The "My Position on 911" Thread

reply to post by Valhall


My position with regard to the issues of the terror attacks of 9/11, and the ensuing controversies.


I believe one or more covert organizations within the U.S. Government recruited and manipulated extremist Muslims with the intent to carry out a high profile catastrophic attacks on U.S. soil. (This has happened before and will happen again.)

I believe those covert organizations had tacit approval for their operation from the highest levels of government to create a need for an international war on terrorism. However, this does not mean those at the highest levels were fully aware of the details of the actual attack plan. (Clandestine services typically freelance, with top-tier bureaucrats most often unaware of actual plans.)

I believe that extremist Islamic terrorists hijacked and flew plans into the buildings on 9/11. However, it is my firm belief that their training was on a level far greater and more professional than has been revealed to the public. (Extreme expert-level instruction in conjunction with a regimen of mind-altering/enhancing substances can result in a person fully able to expertly pilot themselves to their death.)

I believe that some degree of exotic munitions were deployed within the buildings to ensure a startling degree of destruction. (Inner core failure is impossible given the impact and fire damage released by NIST.)

I believe that a complex campaign of deception and purposeful obfuscation was initiated on the evening of 9/11/2001 designed to create a firestorm of conjecture related to the events. (All clandestine operations of this magnitude include planning for "the story" and "the cover" to ensure any leaks or mistakes are covered by an overwhelming degree of data.)

I believe that a cottage industry of for-profit conspiracy theorists calling themselves "Truthers" have further obfuscated the events with purposefully false and ridiculous notions to aid the pre-existing agendas of the anti-establishment activists from which they came. (The Truth Movement is composed of primarily intensely liberal, anti-government extremists who would otherwise be searching for reasons to engage in protest against a Republican administration.)

I believe that an Internet pastime has developed in that groups of people find pleasure in seeking out speculative discussions of potential 9/11 conspiracy theories and engaging in overly intense ridicule behind the convenience of online anonymity. Those who participate take perverse pleasure in their digital bullying activity. (In fact, an entire and popular online forum has developed as an organizational gathering point for this very activity.)

I believe that agents of the covert group responsible for planning the attacks have played a role in pushing the Truth Movement to extremism and absurdity, as well as having some role in encouraging the evolution of the ridicule-as-entertainment group. (This environment has created a "perfect storm" such that few, if any, legitimate journalists would dare get involved in 9/11-related scandals.)

I believe that intelligent examination of these issues is currently improbable. But I also believe that those with intelligence who wish to engage in impartial speculation based on factual material and historical record dare not stop.

If not us, then who?

If not now, then when?

If not here, then where?

If we stop, what will we see in the mirror?


[edit on 31-1-2008 by mister.old.school]

I really cannot state whether the planes were actually hijacked, or not, but I do believe that the planes were remote controlled into the twin towers. The flights did some ridiculous maneuvers that we have talked about....they didnt seem possible

I think that the US govenrment had a hand in this, but it extends beyond the president. We all watched him after finding out what happened....he looked like his best friend slapped him in the face....Dick Cheney is a suspect high on my list, along with the presidents father.

Money, power, and greed drove the attacks, but they did not come from terrorists from another country...they came from homeland terrorists. Even more frightening is that they are our leaders.

The buildings were demolished with explosives. This is apparent through the testimony of Willian Rodriguez and multiple firefighters on that day. Not to mention the news media and everything that was spewing all over the TV all morning. I heard the phrase multiple explosions more times than I can count......

Then we have the immense government coverup....telling people the air was clean, so they could work day and night to clean up the mess before anyone had the sense to launch a real investigation. Now we are going to see a massive loss of American life due to this, and it makes me sick. Not as sick as the workers who unbenounced to them....were doing the governments dirty work.


Thanks for the thread Val

My position

1) Mossad knew about the hijackers intent and warned our
government prior to 9/11. That's why they filmed it across
the river and sent it back to Israel and was released
from US custody.

2) The government knew the attack was coming and facilitated
it cuz they needed the towers to come down due to structural
flaws in design (galvanic corrosion). WTC 7 was brought down
due to evidence stored there concerning Securites and Exchange
Commission investigations (Enron, Worldcom, insider trading).
The evidence was destroyed when the building fell along with any
chance of further indictments.

