Mountaintop Removal Should Be Illegal

It's hard to believe that this sort of coal mining, that people call "Mountaintop Removal", is still legal in the US!

These were once beautiful mountains that will NEVER be the same!

Ohio Valley Environmental Coalition (go to link for much larger and more pictures)

A massive dragline (above), dwarfed by the huge scale of the operation, at work on a mountaintop removal operation near Kayford Mountain, W.Va (click on link above for MUCH larger picture)



This sort of coal mining had slowed down to a crawl, that is until the Bush administration came to the coal mining companies rescue!

Appalachia Is Paying Price for White House Rule Change

In October 2001, the Bush administration intervened to change the focus of a federal mining study that was poised to recommend limits on the size of new mountaintop mines. And, in an internal policy change this spring, the administration promulgated guidelines that allow ditches dug by coal companies to serve as substitutes for streams that were being buried by debris.

"They call them 'clarifications,' but it's really all about removing obstacles," said Jack Spadaro, who regulated coal mines for 32 years as a federal mine inspector and senior mining safety officer. "They've made it easier for companies to dump mining waste into streams, and harder for citizens to challenge them."

Bush administration officials defend the new policies, saying they are in keeping with a national energy strategy that seeks greater independence from foreign sources without sacrificing environmental safeguards.

How can anyone look at what these companies are doing to these mountains and not think that this is wrong!

THIS is a video you must see to see exactly what mountaintop removal is and how it affects people that live near these areas.
Mountaintop Removal Movie from iLoveMountains.org


Appalachia Is Paying Price for White House Rule Change

In just over a decade, coal miners used the technique to flatten hundreds of peaks across a region spanning West Virginia, eastern Kentucky and Tennessee. Thousands of tons of rocky debris were dumped into valleys, permanently burying more than 700 miles of mountain streams.

It's a crime what these companies are doing, it's just a shame that all our politicians care about is the all mighty dollar (or now maybe the once mighty dollar). The coal industry has raised $9 million for Republicans since 1998.

Here are some more websites with info about mountaintop removal:

Mountaintop Removal Mining - Wikipedia

What is Mountain Top Removal Mining?

High Resolution Mountaintop Removal Pictures

Appalachia Is Paying Price for White House Rule Change

End Mountaintop Removal

[edit on 13/2/08 by Keyhole]

Indeed it should be. I have thought for more than two years of doing a thread on this subject. You have done a fine job.

For awhile, it looked like the practice would be banned, but as usual, the legal wrangling has kept the issue in limbo.

When I have time, I'll share tons of additional material on this subject.

Again, nice thread.

Great thread. Some excellent info there.

It boggles my mind that there are people who defend this practice. Anything for commerce, I suppose. Wheels must turn...

So...we can't mine coal now?

What're you talking about?

I think it is better to employ an American in West Virginia and bless them they are inbred than to buy oil from Obama's third cousin.

In case you didn't know. Strip mines must replace the earth to the original shape after the mine is discontinued.

I guess you support terrorism huh? West Virginian's for all their faults don't fly planes into buildings. Long live coal!

Originally posted by arius
In case you didn't know. Strip mines must replace the earth to the original shape after the mine is discontinued.

There is tons of evidence indicating reclamation is a joke. Moreover, have you looked at the extent of these areas in WV, KY, and TN with google maps? That alone speaks volumes.

New technology incentives are a much better choice than this obscene practice.

Originally posted by arius

In case you didn't know. Strip mines must replace the earth to the original shape after the mine is discontinued.

From one of the sources above!

Appalachia Is Paying Price for White House Rule Change

Coal industry officials also contend the miners are careful stewards of the land, strictly adhering to laws requiring them to rehabilitate sheared-off mountains by planting grass and trees.

Do you REALLY think they put all that dirt and rock back on top of the mountain?

But the environmental damage is hard to miss. In mining areas, the waste rock piles up in huge "valley fills" that are sometimes more than a mile long and hundreds of feet deep. They have buried more than 700 miles of headwater streams across central Appalachia, government studies show.

What is Mountain Top Removal Mining?

