Chemtrails Over Los Angeles

here mr weatherman is a picture of a contrail being left about 30 seconds after a chemtrail along the exact flight path.
I also live in the L.A. area , the Santa Clarita valley which is the next valley north of San Fernando valley directly under the final approch of Burbank, Van Nuys and quite often Whiteman airports depending on wind direction.
Speaking of hellicopters ,last night around 11:30 P.M. 4 of what sounded like chinook's flew directly over head towards San Fernando valley which is a very rare thing to happen around here at night. Did anyone else happen to hear them ???????
The rumor from the caretaker at the Little Rock Dam out in Antelope Valley is that there is a huge fenced off area south east of the dam where all of the hellicopters from Edwards are being housed while some underground construction work is being done, does anyone know about that either ?????
And yes ,,,,,, A.T.S probably is one of the greatest site's to ever be brought to the web. I feel that observers and critical thinkers are lucky to have a place to gather and compare notes, pictures,video,stats,fact's and experiences in a civilized manner. I feel lucky to have stumbled across this site...

[edit on 18-2-2008 by ironman433]

[edit on 18-2-2008 by ironman433]

[edit on 18-2-2008 by ironman433]

Originally posted by wingman77
I was suggesting that scrambling a jet from an airfield to intercept the flight path of a suspected chemtrail would probably be prohibited and the costs of such a program would be astronomical for a small group of concerned citizens.

This is all in your head. The only thing hindering you (and by you I mean anyone) from doing that is your inability to fly. Again, where are you getting that such a thing would cost money? Unless you don't already have an airplane.

It is possible that China/Russia could collude with the U.S. government in a wide ranging program of spraying for whatever reason, the new world order could be a reality.

If this was some NWO plot, I seriously doubt they would be spraying chemicals from that far up knowing good and well those chemicals would NEVER reach the ground. And even if they did they would be extremely randomly distributed which would be putting their own people in danger.
If this is some NWO plot then these all powerful people are the absolutely stupidest people on earth.

Judging from your hostility and avatar 'ThatsJustWeird'

Absolutely no hostility here and "ThatsJustWeird" on a conspiracy site seemed fitting.

it's likely that you wouldn't consider that the U.S. government could ever do any harm, but I won't make any assumptions.

Your logic....well, I wouldn't even call it logic...your way of thinking in this is extremely flawed. How the ( ) could you deduce that I don't think the gov. could ever do any harm based on what I have written here??? Get real man.
Was this some sort of weird attempt at a joke? I honestly can't phantom how you could possibly think that. Simply because I use common sense when it comes to "chemtrails?"

Incredible...

Trolls keep us on our toes.

Now who's showing hostility, lol.
That what you call everyone who disagrees with you? A troll? Despite the fact they've been here way longer than you?
Newsflash my friend, not everyone is going to agree with you...

Edit: Nor agree with me. That's why this board and others like it exist. To discuss issues where there is disagreement. Hopefully in a rational way.

[edit on 18-2-2008 by ThatsJustWeird]

Was this some sort of weird attempt at a joke? I honestly can't phantom how you could possibly think that. Simply because I use common sense when it comes to "chemtrails?"

Incredible...

So then for my own mind please tell what part of the picture above makes no sense to you?
I feel that I also have an over abundance of common sense and the way I have aquired it is directly related to listening instead of talking when intelligent people are speaking. you seem very level headed from your post and I willingly antisipate your your response with an open mind " and i'm not being sarcastic in any way " .....
When this picture was taken i was with a retired engineer from a company called Litton who dealt in aerospace . He was viewing it thru binoculars while i was snapping pictures. what he called a chase plane is the aircraft that is leaving the con trail in the photo.
The aircraft that left what i will call the chemtrail was approx 30seconds ahead of the second aircraft at a slightly lower altitude " I know this because the second aircraft slightly crossed path's with the leading aircraft " ...
I beg you to show me where the flaws are in my thinking so maybe i can see this whole subject in a whole different light.. that is a sincere statement and not a sarcastic bunch of B.S.

