Are we technology…?

If your conjecture is based on a knowledge of humans on a biological, chemical, and physical level than you have to avoid separating us from other life.

In this theory I’ve explained that anything and everything physical in the universe and including the universe itself is artificial……animals of all kinds bacteria, plants etc, are all artificial creations, they all have a structure that is more advanced scientifically then the most sophisticated technology we are able to create….

Likewise, all life on earth is related and built of the same blocks. To say we are more than a product of our environment, a vehicle of some sort, begs the question why make a bunch of other stuff too? Sure some of it supports us, but of all the worlds biomass, we don't need it all.

?.......no my point is we are a product of our environment….and that’s what’s so weird about all this…..that nature can somehow without any intention , meaning, purpose, create us…..the genius that created our physical selves is nothing but a brainless evolution with no thought involved. To think that out of nothing but water and lightning could create us by chance, but we and the brilliant minds we are can’t even create DNA from scratch but nature can….? Sounds a bit dodgy……

Originally posted by andre18

....not a ‘god’ an all knowing all powerful figure, …..

Why not? All of the interesting observations made thus far in thread have pathways of practical origin: i.e. advanced life form creates human, human creates computer, computer becomes self-aware . . . the pathway of logic already established here indicates that a higher intelligence form exists above each life level, and eventually scaling the pyramid one reaches the top.

Religion has just basically crapped all over the truth of Spirit, essentially canceling out the Divine aspect of spiritual study while focusing on a concept commonly referred to as sin, making natural life functions of the human experience a crime, and an eternal blaze for the one who fails to follow the hundreds (if not thousands!) of not-God-given rules. Earlier in the thread a poster remarked that they would not mind purposeless bliss. I couldn't agree more.

Not to condone laziness or worthlessness, but simply that life is to be enjoyed as much as it can be enjoyed, that seems to be our deep purpose, to me. Fulfillment feelings are achieved by completion of life's tasks, emotional needs are fulfilled by healthy human relationships, and if one is inclined to spiritual things, holy books and other forms of study/meditation exist. What else really is there to do? Become a trillionaire? Die in poverty? What -- in either case -- is the difference one moment after your last breath? . .

If there truly is a God (and I believe strongly that such a vibration of Consciousness is behind all of this, yet I can give you not one torn shred of proof of this), He/She/It likely does not really need us to do one single thing, except be.

And have fun doing it!

andre18 i read here that we did make dna or some kind of life form from scratch recently, i will try to find it if i have the time, someone in the post said "ok now i'm scared because..." and posted the link to the article(sorry if this doesn't help)

we are old technology though if we are

which sadly raises more questions (like what do the current female prototypes look like )

[edit on 6-2-2008 by OSSkyWatcher]

Why not? All of the interesting observations made thus far in thread have pathways of practical origin: i.e. advanced life form creates human, human creates computer, computer becomes self-aware . . . the pathway of logic already established here indicates that a higher intelligence form exists above each life level, and eventually scaling the pyramid one reaches the top.

I do believe that there is a creator of this universe of some sort just not a god type creator…..such a creator is recognized as all knowing and all power…..when logic is used to understand these concepts….these ideas of such a creator fall apart….eg…. an all knowing god can see the past, present and future which means god can see it’s own future and in doing so is tied by fate / destiny where it can’t escape it’s own future as everything it does is already determined and so it has no free will of its own….and if it can’t control it’s own destiny, it’s not all powerful because there are things god can’t do……

This is just one of many paradoxes involved in the existence of a god of what ever religion you may or may not hold to……

A simple and more rational way of understanding the universe and how it works…..is realizing just as we create computers, machines – air and spacecraft, vehicles and buildings, we are just like those creations that we ourselves build…..but just more technologically advanced, such minds that would be able to build us from scratch would be millions of years ahead of us……such creators could be then said to be aliens, but then you have to ask who /what created them….? As well as asking if aliens created us, did they create the trillions of galaxies and planets and stars and the vastness of space throughout the universe…? And if they did, where did they come from if not from another planet….there would have to be a source of origin where they came from in the universe before they creating everything else…..

From my own theory, it is much easer to say the creators of this universe (which would make this universe artificial like us making a computer simulation) are as scientifically plausible as we are, they aren’t all knowing all powerful, but have created this universe as a method, a tool, for there own self-seeking purpose. If they were intent at any level at communicating to us they would have already, in which means they have no need to interface with their creation……Just as we don’t talk to our movies and games but we do view them and grow curious of them….Eg…you don’t know or want to know what’s happening in the movie until you’ve watched it, you don’t know how to play the game until you’ve learnt the rules……the creators of this universe I believe have no real desire to reveal themselves to us as they don’t find it necessary. They watch the universe by their own means and take interest in the scenario that unfolds…..

