Religion, Fear, and Us all.

Been fighting with this all night, and after an arguement with my wife ( we have different religious views)
I've been thinking, how are so many educated, well informed people, blinded completely by an obvious ( IMO )
ruse.

I'm not here to bash anyones beliefs, honestly i have my own but...
I've noticed too many inconsistencies, in religions, all of them.
I'll start with Christianity

The topic of Jesus, the alleged son of God. Theres no historical evidence or proof of his existence.

No one has the slightest physical evidence to support a historical Jesus; no artifacts, dwelling, works of carpentry, or self-written manuscripts. All claims about Jesus derive from writings of other people. There occurs no contemporary Roman record that shows Pontius Pilate executing a man named Jesus. Devastating to historians, there occurs not a single contemporary writing that mentions Jesus. All documents about Jesus got written well after the life of the alleged Jesus from either: unknown authors, people who had never met an earthly Jesus, or from fraudulent, mythical or allegorical writings. Although one can argue that many of these writings come from fraud or interpolations, I will use the information and dates to show that even if these sources did not come from interpolations, they could still not serve as reliable evidence for a historical Jesus, simply because all sources derive from hearsay accounts.

www.nobeliefs.com...

Scholars debate the details of Jesus' birth, and few claim to know the exact year or date of his birth or death. Piecing together gospel accounts and historical records, scholars suggest that he was born between 7 and 2 BC/BCE and that he was crucified between 26 and 36 AD/CE. Near the end of his life, he was baptized in the Jordan River, led a ministry of preaching and healing in Galilee, and traveled to Jerusalem, where he was crucified.

en.wikipedia.org...

How is it, that there are no records other than those associated with the bible? No childhood, no bloodline, no successor nothing just he was born, and showed up again at an adult age, and was crucified. I've searched for historical records couldnt find any if someone can put me on to that information I'd be very grateful.

To keep it from being long winded I'ma break up the sub topics of this post.

Actually I recall reading somewhere 2 philosophers around Jesus' time that recorded about Jesus and his teachings. Can't recall but I'm sure somebody else can.

Around 4,000 (correct me) have wrote the Bible, at different times. Now surely either there is a known fact or myth about Jesus that everybody will make up something or the Holy Ghost inspired them to write a book. After all, all the Bible is is a collection of 62 (?) books.

Originally posted by degenerate oto
How is it, that there are no records other than those associated with the bible? No childhood, no bloodline, no successor nothing just he was born, and showed up again at an adult age, and was crucified. I've searched for historical records couldnt find any if someone can put me on to that information I'd be very grateful.

Check out my opening posts in this thread

The Hero Pattern (Could Jesus be Fake?)

This is why I do not believe Jesus is who he was depicted to be in the Bible.

Ok, to go deeper into the inconsistencies of Christianity
Lets say Jesus actually did exist...this article sticks out to me.

1. The disciples certainly didn't act like Jesus had foretold his resurrection.

www.questioningchristian.com...

2. Many of Jesus's most influential friends and followers evidently didn't "sign on" with the early church [link].

www.questioningchristian.com...

3. Wouldn't you think John the Baptist would have been more involved in his kinsman's ministry

www.questioningchristian.com...

4. If Jesus really said to baptize in the name of the Father, Son, and Holy Spirit, then the apostles apparently ignored his instructions

www.questioningchristian.com...
5. Peter, preaching at Pentecost, seems to have baldly misrepresented his scriptural source (5th link didnt work sorry guys)

6. Other minor discrepancies raise additional concerns about how much the New Testament authors really knew

www.questioningchristian.com...


Hm, its not looking good for everybodies favorite son of god.
Next up


Islam !

reply to post by SteveAndrew



I cant recall how many wrote the bible, but most of the bible doesnt seem to be able to stand up to history as it may be.

reply to post by adigregorio



I read that post the other day, it was quite insightful. It made many of the points that inspired me to research this topic. So thank you.

Matter fact, I think Islam will have to wait til later on today.
I'll check out the replies to the posts later.

Originally posted by degenerate oto
I read that post the other day, it was quite insightful. It made many of the points that inspired me to research this topic. So thank you.

I am glad to hear that it inspired you! That was its main purpose, to get people to think about other options. I just hope that it doesn't make me the Anti-Christ.

I look forward to hearing about the other religions as well, I can get to be lazy so my knowledge of other religions is not as in-depth as Christianity. I hope that doesn't make me look like a persecutor! To each their own I always say.

