The Social Taboo of Criticizing Radical Islam

Originally posted by Armin
Shows how much you guys know your facts about Islam, it seems like the media have done a great job brainwashing you all to believe all that.

I don't need any media to tell me how or what to think. The books of Islam are freely available on the net!

Qur'an's "Spoils of War," surah: "Allah has sent you from your homes to fight for the Cause. Allah wished to confirm the truth by his words: wipe the Infidels out to the last. I shall fill the hearts of the Infidels with terror! So smite them on their necks and every joint, and incapacitate them, for they are opposed to Allah and His Apostle. Whoever opposes Us should know that Allah is severe in retribution. The Infidels will taste the torment of Hell. So when you meet them in battle do not retreat, for all who turn away from fighting will bring the wrath of Allah on themselves and their abode will be Hell. It was not you who killed them, but Allah who did so. You did not throw what you threw. Allah did to bring out the best in the faithful."
And you should know, the Qur'an defines "Infidels" in the 5th surah: "They are surely Infidels who say Christ, the Messiah is God." (5:72)

As for why people are reluctant to be negative towards Islam, Craig Winn has this to say:
"Criticizing a religion is something that makes people squeamish, especially in the paranoid culture of political correctness. Christians say that we are to love, not judge. Jews, after millennia of persecution, are terrified of even the perception of intolerance. Secular humanists, in deference to multiculturalism and the peace process, have sacrificed truth on the altar of their political agenda."(www.prophetofdoom.net...)

Here is some EVIDENCE for you:

1929
In Hebron, Arabs kill 67 Jews and begin driving Jewish families ot of the city and surrounding areas.
1951
July 20
King Abdullah of Jordan assassinated by Arab extremist in Jerusalem, Jordan, while entering the Mosque of Omar to pray. The assassin and four others are hanged for their part in the murder.
September 11
Pakistani prime minister Lisquat Ali Khan shot dead while addressing public meeting in Rawalpindi, Pakistan, by Afghan fanatic.
1954
March 17
Bus passengers killed when Palestinian terrorists cross into the Negev desert, Israel, and ambush the vehicle.
1960
August 29
Jordanian prime minister and eleven others killed by bomb in the foreign ministry building, Amman, Jordan. Two of the bombers fled to safety and eleven others are sentenced to death for the attack.
1965
May 25
Three Israeli civilians killed in Al Fatah Palestinian terrorist attack on Jewish settlement at Ramat Hakovash, Israel.
1968
March 18
School bus hits land mine in Negev desert, Israel, killing two adults and injuring twenty eight children. The Israelis stage major retaliatory raid into Jordan to hunt down the Palestinian Al Fatah terrorists responsible.
June 5
American presidential candidate Robert Kennedy murdered by Jordanian terrorist, Sirhan Bishara Sirhan, in Los Angeles, United States. His killer was arrested and became the cause of further terrorist attacks, as Arab terrorist groups demanded his release
July 22
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine carry out first ever aircraft hijacking, seizing an El Al Boeing 707 in Rome, Italy, and diverting it to Algeria. Thirty two Jewish passengers held hostages for five weeks.
September 4
Three bombs explode in central Tel Aviv, Israel, killing one Israeli and wounding seventy one civilians.
November 22
Mahaneh Yehuda market, Israel, bombed by Al Fatah Palestinian terrorists killing twelve civilians and injuring fifty two.
December 26
One Israeli killed in Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine machine gun attack on El Al aircraft at Athens airport, Greece. Two terrorists were captured but later released by the Greek government after a Greek aircraft was hijacked to Beirut. Three days after the Athens attack Israeli commandos raid Beirut airport, Lebanon and blow up thirteen Arab airliners worth $43 million.
1969
February 18
Palestinian terrorists attack El Al Boeing 707 on runway at Zurich airport, Switzerland, raking the fuselage with gunfire, killing the pilot and three passengers. An Israeli skymarshall/secuirty guard returned fire killing one of the terrorists and drove off the reminder.
February 21
Palestinian terrorists explode a bomb in a crowded supermarket in Jerusalem, Israel, killing two people and injuring twenty.
August 29
TWA hijacked by Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine terrorists after taking off from Rome, Italy, led by Leila Khalid, and forced to fly to Damascus, Syria. All the passengers and crew were released unharmed but the terrorists exploded a bomb in the cockpit of the aircraft.
October 22
Four civilians killed by Palestinian bombs in two apartments in Haifa, Israeli, and twenty others wounded.
1970
February 10
Three Arab terrorists attempt to hijack an El Al Boeing 707 at Munich airport, Germany, but are thwarted by the pilot who grappled with a terrorist in the terminal lounge. One Israeli is killed and eleven others wounded.
February 21
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine blow up a Swiss airliner just after it has taken off from Zurich, Switzerland, killing all forty seven people on board.
September 6
"Skyjack Sunday" takes places at Dawson Field, in Jordan. TWA, Swissair, BOAC aircraft, along with more than four hundred hostages, were hijacked and ordered to the Jordanian airport by the Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine. Another terrorist team tried to hijack an El Al Boeing over London but security staff foiled the attempt and captured one of the hijackers, Leila Khalid, alive. The German, Swiss and British Governments all agreed to the PFLP's demands and released a number of terrorists, including Khalid, held in their jails.
1971
May 17
Turkish radicals assassinate Israeli consul general in Istanbul, Turkey, as part of a joint operation with Palestinian terrorists.
November 28
Jordanian prime minister Wasfi Tal shot and killed by Palestinian Black September terrorists at the Sheraton Hotel in Cairo, Egypt. A month later the Jordanian ambassador in London, England, is shot and wounded by a Black September hit squad.
1972
May 8
Israeli commandos storm hijacked Belgian Sabena airliner at Ben Gurion airport, Israel, killing the four Palestinian Black September terrorists aboard the aircraft and freeing the hostages. One passenger and five Israeli soldiers were killed.
May 30
Popular Front for the Liberation of Palestine and Japanese Red Army terrorists open fire in passenger terminal of Lod Airport, Israel, killing twenty six civilians and wounding seventy eight others. Japanese terrorist Kozo Okamoto survives and is captured by the Israelis.
September 5
Eight Palestinian Black September terrorists seize eleven Israeli athletes in the Olympic Village in Munich, Germany. In a bungled rescue attempt by the West German authorities nine of the hostages and five terrorists are killed.
September 9
Member of the Israeli embassy staff in London, England, killed by Palestinian letter bomb.
1973
March 12
Palestinian Black September terrorists murder an Israeli businessman on Cyprus.
August 5
Black September suicide squad attacks passenger terminals at Athens airport, Greece, killing three civilians and injuring fifty five.
December 17
Palestinian terrorists bomb Pan Am office at Fiumicino airport, Rome, Italy killing thirty two and injuring fifty. The terrorist then take seven Italian policemen hostage and hijack an aircraft to Athens, Greece, before flying on to Kuwait after killing one of the hostages. They then surrendered.
1974
March 1
Saudi Arabian embassy in Khartoum, Sudan, seized by Black September terrorists and a number of diplomats from Arab and western countries taken hostages. The terrorists murder two American and one Belgian diplomat.
Go here for rest of list