Originally posted by ironman433
So then for my own mind please tell what part of the picture above makes no sense to you?
I feel that I also have an over abundance of common sense and the way I have aquired it is directly related to listening instead of talking when intelligent people are speaking. you seem very level headed from your post and I willingly antisipate your your response with an open mind " and i'm not being sarcastic in any way " .....
When this picture was taken i was with a retired engineer from a company called Litton who dealt in aerospace . He was viewing it thru binoculars while i was snapping pictures. what he called a chase plane is the aircraft that is leaving the con trail in the photo.
The aircraft that left what i will call the chemtrail was approx 30seconds ahead of the second aircraft at a slightly lower altitude " I know this because the second aircraft slightly crossed path's with the leading aircraft " ...
I beg you to show me where the flaws are in my thinking so maybe i can see this whole subject in a whole different light.. that is a sincere statement and not a sarcastic bunch of B.S.

Why do you assume the plane that was ahead left a "chemtrail?"
How do you know that is not a contrail?

I'm not getting what's unusual about that picture....

If as you claim the first aircraft was at lower altitude (which is extremely hard to tell from ground level) then that would mean the first aircraft is descending, otherwise we would not see the condensation.

Which brings up another question. We see these contrails (and what some would call chemtrails) because the air up there is supercooled (usually after a cold front and/or under and area of high pressure). What chemicals are they using that could survive such harsh conditions and still be effective?
I don't think people realize how much energy and all the mechanics that have to take place for it to rain or snow (for that rain or snow to reach here at the surface). Kind of difficult to see how chemicals spread that far up with no energy to them could possibly affect any level which living organisms inhabit.

I live in salt lake city I have seen a big increase of stuff exactly like that. really low in the sky and it seems to come in mid morning(before 11am). Here is a picture.

ttp://i258.photobucket.com/albums/hh278/ATSPICSNOW/Picture033feb.jpg

Here are a couple of videos:

German News claims 97% sure that military is creating chemtrails






Here is one of the planes that I believe does government research.




Edit for 97% on top video only. Thanks SGIP.




[edit on 18-2-2008 by seawolf197]

Originally posted by wingman77
I don't claim to know what is being dispersed, if anything, but I am open to the idea that it may be happening. They could be spraying inoculations, sodium iodide (cloud seeding), metallic nano particles (e.g. radar chaff), viruses (population control), psychedelics (mind control).

They wouldn't go through all that trouble to drop huge amounts of chaff over a populated area. Some chaff that is used by the military is harmful to the environment as well as humans due to size of the strands. They can be inhaled, enter a water supply, land in rivers or creeks, and cause who knows what kind of trouble with the wildlife. I was in the air force for 6 years and worked in munitions. At Little Rock AFB a while back there was a public outcry from some of the farmers in the community because a C-130 dumped all it's chaff into this guy's feild. Some of it ended up in the irrigation ditches in this guy's feild (bad for a few reasons).

There was also a small creek near the base which was found to have chaff in it (from the same aircraft?). I remember when we used to pack the mods with sticks of chaff for the aircraft and if the cap comes off one of those chaff sticks, it's nearly impossible to get it back on. Chaff gets on EVERYTHING too and it's impossible to get all of it off (it's like asbestos in a way).

It could very well be cloud seeding, but why would that be kept secret? It is common knowledge that the U.S. is one of many countries with active weather manipulation programs.

What would the government stand to gain from innoculating the community also? Mind control doesn't seem very likely or how could everyone in that area be worried about it? If they could really control your minds, wouldn't they keep you from talking and/or thinking about it? I dunno, I get the feeling that something is really going on here but exactly what is the million dollar question. I gues it could simply be experimental weather manipulation (being kept secret).

-ChriS

That's an interesting picture Ironman, a persistent contrail right next to a normal contrail that is fading rapidly. It is difficult to judge the altitude difference between the two flight paths, but judging from the similarity of size of the contrails they may be close.

