"No Health Benefit" From Prayer

hey guys i came across this article on an athiast site i found and i found it to be very very intresting my view is i knew prayer dident work now tell me how could it putting to hands together and praying if something does happen its coinsidence it wasent god but some ppl think it is thats allright what ever makes them sleep @ night but here is the article link and source

Enjoy!

Atheist Empire Artical

Before their operations, they were randomly split into two groups, and half were prayed for by Christians, Jews, Buddhists and Muslims. However, checks revealed they had fared no better than those not prayed for.

[edit on 18-2-2008 by SaadAdam]

Totally bogus research. This article sounds really biased. Personally, I know that prayer can do wonderful things. The pesky Atheists are after us again!

They obviously weren't doing it right.

It's more the power of positive thinking than prayer. It has been proved that optimists heal quicker after surgery.

MonKey

It is always interesting to read things like this, especially since the BBC reported three years earlier "Prayer works as a cure".

I guess it comes down to believing or not.

nice thoughts.

i rekon its all in the mind its chance and just luck or just science if no prayer things would still be the same with or without prayer thats my view

Here is a thread that explains in detail how prayer really works...

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Originally posted by TLynn
It is always interesting to read things like this, especially since the BBC reported three years earlier "Prayer works as a cure".

I guess it comes down to believing or not.

yeh bbc did post both but each source was from a diffrent place probely the scientest from the us that said it works were religous so thay had to add its a cover up probely maybe or maybe not but dont forget religion is controling so offcourse it will be on bbc

A similar experiment was conducted by the Templeton Institute, a Christian organisation, which split patients into three groups:

1. Those who would be prayed for, and knew it.
2. Those who would be prayed for, but did not know it.
3. Those who would not be prayed for (the control).

A list of patients names to be prayed for was distributed to churches around the US and the result was that there was a negligible difference between groups 2 and 3, but group 1 showed a notable worsening in health. It is almost as if they knew they were being prayed for and so gave up, relying on god to do it for them.

In my own experience survival rates amongst those that are prayed for and those that aren't are identical. "Miracle" recoveries do happen, but no more often to those offered prayer than to those not and equally some people die suddenly, for no apparent reason.

I also know about a study that shows the oposite - that prayer/meditation is helping health. My mom for example was expected to get blind and she started to loose her sight as predicted by doctors. At a point she lost half of her cappacity to see. She was also predicted to die within 2 years (eyes cancer) .An eldery man from the local church come to pray for her while she was sick in bed. She was perfectly OK within 2 hours after this , and she can see even to our days. She went back to the doctor after several years, and the doc was shoked claiming out loud " wow, I see gosts"! This was a true story in my fam, i guess there are a lot of them like that - and a lot of them are well doccumented.
So I have to disagree that prayer in faith does not make any difference.

[edit on 18-2-2008 by sty]

So I guess then that mediation, positive thinking, reflection and contemplation aren't worth anything either?

Somebody should tell those Buddhists they're all wasting their time as per this study.

I can't believe the time and money that still goes into nonsense like this. If it works or not, if there's a spaghetti monster or not, who cares? Either case either way is not going to change anything for anyone.

Had to add: even placebos work. Every study double-blind or otherwise using placebos has shown positive results from the placebo group.

[edit on 18-2-2008 by thisguyrighthere]

Originally posted by sty
I also know about a study that shows the oposite - that prayer/meditation is helping health. My mom for example was expected to get blind and she started to loose her sight as predicted by doctors. At a point she lost half of her cappacity to see. She was also predicted to die within 2 years (eyes cancer) .An eldery man from the local church come to pray for her while she was sick in bed. She was perfectly OK within 2 hours after this , and she can see even to our days. She went back to the doctor after several years, and the doc was shoked claiming out loud " wow, I see gosts"! This was a true story in my fam, i guess there are a lot of them like that - and a lot of them are well doccumented.
So I have to disagree that prayer in faith does not make any difference.

[edit on 18-2-2008 by sty]

Equally a colleague of mine died after a long illness despite being a devout christian and being prayed for. One case does not constitute proof.