3) They uncovered the plot when Z. Massoui was arrested which was
a mistake by a rookie. He would have been let go had his arrest not
been made public. The PTB came in and shut down further investigation
into it cuz they needed them to bring the buildings down. They were
the patsies for 9/11.

4) I don't think those 19 terrorist that we saw photos of were the actual
terrorists on the planes. I think some of their identities were faked, but they
were middle eastern Islamic extremists.

5) I think the terrorist showed fake pilot's licenses to the plane's
crew to gain access to the pilot area. Once there and after take-off
they sliced up the pilots from behind before they knew what was
happening which is why no transponder codes were set to hijack
code. They didn't have time. They attacked the pilots and removed
them from their seats while the plane was on auto-pilot.

6) I do believe a contingency plan was in place in the towers
which helped the collapse along. I believe thermite/mate was
used as part of that process. I also believe other devices were
planted in the building of which the contents will probably
never been known unless someone decides to talk. However,
I doubt that ever happens as they're probably fish food in the Atlantic
by now.

7) I believe the PTB had prior knowledge of the date of the attack
and intentionally had multiple defense forces engaged in exercises
far away from where the attack occurred. Thus giving the planes
a far better probability of hitting their targets without interference.
When they locked onto flight 77 (Pentagon) Cheney had to
over-rule the shoot-down order so the plane could strike
it's target. A snake can't bite you if you take away it's teeth.

8) I believe Dick Cheney did issue a stand-down order to what
little military assets were in place by sending them on a goose chase
over the Atlantic.

9) I believe the government had prior knowledge this was
gonna happen and allowed it to happen for their own purposes.

10) I do believe GW Bush and crew did try everything in their
power to obstruct the investigation of 9/11 including false statements
as to what they knew and when they knew it, thus making his
actions nothing less than treason against the people of the USA.

11) I believe GW Bush used 9/11 to sink this country into
further enslavement by using the war on terror to scare
us into submission to give up our rights and for us to be
blind to the fact.

12) I believe that I am ashamed to be called an American
after what we have allowed this administration to do to
us, this economy and the world. And for that, I truly am sorry.

13) I do believe there is video footage of flight 77 hitting
the Pentagon, but the gubment won't release it due to that
would reveal part of the Pentagon's Security measures in
place. As the video cameras are part of the defensive
mechanics of the facility. If the video is revealed it would
reveal national security secrets of how the building is protected.

14) I do think flight 93 was hit by bullets from a jet's machine gun
but not a missile. The bullet holes in the fuselage caused some of
the debris to fly off the plane but not down it. However, I think
those bullets coming into the plane were at the exact moment
the passengers were taking back the cockpit. The gubment won't
release the last 3 minutes of audio cuz it would reveal the terrorists
screaming "they're shooting at us".

I may have more in the future, but right now I'm going to bed.

reply to post by Valhall


My goodness, you read my mind. I actually was going to post this very idea and keep it from being a debate, just everyone posting their ideas on the subject. Then I come here and you got the idea up, that is a little weird.

My position on 9/11 is that there is a cover-up at the highest levels.
That the official version of events don't really 'jibe' with what I consider to be reasonable. That there are to many questions, to little answers and the possibilities of 'inside job' are really there, especially at the inner most levels (black ops).

I also think that the Bush family being tied with the Bin Laden family is a bit to coincidental, I personally think there is more going on.

WT7- for me was a clear case of a building demolition. That this alone implies "inside job" but I am willing to hear rational reasons.

I do believe REAL PLANES were used.
That it is possible that exotic weapons were used in the destruction of WTC, but I don't believe in DEW ideas.



[edit on 31-1-2008 by talisman]

Well I am a fence sitter . I am sure that the official story has discrepancy's due to the fact that the true nature of events isnt always known for a long period time. What I wonder about is how much prior knowledge the CIA and other intel agency's had pre 9-11 .

Put another way why didn't the likes of the CIA put the pieces of the jigsaw puzzle together ?

The problem is that you cant have a discussion of that nature without people making claims about say the Mossad being directly behind 9-11 and then its all down hill from there.

People still asking the question of December 7th 1941 so I doubt that we will ever get an entirely satisfactory answer.

As for the reason why my focus isnt on the towers well there are simply to many kooky conspiracy theory's out there for me to take the topic seriously. Just because something appears in a blog or You Tube video doesn't make it true. Bending the facts and taking statements out of context or running wild with them certainly isnt deny ignorance .

