Forget global warming: Welcome to the new Ice Age

reply to post by Tenebrous

You may want to reserach sun spots, they are cool spots on the sun, so if we have less sunspots the sun would acatully be warmer, not colder.

A real good example of a half truth, Sunspots come in pairs, the cooler half we see very well and call sunspots , the hotter half ejecting plasma causing Coronal Mass ejections using up their energy (cooling off) to throw massive plasma discharges toward all the planets and other directions. No Sunspots and the heat of the sun stays close to the surface
ie the Corona cools off a little (there are other magnetic reasons the Corona stays hot),

Massive sunspot activity causes massive coronal
heating which spews plasma towards earth mars and beyond, Author C CLarke wants to use the Solar Wind to power solar sails for system
exploration. Here is a snippet from www.scholarpedia.org...

The distribution of sizes of active regions ranges from extended energetic active regions to the smallest ones called Ephemeral Active Regions that consist of tiny bipoles. All these regions can lead to powerful energy release that can contribute to coronal heating either by their strength or by their number

(active regions are what scientists call Sunspots)

In other words the Sunspots decrease the surface temp by a thousand degress usually from 6000Cdegresss to 5000C degrees and boost the Corona to several million degress. The solar wind originates in the corona of the Sun.

There are some theories that the magnetic field of the Earth captures and redircts this plasma thru the earth at the magnetic poles causing inductive heating (Has any study been done on Aurora's and atmospheric heating?

PS - The next solar cycle has been delayed almost a year so instead of the solar max being 2011 it might now be 2012, Assuming the next solar
cycle even gets started. Climate cannot be copmpared to weather however no matter how many places have had a warm winter, China Russia USA Mid West to East havn't seen cold weather like like for many years, Also if we can correlate Solar Cycles with weather (even Climate)
there would be a delay just like the seasons. We can watch the weather over the next year to see if its cooling more or less, also the Polar Bears in Alaska have no ice holes to capture food as the Polar Ice has reformed moire than in the last 10 years, Polar bears do not hibernate.

[edit on 26-2-2008 by Eagle1229]

The Arctic Sea Ice Is Back.

I've been seeing this reported multiple places recently and I think there is a thread here.

The hype about the sea ice has been used as a political tool and I don't recall any of them saying it would be right back within a few months. I live in a place where erroneous data could impact our economy and even destroy it. It is very important that people are honest about these issues and don't lie or exaggerate. Real harm can be done as a result.

Living where I do I've seen some huge con-games pulled on the American Public by both Politicians and Environmental Groups to influence important legislation. They lie because they know the truth will not get them the results they want.

Some great examples are the supposed pictures and videos of where the drilling will happen in ANWR if it ever gets approved. Even Congress was shown these lies. They originated from an area south of there unrelated to the swampy, mosquito infested area where the locations actually are.

Another, that I thought was the worst, was reported on the front page of the Anchorage Daily News a few years ago. At that time, before the out of state money poured in from Environmental Activist Groups, it was impossible to find a group of people opposed to ANWR other than extremists living in Anchorage who had zero knowledge to base an opinion on. If it made money and created jobs they oppose it out of hand without any research. The anti-ANWR bunch from DC wanted to have a demonstration of Native Alaskans opposed to the drilling. When they could not find enough they flew up some Native Americans from the lower 48 for the photo's and video footage they wanted. Even our extremely Liberal Newspaper could not stomach it and reported the truth. Those of you in the lower 48 were never told the truth.

Alaska's entire future is at stake here and I think it is an example of how Science if usurped by Politicians and Extremists can destroy economies, communities and real peoples lives.

In the 70's I recall reading that all the plant life on Earth would be dead in 30 years. Never happened. I was told the Redwoods were gone in Northern California due to clear-cutting and it was supposed to still be going on in the 80's. In the mid-80's I worked there and got to fly in a private plane over the entire area. There were huge stands of old growth still standing and no obvious clear cuts; only small evidence of that. I found out most of the logging had been stopped decades before.

In the 90's Montana was represented as being destroyed by clear cutting. I worked there many times on contracts and drove hundreds if not thousands of miles of logging roads and saw zero evidence of indiscriminate clear cutting.

In that same era BYU put out a film for the Sierra Club (if memory serves) that showed a ruined area in Idaho's pristine northern forests and claimed they were videos of destruction that happened recently. Turned out the video was very old and showed an area that burned in a lightning caused fire 30 years before. Someone even went to the trouble to go and take new footage to show it had completely recovered.

While moving to Anchorage we decided to drive up and take a vacation in Canada. As we approached the Yukon Territory we ran into some construction on the road. The girl flagging told us it would be 45 minutes or so. She asked where we were from and I explained we just came from Idaho and were going to Anchorage to open an office. She immediately went into a tearful tirade about how the logging companies had completely destroyed all the forests in Northern Idaho (the Panhandle) and Montana. I asked where she got that information and she said "Canadian Television". I tried to explain that those area are still pristine, except in cities, and that she had been lied to, but I could see in her eyes she did not believe me. She was totally unaware that Idaho had the highest percentage of Wilderness Land of any State.

I then started thinking about Americans who live in large cities who never see these areas and realized these people have little reason not to believe these lies. Like that girl they believe the opposite of the truth.

Now we are presented with Global Warming in the same way as the other lies materialized and we are supposed to accept it as fact when the sources are the same as all the other lies? Deny Ignorance?

Science needs to completely separate from Politics and then and only then, will we get some truth again. Until that time Science can never be trusted and should not be trusted.

I could give other examples like the record Salmon Runs in rivers that were not supposed to survive but I think I've made my opinion known.

Yet more in agreement:

apnews.myway.com...

and yet more in agreement:

www.dailytech.com...

This one even has a chart for ya melatonin.

