Cop's Get New " Flashlight " Weapon That Sickens, Confuses Human Beings

Originally posted by eyewitness86
reply to post by BlueRaja

 

If the Seattle Police are the only one's that perjure themselves, then this is a real phenomenon!! The Chief oversaw thousands of cop's for almost 40 years. I think that gives him an inside edge on knowing what they likley are doing, yes? Of course.

Of course if YOU have more police experience than Stamper, you will let us all know what that is, right? Until then, it is likley that he is right. A REPRESENTATIVE sampling is a legitimate way of asessing whole groups: Scientists do it all the time.

Answer this question then- I'm in the military, so if I make an assertion, will you give me the same benefit of the doubt you're giving this indivual?
After all, I'm the "subject matter expert" so I should know a lot more about things military than you, right? Perhaps there's a group of people you feel you're the subject matter expert about. Would you care to make the claim that 99% of X group are liars?

reply to post by BlueRaja



It depends..if you were in a position in the military to know the inside scoop on a given subject, then YES I would give your opinion more weight than a civilian. However, if you are a cook and the subject is not a culinary one, then NO, you would have no more specific knowledge than anyone else, civilian or military..simple logic!!

As a Chief Stamper had far more insigfht than a street cop, as an administrator he had info that the rank and file would never see; reports, statistics, etc. Vast experience counts a lot. Hey, if Stamper is wrong, then OK. But I believe he is right. I have had a LOT of experience with this subject: The law and police behavior and I have NO DOUBT whatsoever that the vast lajority of cop's would not hestitate to lie on the stand if it mean winning the case.

Here is a personal example from direct experience: My daughter was in high school and one morning she and two girlfriends crossed the street from the school before the start of classes to have a cigarette. The cop that hangs at the school, a sheriff's deputy, was about180 feet away right in front of the school building. As the girls started to cross,a Corvette came fast around a bend and the girls thought he would not stop so they stepped back quickly to the side of the road.

The Driver managed to get stopped but had almost gone past them; the girls walked around the BACK of the car together, never even slowing down, at elbow's distance to each other. As they passed the car, the driver was glaring at them as if angry for having to stop in a school zone for students!! My daughter, who even then suffered fools very little, stuck up here middle finger at the guy and contined across the street.

When the girls returned to the school, the cop stopped them at the door. He asked my daughter " Did you flip that car off?". My daughter said" What if I did?" The cop then said " That was an FBI agent, and you are in trouble. My kid didn't say anything else and the cop let them go to class. Should have ended there. BUT, after almost an hour, the cop came and took her from class to the office and charged her with: Disorderly conduct for flipping the ' bird ' at the car..and for disrupting traffic.

I hired an attorney and we went to court. I was a sight to behold. First, the Prosecutor took the cop ( who was not even going to show for court and had to be summoned from a town an hour away) aside and heard his story. Then , he DROPPED the disorderly conduct charge because of course it is not illegal to flip the finger, even at a cop. He was trying to save face and not humiliate the cop too badly by tossing both charges so he tried to proescute the traffic charge.

My lawyer took about two minutes to lay out what happened. The cop was exposed as a liar, many times. First, he admitted that the driver of the car was NOT an FBI agent, and that iot was' sort of a joke' ! Then, he claimed that my daughter was alone!! He said he did not see the other two girls at arms length from her and that's the reason he did not charge all three with some offense. Then, he admitted that another cop lied also. At the school, another cop told my kid that he had witnessed the events as well and that she had STOPPED traffic while crossing the street!

It came to light under oath however that this cop was INSIDE the school at the time of the incident and could not have seen it. The fact that the charging cop had lied on the report was noted as well.Four lies so far. Then, when the two girls testified that they were with her and none of them ever stopped even for a moment, the judge started getting pissed.

