"Gun Control is the Only Answer"

How long did it take for the Gun Control issue to surface on all these Killings?

Time to turn up the volume on "Deny Ignorance".

Guns are just the tools being used. What is the real underlying cause? Personally, I think it is prescription meds being given out like candy for mild depression. I will be starting another thread related to this topic. Let's explore the reasons that are causing this rash of chaos.

CNN.com readers sound off on spate of mass killings



Link to my other thread regarding prescription meds.


Anti-Depresants, SSRI's, Suicides, Rash of Recent Killings




[edit on 15-2-2008 by Realtruth]

All of these senseless killings in the US are actually the
beginning of the Manchurian Candidate Party. The Aliens
are simply testing out their strategies they have invoked
upon us all. Just wait for the Big Party to start.
ZOOMER

Check this out:

www.govtrack.us...

Now, my fav is this one:

thomas.loc.gov...:23:./temp/~bdPmeK::|/bss/d110query.html|

The first is the banning of assault weapons.

The second is the banning of hi-cap magazines. Check out the date of the second one. She put this up on 16 Apr 07. I read on another board that the House closed at 1400 that day.

16 April is when the Virginia Tech shootings took place. She was putting forth her bill right about the time they were filling body bags.

It is unfortunate when kids or regular people get killed by some nutjob with a gun. But look a Britian, They took away their guns, and now their knife related killings are higher than any nation. Taking away guns does not create peace. On top of all this, if the government tries to take away our guns, There will be a lot of blood in the streets.

It's not the guns, it's the people who use them. And what do those people tend to have in common other than being gun owners? They are mentally unstable, usually heavily drugged or just off the drug they are supposed to take, and they have major social issues. Now did the guns cause their mental instability, drug use and social issues??? I don't think so. Therefore imo the guns should not be blamed but the people themselves.

We're always looking for a scapegoat, someone or something to take the blame for actions but we never take the responsibility on ourselves.

As others have said, gun control only affects the good, law-abiding citizens. The criminals will still get guns regardless of the rules. Too bad Congress can't understand that yet.

Keep an eye out; I think the next big move for Congress isn't gun control, but ammo control. Make it hard to get the ammo, and the guns are useless.

Originally posted by jerico65
Check this out:

www.govtrack.us...

Now, my fav is this one:

thomas.loc.gov...:23:./temp/~bdPmeK::|/bss/d110query.html|

The first is the banning of assault weapons.

The second is the banning of hi-cap magazines. Check out the date of the second one. She put this up on 16 Apr 07. I read on another board that the House closed at 1400 that day.

16 April is when the Virginia Tech shootings took place. She was putting forth her bill right about the time they were filling body bags.

You guys there in the States will have the same gun laws that we here in Australia have and which were rushed through "suspiciously quick" after the 1996 Port Arthur Massacre.

Basically, all forms of semi-auto rifles and shotguns will be banned to evryone other than police, liscenced security persons, farmers that may have a need for one against predators to their stock.

Im not sure if in the States you need a liscence to own a firearm, (maybe someone can clarify this for me) but here you need to be liscenced and have a need for it. A need may be for sport shooting in a club, hunting feral animals and game.

You cannot own a rifle with a magazine capacity greater than 10 shots. Must be bolt action, thou the Remington 7600 pump action rifles seem to be ok ......for now.
When the pump action Remington rifles came out here, somehow a whole bunch of 30 round "banana clips" came into the country too, and by the time the feds found out, the black market on them went totally crazy and they all sold out in no time for heaps more than what they were worth.....makes you think where they might have gone?

All rifles must be locked up in a metal locker that is bolted to the floor and wall so you cannot easily remove it or get into it. Police randomly come over unexpectedly and ask to do a search and check to make sure your rifles are stored away safely. Only the owner is allowed to have access to the rifles.

Ammunition must be locked away in seperate container.

Failure of these rules will have your firearms seized and removed from your premises immediately and you shall be fined.

Handguns can only be owned if you are an active and participation member of a gun club.

You cannot carry a handgun anywhere other than in a locked container from your residence to the shooting range and back home again. If you get pulled over and police find the handgun in its locked compartment in your vehicle, and can prove that you did not directly go to or from the shooting range, then your in alot of strife.

Also, when you go to purchase your first firearm, there is atleast a 1month "cooling off" period, for instances where somebody might be angry or upset and go and get a firearm liscence and try to purchase a firearm, they have a month to hopefully cool down and rethink it.

Also, anyone with a criminal record cannot own a firearm of any kind for atleast 5 years and then if you still want one it goes forward to be reviewed where they can either accept your not a potential risk anymore or extend the ban further.

