Sun worship or Son worship?

Jesus was BORN on 9/11 in reality...
From a 7 year old virgin named Mary...
Married to a 29 year old widdower named Joseph...
who was blackmailed into marrying her...
Nobody in Bethlahem would let a grown man with a pregnant child stay there, but the innkeeper said "use the stables, and keep it quiet" - if the guards had found them, he would have been executed and the girl and child raised as a ward of the state.

Ever wonder why Jesus has not been born yet in this day and age? In what country could he be born in and have a modern day Mary and Joseph marry? The "virgin" has to be age 9 or under, verified a virgin, not have ever gotten her period yet, be fully versed in all arts of baby making, sex in general, and duties of being a wife, and be married to a grown man who will not do anything with her until after she gives birth to the modern day Jesus... And some people wondered why the Bible says kids are only kids until the age of 3, and then marriable after that...

Just plain not going to happen anywhere!

And yet you still can’t win…even of you say Amen Ra was anthropomorphised as the sun….. then you have to by logic say so was every other god in the Egyptian religion, you simply can’t label one of the gods as the sun and then say all the others were just made up creations by man……If Amen Ra was the sun, then all the other gods were also represented as moons, planets, constellations, animals etc….

You then go one step further, the pagan gods are also representations of what people viewed around them…..rain gods, sky gods, etc

The Romans and Greeks associated the planets and moons and the ocean as gods , mars, Jupiter, Poseidon, Zeus, Neptune, etc….

These religions and many others all worship many gods, but only to explain the universe and its origins eg. In Greece Chaos is the universe….or the creator of the universe….

All your god is, Jesus – god – the holy spirit is an idea, creation, representation of mans understanding of the world and universe and then simplified into beings that we can associate ourselves with when identified in human form…. The Holy Spirit….is represented as everything that is spiritual in the universal….Jesus as the human form of the spirit that we can associate ourselves with…just like Ra, Vishnu, Mars and many others…..and lastly god as the supreme everything, that creating everything and is everything, a concept used over 3000 years ago to explain everything because we didn’t have the knowledge the understanding the science to explain the world and the universe and how it works….eg, In the beginning god created the heaven and the earth in six days…..


Do you get it now…..? Your god is the same as every other, a representation of the universe……


[edit on 5-2-2008 by andre18]

reply to post by andre18


So since there is no real solid evidence to connect Jesus to anyone or anything, I'm basically being told, "Mars, Horus, Jesus, Krishna, Zeus, and company are all the same thing because we say so and that's the way it is."

Got it.

I'm a Christian. That's the way it is.

reply to post by AshleyD

I'm a Christian. That's the way it is.

So you’re SNIP…Got it….

Even if you prove that Horus, Hercules and any other previous god doesn’t have anything to do with your god, it has no relation….no similar birth date, no same number of followers, or story eg Sargon / Noah etc it does not stop in any way the bloody logic, that your god along with every other, is a creation of our minds, an idea….a simplified concept of the universe….take it or leave it…

Every atheist knows this to be true……..any logical person knows this to be true……

Ignorance creates god, logic destroys it….

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[edit on 5/2/2008 by Sauron]

And just for fun…I’ll throw in a little more logic…..Amen Ra…..Anthropomorphised as the sun……… Ra-rays Amen – sun……

The word Amen is used throughout all the Abrahamic religions…..as well as used repeatedly in the testament, as well as TEST-AMEN-T…..

Why would the word Amen – sun, be used repeatedly in Christianity and Judaism and even Buddhism….When you say your prayers before eating you say Amen to that god for your food…..hmmm logic, you're thanking the sun – amen for you food….




[edit on 5-2-2008 by andre18]

Originally posted by andre18
Every atheist knows this to be true……..any logical person knows this to be true……

How can you know this to be true? Honest question. I don't even know I'm right. Hence, faith. I am 100% sure without any shadow of a doubt there is a God but am only 99% sure that God is Jehovah who revealed His plan of Salvation through Jesus. So, I take the other 1% on faith.

How do you know there is no God? Because you haven't seen Him? He hasn't poked His head out of the sky and waved Hello? I'm genuinely interested in hearing your thoughts.

reply to post by sapatos

(this in keeping with many other tree-slain saviours such as Quezalcoatl of Mexico, Mithras and many others).