Eg….think of this universe as a movie and you’re the creator, you start it up, it begins, you watch the scenario as it plays out……you take interest in it…..you keep watching, if you don’t like the movie you stop it……if the creators find this universe lets say….’un-entertaining’ then they will destroy it….

The difference between this creator and the all knowing and all powerful god, is the creators exists outside of this universe but exists in a different form of energy…….as do atoms and light exist in different forms of energy – we are and planets and stars and bugs etc are one form of energy……atoms……the other form is light…..the creator also exists as energy but just in a different form……the god concept either says god is an invisible sky daddy that lives in heaven – a spiritual place no science or logic can prove or disprove…..it is just there…..created by a god that is also existent as an ‘entity’ no amount of science or logic can prove or disprove…….What would you rather believe in….? A god creator that makes no sense…..or a creator that exists just as we do as energy that can be scientifically proven.

Response: if it can be proven how come we can’t then prove it? If the creators wanted us to know they exist as they do, then we’d already know it, simply put they don’t want us to know they exist as it would stop the ‘movie’ from playing out the way they want it, they would have intervened and spoiled the scenario….and in which case they would destroy it….

I think I’ve trailed off a few times but I think I got the message across alright…..

Earlier in the thread a poster remarked that they would not mind purposeless bliss. I couldn't agree more.

They way I see it….even if we knew that truth…..it would make no real difference to our reality, to our lives as there’s literally nothing we can do about it anyway….Even if there was a god it would not make a difference either way….we exist now as we are……and I think there’s some truth in that….






[edit on 6-2-2008 by andre18]

Originally posted by andre18
I do believe that there is a creator of this universe of some sort just not a god type creator…..such a creator is recognized as all knowing and all power…..when logic is used to understand these concepts….these ideas of such a creator fall apart….eg…. an all knowing god can see the past, present and future which means god can see it’s own future and in doing so is tied by fate / destiny where it can’t escape it’s own future as everything it does is already determined and so it has no free will of its own….and if it can’t control it’s own destiny, it’s not all powerful because there are things god can’t do……
[edit on 6-2-2008 by andre18]

But, good sir, this assumes that the central Power known as God exists in some grand version of linear time, does it not? What if God actually exists outside the framework of time and space? In the OT book of Isaiah, if I remember the address correctly, the statement is made that not even the universe itself can contain God. Perhaps you have used sound logic in tracing the steps to what must be regarding the Supreme timeline, yet in attempting to understand Concepts which, by our means, cannot be understood, that otherwise correct logic cannot even be applied. Something like using simple mathematics to define a physics equation: can't be done, obviously...a broader toolset and a deeper level of inquiry/comprehension than previously used is required.

To be fair, I'm not the kind of spiritual person who just chalks every unexplainable up to, "only the good Lord knows why," yet, through a certain window we see that there really is no other way of looking at it (only "God" knows why), since -- if God exists -- it only stands to reason He/She/It would have all the answers. Remember, in the ascending development of civilization types, the Energy known as God represents the end-all to "what if" contemplation and experimentation.

How can someone know the result of the experiment prior to conducting the experiment? Well, what if that's the wrong question? What if, in the apparently inescapable duality of existence, God is "Knowing" and Creation is "Not Knowing"? So, in this instance, Creation -- the universe -- would be in an endless quest to advance to some unknowable new state, an "unpredictable" future, while the God half of Existence seeks to learn nothing . . there is nothing to learn . . only to impart proper knowledge/wisdom at proper intervals along the created timeline.

A thought.

One simplicity which consistently boggles me for moments at a time is the very fact that the universe is here means somebody, somewhere, somehow already knew how to build it. Not the thought itself but the simplicity of the answer that a Supreme Power exists someplace if I'm here and can't explain it (which alone is crazy, since quantum physics seem to suggest that no matter truly even exists -- hence, there is no actual "place" to exist). This represents to me an ultimate-level of intelligence, the knowing of all possible factors, the full and complete understanding of that which by the created cannot even be comprehended. . . no matter at what level of vibratory ascension, for in the pursuit of infinity the taking of a thousand steps is no greater an advance than the taking of one.

One simplicity which consistently boggles me for moments at a time is the very fact that the universe is here means somebody, somewhere, somehow already knew how to build it. Not the thought itself but the simplicity of the answer that a Supreme Power exists someplace if I'm here and can't explain it (which alone is crazy, since quantum physics seem to suggest that no matter truly even exists -- hence, there is no actual "place" to exist). This represents to me an ultimate-level of intelligence, the knowing of all possible factors, the full and complete understanding of that which by the created cannot even be comprehended. . . no matter at what level of vibratory ascension, for in the pursuit of infinity the taking of a thousand steps is no greater an advance than the taking of one.