Aswell, if you are involved in any sort of assault, road rage or domestic or any kind that gets recorded, the police will be at your place removing your guns before you can even say WTF?

That's basically what we have here now, works well, I dont think we need any stricter laws as they are tight enough as it is.

The one law that I totally disagree with here in Australia, is that you cannot shoot anyone who may be uninvited on your property/land. If somebody is robbing your house and you catch them, you are not allowed to shoot to wound or anything like that.....that sucks!

anyway, just by 2 cents worth, it can only be a good thing for the US, also a database linked with the firearms licenscing department listing anyone with a prior criminal conviction or mental history to not be able to get a firearm.

reply to post by Melbourne_Militia


Well the only problem here in the US is that owning a gun is a very well cared and worshiped article in our constitution and no American patriot will ever, ever will allow that to be taken away.

Yes in the US you need a license to carry certain weapons.

reply to post by tac109


Anyone who thinks the point of gun control is total peace is a goddamned moron. There is absolutely nowhere that ANY gun control advocate argue that it'll end crime or end violence or any of the hundred other straw men conjured up in the NRA's monthly magazine.

The point is to lower gun crime. Not all crime. Not to bring world peace. Just to keep people from getting shot. Why?

Well I've never heard of anyone's grandma getting killed in a drive-by knifing, have you? Guns are fast and easy and often indiscriminate when used in crime. At least if the criminal is going to stab, that knife isn't going to be flying all over.

reply to post by marg6043


Thanks for that Marg,

Im not saying to "take away" the guns from owners there, they will still be allowed to own firearms, but they will have to change what firearms they are:

i.e. return your semi-autos and go buy bolt actions instead.

Here in Australia, after the new laws came in we had a "gun buy back" excercise, basically an amnesty for anyone to return their semi auto over the period of time allocated.

Heres a little write up on it -
www.guncontrol.org.au...

Gun Buy Back - Wednesday 29th July 1998
About 640,000 guns were taken in under the amnesty and buy-back scheme which operated soon after the Port Arthur massacre. Victoria was been the most successful state to call in its prohibited weapons. Before the scheme started the Victorian Firearms Registry records showed that there were about 750,000 registered guns in Victoria. About 210,000 were handed in because they became prohibited weapons. These were mainly military style rifles, semi-automatic and pump action shotguns and .22 low power rifles with 10 shot magazines. About 20% of those guns however were unregistered.

Thus 30% of Victorian guns were handed in by the end of the amnesty and this probably represents about a 70% success rate. The situation however in NSW and Queensland was nowhere near as satisfactory. There were probably almost 2,000,000 guns in those two states and we would expect that at least 600,000 would fall into the prohibited categories. Yet no more than 285,000 were handed in. This means that the success rate in NSW and Queensland was below 50%. This is a very serious matter but it's not hard to see why the buy-back partly failed in these two major gun owning states.

Victoria had mandatory gun registration for a decade yet NSW and Queensland did not had gun registration on rifles and shot-guns. This means that shooters in Victoria were aware that the Government knew what type of gun and how many guns each of them owned. In NSW and Queensland the government had little idea of these facts and we must presume that gun owners felt they could flout the law in these two states.

Of course a national gun registration scheme came into existence as one of the major gun law improvements following the Port Arthur massacre and we might expect that in NSW and Queensland, as guns become registered and hence their existence and their type become known to the Police, then gun owners will be forced to obey the law.

It is crucial that all six state and two territory governments make efforts to take in the guns which eluded the buy-back scheme. Viewing Australia as a whole it would seem that no more than two out of every three prohibited guns were actually handed in.

Prohibited guns can still be taken to police stations, but no fee will be paid.

I understand you saying there would be uproar, there was some here too, as people didnt want to be labelled criminals for something they didnt do and who were following all the rules and doing things right.

There will always be illegal guns out there, criminals will always have access to it, but it would be a first step towards taking some sort of action to reduce the large scale masscres that happen evry so often in the US.

If the shooter at the recent incident only had access to a 10 shot bolt action rifle, he would be able to "spray" people with bullets, and unless he was a good shot, I doubt he would have killed 10 people.......

do you see wher Im kind of going with this? Is just trying to minimize the risk.

Yes, you have to change the culture abit and that will be dificult but over time it can happen.

reply to post by worldwatcher


I've argued this point before, here

My opinion hasn't changed - if guns weren't so readily available, there would be more people alive.

Every study shows this, except the NRA's.

And, of course, they're not at all biased - in fact I'm just waiting for ben hur to turn up saying it wasn't the fault of the gun.

