Sex Wars: Battle For Planet Earth!

My premise: Love and hate are both compatible with sexual desire. But hatred, being typically a more powerful, and more sustainable emotion than love, more commonly drives sexual relationships. In particular, the domination of women by men is a powerful meme which is probably indispensable to the mechanisms of natural selection.

Three cases in point:

#1. I have a stallion in my pasture. He pines all day for the three mares in my other pasture. He spends a lot of time at the gate. These mares constantly taunt him. Occasionally, he gets into the pasture with the mares, and proceeds to kick, bite, and scar them mercilessly. He totally wants to dominate them. Otherwise, he is a very gentle and intelligent horse, who is quite friendly to humans.

#2. I have several married friends I have known for years. I am close to these people. I went to their weddings. For a long while, their relationships were the model of romance and happiness. One by one their marriages have split up in horrific and protracted battles, each side being extraordinarily cruel to the other. What started off with gentle love quickly is soon reduced to multiple years of marked hatred. Individually, these people are still delightful in every way.

#3. Large segments of the human population dominate the opposite sex, most obviously Muslim countries in their domination of women, but arguably other sectors, including in the USA. Women didn’t get the vote in the USA and UK until the 1920’s. Women didn’t get the vote in France until 1945. Sexual slavery still exists. Weird sadistic porn is quite prevalent. And, privately, within their own genders, men and women constantly degrade, ridicule, and hate the opposite sex! You would have to very sheltered not to see this clearly, even in the “enlightened” western countries.

Given the above, it appears to me we are faced with a protracted, and disturbing gender war. No resolution is coming soon. Perhaps no resolution actually exists.

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(By the way. For the time being, I’m giving a rest to the “hard” topics at ATS, like Consciousness, Synchronicity, or whether God exists. There are too many brilliant minds out there at ATS, and I feel a bit humbled. So I’m going to stick with the more sensationalist topics for a while. Like this one. I just want to explain that, if the post title is less than obvious regarding my intentions here.)

Hey there interesting thoughts,

1 I think man is different from animal (the MSM is trying to compare man and animal the same lately)

2 Marriage is unnatural in any living form (a form of control manifested by religion)

3 Religion is designed to dominate women (religion is also a man made control mechinism, and is in this day outdated)

Just my thought of course...no proof

watchZEITGEISTnow

reply to post by watchZEITGEISTnow

#1. We are definitely not just mere animals. But we can see our behavior in them. We are a much more intricate design. The Sex War is highly complex and intricate! It is similar to the biting and kicking of my horses, but conducted on a higher level.

#2. The Sex War is codified in our religious beliefs. (Good point, WatchZeizgeist!) It is a type of religious war. That makes it even more difficult to end! I contend that the male gender is so intent on winning the Sex War that it has been wrapped with religious beliefs! (A great victory for men, by the way!)

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Here are some more (maybe outlandish) assertions

#1. The Iraqi war is a major battlefield of the Sex War. Women have convinced men (rightly so) that radical Islam's treatment of women is prohibitive. It is one of the few fair justifications of why we oppose Islam in the West. Gender helps perpetuate the war. We fight Islam, in part, because of the way that religion regards women. It is a great victory for women that men are willing to put themselves in danger for this!

#2. The visible results of the Sex War are a rise in unmarried pregnancies, homosexuality, divorce, prostitution, pornography, and sexual crimes. There are real casualties in this war. They suffer! They have permanent disabilities!

#3. Sex is a often thought of as a gentle and spiritual act. It most certainly can be. But you have to consider sex to be an incredible weapon – a horribly vicious weapon -- especially when against spouses. What couple does not fear infidelity? How many couples have (at least) considered using sex as a weapon during a fight? How many marriages have been instantly ruined, lives discarded, because this one particular marriage vow was broken?

#4. The Sex War has no national boundaries. The warring factions are delineated by gender, and not by geographical border. And the sides are evenly matched in numbers. Men are winning right now, decidedly so. Women have not lost yet – not by a long shot. It is being fought fiercely, and I have no doubt that it will be fought to a final conclusion.

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Finally -- I want to make this clear – the Sex War it is a COVERT WAR.

