USA a threat against the rest of the world!

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Oh, that proof. It appears that your proof made a big deal of America being highest in NO2, but other than that, we certainly did not lead the way.

Being among the 'podium' most of the time isn't sufficiently enough?

BTW, did I ask you, when and where were you in America and for how long?

I never said that, I thought it should be obvious by the petroleum consumed by the USA, the traffic-jams given, air must be polluted. If you see it clear, who knows, maybe you are too used to it...

BTW: you didn't show me proofs of America doing its best to stop the pollutions levels. You stated that, didn't prove that.

It's your turn now: you move.

[Edited on 2002-12-21 by MakodFilu]

I say Either Guiness or Killians

Killians!

Could you quote where I said America is doing its best to minimize pollution? How can I say that we are doing our best, when I don't know what that would entail?

As far as the company I work for is concerned, you'd be amazed at what we do to minimize any ecological impact, be it air water or soil. Even the floor sweepings must go into the hazmat container as it might have contamination on it.

Below our facility is a beaver pond, and it is where water drains from our facility. That is what the E.P.A. uses to guage any contaminated runoff from our site. The pond is cleaner now than before the facility was built!
If there is an oil or fuel spill, we are to use our bodies as a block instead of letting the petroleum make it to the storm drains, which lead into a nearby creek and then from there a river.

I can't tell you how much money we spend replacing air filters in the paint shop or the hazmat compactor vent, but I would imagine you'd be impressed.

Every six months we sit through a day long safety/E.P.A. lecture. Half of the day is telling us how the statistics compared with the previous six months and discussions on how to further eliminate any pollution and haz-mat.

So, you've never been here, you just assume it must be pretty filthy? Oh, I see now.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Could you quote where I said America is doing its best to minimize pollution? How can I say that we are doing our best, when I don't know what that would entail?

Here:

'...No, the Kyoto Initiative would not have been good for this country or our economy, and as soon as you manage to get the majority of the world to our pollution control standards, come back and talk to us.'

So, you've never been here, you just assume it must be pretty filthy? Oh, I see now.

You surely want to make a real issue about that fact, conveniently ignoring you still didn't support any of your arguments with information. I did, like it or not.

Besides: do you know the Occam's Razor?

'one should not increase, beyond what is necessary, the number of entities required to explain anything'

...then assume the following (and I don't think it's going to be much difficult):

a) Your cities are populous...
b) Your numbers of cars per capita are high as well. There are an huge number of cars in cities.
c) Most of the cars are big ones. Big cars are heavy cars, and as so, consume lots of fuel.
d) Fuel combustion is one of the most air contaminating factors.

a + b + c + d = great clouds of NOx, CO, CO2.

As you see the air over the cities is clear, and you are *actually* there, we must assume you say the truth, but that leaves us with the problem of where is all that contaminated air. We have the following options:

a) Contamination clouds are so dense those not get to the air, but precipites over the streets.
b) Great winds take the cloud far away before it actually condenses.
c) Most citizens are so used to see the air polluted, they even don't realize it's polluted, but in its normal state.

Please, pick one.

...and don't forget to support your conclusions with some info. Thanks for your cooperation.

MakodFilu has never been to India..lol..Delhi and Bombay make LAs traffic jams look like a Sunday stroll in the park..

Boomslang

Sure, but that doesn't mean traffic jams don't occur in LA, right?

Please, don't go off-topic.

[edit]: BTW, looking for problems outside doen't seem the best way to adress problems inside, don't you think?

[Edited on 2002-12-22 by MakodFilu]

Originally posted by MakodFilu


Please, don't go off-topic.

[edit]: BTW, looking for problems outside doen't seem the best way to adress problems inside, don't you think?

Huum, I did a post in another topic, but I think that it will fit this topic at the perfection.

Former post :

" Do you know what MakodFilu ? May be that if the USA were " just " another dictatorship, like Cuba, North-korea or China, the whole world would be sad or happy ( it depends from your point of view ). Sad because they would have to find a new democracy to shout on it, or happy because they would be free to do what they want without anybody to hold them.

All these peoples who are shouting and barking against the USA, we don't heard them shouting and barking against Irak, Cuba, N-K, China..etc..etc...Strange isn't it ?

They are allways fighting against a democracy, but we don't see them fighting against reals dictatorship.

Thanks God, there is the USA and their Constitution. "

And for the kyoto Agreement, that's a big lie. It's just a new anti-US tool who's helping " well minded " peoples in their Holly Graal Quest. In this case, the " Quest " is to put the USA on their knees.

Ultra_phoenix:

AFAIK I just answered that past as well.

About dismissing Kioto initiative as easy as you have done... I don't think you have proof to support that. It's even ridiculous. But that's what you think. You have your rights to do so. But as you are European (AFAIK), please, give a chance for our good USA fellows to answer.

Originally posted by MakodFilu
Ultra_phoenix:

1) AFAIK I just answered that past as well.

2) About dismissing Kioto initiative as easy as you have done... I don't think you have proof to support that. It's even ridiculous.