Yeah, it was a really dope post. The thing is, not to bash, but to fairly search for facts.
Not just the hearsay involved but actual facts that can be supported.
I've yet to see anything other than all literature involving the bible
that supports the idea that Jesus was an actual person, or that
anything in the bible actually happened.
Although, I am open to other perspectives.


Ok next stop, Islam and its discrepencies!

Alrighty, here we go. I'll start here with this...
Hypothetically, lets say that Christianity does have facts to prove it.
Jesus can be historically linked, and the case closed.

What about Islam? With its billions of followers, are they wrong have they been led astray?
( I'm sure all the islam "haters" are gonna eat this up )

There are some "discrepancies" between the Koran and the Bible, important enough to say that either the Koran is not the word of God or the Bible is not the word of God... they cannot be both "the truth"... one of them is false, even if it has many good things... because God cannot say one single error!.

www.religion-cults.com...

Whenever the origin of Islam is discussed, one question in particular tends to arise: are the God of the Qur'an and the God of the Bible one and the same? The answer is no. This is a common misconception. The misconception stems from the fact that many biblical characters seem to appear in the Qur'an, Abraham being a significant example. But the truth is, while the Qur'an uses the names of biblical characters to describe Quranic figures, they certainly are not the same historical figures and the God of the Bible is by no means the God of the Qur'an.

www.allaboutreligion.org...


Now it becomes a case of word versus word. Is it possible that they both have it wrong?

Then whos right? Doesnt look promising for Mohammed & friends either.

I've learnt the hard way to never discuss religion with someone who is a believer in Christianity. Case in point, I was speaking about animals to a coworker and how they are abused, I said thank goodness they go to heaven. This woman who wears a wooden cross around her neck and carries the bible in her purse to work everyday said that animals do not have souls. I said jump back (bad b word) yes they do. She said no they don't, I said how do you know, she said the bible. How so? Well if animals had souls they would need salvation. Animals don't have the ability to seek salvation. It's at this point that I shoved her bible down her throat, not literally, but I brought her God to her mind, I said, God is God, he can do whatever he wants, so therefore he can make animals go to heaven with no need of salvation, NOW CAN'T HE! She agreed, God can do whatever, but still maintained her position. Damn I dislike people bringing their God into the workplace!

What's my whole point of this post? Expect a lot of believers to shoot you down fast with a lot of biblical text. I myself am a believer, in Jesus/God, just not the whole bible thing and definately not in religion. Being born and raised Catholic, I realize that religion is a fear based tool to keep people in line. Religion=Fear.

Enough said in my opinion.

Originally posted by Cowgirlstraitup7
This woman who wears a wooden cross around her neck and carries the bible in her purse to work everyday said that animals do not have souls. I said jump back (bad b word) yes they do. She said no they don't, I said how do you know, she said the bible. How so? Well if animals had souls they would need salvation. Animals don't have the ability to seek salvation. It's at this point that I shoved her bible down her throat, not literally,

Good on ya, I would have done the same thing

Another example of their faith being the only proof they have.

One of the common mistakes in examining history is to see it through a prism of our modern experiences and beliefs. Traditional Judaism (and by extension Western religious dogma) was birthed in a time and place in which attitudes and expectations were much different than our own. It’s so easy to criticize the establishment of Western religious beliefs from the ease and comfort of our recliner and laptop computer. But try to relate for a moment to the perspective of the early Israelites: various tribes, clans and city-states all vied for control in an endless series of confrontations in which defeat could lead to extermination of one’s respective culture. Failure of social cohesion could lead to a cultural group literally disappearing ( where are the Philistines and Moabites now?).

So then, what natural motive provides for the easiest cohesion of people? Answer: Fear.
Therefore, the early Israelites used fear as a keystone of their faith. Numerous examples of the application of this appear in the Old Testament. Fear kept the Israelites together: Fear of the Egyptian, fear of the Babylonian, fear of the other tribe beyond the horizon that had strange ways and customs. That fear continued to be a factor into the time of Jesus. The omnipresent Roman Empire had subjugated and oppressed the Jewish people through sheer brutality. Jesus was only responding and reacting to the forces prevalent in his society. This fear was well justified by the actions of the Romans in 70 A.D., with the near total destruction of the Jewish state.

Now then, we (speaking from a Western perspective) are inheritors of this religion which was incubated in a womb of fear. The threads of that fear are so interwoven with the cloth of our souls that they cannot easily be extricated. In fact, attempting to remove such threads may unravel the whole fabric – the mere thought of which induces more fear. Does that justify the clutching of such fear in our modern thought? Maybe not. But it cannot be so easily dismissed.