Then, the cop was aksed if he knew what the statute meant, what it was for..he was clueless. It was embarrassing. If I had not spent 1500 dollars for the lawyer I might have had a tinge of sympathy for the fool. He thought that if ANY car was inconvenienced in any way that was enough. he had no clue about the real intent and meaning. It was so obvious that he was lying and caught that the court staff were hiding their heads knwing what was coming next:

The judge was so hot by that time that he asked my attorney: " Do you have any motions to dismiss?", and my lawyer said " Yes, your honor " and he banged the gavel and dismissed all charges and scolded the cop for 5 minutes. The cop was red eared and totally humiliated; it was wonderful to behold. CAUGHT!! Just seeing that lying dog getting his comeuppance was worth every penny.

This happens all day all over the nation; most cops operate exactly like the one in this case, and many times get off scot free by lying and perjury. Not this time!!

reply to post by eyewitness86


Given that set of circumstances, I agree with you, and I'm glad that cop got humiliated.

reply to post by BlueRaja


Here is th rest of the story: When the judge made his kove my daughter was confused and didn't know what happened. It ended suddenly and the cop was slinking redfaced from the courtroom, when my daughter turned to me and said " What happened?" I told her that the judge knew the cop was a liar and that we had won! She said, a little too loudly, ' He's a damned liar!!" The court clerk overheard her although the judge had turned away to speak to some one..some other courthouse emplyee heard as well and were shaking their heads ands scowling at us. I was moving my kid to the door as fast as possible when the Prosecutor said " Your Honor, will you hold her back?"..we were almost out the door.

The judge said " I am not holding anyone back..the officer admitted lying and her statement is a maatter of fact". I was elated to see that judge uphold the principles that matter. It was worth every cent just to see that look on the faces of those people..it was wonderful. Victory is sweet!!!

Here is the best part; a month after this happened I got a check in the mail from my attorney for $ 1000.00 and a note which read : " I did not spend as much time in court as anticipated as so am refunding 2/3's of your fee. As we discussed earlier, lying on the stand by police officer's is common and seem's to be an accepted pratice in many areas. I was glad to be of help..."

Can you imagine an honest attorney that refunds fee's because he didn't use all the time alloted? Most wouild never even blink..those attorney's are as rare as cop's that don't perjure themselves, I am sure.

reply to post by eyewitness86


Congratulations on that outcome. I'm not entirely unreasonable. I do have great disdain for figures that betray the trust of others, whether they're authority figures, employers, politicians, fellow servicemembers, etc...

reply to post by BlueRaja



The problem is that there are so many authority figures that WILL abuse their position that to even give them the benefit of the doubt can bhe a huge mistake. I assume that a cop is a lying , perjuring bully until proven otherwise. Most are, so to give them the presumption of innocence is to disregard the overwhelming mountain of hard evidence that proves that police misconduct is out of control in this nation.

I could understand if now and then a cop acted badly and was punished for it; things happen. But when hundreds of attorneys acrross the nation can make a living ( a very good living ) from NOTHING BUT misconduct cases, something is badly wrong. Yes? If most of the claims against cop's were not valid, then lawyers would not be specializing in that area of the law to a great degree; the lawyers go where the money flows..and it flows to those who can prove police crimes.

Raja, you seem to be a sincere, intelligent and polite person; I like you, I really do. We are not far apart I am sure on most issues; I tend to get more wrapped up in this subject because I have studied the law many years ago ( never took the Bar ) and because living in the south in a small town in the mountains of Appalachia I see a lot of unprofessional conduct by cop's, and it gets me angry.

But not only cop's abuse people; let me tell you what I am going thru right now, as we write: My son, 16, ( his Mom and I are divorced ) is in a camp type place a few counties over for kids that need help getting it together. He is a rebellious stage and acting out, and was resisting ALL authority, including mis Mom's and mine also. Many kids today are confused and have the same situations. I thought that making him toughen up and stop making excuses and learn how life really is would do him some good, and when he got in trouble the last time ( he lived with my ex for the last year ) I told him either it's juvvy or this camp.