There is no such thing as luck, chance, or coincidence. It is also impossible to usurp God's will. The only thing that can truly be prayed for is God's will to be done. Seeking God's will and doing your best to live within it is the key to spiritual, emotional, and physical health, imo.

Nothing less than total surrender to the will of God through His Holy Spirit in the name of His Son Jesus Christ can save a soul from eternal damnation.

the article is definitely biased... the source is not one that i would look to for information on the positive effects of prayer (do you honestly think that an atheist website would post a study saying "Prayer is Proven to Benefit People" (thats rhetorical) of course it wouldn't it would disprove everything they believe in. i did a research on the effects of religion and spirituality on one's health and their was overwhelming evidence citing that it helped everything from recovering from surgery to helping with mental disorders. as a result, i would not believe the study you found on this website.

raptor1

think about it this way if prayer works then if your sick dont go to the docter because god will help u you dont need a docter because a docter is science and technology and u guys want god to help no? well most of u do because the ppl that actualy help are docters i dont see any way how god helps us in anyway? if u guys have proof he helps us show me because no one has proof of it

saadadam i'm not trying to tell you that science is 100% wrong... i'm working towards being a neurosurgeon i believe a lot in science. but the research does prove the praying helps out... and in some case -often mental health ones- it has been proven to cure or aid a person as much as psychotropic medications... so yea

raptor1

Well it may look that way, but people that know nothing about prayer are the wrong people to select groups to pray. If you look at several differing groups only a small portion of each group is truly effective in prayer. Why? Well there are many reasons. If you really want to know why do a search on a list of the classic miracles and see which groups profess to perform them, then go deeper and look at subgroups, that are actually effective in performing them, and then determine what the common links are in the dis similar religions.

If you get a copy of an old book called Mystics at Prayer, the first five pages tell how to be uniquely successful with it. The rest isn't really too interesting though.

I have seen the benifits first hand in the pediatic ICU. More than one time in fact.

Lets put a few cards on the table. Im an athiest so do not have any real relgious angle here.

One of the most memorable cases involved one child who was of Hmong decent. This was a child on full file support, Monks would come in and chant at his bedside for hours at a time. During that time there would be discernable improvements in his vital signs, a lessening of the support required etc. This was while he was in a coma mind you. As he got better, his overall strength and determination would be boosted by thier arrival and time there. It no doubt helped him recover

Another was a child who was a Jehova Witness. He was less sick that the other but still in pretty bad shape. His prayer group would come and have group prayer and he would participate (Even though he had a breathing tube in he was awake) etc. Again his condition imporved.

Divine intervention? maybe but in looking to debunk the intervention of a diety, we often can see our personal bias creep in.

What you really have to look at was what that person beleived in and not your own personal beleifs. For these two and many others, prayer, which was an important part of thier lives, effected them.

It comes down not to if there is a god or not, if he is listenting or not, who prayed for him or not, but rather a persons own spiritual beliefs.

Originally posted by raptor1
saadadam i'm not trying to tell you that science is 100% wrong... i'm working towards being a neurosurgeon i believe a lot in science. but the research does prove the praying helps out... and in some case -often mental health ones- it has been proven to cure or aid a person as much as psychotropic medications... so yea

raptor1

maybe thats because thinking it will makes u think positive but if your an athiest u would think good anyway no? i am athiest i am all good god aint needed in my life and i am doing to fine more then any religous person i ever known lol answer that 1?

reply to post by FredT



disagree with that not spirtualy oki if an animal gets injured do u think it prays or gos to church its depending on its life not a higer being animals are like us exactly we have just over did our selfs with all this religous bongo that makes no sense and wene it does its common sense i will never believ that prayer works and also if thay prove it it was proven by religous ppl or a way to hide that religion is fake offcourse its fake its been fake since the bigining of time we just wernt there to see it hehe see the sun as god lol

You are praying to something that does not exist. Pray to the bottle of milk and it will give you the same results.Meditate and concentrate your brain on the damaged part of your body and visualize the pain, then visualize the pain going away do not spend your whole life praying to the milk.