Quetzalcoatl never, never got crucified until the Spanish missionaries decided to turn him into a Christ-figure in an effort to convert the Aztec. This is also about when he went from a Native guy with a boarded forehead and a body made of intertwined feathers, to a white guy with a beard.

He was also never the central deity of any of the religions that held him as a god. The Maya worshiped the Sun - Ah Kin - as their central figure. The Aztec also worshiped the sun - portrayed as a war god, Huitzilopitchli - as their central figure.

Mormonism and Wicca - mixing up everyone else's religions since they were founded.

How can you know this to be true?

Logic…..commonsense

I use my brain....my mind......

I don't even know I'm right. Hence, faith. I am 100% sure without any shadow of a doubt there is a God but am only 99% sure that God is Jehovah who revealed His plan of Salvation through Jesus. So, I take the other 1% on faith.

You also take that 99% on faith as the evidence for you belief can only be backed up by a 2000 year old book that was used by the Roman empire to gain a more stable control over the population….as that is what religion does…control……The book itself was put together by Constantine, parts that were taken out and in and were decided by him and not your god….. (sorry, him and priests)

How do you know there is no God? Because you haven't seen Him? He hasn't poked His head out of the sky and waved Hello? I'm genuinely interested in hearing your thoughts.

If you’re god is real and the other million or so other gods aren’t, then it should be able to reveal itself to us scientifically, even if it can’t show it self in the sky and wave to us…..it’s existence should still be probably through logical analysis…..if not….it is not real…….a theory on the universe which is wrong….as is other scientific theories that are debunked everyday, but at least they have some merit to them…..if you say something exists without it being proven….then all you’ve got is a theory, an idea….

Something that’s been around for thousands of years…it’s just been in the last 100 or so years, we’ve been able to put those theories to the test…..and now that we’ve proven again and again such theories are wrong…..such theories should be forgotten and abandoned….because it has been believed for so many thousands of years, it is hard for people to let go of such old traditions….but I’ll be dammed if I’m going to live in a world where people can believe in an invisible sky daddy in the 21st century through nothing but ignorance of faith……

We can have a lengthy discussion of faith if you want…..because you have faith in god it must exist, because I have faith there is no god it must not exist, we both have faith….so what makes your faith more stronger then mine, more correct then mine if it’s all a matter of faith…..the only difference between the two…is I also have evidence, prove, facts of science to back up my faith….you don’t….and that’s the simple truth……



[edit on 5-2-2008 by andre18]

reply to post by andre18


Actually, Andre, from a logical standpoint, Ashley is right - you cannot be certain there is no God. Just as you cannot be certain there is no flying purple unicorn in front of you right now.

However, you can be certain that there is, as yet, no verifiable evidence in support of God or the unicorn, and there is substantial evidence for counter claims to both assertions.

Semantics, but hey, welcome to the internet

[edit on 5-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

Actually, Andre, from a logical standpoint, Ashley is right - you cannot be certain there is no God. Just as you cannot be certain there is no flying purple unicorn in front of you right now.

Actually, ‘ThewalkingFox’, from a logical standpoint I'm right - we use science to prove theories right and wrong...god is a theory, science proves it wrong, theory is wrong, theory is debunked..... Just as you can be certain there is no flying purple unicorn in front of you right now.... firstly I can't see it....if it was invisible then I would use science, first I use logic then science....

However, you can be certain that there is, as yet, no verifiable evidence in support of God or the unicorn, and there is substantial evidence for counter claims to both assertions.

If there was evidenced ever.....it's already been scrutinized by science.....
If there though is evidence yet in support for god, then there's just as much for an invisible pink flying unicorn.......or tooth fairies etc.....

Semantics, but hey, welcome to the internet

But hey logic, welcome to the real world.....(not the world of faith)

Originally posted by andre18
Actually, ‘ThewalkingFox’, from a logical standpoint I'm right - we use science to prove theories right and wrong...god is a theory, science proves it wrong, theory is wrong, theory is debunked..... Just as you can be certain there is no flying purple unicorn in front of you right now.... firstly I can't see it....if it was invisible then I would use science, first I use logic then science....

I think you need a primer on science. Science does not apply "right vs wrong", it applies "more likely vs less likely." Is there some invisible man controlling every facet of the universe at every moment of the day? Science does not say "no" - Science says "probably not." Is an off-color mythological donkey defying the laws of physics before your very eyes? Again, "probably not."

