Sun worship or Son worship?

Tradition credits Saint Boniface with the invention of the Christmas tree. The Oak of Thor at Geismar was chopped down by Boniface in a stage-managed confrontation with the old gods and local heathen tribes. A fir tree growing in the roots of the Oak was claimed by Boniface as a new symbol. "This humble tree's wood is used to build your homes: let Christ be at the centre of your households. Its leaves remain evergreen in the darkest days: let Christ be your constant light. Its boughs reach out to embrace and its top points to heaven: let Christ be your Comfort and Guide."

Here we have the roman catholics christians get an idol too... like the 10 commandments never mentioned idols. Even worse, it's made of wood, just like the commandments said we were not to do specifically.

reply to post by KanehBosm


Nice dude, I also like the hebrew screen name you use, sweet cane eh >? hehe

What you're talking about is very interesting, but I think it's more of an alikening rather than sun worship. Afterall, the bible mentions how the bridgegroom comes out of his home and runs a circuit etc etc - It's basically all about the sun and how it moves through the constellations one by one. Like you mentioned about the Age of Aquarius.

It's also interesting because the age of great outpouring is the Age of Aquarius, Jesus was a Pisces and he was in the year of Pisces. Aquarius is seen as a man pouring water from an urn on his shoulder, the water flows down into the fish(pisces) mouth.

reply to post by ThemacX


haha dammit got in just before me.

The starting post really isnt very original, at least give the credit to your source it would validate "your" points. (zeitgeistmovie.com...)

Yes all religions are somewhat derivative from the natural world..... am i supposed to be shocked?

[edit on 1-2-2008 by tarichar]

reply to post by KanehBosm


I agree with every thing you say!!!
But you might as well just give up telling the religous zealots!!! They are not going to listen, they'd rather beleive in "fairy tales".
Why do all you religous people think christianity(I'm not spelling a religion based on lies with a capitol letter) persecuted the Pagans in countries like England in the dark ages??? Because the Pagans laughed at christians and bassicly said WTF are you worshipping, it's wrong. At the end of the day theere are like 3-4 modern religions that think we were created by god an almighty powerful being. When the fact is it's BS...

Hello everyone,interesting thread,

There is much contention in the history of religions and such,things have been lost,obscured and changed,done to hide things or to initiate control,have power and such things as these,much of this we are aware of,

Putting aside these histories and such,i would like to tell you a short story of why i am a Christian as this was not always so.

When i was born my Father was a practitioner of Voodoo,
My Mother was a witch, member of a coven,I have grown up all my life knowing the otherworld,
from the time i was 15 to the time i became a Christian i was
a drug addicted,death loving,occult practicing Satanist,

Then i met the living God.

He changed my life,healed me of my addictions instantly
turned my whole life around in the blink of an eye,i am not that which i once was,what i am is living proof of the power of God and his love.

No,i am not religious,hold no adherence to a particular church or its doctrine,
only the bible.
Am not weak and need to feel loved and accepted by a particular group or fit into a mold,
I am me and i am unique.

Thankyou everybody

BV


Edit:Spelling

[edit on 1-2-2008 by BlackViolet]

Zeitgeist is lame and incorrect in its assumption of the facts.

There is no true correlation between the man Yeshua who was born and walked the Earth and died (was murdered), who had abilities granted unto him through God's holy spirit, and all of this old Pagan and Egyptian Underworld Religion Sun God "Ra" crap.

Straight up man, I challenge any of you to a debate on the existence of Yeshua, he lived.. and died. There are so many historical accounts from non biblical references that you'd be quite surprised as I busted them out during the debate, my secret weapons of truth.

If the Son of God was the "Sun" of God, and not a man, and never existed, we sure do have a hella lot of liars out there! I mean damn, write an ENTIRE BOOK through like .. 20+ different authors, all writing about the same man, his life, the events in it, and so forth. Corroborating each other by describing the same events! Yeshua, Jesus, was a man, not a star 60 million miles away from the planet Earth.