Its my opinion that the terror attacks of September 11, 2001 were orchestrated and carried out by some (not all) parts of the U.S. government/military. The lack of defensive action taken on 9/11/01 first led me to believe foreknowledge existed.

Since I cannot imagine a scenario where a gang of criminals allows another gang of criminals to carry out such a high-stakes plan without their full control, I don't believe there was any real hijackings on 09/11/01. The entire event was staged. Passengers were likely sent to some security screening room, killed and dumped onto planes that were then remotely controlled.

Whatever hit the Pentagon was not a full sized passenger plane. A smaller plane painted up to loosely mimic a passenger plane was likely used.

Flight 93 and the transcript of events that transpired there was staged as well. For some reason I can only suspect was to create some dramatic fallibility to the fake terrorist plot and not have it appear to go off perfectly.

The World Trade Center 7 building's apparent demoltion done long after collapse of the large towers is seemingly a gaffe in the plot. Maybe it was supposed to go down when the towers fell and the button didn't work. For whatever reason, the demolition of the WTC7 building was apparent and certainly a mistake on the part of the conspirators.

The anthrax attacks that occured with the White House staff already taking antibiotics in anticipation of the event that has led to a U.S. source were apparently done to stop dissention within the U.S. legislative branch and perhaps kill at least one disliked journalist. Or maybe the journalist's killing was done as a red-herring.

The reasons for the event are obvious after the fact. A new global conflict in which to extend Cold War era spending for a massive military machine that was crumbling from lack of an enemy and wars to justify new military expenditures.

[edit on 1-2-2008 by Frith]

9 1 1 was a long time in the making and the first 1993 bomb was a test run or at least part of the planned attacks.

It was planned and carried out by the Elite with full knowledge of all governments and the 5-6 media outlets across the world, at the level that was needed to participate and play their part.

Analysis, IMHO, is impossible ( but it is interesting to see the amount of hard effort that’s applied by some of the very intelligent people posting on here) because we don’t have the correct information. I believe that we are trying to analyse their false/planted data/film/photo’s etc. However, we can certainly debate the process from government attack to media’s cooperating with the sham and the public’s acceptance of the event.

But more worrying is that I believe 9 1 1 is a way of conditioning the world population to accept living, in government controlled/contrived fear with the solution of us giving them more control to achieve are safety (nothing new here I know).

The US/UK sheep have proven that they are now controlled to accept what happened on 911 and 7th July in the (UK) without question. The elite have their twentieth century mandate for even more daring staged attacks across the world.

If government tell me there is a problem, it is they who have knowingly created it!

If the elites media show me a problem I know that its not to inform me but condition me!

Like gottago, I believe 9/11 needs to be considered in an historical context and not as an event.

When you do so, I believe things become clearer, even, dare I say, obvious. I have posted on this a lot and, if anyone who hasn't already done so is interested, they can read my thoughts here (note: this links to five long articles that appear in reverse order).

I have no firm view of what happened in New York, Washington and Shanksville. Further, I strongly suspect that, in the absence of any physical evidence to examine, it will prove impossible for anyone to establish what did happen, short of a confession from a whistleblower.

But there is one rather unsexy avenue to explore: the relationship between elements within the US - such as the CIA - and so-called Islamic militants. Because if it can be shown that their former well-documented relationships were never severed, the myth that al Qaeda perpetrated the attacks will be without foundation.

So, this is my view: that whatever happened on 9/11, happened as the direct result of collusion between elements within the US and so-called Islamic militants, or mercenaries.

ETA: had I read mister.old.school's post, I might not have replied myself, since I think he has it pretty much spot on.

[edit on 1-2-2008 by coughymachine]

My view of 9/11


The odds of the US military conducting a training exercise for an attack on the US by terrorists, using airplanes as weapons, at the exact same time, as an actual terrorist attack, have to be astromomical at best. Without prior knowledge at least. Just an unfortunate coincidence? I think not.

Hundreds of wayward aircraft before, and since have been intercepted successfully, but not on Sept 11 2001. officially none of the 4 were intercepted, That is the biggest question in my mind.

Oh, one other thing, where were the engine markings on the Pentagon? Even if they (the wings) did indeed, fold back, there is no way in hell, they could fold back before the engines hit the building.

