wang. That's really givinf

Originally posted by enchantress62
broom flying over the moon...

I remember a few years ago two of my Wiccan friends had a terrible argument. One of them referred to what they hold sacred as a 'broom' and the other completely snapped at her. There apparently is a certain word for the 'brooms' they keep but the term escapes me at the moment. That is most likely where that association comes from. I really wish I could remember their technical term for it but witches did have some sort of sacred broom.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
wang

because a NC public school allowed 'Holy' Bibles to be given out on the school grounds... there was a brew-ha-ha


news item ~~~Witch's Bibles, Wiccan Teachers for Schools ? ~~~
source link on page = altreligion.about.com/2006/04/21/witchs-bible-wiccan-teachers-for-schools.htm
www.topix.net...


wonder what decision was reached about allowing Wiccan published (by Llewellyn) material to be passed around on school grounds...
probably by the people of 'PAN' (pagan awareness network)


the Christian sect should really have thought out their attempt at exclusive evangelizing...which they evidently thought was wanted and desired by the student body.

Originally posted by saint4God

Between 1917 and 1940, 130,000 Orthodox priests were arrested. In 1918, the Cheka under Felix Dzerzhinsky executed over 3000 Orthodox clergymen of all ranks. Some were drowned in ice-holes or poured over with cold water in winter until they turned to ice-pillars. In 1922, the Solovki Camp of Special Purpose, the first Russian concentration camp was established in the Solovki Islands in the White Sea. Eight metropolitans, twenty archbishops, and forty-seven bishops of the Orthodox Church died there, along with tens of thousands of the laity. Of these, 95,000 were put to death, executed by firing squad. Father Pavel Florensky was one of the New-martyrs of this particular period.

In the first five years after the Bolshevik revolution, 28 bishops and 1,200 priests were executed.

When studying history, it's very important to maintain perspective. It did not stop in 1940, nor is this the only place this occurs.



Saint4God last night I was thinking of this post and well.........Out of curiosty, who were the pursecuters? I mean I can see they were Russian, but what religion were they? I know you sent a link, but I haven't had time to sit and read it. Please enlighten me if you don't mind.

reply to post by AshleyD


Hi there AshleyD,

Is the word that you're thinking of (for a witches broom) ... 'besom' ?
It's the only other term I've ever heard or referred too. I gave some info about them in an earlier post.

Woody

I started a thread on sorcery (sometimes called witchcraft). As the Bible defines it , it involves using plants and roots to alter your consciousness.

I also have learned that he Bible does mention good uses for drugs- plants and oils as medicines. So the healing arts are not condemned.

I am curious about the wiccan take on substances and opening oneself up to the influence of dangerous spirits.

I'm not sure on this, is there a definative set of codes and practices that Wiccans follow or is it more loosely defined with people practicing in their own way.

Angst wang, I love it, we should adopt it and use the term as a flag up concerning certain thread subjects I think.

[edit on 2-3-2008 by Cantwara]

maybe they were priestesses in their own right who didnt align with the "christians" of the time; and were very maidenly in apperance but had their own "practices" regarding how they choose a mate: if u get what im implying.

ao then out of jealousy and a new "figure" as god being different for the "christians" of the time were setenced to death for non intermarriage with the opposing religiousity of the time.

Originally posted by Cantwara
I'm not sure on this, is there a definative set of codes and practices that Wiccans follow or is it more loosely defined with people practicing in their own way.

Angst wang, I love it, we should adopt it and use the term as a flag up concerning certain thread subjects I think.

[edit on 2-3-2008 by Cantwara]

I can't speak for other witches, but for me there is defenantly a set of rules to follow. The most important ones being the "Rede" (Harm none, do what you will) and the "Web of life" or "The rule of three" which says that the energy you put out into the Universe comes back on you three fold. Kind of keeps you humble if you believe this to be true. I happen to take it very seriously. That said, I'll share this with you. To practice magic we cast a circle, it's a protective space where nothing can enter unless you invite it in. When I practice magic, I only invite the Goddess and my gardian (for lack of a better way of putting it) in. My gardian is the Goddess Vesta, she's the Goddess of home and hearth. She represents all things comforting in the home. Anyway, I cast a circle and then communicate with the Goddess and/or Vesta to ask questions or make requests. For me, this is like going to church, in the since that it's a very spiritual experience, and like church it's ritualistic. I light candles, burn insense, etc...