go here for a list of all 2996 victims of Sept. 11th 2001
Need I say more?


[Mod Edit - external tags]

[edit on 24/2/2008 by Sauron]

...liberal bias in the media preventing criticism of Islam.


I'm not sure it is 'liberal' I think it's anyone who doesn't want a protest outside their offices, or anyone who doesn't want to spark another few days of flag burning or riots...

reply to post by asmeone


Well, let's see. First of all we are told in this forum:

This forum is dedicated to the speculation and examination into conspiracies and scandals perpetrated or inspired by organized religions. This forum is not for the general discussion of religious topics. Discussion topics and follow-up responses in this forum will likely tend to lean in favor of conspiracies, scandals, and cover-ups. Members who would seek to refute such theories should be mindful of AboveTopSecret.com's tradition of focusing on conspiracy theory, cover-ups, and scandals.

Now of course this does not mean we are pulling anything out of our behinds in terms of evidence. I did provide links to back up what I was saying and so did several other posters who provided the specific examples you requested. The links I submitted earlier were done very quickly but I will do a better job tomorrow with the most recent links of famous examples. Sorry I was so rushed earlier.

But it does seem somewhat odd. The comments in this thread are enough to offer anecdotal support of what this thread is saying. If you even come across as being insulting to Islam you will get some heat. Reread some of the comments in this very thread. No one was even insulting Islam and we were labeled ignorant. See? Intolerant, ignorant, stupid, etc. We've heard it all just for putting forth a theory.