Mountaintop removal / valley fill coal mining (MTR) has been called strip mining on steroids. One author says the process should be more accurately named: mountain range removal. Mountaintop removal /valley fill mining annihilates ecosystems, transforming some of the most biologically diverse temperate forests in the world into biologically barren moonscapes.

4. Giant machines then scoop out the layers of coal, dumping millions of tons of “overburden” – the former mountaintops – into the narrow adjacent valleys, thereby creating valley fills. Coal companies have forever buried over 1,200 miles of biologically crucial Appalachian headwaters streams

5. Coal companies are supposed to reclaim land, but all too often mine sites are left stripped and bare. Even where attempts to replant vegetation have been made, the mountain is never again returned to its healthy state.

Originally posted by arius

I think it is better to employ an American in West Virginia and bless them they are inbred than to buy oil from Obama's third cousin.

Did you watch the first video I posted? Those were people who live near where this mountaintop removal is happening that were talking!

It would be better for West Virginia to have regular coal mines than these!

One of the things that the coal industry LOVES about this kind of "mining" is that it requires A LOT LESS workers than traditional coal mining!

And I REALLY don't think that the majority of the people living in West Virginia WANT this sort of mining!

Mountaintop Removal Coal Mining

One of the greatest environmental and human rights catastrophes in American history is underway just southwest of our nation's capital. In the coalfields of Appalachia, individuals, families and entire communities are being driven off their land by flooding, landslides and blasting resulting from mountaintop removal coal mining.

While the environmental devastation caused by this practice is obvious, families and communities near these mining sites are forced to contend with continual blasting from mining operations that can take place up to 300 feet from their homes and operate 24 hours a day. Families and communities near mining sites also suffer from airborne dust and debris, floods that have left hundreds dead and thousands homeless, and contamination of their drinking water supplies.

In central Appalachian counties, which are among the poorest in the nation, homes are frequently the only asset folks have. Mining operations have damaged hundreds of homes beyond repair and the value of homes near a mountaintop removal sites often decrease by as much as 90%. Worst of all, mountaintop removal is threatening not just the people, forest and mountaints of central Appalachia, but the very culture of the region.

And FINALLY!

Appalachia Is Paying Price for White House Rule Change

A growing number in central Appalachia despise it. A poll commissioned by a West Virginia environmental group this year found that opponents of the practice outnumber supporters by 2 to 1. "Opposition is broad and deep, traversing all demographic groups and every region of the state," said Daniel Gotoff of Lake Snell Perry & Associates, a Democratic polling firm based in the District.

Please WATCH this video!
Toxic West Virginia: Mountaintop Removal


[edit on 13/2/08 by Keyhole]

reply to post by Keyhole

I believe it is the law. I live in the Coal Region of Pennsylvania, and I can say, they do reclaim the land, at least here they do.

At least we don't import coal from someone named Habib in the Middle East. Coal mining puts food on American plates on American tables in American homes. If you have a problem with it, call your Congressman or Congresswoman.

OSMRE

West Virginia Coal Facts

Awards for Excellence in Coal Mine Reclamation

West Virginia Coal Association

Try nuclear power if you still have a problem with coal. I'm a proud user and supporter of nuke power.

Originally posted by arius
I think it is better to employ an American in West Virginia and bless them they are inbred than to buy oil from Obama's third cousin.

In case you didn't know. Strip mines must replace the earth to the original shape after the mine is discontinued.

I guess you support terrorism huh? West Virginian's for all their faults don't fly planes into buildings. Long live coal!

Dehumanizing people from the Appalachian mountain areas by referring to them as inbred is classic. Who cares what happens to "those" people, after all they are just ignorant inbred hicks. Judging from the sentence structure of your post, you don't have much room to cast aspersions.

The issue of mountain top removal/valley fill-in has little to do with energy independence, and more to do with record coal exports to China and corporate profits. Now, if all the mined coal was used specifically in the US for our electrical needs, then there might be a quasi-rational justification for such a practice. However, when the destruction occurs simply to bolster the profits of coal companies at the expense of native populations, it's simply exploitation.

