Undersea Cables Cut: Oops or Uh-oh?

I wonder if this was a test? They never found out who did it...

Originally posted by kosmicjack
reply to post by aaaauroraaaaa

 

Obviously. I posted that article because thirty plus years ago they were able to do such things. Now, it would be so much easier and point is that the issue should not be whether they can do it or how they do it but - Why.



[edit on 3/2/08 by kosmicjack]

Thank you, FINALLY someones says the obvious... And what about the " 40g data rate needs some fantastically big boxes to handle the flow, ect ect"? I imagine they run 1.6 TERABIT thru some of those cable, as the equipment has been commercially avalaible over 10 years now, and even THEN it only took a bay (single frame) of equipment to break down the bandwidth. One can only imagine what the CIA, NSA, and other Intel groups NOW have at their disposal, being they're usually a generation ahead of any announced supercomputer systems anymore. I guarantee they've had jacking FO submarine cable figured out a long time, probably even before they REBUILT THE JIMMY CARTER FOR THAT SAME PURPOSE.

thegallopingbeaver.blogspot.com...

Been away from this thread for some time, but this post made me chuckle.

Originally posted by Yknot
Thank you, FINALLY someones says the obvious...

And what about the " 40g data rate needs some fantastically big boxes to handle the flow, ect ect"? I imagine they run 1.6 TERABIT thru some of those cable, as the equipment has been commercially avalaible over 10 years now,

No, they don't run 1.6 Tb as that is impossible, long haul. Show me the multiplexor that can do that speed over long-haul links. The largest commercial links are STM-256 and they are new. That is the largest they can go at current standards, no one is evenm thinking of STM-1024 or higher (so much higher to get 1.6 Tb!! Seriously, sooo much higher....).

Besides, 1.6 terabits isn't a valid STM-n speed anyway....

Originally posted by Yknot
and even THEN it only took a bay (single frame) of equipment to break down the bandwidth.

That depends on the rack configuration and make. Nortel multiplexors cannot break down large STM-4 or higher transmissions to V-12 (2Mb) level. Within a VC-12 could be 30 odd 64k voice channels and no SDH mux can do that.

Originally posted by Yknot
One can only imagine what the CIA, NSA, and other Intel groups NOW have at their disposal, being they're usually a generation ahead of any announced supercomputer systems anymore. I guarantee they've had jacking FO submarine cable figured out a long time, probably even before they REBUILT THE JIMMY CARTER FOR THAT SAME PURPOSE.

They rebuilt the Jimmy Carter as a test ship to see what the feasibility of tapping fibre was. No one has even shown it is possible without the Telco knowing and people becoming wise to it. To believe it is undetectable and even trusted technology is nonsense.

I don't dispute they could gain access to the fibre and intercept the signal, but to do it without being noticed and to then be able to delve into the particular data you want (a daunting task itself without any routing, time slot or data type information), within the time limits if being found out, is impossible.

To believe otherwise displays a profound misunderstanding of how telcomms works. I haven't been doing the job I do for nigh on ten years to not have learnt a thing or two.






[edit on 6/2/08 by stumason]

reply to post by stumason


The U.S. was using submarines to attach spy gear to soviet undersea cables 40 years ago to listen in on their military operations. The discussion about whether we could CUT a cable undersea is silly.

stumason even dressing the end of one strand is a challenge at times. To tap in a trunk to a bundle? It ain't a USB hub... you need some serious hardware as stu' has pointed out.

Maybe a Telco who was co-opted could be "persuaded" to allow their bread and butter to have a little jam spread on it? Just for a rainy day? It's all speculative until it isn't.

Tehran u is "up" but the page fills are slow from the student informatics center. Little after dark Tehran time.

Vic

[edit on 6-2-2008 by V Kaminski]

How many cuts are reported total now?

I heard it was five. Only one source had posted that at the time.

www.rense.com...

New article suggests 9 cables have been cut now.

Todays cable repair update seems to confirm a complete thru-and-thru cut or break on this particular cable.

06-Feb-08
Cut # 2: FALCON Cable cut between Dubai (UAE) and Al SEEB (Oman)

- The crew has recovered the one end of the cable and cable joining work is in progress.

- The cable cut was reported at 0559 GMT on February1st 2008 around 56 Km from Dubai, UAE on segment between UAE and Oman.

www.flagtelecom.com...

Emphasis mine.

They should get a better idea what caused the cut now that they have seen it . They'll know the difference between an anchor stretching it till it snaps vs. a saw cut won't they?


[edit on 2/6/08 by makeitso]

reply to post by loam


They're planning on doing something to Iran and don't want people to find out what REALLY is happening there, until it's too late!