Everybody has their own opinion. What's worse is everyone thinks their opinion is as important and truthful as the next person's. How egotistical and gullible. What few of you really trully understand is the "FACT" that God intended to put this generation in a stupor. He intended for this generation to be asleep;entangled with idols; The people of this country and indeed the peoples of the entire world are purposley put to sleep when it comes to the knowledge and awareness of the end times and antichrist. The only people who know are the true servants of God. And there are not many. And even they have not been given much of a platform because God does not want to awaken you people. He wants you to be taken in a snare. The reason for this is because we are mad upon our idols. And we have forsaken the paths of truth. There will be a time for the people to see what has befallen them. Two witnesses are coming that will be the terror of the antichrist and all who follow his lead. There will be a time when a person can choose to turn away from the antichrist and this beast system but it will, more often than not, mean a martyrs death. Antichrist is already upon you and you do not recognize him because of the stupor. You will recognize him when he blossoms into full evil. But it will be too late. cantyousee

Originally posted by cantyousee
Everybody has their own opinion. What's worse is everyone thinks their opinion is as important and truthful as the next person's. How egotistical and gullible.

Just like yours - you've just become the victim of your own prediction; have a nice lifetime.

Anyway, i'm of the opinion that something equally as important as what has been discussed has been ignored.

And this, in a single sentence, is as such;

People are Afraid of admitting they are Afraid.

Now granted, a simple sentence highlighting my belief on the matter probably won't tickle those curious human artifacts known as brains too much, so i'll just add that people are afraid of change, and subconciously acknowledge that - perhaps because of their importance - they are afraid of admitting their fears, because it may bring unwanted change.

The issue IS NOT RELIGION, it's the reasons for why people do the things they do.

P.S: I'll happily contest with anyone over the extent of which fear can paralyse one's actions.

I might even go so far as to explain how.

[edit on 1-3-2008 by Throbber]

The only answer that i could give in truth would be the following. "At what time I am afraid I will trust in the Lord" David said those words when he was in distress and fear.
I have tried for several years to awaken people. Maybe I have been working against God's purposes. But you will find that the things of God are paradoxical.
People ask me accusingly. Why are you afraid? AS if I shouldn't be afraid because I am one of his. Let me tell you something. Anyone, sinner, saint,
prophet or alien, if they know what is coming and they believe it, it is impossible not to be afraid. Most of the Christian world believe they are going to be raptured up and not have to face Antichrist. There are only 144,000 who will go to the marriage supper of the Lamb. But as it is written, they are the first fruits. That means others are to follow in their appointed time. It is time for humbleness of spirit and a contrite heart before the Great Creator. I am in this boat with everyone else and I know not what mine own fate is but I kinow there is only one place to turn for comfort and I implore the lot of you to do it and do it quickly. cantyousee

Originally posted by degenerate oto
Yeah, it was a really dope post. The thing is, not to bash, but to fairly search for facts.
Not just the hearsay involved but actual facts that can be supported.
I've yet to see anything other than all literature involving the bible
that supports the idea that Jesus was an actual person, or that
anything in the bible actually happened.
Although, I am open to other perspectives.


Ok next stop, Islam and its discrepencies!

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For Ancient evidense of Jesus from non christian sources go to:
www.probe.org...

You can also go to www.gizapyramid.com...
There you will find the reasearch of Adam Rutherford. To make a long story short, this Great pyramid also known in Apocrapha writings as Enoch's Piller, is God's message in stone for a scientific age. The true meaning of the pyramid could not be known until the mid eighteen hundreds when precise measuring equipment was extant. I can also tell you that the "staus quo"Egyptologists of today do not want you to know this and they have went to great lengths to keep it under wraps. Thank God for the internet.lol

In considering the existance of Jesus the Christ of the New Testament you might want to keep in mind that 11 of the twelve Apostles, all save John, was cruelly martyrd in various ways for their story. I find it incredible that not one of them retracted their story in the face of death. If they had gotten together and made the whole thing up they would be liars. And most times a liar will say anything to save his own skin. Just some food for thought. cantyousee

I think we can chalk it up to language barrier.
comparing religion is just comparing language. science included.

If we could speak the truth, our language would consist of only numbers.

that is why so many people,(everyone who has taken a side with anything) have so many different perspectives on some any one point.

I feel ya though, I get into crazy debates with my lady all the time. a great learning experience for the both of us. (she is a christian and i dont think anything exists except god and anything else is the devils illusion.)