ThatsJustWeird, I apologize if I offended you, it wasn't my intention. I also realize that people here on ATS may or may not disagree with me. I only use the term troll when it seems that a user is trying to antagonize others.

reply to post by seawolf197

First of all, the German Government has NOT admitted creating chemtrails. Here's the article to which you are probably referring in which and INVESTIGATOR claims that Germany admits this -- The government never admitted anything. That's like saying this thread is an admission by the U.S. government about Chemtrails.

Link: German Government - Chemtrails

Secondly, that plane has been explained quite a few times on ATS -- and it is NOT a plane for spreading chemtrails...it's designed for SAMPLING the atmosphere for research purposes testing for pollutants from dirty power plants and such.

Link: Pollution Research plane


reply to post by ironman433

Since it is very possible for two planes traveling at even slightly different altitudes to produce different contrails (one persistant and one not) then I don't see any reason why your photo just couldn't be two normal everyday contrails.

[edit on 2/18/2008 by Soylent Green Is People]

It almost seems like they may be flying over certain areas like in a grid. What specific areas are they flying over?

It's very important to remember the skies over the United States are very crowded with regional, cross-country, international, military and private aircraft. That amounts to a lot of planes over the sky at any given time. All having different paint schemes and can even "look" unmarked. Heck even some Helicopters that are black appear "unmarked" but that doesn't mean they are.

It's also important to know that at certain altitudes, depending on the air temperature, contrails can themselves spread out, looking to be like "chem trails".

I don't really take much paranoia in looking up and seeing contrails everywhere over a busy city because of the amount of air traffic and what atmospheric conditions can do.

It is kind of depressing how contrails though can cause the sky to become rather cloudy, do I think this is a conspiracy? No.. but I think it's a problem we'll eventually get over.

That's just to explain away a lot of the paranoia people experience when they let themselves get carried away by the "chemtrail conspiracy".

What you're posting (and CONSIDERING you are near LAX) appears to be contrails and not chemtrails. Don't let you mind run wild or else you lose touch with reality.

reply to post by Soylent Green Is People


Point taken. It was 97% pretty sure the military was doing it.

If you would have taken the time to read the caption above the second video. I clearly stated it was a government research plane.

edit for sp


[edit on 18-2-2008 by seawolf197]

Any way you look at it, it's a lot of pollution which isn't a good thing...

reply to post by ThatsJustWeird


thank you for your response.
as for judging which aircraft was higher in altitude my earlier post had stated that my retired aerospace engineer freind was watching thru his binoculars and in return obviously had seen the aircraft with the contrail " that is seen in the picture " pass over what i will still call the chemtrail that the first aircraft left approx 30 seconds before. not very hard to judge when your watching it thru binoculars.
now please explain to me how the lower aircraft would leave a contrail that stays in the sky significantly longer than the aircraft that is higher in altitude and in an obviously colder enviornment. i'm not real clear on that one.
as for innoculation's or seeding the sky's or creating crosshairs in the skie's that are used for sattelites to use as target's for photograph's or laser weapons or any of that stuff i'm not trying to say. all that i am talking about is the con or chem or whatever trails that are being left in our skie's.
and as for living near LAX and that being an aircraft decending for final approach for LAX that is not correct. turn to your Los Angeles TCA map in any pilots guide to california airports and you'll notice that the santa clarita valley is north of any approach to LAX and that the supposed 26,000 ft altitude where these trails are being left is far too high to get into a final approach for that airport....

[edit on 18-2-2008 by ironman433]

and as for living near LAX and that being an aircraft decending for final approach for LAX that is not correct. turn to your Los Angeles TCA map in any pilots guide to california airports and you'll notice that the santa clarita valley is north of any approach to LAX and that the supposed 26,000 ft altitude where these trails are being left is far too high to get into a final approach for that airport....

Ok, a number of things.

First, aircraft are filtered into airports via Standard Terminal Arrival Route (STARS) which can and will usually start a few hundred miles from the airport. I can name just one STAR that flys directly over Santa Clarita, California; KIMMO TWO ARRIVAL... and if you see planes flying in circles, it's because there's a holding pattern. There is a intersection defined as 095 degrees, 12 miles from Van Nuys VOR, 032 degrees from Santa Monica VOR, named DARTS. Aircraft are expected to hold at it. Now you know why airliners are circling above your head.