He chose camp. He is trying hard and making it, although with minor issues. Last weekend, I found out that in mid January ( I was never even notfied) he was on a forced hike, and at the end he sat and was exhausted and had to reat. He is tall and skinny, weighing maybe 140 -150 soaking wet. The huge female counselor, weighing in at over 250 easily, and not all fat..a big strong woman, had refused to let him rest, and when he refused to get up and walk, instead of waiting or having another staffer stay with him while the othewrs went on, she simply reached down, grabbed him by his arm, and DRAGGED HIM ACROSS GRAVEL AND ROCKS UNTIL HIS OTHER ARM WAS RIPPED OPEN AND BLEEDING!!

They tried to cover it up ( they say it was a ' communications issue ') by stating on the report for the medical log ( they had to patch him up ) 'grabbed by arm'. It did NOT say' '..and dragged across stones' of course. Tbey were hoping he would heal and it would be forgotten. But when my ex saw the damage to his arm at a visit ( he only gets visits quarterly ) she became very upset, notified me and I got on the phone and made some calls.

Now social services has launched an investigation as well as the Sheriff, the camp admin. called me yesterday and told me that her conduct was totally unacceptable, etc. When I asked him why it took almost a month for his parents to find out, he tried to tell me that because the counselor that draged him didn't l;abel the log accurately, no one picked up on it. He admitted that it looked like a coverup.

The staffer has taken vacation leave while the investigation is going on, and I have assured all concerned that if social services does not charge her, I will. In NC if you are 16 or older you can sign a warrant yourself, and my son will do so if the system fails. His arm will be permeenently scarred, unless plastic surgery is done..and soon. You know what that means..a lawsuit is coming.

I told the admin. that I know the progeam is good, and they are a good organization, but that the staffer MUST be fired and charged before I will even think about backing up a step. I promised that if they do not do the right thing here that I will launch a campaign to humiliate them and force their financial backers ( the Ekerd Foundation ) to assess the actions of the admin. to see if he is taking care of the kids properly.

I am a pretty efectice pain in the ass when needed: I can get attention focused at the right places to get results. Pressure and publicity can do miracles. However, I want my son to remain and tough it out; as long as he is treated humanely he needs the discipline and to stick with a commitment until completion, despite what happened to him. I think he will come out of it better able to handle life.

He was so despondent after the dragging, injured and abused and scarred, knowing that his parents had no clue ( they are not allowed any phone calls, only snail mail ) tha he cut his arm to try and get attention to his desperation and had to be placed on suicide watch. Now that I have gone over there and seen him, and talked to him, he is better and will try and stay and work it out. BUT I made it clear that if the camp does not do right, and if this woman is allowed to remain, then it will be Katie Bar the Door and the fight will be on.

She WILL be charged criminally, and thats a fact. I can do it myself or my sone can, and we will. She will NOT be allowed to abuse any son of mine and walk away..no way. After court, if convicted, then the camp of course will have to fire her because if not I would shame them to the heavens until they did. A spotlight can be effective when trained on the target long enough; all it takes is the right person to notice. The admin. can see whats coming, and will say little, citing the open investigation, but we talked fopr an hour and I am sure that they will do the right thing; if not I am prepared.

So people in authority need not carry a badge to abuse and get away with it; they almost did in this case, but luckily we uncovered the event and exposed it. The camp should have called social services and the cop's as soon as it happened; that they did not makes them look bad from the start. But now he needs plastic surgery so he doesn't have to see his arm scarred for life , and I promise you I will not be the one to pay for it!!

I am contacting local lawyers where he is ( it is a few counties away from me ) so a lawsuit can be started, or at least a demand for payments for his injuries, both physical and emotional. I am tenacious and unrelenting most of the time, can you imagine me when my blood is involved? I am like a Plott Hound on a bear....and can worry them to death long before they hit the ground in defeat.

Authority is a terrible thing; it allows one man to take free will away from us, and that means that those with authority have a special obligation to be right and use only the best possible judgement at all times to safeguard our rights and justify the trust they insist that we give them.