Insensitive, selfish arse that he is.

edit to say: ben hur = charlton heston

[edit on 15/2/2008 by budski]

Our government had tried many times to introduce legislation and yes we have weapons ban like you do, but is something about the constitution that even my retired husband said that only death they will take his weapon.

But we know that it will never happen, every year we have anti-gun groups looking for the right opportunity to get their agendas going but the support is not there.

2nd amendment reads, according to wikipedia:
“ A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. ”

also,
"The tradition of securing a military force through a duty of universal military obligation for all able-bodied males follows from the Elizabethan era militia in England.[1][2]

Militia

Where is the need?

There isn't a need, there's a WANT......

The shooter targeted the school because he knew no one was packin'.
If concealed handguns were allowed on school grounds there would be no such thing as copycat crimes such as this.

The right to gun ownership isn't for going ballistic on college campuses or drive by shootings. It's the right to defend ourselves against similiarily armed foes. As long as hostile governments, criminals, crazies have guns it's useless to bring a knife or baseball bat to the fight.

Those countries who have outlawed guns are going to be hard up when a Red Dawn situation occurs. How would the American Revoultion have turned out if Britain had outlawed gun ownership?

Gun control is the answer if your are a career criminal, rapist, home invasion criminal, bank robber, carjacker, child kidnapper, the list goes on.

The only way I'll give up my firearms is with an amendment to the constitution.

For you see the US Constitution IS the law of the land.

Roper

reply to post by Realtruth



pity the poor CNN respondents... their minds were made up for them through the Ban-All-Guns activists...

the lead sentence of the OP 'source' (which is the CNN poll of respondents)
says something inane like 'The only common thread is the availability of guns'............. i disagree

the 'Actual' common link or common thread with this event and the VATech or Columbine atrocities is ~ dranged psychopaths killing others ~


i think that the latest outrage was done with shotgun, a legitimate hunting weapon --not some sniper rifle or assault rifle that are argueably allowed to be purchased by anyone old enough with proper ID and money/credit



Hey, the world has been this way for decades.... why all the surprise?
If someone was intent on quickly killing people, black market guns are widely available for just about anyone regardless of mental stability
or past criminal records.
& black market guns are not culled fom legalized, store bought weapons
exclusively ! european & south american ordinance along with russian and eastern european & perhaps Israeli connected arms dealers have many wharehouses full of weapons to buy.


lets get real

i live in pa and have a ccw permit. in this state there are only 2 places i am not allowed to carry and that is in a federal building and a courthouse, but in a courthouse as long as i haven't gone through the metal detector and declare i have a firearm they must give me a safe place to check it in and then when i am done can check it out. schools? not sure. the law states firearms may only be brought in for educational or legal reasons. if i have a permit for protection i would believe that would be a legal reason. i'm sure many lawyers would love that fight. speaking of lawyers why doesn't anyone ever go on a mass killing of them? not like we don't have a plethora of them lol

and just because you have an automatic firearm doesn't mean you can just "spray" people- unless it is fully auto-you still have to aim and shoot same as abolt action. you just take working the bolt out of the equation. i can work my remington 700 30/06 almost as fast as my friends semi auto remington 30/06. diference? i am way more accurate. the recoil is what does it. as mine recoils i am chambering another round and back on target where as he thinks he can "spray" but the recoil makes it jump way off- so he still needs to wait for the recoil

i believe gun control means hitting your target

my 2 cents

I guess I am not surprised that this debate came about again like evry 10-12 days someone wants to ban guns..

just to let you know guns are not hard to make at all not at all most monkeys with a little training on the dremel tool the ability to measure and use a hacksaw
a little bit of steel you know like car axles 4140 4340 steel and you have your self a gun with very little hassle, or even better go to the plumbing store and get the right sized plumbing and again you have a very functional and with a little ingenuity very deadly and fully automatic firearm..

I guess my point is we can't make the whole world baby proof
and if you compare the amount of shootings to the amount of population growth
you will see that they are directly proportional to one another..

All of the data and gun laws will not bring back the ones you love and if you take them away people will kill with a car or bomb or some other deadly tool..

My father has always jokingly said I haven't owned a gun since I learned to kill with a car which makes more sense as they are far more readily available.

at any rate I agree that this is a sad time for many and it isn't easy to move forward but you can punish the many for the actions of the few

and one last thing like was mentioned before if you try to take away the guns in the US there will indeed be blood in the streets people just won't give them away I know that I won't and I will not assist in taking any either this week it is guns what will it be next week? no one knows and no one cares until it affects them..


Respectfully
GEO



[edit on 2/15/2008 by geocom]

reply to post by Roper


Yeah I agree I am just starting building a 50 cal bolt action and with that I can see them comin from a long way off lol.


Respectfully
GEO