A couple of us got 'scolded' in other thread for demanding solid proof of a conspiracy theory regarding Christianity but we're basically told to pipe down because that is exactly what this forum is for: the discussion of theories concerning religious conspiracies. There have been probably a dozen examples of evidence provided on this thread so far. So take it easy and I will be back in the morning with more.

reply to post by AshleyD

I am a radical but I am not a violent man. I am a radical because I have made a decision to believe in the Holy Bible. With that clear at the outset I make no apology for it. I am also a “nut”. I believe in the supernatural. In fact I am looking at this issue form a supernatural perspective. So when I sit down to think about Islam, here’s what comes to my mind,

11 The angel of the LORD also said to her:
"You are now with child and you will have a son.
You shall name him Ishmael, for the LORD has heard of your misery.
12 He will be a wild donkey of a man; his hand will be against everyone
and everyone's hand against him, and he will live in hostility
toward all his brothers."

(Gen 16)

That is my frame of reference because I believe it is God’s frame of reference. I believe any individual can be transformed through the power of Jesus Christ so I do not condemn all Arabs. However, I do not expect the demeanor of radical Islam to ever change. I believe they are used by the forces of darkness to smite the will of God and wreak havoc. I also nutty enough to believe this,

"For we wrestle not against flesh and blood, but against principalities, against powers, against the rulers of darkness of this world, against spiritual wickedness in high places."

( Eph 6:12)

So is there a conspiracy to label Christian critics of radical Islam as bigots. Absolutely! It comes from the same source that wants to rationalize the blood sacrifice of a million human babies a year in the United States. It comes for the same source that tells our children it’s cool to do drugs and have sex. It comes from the same source that says Jesus is a mythological hero and never even walked the earth.

It’s a cunning conspiracy. As a Christian I am also a human being. I can be emotional, vulnerable and insecure. I pray for faith but the world is hard. I don’t want people to think I am mean or intolerant. My enemy knows my weakness. So he uses his assets against me. When I challenge the legions of darkness, I should expect heavy opposition. In fact if I can almost judge the righteousness of the cause by the level of opposition I face. Radical Islam is a profound force of evil. Ashley you should expect the liberal Atheist apologists to run to its defense. They really cannot help themselves. They don’t even know they are pawns. Pray for them.

reply to post by AshleyD

Strange. I haven't noticed any social taboo of criticizing Radical Islam. In fact, I think there is much more of a social taboo of criticizing Radical Christianity, which is also destructive (notice that if I said "just as" everyone would jump all over this post, even though it's true -- ok, jump).

What I believe most people take issue with is in criticizing modern Islam, Christianity, Bhuddism, Hinduism, Sikhism, Atheism, or other peaceful belief systems.

In her book, completed just days before she was assassinated, "Reconciliation: Islam, Democracy and the West", Bhenizair Bhutto claims that Islam is not inconsistent with democracy or even women's rights and that the real issue is Sharia law, similar to the difference between Christianity and the Jesuits in a way.

In any case, I think the OP title is somewhat flawed. I really have seen encouragement of criticizing Radical Islam and discouragement of criticizing Radical Christianity. Perhaps I hang with more Christians or something. In any case, I think the operative word and the one we should be criticizing, but not outlawing unless it results in actual violence (remember that old free speech thing), is Radicalism.

And here is something else I just thought of: Is it possible the liberal American media is a victim of the stigma as well or is it more possible they are a 'coconspirator?' Could they be so scared of bringing backlash on themselves like foreign media networks have done therefore they maintain silence on the issue? The conservative media seems to be outspoken on the subject in spite of the accusations of intolerance and ignorance so why the difference in the liberal media? Food for thought.

It is all in where you get your "news" from. I tend to listen or watch mostly right wing stuff, so I see things as ALWAYS about Radical Islam.....Or Border Fences.............so much so that I could give a damn about either of those issues...............also lib media is run by lib people. They dont want to anger their viewer base of cowards by running a strong piece on lunatics in religion. On the other hand the right cant go through a day without pouring gas on a hot story that will anger a billion people.

[edit on 24-2-2008 by TXMACHINEGUNDLR]

reply to post by AshleyD


It's not as if they're doing it alone.

History shows us that certain conditions create extremism. The Islam of today uses the same set of books as the Islam of the 15th century - the Islam that was the scientific and social capital of the world, the Islam that saved untold numbers of Jews from frankly maniacal Christians hell-bent on exterminating them from Europe.

So ask yourself. What changed the religion of Akbar and Suleiman into the religion of Osama and Yassir?

I agree with AshleyD, in that there seems to be a very real 'over-reaction' to any criticism or negitavism towards Islam. I don't know why it is such a touchy subject. I know that VOCAL Muslim adherants are a larger proportion than other religions, and it would also seem that by percentage, there are a lot more extermists and a lot more die-hards in Islam than other religions. Now it maybe specifically because they are muslim, that they get more media attention. That would indicate a media bias. It's not often you see a news story about a muslim familly donating to a local charity, or saving someone from a house fire. Perhaps these things don't happen, or, perhaps when it does happen, the media doesn't mention that they are muslim. Now, when someone gets blown up or shot, it could be that every time it happens, if they are muslim, it gets mentioned... That way it could either be a transfering of the reporters/editors bias or, it could be a way to cement a stereotype into the publics conciousness.

reply to post by AshleyD


Liberal American Media?