As for restoration, it is possible to fill in a flat section of land to resemble it's previous state. Such a thing is simply impossible for a mountain. If, we lack the will to rebuild a pyramid, we also lack the will to properly restore a phucking mountain. Not to mention planting some crab grass and a few pine trees doesn't restore the native species.

Your entire post is so full of ignorance and arrogance it's disgusting. Those wishing to preserve their traditions and local environment from destructive exploitation by big multinationals are terrorists, and war is peace. The true terrorists are those favoring such abhorrent practices.

I would continue, but it would only become move vulgar and disrespectful, so I will stop here.

Find Out Your Connection to Mountaintop Removal

This website allows you to enter your zip code to see if you have any connection with Mountaintop Removal Coal.

What's My Connection to Mountaintop Removal?

After you enter your zip code, it will tell you your connection, if any, with Mountaintop Removal Coal and will also show you a Google Map where you can zoom in and see for yourself satellite pictures of the devastation that this sort of coal mining causes. They aren't the best satellite photo's, but ...

Your wbesite 'claims' my electrical provider uses coal, which I know to be false. It connects me to a coal plant in Sunbury, which is a good 50 miles from my house. I know they may sell electricity to my area, but I use nuke power, and only nuke power.

Seems kind of funny to use coal power to power a nuke plant, doesn't it?

I like mountains and such as much as the next guy, but what are we supposed to do, leave the coal down there? There's a lot of money in coal, and a lot of coal in this country.

I think Keyhole wants to make the poor buggers go into it and mine it the old fashioned way, safety and health hazards galore, not even to mention how harmful it would be to our energy industry.

Maybe Keyhole is connected to the oil or other competing energy industries and wants the price and demand for them to rise at our expense?

Sorry, starving children who need heat are a little more important than a pretty mountain.

reply to post by Keyhole


I agree it should be illegal.

However, that isn't going to happen anytime soon.

I have seen the destruction mountaintop removal does to a town (and the planet in general).

A group came to present at my previous university last year. What's sad is that most of the students who attended didn't give a rats ass about the mine. They were only there to get credit. As soon as the speaker was done, they all ran out.

I'm sure they had much more important things to worry about than some yahoos in West Virginia and Pennsylvania.

"Why should I care? Its not me or my family."

That's the kind of thinking that got us into this mess in the first place, as well as greed.

We just want to suck this planet dry of all its resources and 'cut and run.'

The whole freaking top of the mountain is taken off and the mine is dug where the dirt used to be.

The damage is irreparable. While coal companies may be legally bound to putting the dirt/soil back into the hole, it simply does not happen.

Those mines can stay open for years and years. It is not unlikely for the mine to change ownership as well. Over the course of that time, people move on and forget that they're supposed to fill the dirt back in.

A company who purchased it from the previous owner will claim it was the [previous owner's] responsibility.

Meanwhile, hazardous runoff from the coal mine gets into the water source and contaminates it.

A news story about local destruction.

Here's a few pictures of mountaintop removal you won't see on tv:


picture














Beautiful ain't it?




reply to post by Johnmike




Not that I ever really agreed with you before, but that is one of your more ignorant statements John Mike.

A). Why do we need to be digging for coal in the first place when there's countless alternative energies that are much more efficient?

B). Providing heat for 'starving children' does not need to be done at the detriment of an entire mountain. Nature should stay the way it was before we arrived.

If we designed our houses properly in the first place (South facing) we wouldn't need heat most of the year anyway regardless of climate.

If we insulated our houses with natural building materials, there would be no need for added insulation as well.

You seem to think because this is the way its done this is the only way to go about providing energy for this country.

We do not need to destroy a mountain to get power. That is simply wrong.

We do not need oil either, nor do we need natural gas.

Wind, solar, geothermal, and water power are much more viable and environmentally friendly than the aforementioned technologies.

Not only that, but it will create jobs in the process.

That's what you're about right, pro-business?

Well even your side of the table can be satisfied. Grudgingly I'm sure.

[edit on 2/20/2008 by biggie smalls]

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Not that I ever really agreed with you before, but that is one of your more ignorant statements John Mike.