The Sun had a name when it was worshipped as a God in Egypt, which was Ra, Ra the Sun God. Some say Moses was in a cult of Ra during his early life as Pharaoh's step son. Sun worship has some similarities to Monotheism, I mean, they worship one Sun, but its merely an object of creation, God created that Sun, for us to live, and his creations on Earth. It does not have a conscious, it cannot think or communicate. It is not alive like we are; it has no flesh and no blood. Surely this is no God of mine, but merely an idol.

Yeshua was born, lived, and was killed before he was 35. It's all documented, disbelieve if you'd like, but you will not convince anyone except the weak minded and the skeptics that he never even existed to begin with, and that all of the texts and historical accounts are bold faced lies. That is retarded, even I do not say Muhammad "made up" the Koran. Sure, I may question whether Gabriel truly visited him with it, but do I sit there and say, "the Koran is all lies, and Muhammad made all that crap up". No!! It is utterly disrespectful, and besides, I don't know that to be truth, and to say it outloud would stir up trouble with Muslims. So in essence, these threads have the same purpose alone: to stir up trouble with ATS Resident Christians.

Please get over the Zeitgeist, its loose change like Loose Change was, and these kids care more about internet-fame with making these far fetched videos than any true sense of trying to find the ultimate truth of reality. Charlatans ..

[edit on 2/1/2008 by runetang]

Ladies and Gentlemen (You too Runetang!!! )

I am not very deep into my religion... I'm a Lutheran.

I would like to take a moment, however, and thank everyone involved in this discussion for making it clear, concise (in a roundabout sort of way), generally respectful, and very interesting.

My hats off to you all for a mature, and elegant thread that is also informative. Even including the minimal moderator intervention.

Thanks again to all of you.

Sigung the Simple

Originally posted by tacocheesey
If Jesus is a creation or incarnation of God, then in fact, isn't Christianity worshiping the creation and not the creator? He only incarnated once. Once is not never, though. I seriously cannot understand this. I worship the Creator, I just don't know who or what that is.

For one, Jesus' birth in His human form was not believed to be His creation. He is described as being eternal and infinite. Only His human form was finite. Many scriptures mention this, Jesus Himself stated this, and there are even Old Testament allusions to this.

Just face it, Ashley. You worship a burning ball of helium & hydrogen.

It is NO coincidence that this is the age of pisces and Jesus is depicted by the fish. It is NO coincidence that Sun remains at the lowest point of the sky for 3 days between December 22nd-25th, only to "rise again." It is of no coincidence that Mithra was crucifed, and is depicted slaying the Bull because Mithra was worshipped during the age of Taurus. Then Moses came around and was angered to find his people worshipping a golden bull statue. Thus began the age of Aries, depicted by the ram. Ever wonder why Jews blow into a rams horn on Roshashana? Yeah. Think about it. After the age of Aries and the old Testament came the age of Pisces and the new Testament, depicted by the two fish. How many fish did Jesus use to feed the hungry mob? Yeah. Think about it. In 2012, we enter the age of Aquarius, the water bearer. In fact, the Bible states something to the effect of "at the end of this age a man with water will greet you. Follow him into his home." The different signs of the Zodiac are called "houses." Hence, follow him into his home.

All of it, in the end, revolves around the Sun. Quite literally. 12 signs of the Zodiac, plus the Sun. Jesus and his 12 disciples. Mithra and his 12 followers. Hercules and his 12 workers. And so on and so on.

Also note that each sun-God always had a headpiece of some sort that represented the sun's coronoa's. In Jesus' case, it was the crown of thorns.

Please do your research, Ashley. I'd suggest starting off with Manly P. Hall's "Secret Teachings of All Ages." Especially this chapter:

www.sacred-texts.com...

reply to post by metatronscube


That's really clever how they will quote from the Bible, then change the quote to mean what they want.
For example:

Luke 2:1 says, "And it came to pass in those days, that there went out a decree from Caesar Augustus, that all the world should be taxed [registered]." Here, 'taxed' means 'to register'.