I think it's important to understand that there are differences in types of magic being performed. Some ppl use magic to manipulate their environment in an attempt to make their world a better place, some use it to obtain a closer relationship with the Goddess, some use it for selfish purposes, etc... I learned a long time ago that any religion you practice can be used in a dark way and you can hurt ppl with that belief. We are forbidden to prostilatize so I'll leave it at that, but I will say that there are many books available that expain this religion. One I find very informative is called "WICCA the complete craft" by D.J. Conway. It's an easy read and very informative.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
I started a thread on sorcery (sometimes called witchcraft). As the Bible defines it , it involves using plants and roots to alter your consciousness.

I also have learned that he Bible does mention good uses for drugs- plants and oils as medicines. So the healing arts are not condemned.

I am curious about the wiccan take on substances and opening oneself up to the influence of dangerous spirits.

lol I don't use drugs of any kind. Hell Tylenol puts me to sleep for 3 days! I don't drink more then the occasional glass of wine if the occasion calls for it. I think in the last year that's probably been in the rhelm of like 3 or 4 glasses. I will tell you this, if you put yourself into the right state of mind, you don't need drugs or any substance to accomplish maraculous things. The human mind is capable of things we can't imagine, and we use so little of it. There's information on that and I'll see if I can find it and post it up later.

Hi Enchantress thanks for the reply. I have to say the Wiccans I have met, admittedly few, have always come across as thouroughly decent, aware and good people. Any belief system that puts spiritual responsiblity and accountabilty so firmly in the centre of it's creed is a good thing by me. Like you I also believe that all systems have their good and bad sides and singling one out for criticism or praise is misguided at best.

This is definately a subject I'll be keen to read up on, thank you.

Originally posted by woodwytch
Is the word that you're thinking of (for a witches broom) ... 'besom'?

Yes! That is it. I kept wanting to call it a 'bosom' but I knew that wasn't right! So, I just claimed total forgetfulness.

Originally posted by Bigwhammy

It's weird to me that they say they are atheists - but they will not go after a wiccan or a hindu or whatever. They are really anti christians - not atheists.

I dont think they are after or anti Christians.
The main difference, having been an zionist, evangelical Christian myself, is that Christianity (unlike what you mentioned...buddhist, wiccan, etc) do not actively go out of their way to convert and save someone - who quite frankly - does not want to be saved.

And even more tend to act as if their way is the only way and will not listen and talk openly to others, so it makes talking to them quite one sided and difficult at time. (unlike a buddhist, wiccan, etc. who are easy and quite open to a two way dialouge)

Peace

dAlen

[edit on 2-3-2008 by dAlen]

Originally posted by Bigwhammy
I started a thread on sorcery (sometimes called witchcraft). As the Bible defines it , it involves using plants and roots to alter your consciousness.

As mentioned in your thread, this indeed is not what the bible calls sorcery.
True sorcery is the manipulation of someone and deception of someone (using whatever tools necessary) to lead them down the path you want them to.

In christianity there are many sorcerers. (At the top)
And Im not saying this to put down Christianity - as a Christian (no longer an evangelical, zionist), I knew people in top positions who qualified for a true sorcerer and saw its affects on people. Of course this wont matter to you, perhaps, but if you realize Im not attacking you, etc. then maybe you will realize that perhaps Im speaking the truth as I have nothing to gain from such accusations.

Again, mother nature is not the issue - you could call the mass media a form of brainwashing and sorcery...but again, media is a tool.

See, we must remember the tool is only good or evil depending on whose hands its in.

Lets think of Moses for a moment...he and Pharoahs magicians demonstrated the same miracles...but it is the hands of who wields the 'miracles' that classifies it as sorcery.

There is yet another level to this...but first one must get to the point of bypassing the old wives tales of what withcraft is and is not.

peace

dAlen

reply to post by dAlen

As mentioned in your thread, this indeed is not what the bible calls sorcery.
True sorcery is the manipulation of someone and deception of someone (using whatever tools necessary) to lead them down the path you want them to.

I agree there is an element of intent but where are you getting that?
New Testament is in Greek - most scholars use Strong's to translate. The Greek word in the Bible that get translated to sorcery is:

PHARMAKIA (or -EIA) (Eng., pharmacy etc.) primarily signified the use of medicine, drugs, spells; then, poisoning; then sorcery. . . . In sorcery, the use of drugs, whether simple or potent, was generally accompanied by incantations and appeals to occult powers, with the provision of various charms, amulets, etc.

What Bible are you using?
What Greek dictionary?



[edit on 3/2/2008 by Bigwhammy]