Thanks. Let's see why.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
A). Why do we need to be digging for coal in the first place when there's countless alternative energies that are much more efficient?

Why? Do I even have to answer that? Are you that clueless about the energy industry? It's the largest source of electricity in the world.

If it wasn't efficient enough to make a difference, no one would use it. It's vital at the moment. I don't think I need to be explaining this sort of simple economics to you.

Why do we need to be mining for coal.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
B). Providing heat for 'starving children' does not need to be done at the detriment of an entire mountain. Nature should stay the way it was before we arrived.

You just basically said that a mountain is more important than the lives of human children.

Glad to know where you stand.


I suppose we shouldn't farm land, either? Or build anything? Christ, humanity comes so far to eliminate hardship and suffering and people still find a way to complain about it.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
You seem to think because this is the way its done this is the only way to go about providing energy for this country.

Not really. But for the time being, it's one of the best.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
We do not need to destroy a mountain to get power. That is simply wrong.

Holding human lives above a giant piece of rock is wrong?

And besides, the companies have to rebuild much of the land they destroy, as was stated here already. It's not like they're tearing the world to shreds.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
We do not need oil either, nor do we need natural gas.

I think a lot of people who use heat would disagree with you. I don't believe that you'd really say something so ignorant.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
Wind, solar, geothermal, and water power are much more viable and environmentally friendly than the aforementioned technologies.

And apparently they aren't even close to being workable enough to replace fossil fuels. I'm all for them, though, and nuclear power - but only when they actually work.

Originally posted by biggie smalls
That's what you're about right, pro-business?

No.

I'm pro-human.

[edit on 21-2-2008 by Johnmike]

Originally posted by Johnmike
I think Keyhole wants to make the poor buggers go into it and mine it the old fashioned way, safety and health hazards galore,

Well, it doesn't harm the environment as much and that is exactly what the people who live in these areas would rather see happening!

Residents Oppose Mountaintop Removal, Poll Shows

West Virginians oppose mountaintop removal mining and Bush administration efforts to weaken restrictions on the practice, according to a new poll to be released today.

The survey, by Democratic pollster Celinda Lake, found that 56 percent of West Virginians oppose mountaintop removal.

***SKIP***

“West Virginians know that the coal industry is using our resources for short-term gains at the expense of our future,” said Joe Lovett, an environmental lawyer and the center’s executive director.

Maybe Keyhole is connected to the oil or other competing energy industries and wants the price and demand for them to rise at our expense?

Nope, not connected in any way, shape, or form with "the oil or other competing energy industries". I'd like to see the prices lower in everything just like most people would.

Sorry, starving children who need heat are a little more important than a pretty mountain.

There are plenty of alternative energy programs that the money being used for Mountaintop Removal could be used for.

And you are among the minority in your stand on this issue.

New Nationwide Poll on MTR Released

A significant majority of people in the United States oppose mountaintop removal, especially when environmental safeguards are rolled back, a new national survey revealed

***SKIP***

Only 26 percent said they support the practice of mountaintop removal. However, after learning that mountaintop removal could result in the leveling of 700 additional mountains in the next decade, half of these people (45 percent) withdrew their support.

So, I beleive that would mean that only about 15% support Mountaintop Removal!

Nearly two-thirds (65 percent) opposed the Bush administration plan "to ease environmental regulations to permit wider use of mountaintop removal."

In addition, the respondents overwhelmingly (77 percent) support policies that focus first on energy conservation to reduce energy waste before resorting to more mountaintop removal coal mining.

The poll was based on interviews with 1,001 adults living in the continental U.S. between August 30 and September 2. It was conducted by the Opinion Research Corporation.

Do you like Mountaintop Removal coal mining because you have some sort of connection with it?

It sure seems like nobody else really likes it except the coal mining companies and the politicians whose pockets get filled by them!



[edit on 21/2/08 by Keyhole]

Dude, are you for real?

Originally posted by Johnmike
Why? Do I even have to answer that? Are you that clueless about the energy industry? It's the largest source of electricity in the world.

And your point?