Nobody wants to acknowledge that it exists. And for that reason, I will not be surprised by a lack of responses to this thread. Nobody wants to discuss this very real and deadly phenomenon. It takes a lot of honesty to do that, because men and women fear retaliation and reprisal, either overtly or covertly. That kills open discussion, even among anonymous participants!

We have plenty of time to let this topic simmer. The Sex War is going to continue for a long, long time.

I just received a comment from a female friend (which I will relay here, due to the dearth of other comments to this thread.) She said:

Huh? You can’t be serious! Are you trying to be funny? Or what?

I will tell you the same thing I told her: If you think its funny that millions of women are enslaved by men, that people commit suicide daily over lost love, that separation and divorce are at the top positions on the Homes and Rahe Stress Scale (ranking even above imprisonment, and loss of a family member), and SPOUSES KILL EACH OTHER in roughly equal numbers, irrespective of gender, then I guess this is a pretty humorous topic.

If you’ve never suffered at the hands of the opposite sex (and both men and women can suffer, most assuredly) you won’t have any idea what I am talking about. Good for you! You probably have a blast here at ATS. Knock yourself out. Roll on the floor with laughter.

However, if you get just a vague understanding of this problem, then I want you to seriously consider this for a moment. For some reason, nature has provided two separate versions of humanity. These two versions are different in ways that transcend race, nationality, belief, or any other physical appearances. These two versions of humanity are fighting each other. The war has been going on for all of human existence. It is a war for supremacy of the planet earth. (Oh yes – don’t doubt it. THE MALE GENDER is WINNING, which should depress about half of you.)

It is the ancient Yin-Yang. The genders complement and oppose each other. It is quite dysfunctional.

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In some future post, hopefully not to long from now, I will provide a plan (bizarre as it may be) to end this eternal war, equitably. Fairly. Yeah – there really is a point to this rant.

I have a plan, poor as it may be. I will share it with you.

Hint: it starts with the idea that men and women are completely equal, in all respects. We all share the same qualia. I’m not looking for a killing blow by my side in this war. Quite the opposite. If you are rational, you aren’t looking for victory either.

First, I will give you time to digest all of this. I will check back at a future date, to see if anyone cares.

Until then...

Not that I believe there are ever any real winners in any war but I'd like to bring to the conversation an alternative viewpoint.

There are quite a number of geneticists who recognize that there is indeed a gender war and, at the genetic level at least, females are winning. Quite a number of hereditary diseases are X-linked; meaning that male offspring inherit the disease from their mothers. There is some indication that homosexuality may be X-linked. Not that I view homosexuality as a disease, but it does tend to reduce the number of males willing to breed with females cutting down on the number of males trying to clone themselves reproductively.

Matt Ridley, in his book entitled Genome, put forth the proposition that females can, by consistently choosing which males to mate with over many generations, alter the shape, color, size, etc of the male of their species.

I'd be interested to hear your proposition for detante'.

Originally posted by Buck Division
#1. I have a stallion in my pasture. He pines all day for the three mares in my other pasture. He spends a lot of time at the gate. These mares constantly taunt him. Occasionally, he gets into the pasture with the mares, and proceeds to kick, bite, and scar them mercilessly. He totally wants to dominate them. Otherwise, he is a very gentle and intelligent horse, who is quite friendly to humans.

I find this amazingly analogous to human sexual behavior. The males tend to try to dominate by physical superiority, including economic superiority, while the females try to dominate by guile. (and usually succeed) It is indeed a war, one I'm very happy to have sat out for most of a decade now.

Originally posted by Buck Division
#2. The visible results of the Sex War are a rise in unmarried pregnancies, homosexuality, divorce, prostitution, pornography, and sexual crimes. There are real casualties in this war. They suffer! They have permanent disabilities!

Great observations, but I'll go you one further; that much of these problems are not just the result of the sexes battle for dominance, but of the PTB pitting us against one another in yet another level of the divide and conquer scheme. The unrealistic body images we are fed, the too early introductions to sexual images and behaviors, and the attempted normalization of all manner of sexual deviance are all part and parcel IMO. Sex is an incredibly powerful weapon, not just between the sexes, but against them both, to be used by those who would dominate both.

I'm a little disappointed that the OP would taunt us with a tantalizing promise of good things to follow and then not deliver. Where are ya BD?

