Online Poker Is A Scam To All

Greetings,

First off, being a new member to ATS, I have long enjoyed reading your intellectual threads ranging from a large variety of topics that I find very intriguing. I hope in the future I can become an avid user here at ATS.

I wanted to create my first topic on something I find very unusual: Online Gambling. The Justice Department for years have contended that online gambling is illegal under US Federal Laws. The Justice Department relies on the Wire Wager Act to state this claim, amongst other acts like Gambling Business Act, the Wagering Paraphernalia Act, and the Travel Act.

On October 13, 2006, President Bush signed the Unlawful Internet Gambling Enforcement Act (UIGEA), which restricts the acceptance of certain financial transactions pertaining to illegal online gambling, and imposes requirements on banks and other financial service providers to identify and block illegal financial transactions [reference www.lawrencewalters.com...].

Now I want to make my statement clear at this point: Despite the rules and regulations about Online Gambling, I believe that the companies behind these websites create ficticous programs to maniplulate the system.

Let me use the game No Limit Texas Hold'em for example: I have played poker for countless years, in almost all Vegas Casino's and most Casino's in Southern California (Indian Reservations) and have made a decent living doing so. In comparison, I find that online gaming is nothing compared to *real live* poker; simply because body movements, facial expressions amongst other things (called "Tells") can give a person's hand away. With Online Poker, it is difficult to find a person's "Tell", but it is possible by their betting habits, previous hands played, amount of pots played, etc.

To get back on track for this thread, I would like to strongly state that I personally believe Online Poker uses manipulative programs to create the best possible scenario's of "Made Hands" to be made. Too many times do I see Ace Ace vs. King King or Ace King vs. Ace Ace or whatever the hole cards might be before seeing the flop. Let me ellaborate more on my experiment.

I put together 5 poker friends and we logged onto www.betus.com, a internet gamling site located in the country Dubai. We all sat down on a 6-man table maximum $.50/$1 table. We played for thirty minutes for a total of 65 hands. Each person kept track of their Hole Cards (the two cards given to you) and later we made our conclusion.

We found that 53% of the time, we connected with some sort of card on the flop (which in turn truthfully happens 33% of the time connecting one of your hold cards to the flop). We also found that when Ace Ace is dealt to someone, another person would have a pocket pair as well. In addition, this lower pocket pair would connect to a card on the flop, giving that person three of a kind, in comparison to the person with Ace Ace [who will bet MORE].

Let me digress and state that Online Gambling Sites [poker sites] make a specific amount of commission from the table. This is called a rake. Almost all sites use the percentage of 5%, with a maximum take back [rake] of $3.

What I am stating is this: These online poker sites manipulate the cards to maximize their profit intake by creating the best possible hands for individuals playing. This could no doubt be easily accomplished by specific codes they have written in their program. Cards ARE NOT based on a random selection of 52 cards as they are in real-life table games. Instead, these unregulated poker sites are creating a magnificant amount of MADE HANDS so that people can bet more; thus creating more profit for them with more money being spent by the person.

I know this sounds so confusing to some, but I hope a few can relate. I have made roughly $600,000 or more from playing live poker games, but have lost $30,000 from internet poker sites.

I am not bitter, but be careful!



[edit on 3-2-2008 by Quazze]

[edit on 3-2-2008 by Skyfloating]

Well I play LOTS of poker live and online and I understand your argument but I do not think the major sites that get 3rd party audited manipulate their software. I have won a lot of money myself in large MTT's so I guess I cant really see how its fixed against me? Sure I have had a TON of bad beats and 2 outers on the river but thats poker and even in the casino it happens.

Here is a few reasons why I think you will see more action betting and bad beats online, first there is so many new players so bad calls and bad play sometimes gets lucky. Second most net poker is low stakes compared to what Casino buy'ins and cash games play at so people arent to concerend with losing 5$ on an all in call to hit their pavement flush on the river lol. Third is that people online are playing and trying to read by betting patterns which is nowhere near as easy to read as real live poker so betting itself does not resemble normal live poker and fourth I think people get distracted and do not play as well and consistently as they would if they were playing live at a table with people watching your every move.

I'd be glad to share tips and help you master the game online but the best advice I can give is that if you truly think its rigged then don't play at all because that mindset alone will cause losses imo. I also only play at 3 or 4 sites that are all huge always over 30k online so it would be so stupid for the company to rig their games because they make so much off the rakes n trny fee's.

Oh and I am not tryin to sound like a bragger but I seen you mentoin you have won 600$ at casino's and lost 300 in the net? I made well over 20k in the last 2 years at least in live poker and even more online probably around 40k in the 3 years I been really playing a lot. Are you a cash table player or tournement mainly?

reply to post by Quazze


I use pokerroom.com for my online poker and I have noticed some of the same thing. My personal theory is that the software used rewards good play. Whether this is intentional or just a happenstance I cant say

CT

Not only do they do what you say, but they also use in house players whom I believe get preferential cards. For all I know they use computer players as well. Way too many bad beats at these sites for eveything to be on the up and up. BTW I could be prejudiced because I lost several thousand when I was into it. Live and learn.

I worked the tables in the UK. There is only one outcome for a gambler.

LOSER!

The odds are against you before you set foot in a casino or even switch on your pc. Yes I know that tournament poker is another animal entirely so I'm not going there with this tirade.

Casino/Internet Gambler = MUG.

Rigged, stacked or otherwise it's a mugs game.

MonKey

Online poker isn't even against the law in the US because you don't gamble against a casino, you gamble against other people. The poker sites don't make any more money if you win or lose.

What about tournaments online? The house gets the same amount of money no matter who wins or loses.

I think you just need to find a hobby that your better at, because I pay a good portion of my bills with online poker

65 hands is hardly a sufficient sample size to determine an online poker site is rigged. Maybe 1 billion hands showing consistent variation from what is mathematically probable would do the trick. Frankly, I don't believe any of your anecdotal evidence. Bragging about your $600k profit in live games that are untrackable and unprovable hardly speaks to any credibility at all. Telling people how good you are or how profitable it is for you to play poker goes against everything a poker player believes. The idea is to get weaker players to play you.