Here's another example, also current: My other son, 13, who lives with me and his 19 year old sister, is severly disabled with Aspergers Syndrome, ADHD, ODD, PDD, and others . He takes four heavy meds a day. At times, he cannot resist impulses; if some other kid teases him, he may say " F--- You" before he has even thought about any consequences. He is a bit paranoid and assumes that people can tell he is ' different ' by looking at him, although this is not so. So if someone stares at him, or seems to be, he gets agitated wondering why.

The school system here is bankrupt and so is the mental health apparatus. Broken and gone, admitted by all. They have NO teachers that go to the home for kids that cannot socialize; they demand that they attend regular school so they can get the funds for the child; if they are not at school, they get no money for him. BUT, here is what happens when he acts out: They simply criominally charge him!!! Yes, you read that right. The school told me thgat because they have no funds for a teacher to go to homes, they are forced to refer all prolems to the courts. The charges get dismissed of course, becauee no probable cause exists to file them in the first place. it is a desperation measure.

If I keep my son home when the meds are reacting and he has issues, they will charge ME with truancy!!! If I send him to school and he acts out his disability, then they charge him with disorderly conduct, etc, and try to pressure the parent to home school them, thus taking the problem away from them and placing it on us. I am NOT a teacher by nature and not patient enough to do the job right. He needs an education ( he does academics well when not distracted ) and I am in a Cath 22; if I send him, her gets phony charges placed which I then have to have dropped.

They force attendance, and then when the inevitable happens, they turn it over to the cop's instead of doctors and professionals!! They simply want the money for other things: The high school football team gets new uniforms every year..the band travels all over..but yet the officially disabled get charged criminally when their disabilities become a bother to them. Think I have a full plate this month?

My point is that there are so MANY levels of authority in our society that it is impossible to not be under some other influence all the time, and if the authority is corrupt or uncaring, or broke, then we suffer. I judge authority this way: If the authority fails to do right, then they lose any ability to retain that authority other than thru force, and that is what we are seeing nationwide; More force needed to keep authoity that has failed to act responsibly.

I am NOT looking for sympathy: I am a tough old coot who loves a fair fight and who usually wins..but kids need help today to deal with reality.

Great thread folks- many contrasting viewpoints focused on the police machine in our great country!

I have seen both sides of this one, so I can be a supporter of both equally. Based on my limited experience, the door swings both ways.

Sadly, BlueRaja, many ex-service members that go on to become police take alot of the "baggage" they may have gotten in the service into civilian life with them.
In my state, many Army and Marine personell go on to State Police Academy. In my experience- these are the "good guys". They are educated, well trained, have a solid command structure, and are disciplined. I have a lead foot, a "USMC" sticker on the back of my truck, and a LOT of warnings from "Brothers" who became State Troopers. They simply have bigger fish to fry than a compulsive speeder.

On the other hand- ANYBODY can get a job for the county/ municipalities. The folks working the job at this level are (in my eyes) MUCH more prone to abuses of the system. I have seen the same scenario unfold in the courtroom that you have, eyewitness86. The major difference was that my little brother, after proving the officer a fraud, moved that perjury charges be pressed against the officer. It was done, he was convicted, and is no longer a law officer.

We as citizens need to PRESS these issues, whenever they occur. The checks and balances are in place already, and they are US!

Just so there's no confusion- I do not excuse bad behavior of law enforcement or military personnel. If someone is a bad apple, they need to suffer the consequences of their actions. Being in the military, and as a leader, it's my job to make sure people aren't screwing up. When people are screwing up, it affects the greater task at hand- the mission. When law enforcement screws up, not only are the rights of a specific individual abused, but the public trust of the entire profession comes into question.
When you embarass your organization and yourself, you then have to continuously try to earn respect, trust, and credibility back. This is unacceptable for those of us who are doing the right thing. It is what we call a training distractor. We have to waste time on PR, instead of what we need to be working on.