My take on 911 is that yes arab highjackers were part of a drill that day and that drill was paralleled by another drill.

1 Drill was an exercise 2nd drill went real world. Once the agents participating in the drill realized they did not have control of the aircraft they were actually in the cockpit trying to override the remote take over but could not so they were scared as well.


The lights or flashes you see on the World Trade Center was a laser designator for the plane. The plane did not fire a missile...the plane was the missile.

The perfect controlled demolition of a 110 story building (never been done, couldnt be done in a conventional controlled collapse) The buildings are so tall they would actually collapse the buildings in a 2 part series to prevent a topple.

The controlled demolition of WTC towers 1 and 2 was done by a particle accelerator or ie: directed energy platform. Building 7 was brought down by conventional demolition procedures.

Now that I have just about nailed the entire event with 97% accuracy I hope I dont get a visit. On the other hand...what I have said is so ludicrous that agents will not hassel me because they realize most are cynical, skeptical, and all locked up in analysis and will most definately roll their eyes at what I just said happened that day.

My official position on 9/11 is that I have no Official position other than it was a big lie that killed a lot of innocent people and frightened even more into giving up inalienable rights that once gave this nation the possibility of becoming the only truly free country.

9/11 showed the entire world that the ideals which were once held by idealistic and hopeful people was nothing but an enormous land grab disguised as an opportunity for anyone living in oppression and tyranny. Its was really a call for willing slaves because our leaders were too lazy to send ships to get a forced slave labor force:

"Give us your tired, your poor and your hungry" We will sell them slavery- but they will see it as opportunity.

It was the greatest sales gimmick of all time. The entire world bought it- and sadly I did too.

[edit on 1-2-2008 by dk3000]

---- My view of 9/11 ----

Is the sum of all previous posts wrapped inside a burrito hand made by chef's we will probably never see.

Without a doubt there are more ingredients within this burrito that we can taste but will never know the origin. It tastes horrible though and I want to throw it back up but alas, it's already been digested.

An after taste of 9/11 is the mouth puckering seasoning of the world's freedom. It's choking many and millions have died from this delicacy of destruction and many more from the internal disease it's spreading within the world veins.

We need a doctor to pump our stomachs.

-------

Thanks Val for this thread as It's the first one that I am sending to everyone I know in my life. Whether anyone agrees with the belief structure in here or not doesn't matter. The unified approach is why I'm forwarding and hopefully will bring some new members of intellect.

b

Here is a list of events I believe happened around 9/11.

Israeli intelligence was allowed into the US to monitor the AQ hijackers and to report on AQ activities to the CIA and FBI. The Israelis used the cover of Israeli Art Students and discovered the plan of attack on 9/11. Israel made a few reports back to our government but did not tell the US of the planned attacks. The United States government did not know we were about to be attacked but Israel did know and kept this information from us.

Mohammed Atta helped prepare bomb inside a camera that was to be used for an interview and assassination of President Bush. The planned assassination failed when Secret Service personal refused the Arab newsmen from interviewing Bush that morning in Florida on 9/11.

Islamic extremists hijacked four airliners and crashed them into WTC 1, WTC 2 and the Pentagon. The fourth plane that targeted Congress was shot-down over Pennsylvania. Other planes were scheduled to be hijacked that morning but never took off due to them being grounded by the FAA.

Two fighter aircraft from Otis Air National Guard base arrived in NYC as the second plane crashed into WTC 2. Missiles were fired at Flight 175 but missed the plane. One missile flew over the WTC plaza and into the Hudson River. Another missile hit on the lower floors of WTC 7 (south side) starting fires, just seconds after the impact of Flight 175 into WTC 2. Barry Jennings and Michael Hess were in a stairwell in WTC 7 and experienced the missile explosion.

WTC 7 was pulled in a controlled demolition at 5:20 that afternoon by a special demolition team. WTC 7 was damaged on the southwest corner after the collapse of WTC 1 and may have collapsed into the search and rescue area. The controlled demolition of WTC 7 was necessary to continue ongoing search and rescue.

The anthrax attacks were launched weeks later by Israeli intelligence in order to terrorize America and create a debate concerning weapons of mass destruction. The anthrax attacks was a Mossad operation to get the US to invade and overthrow Iraq.