If there was evidenced ever.....it's already been scrutinized by science.....
If there though is evidence yet in support for god, then there's just as much for an invisible pink flying unicorn.......or tooth fairies etc.....

Right. So, the unicorn hypothesis (and the god hypothesis with it) lack enough evidence to warrant serious scientific consideration and becoming a theory. However, this does not negate the possibility that such evidence may at some point turn up. Nobody's really holding their breath, but there's always, always that possibility. .

But hey logic, welcome to the real world.....(not the world of faith)

It wasn't a "believe in god" post. It was a "get science right before you start swinging it" post. Be glad a heathen who could give a damn less who you claim to worship got you before one of these Dr. Dino sorts we have on the fringes at ATS.

ok I'll get to the meat I lost what Isaid .

Pope Innocent 3rd wrote to all the Catholic Churches of his time. Apparently there are supposed to several copies still around somewhere.

The letter starts with " This myth of Jesus Christ has served us well ".

Constantine collected all the bibles of his time and burned them.

He then set about writing his own bible based partially on the life of a political activist who in 79 ad led a rebellion against Rome.

This person's name was Joshua Bin Yoseph Immanuel but He renamed him Jesus Christ (greek) and combined it with the story of Mythras.

This was done to protect his reign.

Immanuel and his followers are the creators of The Dead Sea scrolls.

When Constantine had the bible rewritten He removed all references from the old one refering to Channeling, Laylines, Re-incarnation and Karma.

In 520 ad the bible was again rewitten after all of Constantines bibles were collected and burned . It then became an instruction book on how to control the masses.

I think it was Justine thedora and I think it was then that the concept of Hell was created.

throwing in a little Masonry here

The Bible is a collection of ancient bliefs from many (pre-deluge?) cultures that were assimilated under the one deity. Example:

SOLOMON

SOL-OM-ON

SOL: Latin for Sun
OM: Sanskrit for the solar-phallic force
ON: Egyptian for Sun

Three cultures, three traditions interlocking as one: SOLOMON.

Many other examples throughout the Bible.

True? False? I have no idea, I just read the above info in a Masonic book

reply to post by TheWalkingFox

I think you need a primer on science. Science does not apply "right vs wrong", it applies "more likely vs less likely." Is there some invisible man controlling every facet of the universe at every moment of the day? Science does not say "no" - Science says "probably not." Is an off-color mythological donkey defying the laws of physics before your very eyes? Again, "probably not."

If you used science to prove if I’m 10,000 feet tall or 6.2 you would prove it wrong that I’m 10,000 feet tall, it would not so much as be I’m more likely 6.2 then less likely but wrong that I’m 10,000 feet tall….. “Is there some invisible man controlling every facet of the universe at every moment of the day?” science says NO! otherwise it would be an acceptable theory, it would be taught in schools and be accepted as true….until other theories prove it wrong – which can also be proven scientifically.

Right. So, the unicorn hypothesis (and the god hypothesis with it) lack enough evidence to warrant serious scientific consideration and becoming a theory. However, this does not negate the possibility that such evidence may at some point turn up. Nobody's really holding their breath, but there's always, always that possibility. .

“becoming a theory” becoming a theory with no backing…yes. “at some point turn up” yes it does…..but I can just say it will never at some point turn up….You’re hoping it will, you can do that all day……but that doesn’t mean millions of people have to believe in Jesus just for the small hope of it one day becoming true……in such a sense……there should be no religious or theistic people on the entire planet…..but that’s all do to with education…..something that’s happening in a slow process….

This thread is dedicated to whether or not Jesus the holy spirit and god - is the son or the sun… this subject is closed…..god does not exist because we use science to prove it and debunked the theory, even if it we are yet to prove it in the future, that is as possible as proving in the future we are all living in an actual dream etc etc….

The god that people thought existed is the sun, as Amen is used throughout the entire Abrahamic faith in which means sun, the sun created us which is a scientific fact….the sun also gave as life, we use it every day we depend on it, gives a warmth food etc….and Christians thank it before dinner, it is used repeatedly in the
TEST-AMEN-T, and one more thing I’ve left out…….if you look at the people who lived in the time in the bible and correspond them to the people who lived as pharaohs in Egypt, they will be the same people…..the Jews never walked in the desert for 40 years….any logical person can see that….they would have died from the heat and the lack of food…..

Go to Youtube an type in “THE HIDDEN EMPIRE 5/38” there are 6 parts 5/38 -11/38…..