I'm going to have to start doing that when I quote "things". And with the use of "things" here I mean 'doorknobs'.

I'm sure this has already been mentioned, but since I didn't read all the pages, I'll (re?)post it. Sounds to me like some people have been watching Zeitgeist.

Google Video Link

Originally posted by ModernDystopia
It is NO coincidence that Sun remains at the lowest point of the sky for 3 days between December 22nd-25th, only to "rise again."

Again, December 25th was not a part of original Christianity. That date was chosen centuries later under Constantine. But let's assume for argument's sake just this once that it was. Again, His death and crucifixion happened in the springtime, not in December where the sun would be at its "lowest point" and "rising again after three days."

It is of no coincidence that Mithra was crucifed

Such a thing was never believed by Mithras followers. Mithras was believed by his followers to be born out of solid rock as a full grown adult before humans were even created. He was also never believed by his cult to have died (nevertheless by crucifixion).

and is depicted slaying the Bull because Mithra was worshipped during the age of Taurus. Then Moses came around and was angered to find his people worshipping a golden bull statue.

Two problems. Mithras (the diety claimed to be an inspiration of Christ) originated in first century A.D. and maybe even the century before. Way after Moses. The Mithra of Persia has nothing to do with slaughtering a bull.

In 2012, we enter the age of Aquarius, the water bearer.

I thought that was supposed to begin in the 2060's?

In fact, the Bible states something to the effect of "at the end of this age a man with water will greet you. Follow him into his home." The different signs of the Zodiac are called "houses." Hence, follow him into his home.

It does not. This has already been answered twice on this thread. It had nothing to do with the end of this age or the end times. Myself and another poster already refuted this.

12 signs of the Zodiac, plus the Sun. Jesus and his 12 disciples. Mithra and his 12 followers. Hercules and his 12 workers. And so on and so on.

Mithra's "12 followers" were nothing more than the signs of the Zodiac. It was the same with Horus. Jesus technically had 13 apostles if you count in the addition of Barnabas to replace Judas. But the clincher is, many of the apostles' writings still exist to our time and their authorship is verified by early eye witnesses. Many propagators of the Christ Myth use the argument that Jesus did not exist because He never wrote anything down. Well, the apostles did so using that logic we can assume they are real people.

The only thing you can do is claim the writings were falsely attributed to them after the fact but that argument would be based on presupposition and bias and not recorded history. Like I said above, I also buy my eggs by the dozen. Do they represent the zodiac, too? All I see is a "12 and a 12." Or a thirteen if you want to get technical and then Christ Mythers can claim the hidden sign of the zodiac must represent Barnabas. Ugh.

Also note that each sun-God always had a headpiece of some sort that represented the sun's coronoa's. In Jesus' case, it was the crown of thorns.

That is quite a stretch. We are told it was to mock Jesus as the "Jewish King." Nothing to do with the sun.

Jesus technically had 13 disiples and technically there are 13 zodiac house, did you know that too? the 13th is the sign reisdes in the dark rift, or center of the galaxy.






Zeitgiest was put together AFTER Pharmacratic 2007 I believe, and has SOME of the same scenes,... so no I am not repeating just that movie but many many different facts that they shoved into that movie and many others,.... but yes I see (now that I watch zeitgiest) why some think I "just" watched it and am excited with my new found ideas? wrong... just finally wanted some public opinion. It has become clear who is blinded and who is truly searching


They say we are blinded, we say they are,... aren't we all be blinded by lies?

Oh my belief, this twisted view of GOD was done to us intentionally by the powers that be, just like 9-11 was intentionally done by the powers to be...

Fear of hell, fear of terror, always control through fear...

Get saved to avoid hell, Pay taxes to avoid hell, don't research or think to find truth because it would cause hell to your beliefs, we'll tell you what's truth, Fairy Tails are always better than reality.

If I had to give props to my inspiration it would be JORDAN MAXWELL


[edit on 1-2-2008 by KanehBosm]

[edit on 1-2-2008 by KanehBosm]

[edit on 1-2-2008 by KanehBosm]

Oh side note, Zeitgiest keeps getting mentioned... I am not a Alex Jones fan, I agree with some of his political views, but I believe he is being used like many christians are.