Second, Aircraft navigate by Jetways, VORS, and intersections. Major airports usually have a VOR to help aircraft approaching navigate when landing... But the same waypoints are also used by aircraft enroute. I can guarrantee that every single aircraft flying to one destination on the West coast to another destionation on the west coast WILL be flying over LAX one way or another... It's as simple as that. Go look it up on Flightaware.





[edit on 19/2/2008 by C0bzz]

reply to post by C0bzz

So in other words what you are trying to tell us is that an aircraft of that altitude flying above Santa Clarita California in an E NE direction or any direction for that matter could possibly be on a SOCAL APPROACH flight path and going to be handed off to LAX final approach ??? I highly doubt that sir. that statement will also cover your observation's of VHF OMNI RECEIVER's because that altitude is as i said is way too high for the LAX approach.
as for flying in circles i dont belive that was mentioned here , that would be a different thread .
now, if you want to be helpful to this thread you might try and debunk the photograph i posted here by explaining what flightaware.com's theory is on chemtrails and contrails .

Originally posted by jpm1602
Every, every contrail thread on this site has posters that attempt to dissect them.
I do believe they protest too much.

I do believe the chemtrailer protest too much - why are they so keen to promote their disinformation? Why do they hide the real truth about persistent contrails and the effects they have on weather and climate? Who are they working for?

Us debunkers will not give in until everyone knows the truth.

news.bbc.co.uk...

news.bbc.co.uk...

Originally posted by ironman433

here mr weatherman is a picture of a contrail being left about 30 seconds after a chemtrail along the exact flight path.

The 2 aircraft/trails are very clearly at different altitudes. which simple proves what we keep saying - that the persistence of contrails is dependent on atmospheric conditions which varies according to altitude and even spatially at the same altitude - as anyone who knows anything about meteorology or aeronautics will tell you.

reply to post by Essan


just answer the question clearly , how do you propose that the aircraft 30 seconds later at a slightly higher alt along the same flight path wouldn't leave a persistant contrail?
maybe you havn't read all of the way thru the thread but seem to know how to answer the question's asked in it...
but thank you for your tidbit's and advertising from ukweatherworld buddy.
this is hijacked from another thread but no less important nowpatft.uspto.gov.../50 03186&RS=PN/5003186now go ahead and tell that this patent isn't being used and why.. i'll bet your impeckable credentials at ukweatherworld qualify you to answer that...
i'm not asking for a whole lot here am i ? i only want some intelligent person answer my question's who doesn't have some stupid agenda like their web site in their signature as to promote it here on this site!!
and by the way i would imagine that i could buy a web site url that stated something similar and hope everyone would belive that i am some kind of authority on the weather also , do you think that would help my credibilty ???
unless you can show some kind of credentials that can be checked out and verified thru an accredited school i tend not to belive that you have any clue what the heck you are talking about anyway ESSAN. so save it for the gullable people ............

[edit on 19-2-2008 by ironman433]

[edit on 19-2-2008 by ironman433]

reply to post by ironman433


No, you missed the point entirely. Every single Airliner flying to a destination south of LAX to a destination north of LAX or vice versa, WILL be flying over the Los Angeles county.

how do you propose that the aircraft 30 seconds later at a slightly higher alt along the same flight path wouldn't leave a persistant contrail?

How do you propose to know and understand the altitude of an Aircraft by looking at it from underneath?

and by the way i would imagine that i could buy a web site url that stated something similar and hope everyone would belive that i am some kind of authority on the weather also , do you think that would help my credibilty ???

Essan has been here since 2004 and I can guarantee he knows far more about the Chemtrail subject and conspiracies than you. You have barely been here for 4 days, and act if you're some bigshot.

"STUCK IN THE MIDDLE OF 11MILLION YUPPIE SCUM", "FEDUP WITH YOU" and "AN ARMED SOCIETY IS A POLITE SOCIETY....."... only proves my point more. It's no wonder Conspiracy theorists are widely regarded as loonies.

[edit on 19/2/2008 by C0bzz]