Originally posted by whitewave
I'm a little disappointed that the OP would taunt us with a tantalizing promise of good things to follow and then not deliver. Where are ya BD?

I promise you Whitewave, the manifesto is coming. It will be worth the wait.

If you haven't seen this yet, please review this ATS thread:

www.abovetopsecret.com...

The above article speaks volumes. Score a minor round in favor of the female gender. It will require more than just this to win the Sex War, but it is a solid punch, even if it falls short of a complete smack down.

Look for my plan in a week or two. No rush here -- we've been in this conflict for ten-thousand generations of humanity. Another few days isn't going to matter, I am sure you will agree.

Interesting thoughts there, Buck.

This has been going on for about ever, I guess. Somehow there's a universal understanding of the image of the caveman dragging the cavewoman into his cave.

I wonder, though, if it's about sex, or if it's just about dominance in general, and happens to manifest itself more often in male/female relationships due to this being the most common type of relationship?

It's generally believed, I think, that in any relationship there will be a dominant personality and a submissive. In groups of more then two, there's generally a hierarchy from the most dominant to the most submissive.

Since the most common relationship seems to be one between male and female, this is where the dominant/submissive battle would most often be fought, and if taken as a single set, the battle could easily be seen as a male/female war.

However, if the male/female relationship is taken with all other relationships as a group, it could be seen that that it's not so much a male/female war, but simply a human/human war, as all groups, whether comprised of one sex or two, act pretty much the same, with the most dominant personality battling his/her way to the top.

I don't know why it's set up like that, but is.



Of course, I could be totally talking out my wazoo, too.
Good post, anyway.

reply to post by Buck Division


*taps foot impatiently*

Oo, Oo! A whole Manifesto, eh? Guess I'll amuse myself with the what's in your cd player thread until you enlighten us all on how to end the senseless feuding between the sexes.

Really am looking forward to some practical solutions. I feel it's going to take a paradigm shift of major proportions to end this eternal battle.

Here is a prescription to end the eternal gender war. I know this proposal will seem bizarre, even for ATS. I expect a lot of resistance from the officers of this war, who will be quick to dismiss these measures as either impractical or unnecessary. I imagine a lot of responses such as “But I like XYZ. Why should I change?” and “Why fix what isn’t broken?” and “This is moronic”. Criticisms of this type should be flatly rejected as just more insane warmongering. Desperate times call for drastic measures.

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#1. Provide the environment for an end to the Sex War, by implementing a “gender balanced” government. Amend the USA constitution as follows: of the two USA Senators that represent each state, each Senator must be a different gender. Each sex casts votes ONLY for the Senator that represents their sex. Men elect the male Senator. Women elect the female Senator. This will provide a political framework for implementing the various other proposals I provide below.

#2. Increase uniformity between the sexes, de-emphasizing gender differences. There are so many elements of society that reinforce sexual contrast! For example, I propose the establishment modest and gender-neutral mandatory dress codes. (I would suggest some sort of loose fitting unisex gray cotton pantsuits, with long sleeve shirts, with no hats or ties. Pink and blue colors should be outlawed for any form of dress.) Another example remedy: mix genders for all sports teams. American football (for example) would be a lot more interesting if half the players on both teams were women. Modify the rules so that no player can touch the opposite sex without a ten-yard penalty. That would work for me.

#3. Outlaw all forms of pornography, the use of sex in any advertising, or any suggestive language on television or in public discourse. It is just pure provocation to continue with the status quo here. Let’s get people off of the internet and out of x-rated theatres, and into the real world, where legitimate forces (outside of human imagination) can apply leverage and control. End the governance of the real world by that which is unreal! We are the victim of stereotypes, perpetrated for the profit of others, manipulating us into a frenzy that leads to pointless pain and artificially immutable positions.

#4. Codify the temporary marriage contract. No marriage commitment should last past one year. Just make renewal of a marriage certificate a routine, like filling out your income tax form. Any marriage that is not renewed is automatically dissolved, fault-free, and people can move on. For those love birds that are looking for a life long commitment, by all means renew those vows each year, and more power to you! I have seen too many marriages that began with two years of bliss, and ended in ten years of subsequent agony.