Originally posted by andre18
If you used science to prove if I’m 10,000 feet tall or 6.2 you would prove it wrong that I’m 10,000 feet tall, it would not so much as be I’m more likely 6.2 then less likely but wrong that I’m 10,000 feet tall….. “Is there some invisible man controlling every facet of the universe at every moment of the day?” science says NO! otherwise it would be an acceptable theory, it would be taught in schools and be accepted as true….until other theories prove it wrong – which can also be proven scientifically.

In a way - The data I would collect would show you are in fact 6'2". Science did not disprove you were 10,000 feet tall - but it did prove you are six feet and two inches.

You cannot prove a negative. That is, I can't measure how tall you aren't, but I CAN measure how tall you are.

“becoming a theory” becoming a theory with no backing…yes. “at some point turn up” yes it does…..but I can just say it will never at some point turn up….You’re hoping it will, you can do that all day……but that doesn’t mean millions of people have to believe in Jesus just for the small hope of it one day becoming true……in such a sense……there should be no religious or theistic people on the entire planet…..but that’s all do to with education…..something that’s happening in a slow process….

Wait a minute there, chuckles. First off, take it easy on the ellipses. I know I'm going from logic to science to grammar here, but, yeesh, you can't be having THAT many incomplete thoughts!

You do understand the scientific notion of a theory, and what makes it different from a hypothesis (which is in turn different from speculation), correct? That is, you need measurable evidence to even think about calling something a theory. Which is why, at this point, the various deities are relegated to hypothesis (and borderline speculation in many cases)

Now, personally, I don't need my religion validated by science. Of course, as my own religion doesn't deny anything from science, it's a rather moot point. For the record, I think most of humanity would be far, far healthier if they abandoned their simpering little tent god and his rape-spawned harbinger of genocide altogether, and instead started worshiping their shoes or something.

Religious belief is actually scientific, in that it is a psychological coping mechanism for the realization of our own mortality and the fact that though we are surrounded by life, we have no real way of communicating with anything other than other humans. Education just changes the urge, politics just redirects it. The Greek scholars still believed in their Pantheon, and the Russian communists just changed Jesus for the party leader. The worship remained, because it's stuck in our brains.

This thread is dedicated to whether or not Jesus the holy spirit and god - is the son or the sun… this subject is closed…..god does not exist because we use science to prove it and debunked the theory, even if it we are yet to prove it in the future, that is as possible as proving in the future we are all living in an actual dream etc etc….

Again, you cannot prove the nonexistence of something. For all we know, the gods are off on the back side of Pluto having a really, really long poker game. All that we can prove is that other mechanisms are far more likely than divine interference. And also again, you're mixing up your scientific stages.

You may also want to note that this thread's premise, as you just noted it, is a philosophical and mythological question and not a scientific one. We might as well be arguing whether Odin and Loki actually belong to the Norse Pantheon or if they are in fact borrowed from a dualistic religion.

The god that people thought existed is the sun, as Amen is used throughout the entire Abrahamic faith in which means sun, the sun created us which is a scientific fact….the sun also gave as life, we use it every day we depend on it, gives a warmth food etc….

Creating, giving... No. The sun does its sun thing and we happen to have adapted to benefit from the burning ball of nuclear fire that is pointed at us for 12 hours a day

and Christians thank it before dinner, it is used repeatedly in theTEST-AMEN-T,

You're thinking of Aten. Amen(t) was an Egyptian underworld version of a Wal-Mart greeter. And you did catch my initial post in this thread that points out these languages are totally unrelated to the Germanic language we're speaking right now? "Testament" is not a semitic loanword to English. It's straight Latin, and has purely legal origins.

and one more thing I’ve left out…….if you look at the people who lived in the time in the bible and correspond them to the people who lived as pharaohs in Egypt, they will be the same people…..the Jews never walked in the desert for 40 years….any logical person can see that….they would have died from the heat and the lack of food…..

You know that the Bedouin, Ghawazi, and Berber have been "wandering the desert" for centuries, right? To say nothing of the many other peoples in many other deserts worldwide. As to whether the Jews were doing it? Well, it's perfectly plausible that they migrated through North Africa and Egypt to get to the Near east. Perhaps they even started in Mesopotamia as the book claims (The fact the Jewish religion in no way resembles the early religions of the middle east tells me that's hokum, though - but that could be the result of editing as well)

I have all sorts of pet theories about this portion of the bible. For instance, God kept renaming his "important" people - Abram became Abraham, Jacob became Israel, but Moses - bearing an Egyptian name - remained "Moses."