Hector

reply to post by Valhall



First, star and flag. Excellent exercise IMO.

My position:

I feel the towers and seven were helped in some way to collapse. The terrorists were not just camel jockeys from Saudia Arabia. They had training, intellegence, money to back them up, etc. So, I believe it is very concievable that the terrorists are the true pawns in this game of chess.

Now, who sat back and allowed things to happen is another question that I can't speculate on.

One thing I do know though is structural engineering and lets just say the way those buildings collapsed doesn't sit well with me. I could very well be proven wrong. And I'd be the first to admit it.

Well, that's enough for now. I'll add to the thread when more things come to mind.

p.s. I also believe the way the investigation was handled was a farse.

First of all thanks to Valhall for this opportunitity, the way the thread has been laid out is outstanding and my respect to everyone that has taken the time to post their opinions in this thread.

My position on 9-11

1. There was a breakdown in the intelligence community. Whether that breakdown was intentional or not to me is unexcusable, so IMHO the U.S. Government that is in charge to protect us failed us that day, this either intentionally or not is a fact an a unexcusable one.

2. The attacks happen as they were reported, planes were used in the Pentagon, WTC and Pa. Hijackers were radical muslims extremist as reported, people on the plane dies as reported.

3. As far as the collapse of the Towers even though i'm not fully convinced of the NIST report, but I havent seeing one single CT that can account for all the elements involved in their theories, so in this case and given the unprecedent nature of these attacks, I will apply OCCAM RAZOR in this case and give the advantage to NIST.

My main doubts about the official story:
1. Why WTC 7 collapse?
2. Why federal agencies (FBI) retrieve the videos of cameras that were close to the Pentagon and have never release those? (According to many CT?)

My main doubts about many of the CT:
1. I havent heard to this day one single theory that would put forth a comprehensive explanation of how the attacks would have been carried out.
2. Many CT open the door to scenarios that would call for far too many people to be directly and inderectly involved in the attacks, leaving the door open for far too many risk being taken by the supposed perpetrators which is directly opposed to what an operation like this one would have been managed.

Conclusion:

IMHO if you put the official story, side by side with each single CT, the official story wins in every case. Yes there will be holes in the official story but they would not compare to the holes that can be found in each single CT.


Edit for spelling



[edit on 2-2-2008 by Bunch]

I finally got time to sit down and contribute to this thread, Now where to begin.

I think the biggest smoking gun, even larger than the collapse of building #7 is the fact that there was no real investigation into the events of 9/11. Let me explain.

The Bush administration fought tooth and nail to keep any investigation from happening. When that became inevitable they underfunded it and made sure that the investigators were from inside the administration. Any finding or fact could be excluded from the final report if only one member of the committee objected. The NIST investigation was a complete sham, orchestrated from the inside to make sure nothing was made public that the Bush administration did not personally approve.

100,000 dollars was wired to the leader, Atta, just before the attacks, by the Pakistani secret service, yet the committee declared that who funded the terrorist attacks were of no consequence. Like hell it was of no consequence.

9/11 has never been investigated by an independent committee of an standing. The reason for that is the Bush administration will not allow it. This is proof, absolute proof, that the administration was involved in what happened that day.

9/11 was an inside job. They may not have actully planned the attacks, but I have no doubt they knew about them ahead of time and did nothing to stop them. They most likely did all they could to facilitate the events.

This is just my opinion,

wupy

Got a pen?


The terrorist attack on 9/11 was an inside job. Bush knocked down the towers.

Whether or not he actually flew the plane into the World Trade Center is not the issue here.

The government knew what was going to happen. Not every single government employee, but some of the "higher ups" with something to gain from such an event knew.

How much money was made on 9/11?

How much have we spent on military-industrial complex since 2001?

The year is now 2008 and we've been at "conflict" with Iraq now for FIVE years. Why is this significant?

"Without 9/11, you couldn't have a war in Iraq." Immortal Technique

Exactly my thoughts tech.

So why does a rapper know 9/11 was an inside job? Because you're too transparent Cheney. We saw your Afghanistan oil pipeline from a mile away.

Carting all of Iraq's oil off to where? Where did you plan on putting all this oil Mr. Cheney?

We got duped, big time.

Here is a quote from another thread which sums up how I feel:

The story we were told is not how it happened. Do I believe two planes hit the towers? Yes I do.