3) But that's what you think. You have your rights to do so.

4) But as you are European (AFAIK), please, give a chance for our good USA fellows to answer.

1a) Yes I know, but I wasn't stafisfied of our answer.
And now, others peoples will have also the possibility to say what they think.

1b) " AFAIK " ? What's that ?

2) Proofs ? That's easy. Look on internet ( Like I did it ). You'll see wich country has the most higher pollution level. Wich country do his best to avoid pollution. Wich country don't care about environment matters.

And please, don't ask me a link. I can provide it,but it will be french linkS.

3) Yep. We are not in China , so, we can speak.

4) I give ALLWAYS a chance to the USA. Don't forget, I have a USA flag at home.

According to some documents I've seen it's a fact that US want to stay the only superpower on earth for as long as posible at all cost.

Whether you think it's a good or bad thing depends on your own view.

Maybe the USA doesn't want to rule the world, but they do want to make it a Democracy!

Oh and forcing the world into a democracy is of course democracy right ?

I don't believe we're still living in a democracy.
Say gooodbye to demo-cracy, say hello to Digi-cracy. I don't mind if one believe it or not, but it is true. TCPA/Palladium are just the start, in fact windows xp has some kind of mild Palladium technology implemented.

In other words, there is only a threat if you don't like their ideas. We're all gonna be controled digitally. It does have it's benefits, but it also has it's disadvantages and that is worse.

Hey TigeriS, what operating system are you using?

Oh, I see, now. You think I said we're the best at eliminating pollution. Well, I don't know. The ratio of production to pollution has to be taken into account, but once again, looking at other nations that are well behind in the technology, and have much less productivity on top of that; yes, I'd say we kick butt.

Your assumptions about the pollution from cars and your attempt to put into a formula proves nothing as well. Not everyone drives a gas guzzler, and the EPA controls that have castrated the vehicles of the raw power of yester-year make them much cleaner. Maybe you have personally seen places that have filthy cars and filthy air and assume we do, too.

What, by the way, would you have us do? Are we not allowed to travel? Is it only those who you deem worthy allowed to travel? Because we have populous cities we aren't expected to move about? Funny, from talking to many folks on the net who live in places like NYC, many own no auto as mass transit suits their lifestyle perfectly. Me, I need a car as there is no bus that will take me the 86 mile round trip for work.

Once again, you've proven nothing, only made wild assumptions about a place to where you've never travelled.

I remember as a kid, the air around Birmingham was absolutely pitiful. If you got tired of breathing it, you could take out your knife and slice off some to eat. Times and technology have changed, though. Birmingham, like most cities in the U.S., are much cleaner than what they used to be. Where's the city with the dirtiest air, now? Mexico City? Let's not mention New Delhi; a chemist buddy that travels there on business has described it to me. Aw, heck, I'm not going to take the time to list the places that aren't up to our standards of quality control. And, I see no reason for us to be held to the same standards as nations that do not have near the output as we. You know, places such as, say, the Canary Islands?

Originally posted by Doomsday
Hey TigeriS, what operating system are you using?

You can better ask what I want to use, because I don't have any choice, at work we must work with either Windows 2000 or Windows XP. I am a Linux or any other OS fan. But there are enought things I can't do without Windows. And even if I use Linux I won't escape TCPA/Palladium.

The only way to escape is to live without any electronics. But that will be pretty hard for the next generations. Look at the population, we are getting weaker and weaker, most of us don't even know how to grow fruits or any other food. We are dependent on others. And that'll eventually "kill" us.



[Edited on 24-12-2002 by TigeriS]

Originally posted by Doomsday
Maybe the USA doesn't want to rule the world, but they do want to make it a Democracy!

My country is a Democracy, and I don't want USA smelling around for bodyparts.

Originally posted by Thomas Crowne
Oh, I see, now. You think I said we're the best at eliminating pollution. Well, I don't know. The ratio of production to pollution has to be taken into account, but once again, looking at other nations that are well behind in the technology, and have much less productivity on top of that; yes, I'd say we kick butt.

Mostly undeveloped countrys simply can't pollute much as they lack machinery.

Your assumptions about the pollution from cars and your attempt to put into a formula proves nothing as well. Not everyone drives a gas guzzler, and the EPA controls that have castrated the vehicles of the raw power of yester-year make them much cleaner. Maybe you have personally seen places that have filthy cars and filthy air and assume we do, too.

Of ten friend of you, tell me what ones haven't gas guzzlers.

What, by the way, would you have us do? Are we not allowed to travel? Is it only those who you deem worthy allowed to travel? Because we have populous cities we aren't expected to move about? Funny, from talking to many folks on the net who live in places like NYC, many own no auto as mass transit suits their lifestyle perfectly. Me, I need a car as there is no bus that will take me the 86 mile round trip for work.

...you sure are. But can you tell me the average cars per hundred inhabitants?

Once again, you've proven nothing, only made wild assumptions about a place to where you've never travelled.

I was sure you wanted to make that the central question of the discussion. I have made reasonably (not wild) assumptions, and I have provided at least a proof to support my assumptions. BTW, you *still* have not provided *any*.