APS (the Arizona power company) recently invested millions in creating solar farms.

We don't need to be using coal.

I don't think I ever mentioned anything about how coal provides electricity.

Does that make it intelligent, economical, or ecological?

No sir. None of the above.

I suppose we shouldn't farm land, either? Or build anything? Christ, humanity comes so far to eliminate hardship and suffering and people still find a way to complain about it.

Where did I mention that?

I'm a farmer so that's obviously not the case and I don't believe we should go back to the paleolithic.

Complaining? So because I don't like coal and what we do to mountains I'm complaining?

What's your situation?

One of the best sources of power doesn't mean the best.

We use petroleum as a fuel source, but that doesn't seem to be helping our economy any does it?

So I see you're all for local energy sources, but why can't we use alternatives to pollution causing ones?

The entire Southwest could provide solar power for the country, not to mention the Midwest providing wind power. We could also use underwater turbines to power the coastlines and microhydro electric and other technologies to fill in the gaps.

There are plenty of RENEWABLE energy sources that don't cost a thing to produce electricity and don't harm anything (people and otherwise).

Holding human lives above a giant piece of rock is wrong?

And besides, the companies have to rebuild much of the land they destroy, as was stated here already. It's not like they're tearing the world to shreds.

Where did I mention I value human life over a mountain?

Got a quote?

And no, companies do not rebuild the mountains they dig up. They leave it as is.

Look at the picture I provided. Those are currently not in use, but nothing's been done to clean them up.

One mountain at a time my friend.

I think a lot of people who use heat would disagree with you. I don't believe that you'd really say something so ignorant.

What does that have anything to do with the price of eggs?

I never mentioned anything about not using heat. We're talking about mountain top coal removal. Nothing more, nothing less.

And apparently they aren't even close to being workable enough to replace fossil fuels. I'm all for them, though, and nuclear power - but only when they actually work.

Completely untrue. Solar and wind are being used right now to efficiently (and cheaply) power thousands of homes.

Conventional power companies (like APS as I mentioned above) as investing money in these new technologies.

The problem lies in coal/petroleum burning plants that are already in use and the power of their lobbyists.

I'm pro-human.

I can't refute that, but your statement about coal is unfounded.

Do some research on alternative energy and the actual destruction extracting coal does to the environment before you assume we're doing some great work here.

Let me break my point down for you.

We do not need to remove entire mountain tops to provide power and heat for anyone.

That's it.

Mountaintop removal mining had slowed to a crawl before the Bush administration came to power and allowed these "mining" companies to just devastate the environment, now that it's the end of his presidency, he just had to "help" these poor mining companies out a little more!

Bush Ignores Clean Water Act in New Mountaintop Mining Regs

The latest in a flurry of environmentally-devastating, last-minute rule changes from the Bush administration will give the go ahead for coal mining companies to fill valleys with the mining debris left over from lobbing-off mountaintops.

Earlier this week, the EPA and the White House Council on Environmental Quality approved a rule change that will allow coal mining companies to lawfully bury stream valleys and fill them with the tops of mountains that have been carved off for the coal they contain.

For years, coal mining companies were allowed to file for exemptions to a 25 year-old rule prohibiting the dumping of fill from mountaintop removal mining within 100 feet of streams and were granted them the vast majority of the time. In practice, the government had essentially been ignoring the rule for years; now they have codified that ignorance into a regulatory standard.

The practice of mountaintop removal (MTR) has buried 1200 miles of streams in Kentucky, Tennessee, West Virginia and elsewhere.

I guess it's just all about "BIG" money to the Bush administration and the environment be damned!

It is hard to see how the new rule abides by the Clean Water Act which requires the federal government to protect all streams and rivers from being dumped in. Edward C. Hopkins, a policy analyst at the Sierra Club, said: “The E.P.A.’s own scientists have concluded that dumping mining waste into streams devastates downstream water quality. By signing off on this rule, the agency has abdicated its responsibility.”