Holy Moose and Squirrel, Ashley, you're on a roll with these fabricated, nonsensical boogeymen.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Hi WalkingFox,
According to Bhenizair Bhutto, as I posted above with other stuff (fast moving thread, seemed to get quickly covered), the real problem is Sharia law. She also considers that to be blasphemy based on her faith as a Muslim, just as many consider(ed) Catholicism to be blasphemy, which led to the establishment of the Protestant religions.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Holy Moose and Squirrel, Ashley, you're on a roll with these fabricated, nonsensical boogeymen.

Are you serious? Just about everyone differentiates between the two extremes of American media: liberal and conservative. You did know that right? Surely you've heard of the phrases 'liberal media' and 'conservative media,' correct? That's pretty common social knowledge.

Perceived Media Bias.

Taken from Wikipedia due to it being an easy, albeit not always reliable, reference.

[edit on 2/24/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD


Of course I've heard it. I just think people who believe it are dumb as rocks.

Sort of like people who believe that the Democrats should "move right" in order to find a center... When as it stands, they ARE the centrists - slightly right of center, in fact.

Just because CNN isn't populated by the howling moonbat freaks of FOX news doesn't make it "liberal" it makes it a slightly less crazy conservative news source. We STILL only hear about abducted white girls, angry Muslims, and what a she-beast Hillary is. Wolf Blitzer just foams less than Sean Hannity.

Originally posted by TheWalkingFox
Of course I've heard it. I just think people who believe it are dumb as rocks.

And I believe not considering it is about as dumb as a box of hair.

Notice you pointed to people, I pointed to a concept. It's the same pattern with you and me over and over again. You attack the person while I'm trying to attack the argument.

My opinions aren't so baseless that I have to refer to ad hominems when in a corner or to get my point across. Something to consider, Foxy.

reply to post by AshleyD


Ashley,
I did not demand absolute proof in my last post. I was pointing out that there is a discrephancy between the posts that you gave, which were examples of followers of Islam reacting to what they perceived as insults against their beleifs, and your repeated assertions that you are trying to debate the social stigma of criticism of radical Islam, particularly in the media. The examples that you gave do not provide evidence that there is a conspiracy in the media to quash criticism of Islam.

It is not unreasonable for me, and others, to ask you to provide evidence for the claims that you throw out. A 'theory,' though it is not completely proven, does usually have some amount of reality to it, and if you want others to consider the possibility that your theories may be true, you must, in addition to expaining the theory itself, provide compelling evidence of how that theory would function in reality.

You have provided examples of Muslims acting violently. I am not debating that or asking for more proof. I'm still curious what specific examples you are thinking of that would indicate retaliation of someone in America being censored or reprimanded by an American media outlet, think tank, court of law, or other official and documentable means. Show me a case that the ACLU has taken, or someone raising hell Al Sharpton style in defence of the Muslims, or something along the lines of the laws in certain places that outlaw attempting to debunk Holocaust.

I will reiterate that we have already established that Muslims are violent and don't need anymore examples of that.

reply to post by asmeone


Hi AsMeOne,
I generally agree with your post, but just one clarification...

I will reiterate that we have already established that Muslims are violent and don't need anymore examples of that.

I think we've only established that in the same way that we've established people are violent. Now if you say Radical Muslims are violent, I think you'd have a lot more people in agreement, just as criticizing muslims or any other religious practitioners is generally frowned on by society but as far as I can tell, criticizing "radical muslims" is certainly not.

reply to post by AshleyD


I'm sorry, Ashley, but if I read about a bunch of people who shoot themselves in the face during a Solar eclipse because they think a giant frog is eating the sun, I'm going to say they're dumb. I'm not going to wing my hands and tut over how the poor dears were misled by a bad idea - they chose to believe it was so, they chose to shoot themselves in the face. They chose idiocy.

reply to post by lifestudent


Okay, I will take that one on the chin, I can see how that is inappropriate.

I was just saying, no more "cause and effect" stories, like the violence due to the cartoons, but things that pertain to media censorship/stigmas instead.

reply to post by TheWalkingFox


Awww...man
Now we are going to have some weird cult believing a giant frog will eat the sun!

Can't we just feed Mr Frog a mealworm or something?