More and more and more

wattsupwiththat.wordpress.com...

www.dailytech.com...

www.nationalpost.com...

Aye, the denialist machine is in full flow, what with an La Nina winter and a delayed solar cycle. You'd think we'll be having an ice-age next week.

The amazing thing is that these are the same people who criticised the non-existent scientific hype about global cooling in the 1970s. Nothing like a good hypocrite. I'm sure in twenty years some random character like youself will be on ATS using these articles as evidence of how naff climate science is.

[edit on 28-2-2008 by melatonin]

Well suprise suprise yet again. GW is a lie therefore I can sit on my butt and do nothing about it. GW is wrong look at the weather (!DUH!) its snowing so I can sit on my butt and do nothing. GW is about making money for rich people so I can sit on my butt and do nothing.

That last one still puzzles me since not one penny has been made from CO2 "taxes". Unless you are saying taxes on oil is a CO2 tax ! Which is so warped it beggars belief.

So its the same old same old with a bit of snow in winter getting the Global Warming skeptics all excited. The human race has to change its ways and certain people don't like the idea so they deny the ever increasing evidence. The most astonishing is that the armchair they are sitting in gives them more knowledge than scientists in the field. I just wish I had one of those amazing armchairs (I'd prefer one that was tuned in to the lottery though).

By the way "weather" and "climate" are different......

That last one still puzzles me since not one penny has been made from CO2 "taxes". Unless you are saying taxes on oil is a CO2 tax ! Which is so warped it beggars belief.

Sorry, they are implementing them in my country... Canada. And here we have the worst winter in over 50 years and it's not over yet. So please.

First I am not against cleaning up the environment decreasing CO2
from Oil and Coal is an admirable goal,(some of the technologies used to sequester CO2 also have the additional benefit of cleaning up Heavy metal contamination like Mercury and radiation from burning Uranium Radium and other radioactive minerals contained in the Coal) just doesn't have much impact IMHO on GW.

The most recent solar maximum was in late 2000. The first spotless day after that was January 28, 2004. Using this rule, solar minimum should arrive in late 2006, about a year earlier than expected.

www.globalsecurity.org...
says the current solar min started a year earlier than expected.
Todays Solar activity dx.qsl.net...

Solar Activity Forecast
Solar activity is expected to be very low.
Geophysical Activity Forecast
The geomagnetic field is expected to be mostly unsettled with periods of active conditions for 29 February, and at unsettled levels for 01 March due to the influence of the high speed stream. Activity is expected to be predominately quiet on 02 March as the stream subsides somewhat.



Recent Major Solar Flare Activity
(usually reported within 30 minutes of event peak)

No major flare activity to report

Seems the current Solar MIN started a year Early and the next Solar Max has not started at all.
One wonders if all those CO2 credits may need to be written off like the housing market derivatives.

Time will tell especially if the next Solar Cycle is delayed further.
www.windows.ucar.edu...=/sun/activity/sunspot_cycle.html&edu=high

Some scientists believe there is evidence for other, longer-period variations in the sunspot and solar cycles. Other scientists are skeptical about such claims. Most scientists think we need more data, spanning longer periods of time, to definitively resolve this issue. Besides these regular cycles, the Sun has exhibited periods of very unusual sunspot counts. Most notably, from about 1645 to 1715 there were very few sunspots - in some years none at all were observed! This period, now called the Maunder Minimum (after E.W. Maunder, who did important pioneering work related to this phenomenon), corresponded to an extremely cold spell in Europe known as the Little Ice Age

Note It was Likely a World Wide Mini Ice Age but the AP and UPI didn't quote the indegenous populations of the rest of the world



[edit on 28-2-2008 by Eagle1229]

[edit on 28-2-2008 by Eagle1229]

Looking on the bright side it's not the end of the world. Scientists are expecting another active solar cycle to start up sometime in the next few months so global warming would resume if that's the case at least for a few more years. Then if everything settles down after 2012, it will likely take a few years for the planet to start getting a lot colder since I believe the oceans will retain a great deal of heat. Apparently doing massive pollution of our air with greenhouse gases won't help either since China itself is doing that now and only creating a massive smog and pollution problem.

Global cooling could become a major problem 10 years from now if the planet cools enoughs to cause crop failures in the summer time or adversely affects crop yield. We have a lot more mouths to feed now than were around 200 years ago.

As far as politicians giving us a straight answer, that's a joke. Just today I read that President Bush wants to continue to have a strong dollar policy.

On the bright side, I'm looking forward to a cooler summer. Unfortunately I read that some studies indicated the number of Atlantic Hurricanes can actually increase with certain cooler conditions. Maybe the winds are lighter and not blowing the tops off the forming storms. Of course if the ocean temperatures drop below 80 degrees F. that would likely kill off the chances of a storm forming. It's going to have to get a lot colder and stay that way for years I believe before the oceans cool off that much in warmer regions.

www.wcax.com...


Get this......Too much snow cancels winter carnival in New Hampshire

This WINTER is just too much

cold and snowy again here in NY tonight too!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Originally posted by Tenebrous
No one knows for sure if solar activity makes a difference for sure on Earths temperature, it is more of a threat due to mass cornal ejections or something of that type, sending an EMP of worse get plasma itself ourway.

It is however, often speculated and never disproven, that the Mauder minimum (an exceptionally low period of solar activity in the 17th or 18th century) was responsible for the "Little Ice Age" (a period of weird and cold weather) but no direct proof has been found.

[edit on 25-2-2008 by Tenebrous]

That is ridiculous. The warm and cold periods of the last few hundred years (and using tree rings and such several thousand years) are EASILY correlated to Sol's activity.

That's like saying that it has not been proven that the sun is what makes it warmer during the day, just because you don't have a working mechanical theory to explain it.