Once you tear away the theological claptrap and can start tossing around a bit of anthropology, it gets pretty interesting.

[edit on 5-2-2008 by TheWalkingFox]

You're thinking of Aten. Amen(t) was an Egyptian underworld version of a Wal-Mart greeter. And you did catch my initial post in this thread that points out these languages are totally unrelated to the Germanic language we're speaking right now? "Testament" is not a semitic loanword to English. It's straight Latin, and has purely legal origins.

Aten has nothing to do with it…..Amen Ra is the god of the sun…..the word Amen is used when Christians say grace…..(thanking the sun not god for the food) as well as the TEST-AMEN-T. etc etc.

Have a look at these....

THE HIDDEN EMPIRE

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by KanehBosm
yes, I am sure anyone who takes a moment WILL realize that the , Sumerian, then Egyptian, then Hebrew, then Roman, then Germanic words SON and SUN are VERY different than this "elegant" english language we use today.

Then what is the big deal? (And I am not remotely attacking you so please do not think so!

). Another poster tried to tell me Israel was a compound of Isis, Ra, and El. In the original languages though, the words have nothing in common. So what is the big deal about son and sun? Or were you not adamant about this one similarity?

You know what, you are not very smart, I was trying to show you where Judaism comes from Isis, Ra, and El are old religious cults that merged to form IsisRaEl, or what we know today as Israel. Its unbeliveable how you twist things around. It has always been said that in the "End Times" the words of the Holy books will be twisted around to serve evil, that millons will follow a path of darkness and those that speak the truth will be ridiculed and put to death. When do you think the twisting of the words are going to take place??? Don't you get it its already been done, you are so proud of that device used to put one of the greatest teachers the world has ever seen to death, FAKE Christians. Is that not evil giving praise to a device that was used to kill people. I think that cross is the mark of the beast. If there is a time to come when millons will be following the wrong path and few will follow the light, what path do you think your on right now, the Roman Empire made Jesus the new pagan sacrifice and you fools are runing around worshiping it with out question. You worship a pagan God, a Human Sacrifice and are oblivious to the facts.

[edit on 2/5/2008 by XcLuciFer]

reply to post by andre18


Ahhh. Amun. With a U. Amun is the god of wind in the Ogdoad of Hermepolis, husband to Amunet. In later years he became combined with Ra, the sun-god to become Amun-Re, the holy wind of the sun - that is, sunlight itself. Amun-Re is a different deity from Amun, and was only worshiped in Thebes.

Ra is the god of the sun who pilots the solar barge. Aten is the sun-disk itself, deified under the reign of Akhenaten as one of the world's first monotheist religions. Ra, Amun, and Amun-Re were never worshiped as a singular deity, they were always part of the rest of the Egyptian Pantheon or Ogdoad. These deities all require the existence of their companions.

"Amen" is from Jewish liturgy. In the root semitic it means "like that," or in a religious context it means "so be it."

And for - dammit - the last time... testament is a Latin word, and has no roots in the semitic languages that gave us "amen" nor does it have anything in common with the nilo-saharan language that gave us "Amun-Re."

THE FOUR ANCIENT CULTS OF POWER
(Stellar, Lunar, Solar, Saturnian)

The falsification of history has done more to mislead humans than any single thing known to mankind - Jean Jacques Rousseau

The scholars, academics, and mass of the world’s populace seem completely unaware of the fact that there were at least four great cults in the ancient world, with one following and supplanting another as the centuries advanced. Each Cult, until the point when they joined together, absorbed the mythologies and beliefs of those antecedent. Although astrology was employed by the priesthoods of each cult radical changes in the astrological canon where often made to suit personal ideologies. In fact, many idioms used by the famous Solar Cult originated with the Lunar Cult. When Christians bend their knees before their "Lord" they are not aware they are performing an ancient ritual to the god of the moon, known as Thoth or Tehuti. When Christians bury their dead in the ground they are not aware they are following in the footsteps of the ancient Cult of Osiris whose members solemnly believed that a traversal of the "Underworld" (Amenta or Nekya) was necessary before the soul could transcend to higher planes.


www.taroscopes.com...

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[edit on 5/2/2008 by Sauron]

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