Let’s say god is the creator of this universe and in which case the universe is artificial either way, you can give it all the supernatural abilities you wish, imperceptible, omnipresent, omniscient etc. this still means we are technology, this still means everything I’ve said regarding the universe is still basically true. Evolution though as well as the current age of the universe, sort of throws a spanner in the works as a god that can do absolutely anything (as apposed to a limited creator that is not all knowing and all powerful) then could simply create the universe with in seconds to where we are now, this is basically what the bible says, the earth was made in 6 days etc, but as we can clearly see the universe has been kicking for a very long time.

This poses the question as to why would an all powerful god take 13 billion years to create us as well as the rest of the entire universe just for us…? Where as my theory explains that our universe from the very beginning was intentionally created for the very purpose of fulfilling the creator’s desires, the very existence of ourselves is irrelevant to it as long as the ‘story’ of our universe continues to unfold unpredictably. (If the creator already knew the outcome of the end of the universe it wouldn’t be viewing it and we would not exist)

Another main difference between the two creators is god is all knowing and so knows our reality’s and its own reality’s past, present and future, my theory suggests the creator is only all knowing and all powerful of this reality that it can destroy our universal existence if it wants to, but is unable to be all knowing and all powerful of it’s own reality. Eg. You are able to play a computer game and know all the rules and all the options on how the game works, so you are ‘all knowing,’ you can turn off the game or computer and destroy / cancel the existence of the game but you don’t poses that sort of ability outside of the game. That is how I see the creator, all knowing and all powerful of this reality, but not of its own.

[edit on 6-2-2008 by andre18]

reply to post by andre18

Let’s say god is the creator of this universe and in which case the universe is artificial either way, you can give it all the supernatural abilities you wish, imperceptible, omnipresent, omniscient etc. this still means we are technology, this still means everything I’ve said regarding the universe is still basically true.

You and I appear to me to be on the same page, perhaps only differing on concepts of specifically Who/What, exactly, is running the show. If you ask me, I'd say definitely we are a form of technology, what else could anything inside of creation be? I've speculated in a thread before that we are likely the AI we are so intrigued to one day produce. Whatever the Creating Force actually is, it's safe from where I'm sitting to say that It is above, outside of, independent of the space/time continuum...It would have to be, or else how could It remain independent of the confining rules of the programming! Assuming that is true, for a moment, can we continue to discuss the past, present, and future of this Being? Those rules may not be applicable on an Ultimate Plane, or Creator would be subject the same degradation/disappearance as we mortals, as the mortal universe. If God got old and died, to what Heaven would He/She/It ascend?

Are we totally sure that this God force is actually on some highest level watching and wondering what's next 'down here' in the cosmos? No, really . . . are we totally sure of this? Because if we are, I now beg to review that information source because I have not been privy to it, yet. The reason I'm saying this is because unless we are just sure that such is the role of God -- to observe us all (grays, reptillians, Nordics, watchers, ghosts, galaxies, demons, angels, chupacabra, Thoth, Bush, Saturn, the Horsehead Nebula...everything!) as an experiment -- then to continue the work of decoding reality's lineage using mortal guidelines may simply be futile, rationally speaking.

When attempting to communicate my take on the Matrix-like state of reality with those who do not believe as I do, I use the video game analogy often, so I relate to what you're saying with that. Now imagine if said video game (our universe, in this case) was designed to where the characters in it would grow progressively more intelligent as the game's counter (time) ticked forward. Now let's say that some of the characters in this cosmic Sims actually become self-aware, and realize, "hey, this whole thing is not right!! Who are we? Where did we come from? What is the ultimate purpose? etc." They may put two-and-two together and realize that their reality is not eons old, even though all of their current reasoning and even the archeological evidence of their 'reality' suggests so. But that archeological evidence was written into the legacy aspect of the program, those trillions of years did not actually transpire. There are no actual fossils in this game, for example, as the game itself is not really eons old, only appears to be from within the game.

Take Star Wars. Lucas released that in the late 70's, yet the opening words inform that what we are about to partake of took place "a long time ago, in a galaxy far, far away." Yet, in our solid-world truth, that is not honestly the case, the movie is only about 30 years old, period. That's kinda how I perceive things, at least at this point in my mental/spiritual/psychological development. Without further information, "rational" thought doesn't even make this much sense. Maybe a new discovery will happen later today or next year to update my limited understanding, which would be welcomed.

As far as organized Matrix religion's stance on God? Well, I don't know exactly who God is, to be sure, but I have grown confident as to who God is not.