Originally posted by dk3000
the good news is America is finally waking up- for real.
[edit on 5-2-2008 by dk3000]

lol...um...no. Joe 6 Pack is still concerned about mortgage payments and the kids' soccer games.

blog.wired.com...

"Cable cuts happen on average once every three days," Beckert said. There are 25 large ships that do nothing but fix cable cuts and bends, Beckert adds.

Sorry guys, I'm in agreement. This is a statistical probability.

And this is where the Jimmy Carter is:

www.navy.mil...

[edit on 6/2/08 by Smokersroom]

reply to post by makeitso


They'll know what happened to it soon, but will we ever get the straight skinny? Truth is after all so poorly lit. Perhaps it's just a test as Helmutt suggested. Let's hope so.

All submarines whether US or Iranian or Israeli or Spectre, whether
they are nuclear or diesel have escape hatches that can allow Scuba
equpped sabots, access to Internet cables underseas. I included Spectre
as the whole plot could be a shake-down of the cable providers.
Who benefits from (get this) shutting off NSA access to daily internet traffic in the middle east. (assuming that all these cables have taps already in place)?? Who would not care if Egypt and the other Top Ten
Countries have lost access to the internet? Remember Iran is not in the Top Ten.
To summarize: Egypt says no ships were seen in the area of max disruption. We know we had an earthquake in Taiwan during the last
major disruption, 4 to nine disruptions in the middle east seems a bit much to me, even if minor disruptions occur on a weekly basis.

PS - It;s official Shaq to leave the Heat for the Suns

To answer the question why would anyone use dumb old cables when they can use satellites. I worked with data collection out there in the first gulf war.
Radio signals of all frequencys rot due to the airborn dirt. Range and quality are severely effected. They have satellites, but that is bandwidth limited, and vulnerable to easy interception.

You have a better chance of security with a physical line. You also can pump quite a bit more data through a good fiberoptic trunk.
More data
Less vulnerable
Localized data route
Bigger haystack to hide your needle in.

In response to the statement that this is within statistical probability.

What isn't?

Please define parameters?

My understanding is that there are about 80 events a week globally.

So Let us say that I launch a very genuine attack and knock out a dozen lines connecting to the ficticious country of Schmorgasborge.

Even knowing the attacks are real, aren't they well within statistical probability?
So, Again I ask you, what isn't? "Statistical Probability" in this case is a dismissive statement with a pretense of scientific accuracy and superior grasp of reality. In truth it is empty, and disinformation.


[edit on 6-2-2008 by Cyberbian]

Originally posted by resistor

Perhaps it's just a test as Helmutt suggested

I meant that the other incident was a test. This time it might not be a test. If you manage to shadow the Russian fleet undetected, sneak in between the ships, and conduct a sabotage act and make it look like the Russians did it, then you're ready for the real thing Or maybe it really was the Russians. In that case, who is cutting these undersea cables now?

My internet didn't work when I got home from work tonight. I was seriously freaking out and thought I might have a heart attack.
Then I reset my router. Here I am

It's just extremely extremely rare to have to ever reset the router, the internet connection I have is almost rock solid IMO.

Latest update from our Major incident people:

MULTIPLE CABLE BREAKS ON THE SEA ME WE 4 AND FLAG SUBMARINE CABLE SYSTEMS

SEA ME WE 4 and Flag cable systems suffered multiple-submarine cable breaks in the Mediterranean Sea on Wednesday 30 January.



We’ve re-routed our customers’ services onto alternative cable systems, and services continue to operate as normal.



To date, there is no information on how this cable broke. We're keeping the Major Incident team on point and are closely monitoring the cable fix situation and restoration paths.





CABLE BREAKS IN THE MIDDLE EAST



On Friday 1 February, Flag suffered a break on its FALCON cable system between Dubai and Oman.



Flag had also previously suffered from a break on its cable between Oman and Iran - which is still to be repaired. As both of these cables were broken, it wasn't immediately possible to re-route services.



Our Major Incident team worked closely with Flag, and by Friday evening we'd successfully re-routed our customers' services onto alternative cable systems.



However on Sunday morning at 05:03 GMT, there was a small disruption to the restoration path. This caused a temporary loss of service to some of our customers. Service was fully restored at 06:49 GMT.



The Major Incident team will continue to monitor the situation, keeping a close watch on the restoration paths.

Mod Note

to cable cutter fans

Please post any new information on this into one of the existing threads and do not open another new one.

Lets keep the board tidy, and kudos to all the contributions so far. The speculation/commentary has been pretty cool.