#5. Mandate GPS tracking info, shared by all married couples. Consider that two people, in love, share the most intimate relationship achievable in this world. We might as well go the full way here, and force couples to wear unremovable GPS tracking ankle bracelets, so as to increase marriage trust factors. It is just a pragmatic extension of the traditional wedding band! You already share so much with your spouse! Don’t you want to know where he or she is? At all times? Of course you do! One heart. One being.

#6. Require mandatory enrollment of all single adult citizens in a national online dating service. With marriage being just a temporary institution (above) I fear that some people might feel lonely, and become discarded. I propose that all people, not currently contracted in marriage, must be drafted into an online dating service, make themselves available to members of the opposite sex for dating. Note that this enrollment is MANDADORY! We can’t let shyness stand in the way of progress.

#7. Establish a national system of Sex Points and Sex Ratings. We all live with credit ratings imposed upon us, as an arbitrary judgment by others as to our credit worthiness. I propose the exact same thing, except with regard to our sexual behaviors. You receive points based upon the number of positive encounters you have with the opposite sex, as reviewed by a mixed gender panel. (Does not necessarily mean consummate sexual encounters, but that may count heavily.) Note that this works pretty well for ATS (so it appears); this Sex Rating would be very helpful in the mandatory online dating service described in the previous point, permitting easy and rapid assessment of possible compatibilities, and promoting generous dating activities. Plus, you are consoled after any bad date with a liberal Sex Point reward.

#8. Create compulsory arranged marriages. Any person who fails to meet a specific number of dates per time period, or remains single too long, will be subject to compulsory civil union (temporary of course, as with all marriage contracts). These compulsory civil unions would be selected by a gender-neutral panel of matchmakers, as empowered by the state. This will be the ultimate solution to bringing two shy hearts to blissful union.

#9. Finally, create the gender police, a secret society of dedicated men and women who are on the prowl for any violation of the above rules. This panel could provide applause to increase sex points, could reduce sex points, facilitate love relationships, and in general furnish those elements needed to ensure this new system functions as expected. As an extreme measure, this group could make liberal and covert use of Depo-SubQ Provera 104 (a.k.a. temporary chemical castration) for the more violent and anti-social offenders of the Sex War.

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Those are my suggestions. Obviously, there are certain aspects that I haven’t addressed, such as the place of progeny in this scheme, how to address same sex orientations, or how we solve income inequity between the genders. I will leave that as an exercise to others, having made this brave start. I will only guess that solutions are even possible.

But I can affirm this: hate can be conquered by love. Do not lose faith in that.

Thanks for listening.

“In dreams and in love there are no impossibilities.” -- Janos Arany

[edit on 8-2-2008 by Buck Division]

There is so much wrong with your ideas here that I don't even know where to begin.

So I won't.

Originally posted by Buck Division
But I can affirm this: hate can be conquered by love. Do not lose faith in that.

Absolutely true - as to the rest I think that you have spent too much time with the Stud. Your opinion and you have every right to it.

Men are not from Mars and women are not from Venus (as far as I know but I mean figuratively not literally). We need to remember that each human being is an individual with entirely different thought patterns and responses to the next person. There are a million possible solutions to our current condition and none of them will work for every individual. Some women wish to fight in wars, some men would like to stay at home and care for the children. There is no room to generalise or homogenise based on gender.

The fact that over successive generations we have tried to place people in a box is very much a part of the problem that we face now. So many men and women are unable to communicate effectively with the opposite sex and the media has force fed unrealistic expectations of what love and sex are. Confusion is quite understandably rife.

The most essential element to any human relationship is compromise and the "me" generations are often unable to comprehend this. Perfection does not exist. If we all conformed to a set plan, where would the fun, the passion and the discourse be? Many are unable to differentiate between love and sex.

There are incredible social problems based on sexuality and gender. Much can be explained by the fact that we have been through such a rapid social evolution. In the space of a few thousand years we have gone from living in small social groups where the individuals in that groups fulfilled a multitude of roles to living in virtual solitude while surrounded by thousands of unrelated and unknown humans. It is not compatible to the nature and skills that drove our evolution and there are many unhappy souls trying to find meaning and substance in a life without meaning and substance. We have to adapt and hopefully the species will do so before it destroys itself.