Oh side note, Zeitgiest keeps getting mentioned... I am not a Alex Jones fan, I agree with some of his political views, but I believe he is being used like many christians are.


sorry for the double post.

Thanks to those that help me explain the info we have been exposed to, and thank you Christians for regurgitating all the info I had heard for 38 years, going to private school for 12 years, church every sunday for years, I almost forgot all that "stuff" and when I mean "stuff" I mean door knobs.

[edit on 1-2-2008 by KanehBosm]

reply to post by mortalengine

Nice dude, I also like the hebrew screen name you use, sweet cane eh >? hehe

See some people do know what words mean,... KanehBosm in the Holy Annointing oil given to "moses"

some say cannibus, some say callimus... callimus is extacy when metabolized... was it weed or extacy in the holy annointnig oil? I am SURE Ashley will tell us what is really was....


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[edit on 1/2/2008 by Sauron]

Originally posted by KanehBosm
Jesus technically had 13 disiples and technically there are 13 zodiac house, did you know that too? the 13th is the sign reisdes in the dark rift, or center of the galaxy.

Yes, which is why I said in my above comment:

"Or a thirteen if you want to get technical and then Christ Mythers can claim the hidden sign of the zodiac must represent Barnabas. Ugh." We can't win. Christ Mythers will find correlations at all costs even if there were never 13 apostles at one time. Like you mentioned in the original post when you compared Jesus walking on the water with the sun "walking" on the water at sunrise and sunset. How do you refute such vagueness? You can't.

I offered an analogy in THIS comment on ATS to show just how easy it is show a correlation between anything, as silly as the coincidences may seem, and to point out the level of scholarship of such examples.

Hello folks, its my first post.

First off, i would like to take this time to humble myself and say I really do know nothing. From what i have read here i really do like most of ashley's arguments. Ash seems eager to provide sources so that the babblings have a foundation. I also have not heard the "because god said so" argument. I am just saying that if this was a debate AshleyD would be winning. Though i will say the only reason i kept reading this post is because there is a pretty even volley of ideas bouncing around.
ModernDystopia, you are dangerously confident in your findings. It may or may not be a coincidence. If it was proven fact nobody would be debating anything. Though you have very good points in your post the linksite was a little sketchy.
To me, it sounds possible that a few different cultures could have viewed the stars and looked upon them with adoration. then these cultures could have personofied the stars to make the astronomy of that day more interesting.(i live in Michigan and there is a story for the "Sleeping Bear Dunes" when really its just a natural land formation) Or there is a supreme being and he sent his only begotten son to die for our sins.

Or Apollo is pretty upset because he gets up very early in the morning and hauls the sun all the way across the sky and then he has to see all of these people not giving credit where credit is due.

I will add that humans are fallable, we write based on research and then people use our writings for their research and so on. All of these well researched writings just seem like compounded opinions.

No one can prove the existence or inexistence of a God ,Jesus or where they came from if we all knew beyond a shadow of a doubt that there was a man in the sky telling us how to live our lives and if we do what he says we can come live in the sky with him than i imagine people wouldnt like him very much. they would probably post about how god is an elitist. so leaving the gaps in the religious texts is what makes them so good.

If you read this, I thank you.

I am sorry for any dead horses i beat if things have been posted during the 45 minute time period it tooke me to write this. lol(At Work)

Also I did not intend to offend as all of you seem very well educated and would utterly smoke me in a debate. Thanks again.









[edit on 1-2-2008 by HollowPointPeace]

Also I did not intend to offend as all of you seem very well educated and would utterly smoke me in a debate. Thanks again.

I believe you hold your own! I believe you show more wisdom than "some" of these great thinkers! thanks for ringing in.


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[edit on 1/2/2008 by Sauron]

How would we know if sun-worship means "son worship"? Where did sun-worship & son worship begin? Who invented it?

[edit on 1-2-2008 by ahuman]