Sierra Club executive director wrote, “This new rule is so bad that the governors of two of the most-affected states, Kentucky’s Steven Beshear and Tennessee’s Phil Bredesen, opposed it, Beshear saying it would increase pollution of Kentucky’s “beautiful natural resources.”
******SKIP******
The new mining debris rule will join a litany of Bush administration midnight regulatory changes that are particularly damaging to the environment, including a rule change permitting the development of oil shale and another that creates an exemption for perchlorate, a known neurotoxin found at unsafe levels in the drinking water of millions of Americans.

The Bush administration just amazes me in its sheer arrogance!

Found a new article I thought I'd add to this thread, ...

Almost Hell West Virginia; Where Is The Obama Administration?

John Denver's lyrics "Almost Heaven West Virginia" described the beauty of the Appalachian mountains, one of America's and the world's greatest natural treasures. Vast areas of those same mountains now are a landscape from Hell, as far from Heaven as one can imagine.

Here's a video that was included with this article, ...

Not having been on the ground in this lush American forest before -- one of the two most biologically diverse forests in the world -- my heart broke and my eyes filled with tears as local scientist Scott Simonton flew Daryl, myself, and Coal River Watch activist Benji Webb over a small area of the vast Mountain Top Removal (MTR) sites which now have destroyed over 2,000,000 acres of our nation's Appalachian forest -- more than 12% -- and buried over 3000 miles of streams and headwaters.

And the dangers this MTR poses to people living in these areas, ...

The toxic sludge produced from cracking the coal during processing has created tremendous bodies of toxic liquid waste, well over 100 billion gallons held back by nothing more substantial than walls of dirt presenting area residents with an ever-present apocalyptic threat far exceeding that of a nuclear holocaust during the cold war. The people below -- including the students and teachers at Marsh Fork Elementary -- have four minutes to evacuate before certain death swallows them whole, and there is no evacuation plan in any event.

And the destruction, ...

In West Virginia alone over 3.5 million pounds of explosives are used per day, 300 days a year (the 4th of July or Sundays are the only respite). Massey energy blasts the tops off mountains to expose the coal buried inside. Rocks fall like rain from the sky terrorizing residents in the valleys below and the force of the explosions literally causes homes to collapse.

"Almost heaven, West Virginia?"

Not all of it!

[edit on 6/30/2009 by Keyhole]

Originally posted by biggie smalls
We do not need to remove entire mountain tops to provide power and heat for anyone.

And it looks like we won't be anymore, ...

Environmental Regulations To Curtail Mountaintop Mining - Friday, April 2, 2010

The Obama administration on Thursday imposed strict new environmental guidelines that are expected to sharply curtail "mountaintop" coal mining, a controversial practice that has enriched Appalachia's economy while rearranging its topography.
******SKIP******
It was hailed by environmentalists but condemned by coal industry officials, who said it would render a technique that generates about 10 percent of U.S. coal largely impractical.

Hard, at least for me to believe, that these people were DESTROYING mountains for get to what only ended up being "about 10 percent of U.S. coal" in the US!

EPA Administrator Lisa P. Jackson said those "valley fills" will be curtailed. She cited new scientific evidence showing that when rainwater is filtered through the jumbles of rock, it emerges imbued with toxins, poisoning small mountain streams.

Jackson said the EPA will now instruct its local offices not to approve new valley-fill permits that are likely to produce a certain level of pollution in waters downstream. To mitigate those effects, mines could take measures such as storing rock away from streambeds.

But alas, it seems like the valley fills that already have permits will not be affected by this!

The EPA said it will seek public comment on the new guidelines, but that they will take effect immediately. The new rules will apply only to future permits, not to existing operations.

Wel, one small step has FINALLY been taken to end mountain top removal and the destruction it causes to the environment around them!

EPA Issues Comprehensive Guidance to Protect Appalachian Communities From Harmful Environmental Impacts of Mountaintop Mining

The Ending Mountaintop Removal: Obama's Biggest Accomplishment

UPDATE: Obama Ends 150-Year War of Strip-Mining in 24 States! Mountaintop Removal Loses Its Groove

New EPA Rules Clamp Down on Mountaintop Removal Coal Mining

[edit on 5/26/2010 by Keyhole]