Just wanted to let you know that your vision of marriage is not totally accurate.

I've been married over 30 years. My wife and I are good friends and enjoy spending time with each other. The romance still exists.

We are not locked in a battle for dominance.

We've raised two kids and now that their up and getting on with their own lives we are still together and having fun.

Best of luck with your life and loves.

reply to post by Buck Division


Very funny, BD. The entertainment factor alone was worth the wait. Well done.

Although I did rather like the mandatory online dating suggestion, I see a couple of problems with it. 1) Unless a very stringent psychological testing is performed on all parties to determine real compatibility, a happy pairing would be a lightning strike of luck. 2) Even with a psych test, no room is left for personal growth or change unless the test were retaken every few years. Things you prefer in a companion/mate change with age/maturity.

The gender police was hilarious. Your offended mate tracks you down with GPS tracking and before you know it, the gender police are there saying, "allright you two, kiss and make up or it's a night at the Holiday Inn for you both. Don't make me have to haul you in to the honeymoon suite." LOL

I genuinely liked the one year marriage renewal proposal. No muss, no fuss, no fault. Of course property and children are the real considerations in marriages-otherwise you're just dating. Marriages are contracts, and, if made self-renewing every year like your cell phone contracts, some protection needs to be afforded all parties involved against unacceptable losses.

The male/female Senator suggestion was just silly. For one thing, it assumes both genders are equally qualified to meet the job requirements. They may or may not be depending on the individual. If more qualified men are available than qualified women, do we "settle" for a less qualified affirmative action choice over some arbitrary prejudice? Second, it just raises the lethality of the war to people who have real power to make us all genuinely miserable.

Loose-fitting grey cotton pantsuits? Got some, thanks. Don't get a lot of dates wearing them. LOL. Squelches individual expression.

Outlawing pornography and sex-based advertising was/is a good idea. The only practical problem I see with that is: who defines what constitutes pornography?

Loved the "manifesto" but I fear you won't have many takers. Still, it's good to recognize the problems facing us and to explore all the options.

A star for your creative effort towards a solution!

A final postscript, to clean things up....

The stallion I spoke of, at the start of the thread, four months ago -- we sold him last month. He's going to a farm in another state, where that exceptional homozygous bloodline (such as it is) will be perpetuated for at least another generation or so. He is going to be a stud horse. He is now in horse-heaven on earth.

We also have a colt -- a yearling. He's being gelded soon. I feel kind of bad about that, being a guy -- but I’ve had enough. I can’t watch those mares torture that little fellow the way things rolled-out with the stallion. He is going to be a lot happier that way. (He's just a horse, after all. He's oblivious.)

Score one final point for the female gender on this one.

reply to post by Buck Division


This is just a little pet theory of mine, but I believe the reason there is so much friction between most married couples is this: Humans were not 'designed' to be in monogamous relationships. Therefore we have to constantly fight our natural instincts and remain faithful to the one we are with. This inner conflict, over time, causes resentment and hatred for ourselves, and then for our mate.

Sort of a nurture v. nature thing. Society tells us to remain married and faithful (nurture), while nature tells us to 'be fruitful and multiply'.

Originally posted by Coshy
reply to post by Buck Division

 

This is just a little pet theory of mine, but I believe the reason there is so much friction between most married couples is this: Humans were not 'designed' to be in monogamous relationships. Therefore we have to constantly fight our natural instincts and remain faithful to the one we are with. This inner conflict, over time, causes resentment and hatred for ourselves, and then for our mate.

Sort of a nurture v. nature thing. Society tells us to remain married and faithful (nurture), while nature tells us to 'be fruitful and multiply'.

I think that is very close to the truth, in many cases. I like to think that we aren't designed to be in an monogamous relationship, but we do have the ability to overcome our design because of real love and finding a soulmate.

This thread makes some interesting observations

I have noticed that angry sex is amazing. I was going to write 'sometimes' in there, but I would be deluding myself

Domination features heavily in all forms of sex in all species. Look at evolution. Strongest male in some species with them fighting amongst themselves to be given the chance to mate or to protect a herd, or in others the female is the huge dominator, outsizing or stronger than the male

The whole planet is sexually driven, from plants and upwards

Star & Flag issued