But I don't believe two skyscrapers fell because two airliners crashed into them. Micro nukes were used as were welders on the support cables. A guided missile was used on the Pentagon.

Where did the planes go? They pretty much vaporized. That is what happens when two objects hit each other at such speeds. It is also possible the structural integrity was compromised due to the explosions from the bombs. However, the melting point of the building material is much higher than the highest temperature of the fire.

Those buildings were helped down. Tower 7 was pulled.

I said it. Tower 7 was demolished.

One airliner was shot down by the US Air Force with civilian passengers on it.

I am wondering where the passengers went?

Were they all put on the plane that was shot down to hide the evidence?

We have remote control planes on a small scale, why not a large scale?

These buildings had terrorists attack them alright.

What you don't hear is their connection to the government.

Al Qaeda was trained by the CIA.

We even have a Boeing spokesperson laughing at the idea of a 767 reaching a cruising speed of 500mph at 700 feet in elevation.

The wind speed would be too high and the lift not enough for a plane of that size.

It would crash. No 80th story hit or whatever it was. Ground floor would have been pretty messed up, but there would be no collapse of the building if the plane actually hit 500 mph.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

Mossad was involved along with the CIA and I don't know how many other intelligence agencies. The Pakistani intelligence agency has been involved in other crimes so I wouldn't be surprised they had a hand in 9/11 as well.


5 Dancing Israelis on 9/11 (Four?)

Israelis detained on GW bridge on 9/11 sue DOJ

Evidence:




Bush needed an excuse to attack Iraq and Afghanistan.

There is no better reason than a fabricated attack from the terrorists of Al Qaeda, a CIA operative group.

Blackwater, Halliburton, and other mercenary contractor forces moved in with the soldiers and there's been a media blackout called on them.

We don't hear any stories in the mainstream about these people. An Army commander had a run in with Blackwater mercs and was nearly run off the road.

Questions?

Hello,

The very simple sum of my research and intuition is as follows.

The State of Israel's "MOSSAD" agency executed a covert operation to mass murder Americans, bring down World Trade Center buildings, destroy a major bridge (GW) in Manhattan, and damage the Pentagon and White House all with 757 and 767 aeroplanes and other resources. Some of these objectives were completed successfully, others were apprehended by elements of DOD.

The assets used to execute this operation included temporary residents flown in from the Middle East, and United States dual citizens acting as moles in the Federal government, NSA, CIA, and other United States infastructure. Technology was deployed from Israeli advanced weapons programmes, not limited to demolition yield fusion explosives, remote control systems, and digital manipulation of voice and image. Real aircraft manufactured by Boeing company were stolen and prepared for the operation. They were flown at structually safe altitudes until the last possibly feasible moments, for example with New York bound planes they were caught on radar as decending in a dive before levelling out at low altitude for the final approach.

The United States government excluding aforementioned moles is innocent of the charge of an inside job. That is not to say they are unaware or even disapprove of the situation. The blame lies entirely on the individuals of Israeli allegiance that conspire to commit mass murder on American soil as an act of twisted self preservation and national investment.

Suspects

Dov Zakheim - CEO of remote company & Shul Rabbi, Pentagon comptroller.

Ari Fliescher - connected israeli extemeist, white house spokesman

Jack Abramoff - convicted criminal and israeli lobbyist, dep of interior

Mark Grossman - met ISI heads shortly before 911, sec for pol affairs

Doug Feith - family zionist terrorism, investigated for spying, war dept

Paul Wolfowitz - investigated for israeli spying, war dept & iraq, W.B.

Michael Chertoff - freed over 100 Israeli spies after 911, head of Homsec.

All above are Dual Citizens of Israel and United States, all have strong zionist motivations. All hold positions of power in US Gov at 9/11. All played a role.

Key but partial listing of information:

1. www.youtube.com...
2. www.youtube.com...
3. www.amazon.com...
4. www.abovetopsecret.com...
5. www.youtube.com...
6. www.youtube.com...
7. www.studyof911.com...
8. www.mideastweb.org...
9. www.washingtonpost.com...
10A. en.wikipedia.org...
10B. en.wikipedia.org...

Thanks.

[edit on 2008/2/9 by SteveR]

[edit on 2008/2/9 by SteveR]