I remember as a kid, the air around Birmingham was absolutely pitiful. If you got tired of breathing it, you could take out your knife and slice off some to eat. Times and technology have changed, though. Birmingham, like most cities in the U.S., are much cleaner than what they used to be. Where's the city with the dirtiest air, now? Mexico City? Let's not mention New Delhi; a chemist buddy that travels there on business has described it to me. Aw, heck, I'm not going to take the time to list the places that aren't up to our standards of quality control. And, I see no reason for us to be held to the same standards as nations that do not have near the output as we. You know, places such as, say, the Canary Islands?

Again, searching outside the problems that need to be fixed inside doesn't solve things.

I would ignore the (joke?) mention about Canary Islands (oh!, you have never been here! ).

Guess what? I'm getting tired of this thread. If you don't want to see your very own country has problems too, I will not be the one to point these: Let these backfire at you when time is appropiate. Period. I got tired of this.

[Edited on 2002-12-24 by MakodFilu]

Originally posted by ultra_phoenix

Originally posted by MakodFilu
Ultra_phoenix:

1) AFAIK I just answered that past as well.

2) About dismissing Kioto initiative as easy as you have done... I don't think you have proof to support that. It's even ridiculous.

3) But that's what you think. You have your rights to do so.

4) But as you are European (AFAIK), please, give a chance for our good USA fellows to answer.

1a) Yes I know, but I wasn't stafisfied of our answer.

And now, others peoples will have also the possibility to say what they think.

That answer would be off-topic here. It was in the German Army thread, if I remember well. If one want to look, look at there.

1b) " AFAIK " ? What's that ?

As Far As I Know. Just to be friendly.

2) Proofs ? That's easy. Look on internet ( Like I did it ). You'll see wich country has the most higher pollution level. Wich country do his best to avoid pollution. Wich country don't care about environment matters.

And please, don't ask me a link. I can provide it,but it will be french linkS.

Those would be good. I hope you are not saying French links would be more biased than USA links.

3) Yep.

We are not in China , so, we can speak.

In fact, we are on *Internet* so even if you are Chinese (and I think at least one member is), you can allways speak.

4) I give ALLWAYS a chance to the USA. Don't forget, I have a USA flag at home.

Where did your patriotric pride go? Are you tired of your country? Move to USA if you are willing to...

I'm not.

[Edited on 2002-12-24 by MakodFilu]

Originally posted by TigeriS

Originally posted by Doomsday
Hey TigeriS, what operating system are you using?

You can better ask what I want to use, because I don't have any choice, at work we must work with either Windows 2000 or Windows XP. I am a Linux or any other OS fan. But there are enought things I can't do without Windows. And even if I use Linux I won't escape TCPA/Palladium.

The only way to escape is to live without any electronics. But that will be pretty hard for the next generations. Look at the population, we are getting weaker and weaker, most of us don't even know how to grow fruits or any other food. We are dependent on others. And that'll eventually "kill" us.
[Edited on 24-12-2002 by TigeriS]

Debian GNU/Linux for me, thanks. I recognize i mostly connect from a Windows laptop and from my work, which is Windows based too but is switching slowly to more open things.

About independent platforms:
www.opencores.org...

[Edited on 2002-12-24 by MakodFilu]

Originally posted by MakodFilu


1) " AFAIK " ? What's that ?

As Far As I Know. Just to be friendly.


2) Those would be good. I hope you are not saying French links would be more biased than USA links.

3) In fact, we are on *Internet* so even if you are Chinese (and I think at least one member is), you can allways speak.

4) Where did your patriotric pride go? Are you tired of your country? Move to USA if you are willing to...

I'm not.

1) Thanks.

2) Not at all. But you have to understand french if you want to see the big picture, because all these internet translator will NOT help you to understand ( in fact, it will be worst )

3) WRONG ! Chinese cybercoffe and internets connexions are all monitored by the commies ! So, iy you say/write something who's not in the party line, be ready to join a wonderfull re-education camp ( Lao Gai ).
And with what I know about these Lao Gai, the Russians gulags system is looking like DysneyWorld in comparison !

4) HA HA HA HA HA..........But man, in the EU, now, when you say that you're a patriot, peoples are looking you like if you was a nazi or a racist !!!!!!!!!!!

It's not that I don't like my country anymore.It's just that I don't like what they ( policy makers ) did to it !!!!!

Virtually, my country doesn't exist anymore !!!!!!!!!!

And if you want to know it, I'm working on it ! I'm looking since many weeks ago for a good job in the USA !!! And if I find it, I'll say " bye bye for ever " to my so-called country !!! But I have a familly ( wife + daughter ), and I can't leave like this. Everything would have to be perfect for both of them if we do this move.

I don't want to go in the USA without a good job.I don't want to be a so called political refugee ( in fact an economic refugee ) who just want to live on the US tax payers backs !!!

And if I don't find this good job, may be that the USA will attack and ovverun the EU for our own good.Like this, I'll be able to join the US Army.