It is above, outside of, independent of the space/time continuum...It would have to be, or else how could It remain independent of the confining rules of the programming!

I would rather say it is independent of ‘our’ space/time continuum rather then its own…..where it is subjected to the reality of its own environment but it is not however affected by ours ….. If our universe was somehow destroyed because of something that happened within the confines of our universe, it wouldn’t affect the creator because it happened within our universe and not outside of it where the creator exists……. Eg…you watch a movie on your DVD player and it suddenly brakes, you aren’t affected by it braking but obviously the movie is…….

Can we continue to discuss the past, present, and future of this Being? Those rules may not be applicable on an Ultimate Plane, or Creator would be subject the same degradation/disappearance as we mortals, as the mortal universe. If God got old and died, to what Heaven would He/She/It ascend?

If the creator is just energy as we are but in a different form what ever that may be, it would not age at all but would be eternal as energy cannot be destroyed but only changes form for example when you turn a liquid into vapour the energy still exists – only the form of the energy is destroyed/changed…..and so a creator existing as a different form if energy to us, would continue to exist for ever and ever and would not have to change form like water turns into steam because it remains in the same basic form.

The only difference between us and the creator really, is we continuously keep changing form from one thing to another for example when our bodies die, the energy from our body becomes something else like the ground or the grass. That could be why we are put into coffins when we die because in the religious perspective, people don’t want the energy of our bodies to entwine with the earth, so I guess they thought if the body doesn’t decompose in the ground but is confined to a container such as a coffin, the bodies energy would remain in the coffin until god willingly sends the energy/soul to heaven or hell, remember it is said in the bible that god sends us to heaven or hell, god is the one who chooses not us.

And so the creator cannot die as it is just energy existing in the same form continuously for ever and ever…the only question I’d now be wondering is where does energy come from….? You answer that, you answer where the creator may come from…..

Then to continue the work of decoding reality's lineage using mortal guidelines may simply be futile, rationally speaking.

Yeah….but then what’s the difference between your creator theory and mine, either way if we ever find out the truth even if mainstream science comes to a logical conclusion that we are technology, it’s not going to change ourselves, we’re still going to exist as we are, we don’t have the ability to interact with the creator so even if we find out the truth or not either way it makes no real difference to us...The only difference I can see is that the conclusion of us being technology would makes us think completely differently about ourselves and the universe….morality would be very different for example….who cares if we kill one another if we’re just bits of code, just hardware, the significants of whether life is precious would be irrelevant.

They may put two-and-two together and realize that their reality is not eons old, even though all of their current reasoning and even the archaeological evidence of their 'reality' suggests so. But that archaeological evidence was written into the legacy aspect of the program, those trillions of years did not actually transpire. There are no actual fossils in this game, for example, as the game itself is not really eons old, only appears to be from within the game.

That’s a good point, but then why would the creator deliberately cause everything within the universe to appear so old, why confuse the inhabitancies…? Unless the purpose is something beneficial for the creators for example – causing us to be confused with the age of the universes and thus making us ignorant. If we can’t figure out the truth then there’s less chance of us stumbling onto what’s really going on and lets the scenario of the universe continue to unfold ‘naturally’ without us interfering. Eg….You’re watching a movie and suddenly the characters realize what’s going on and begin to question their reality which then stops the progression of the scenario in which spoils your interest in the movie….

reply to post by andre18

andre, you keep answering your own questions!
Exactly, with regard to the characters becoming suddenly self-aware in the movie, spoiling the whole thing for the viewer(s) . . . the created universe, in this case, has to maintain a sense of believability to the inhabitants of it, else the continuity of progression is interrupted, the same way (as mentioned previously) if they randomly become self-aware. For the most part (as is evident in life today) the majority of the characters are not going to 'wake up' and question reality's purpose, anyway, so the Game continues on smoothly. Inquisitors like us are basically ignored and called loony. And what you said is true, it won't change a single thing if we actually somehow prove that all is indeed technology, except maybe morality.

But morality is what sustains reality, is it not? I mean, how long would anything we know remain in existence if chaos -- not order -- was everyone's 24-hour pursuit? Morality is necessary, I think, for the Game to continue, and to produce any kind of valuable outcome or knowledge. Morality may very well be built into our programming, so that we typically gravitate towards the positive, at least in a neutral or positive setting. Usually when people say or do destructive things, it's because they have themselves been attacked on some level, and the word or deed is really a response (example: abused as a child: a jerk as an adult, that sort of thing). So, morality could be the Prime Directive of our instinctive selves, to preserve life and avoid death.

And the highest expression of morality is love. Maybe Supreme Consciousness has nothing else it requires but love. Is the entirety of the great Instruction Set simply a stage upon which countless expressions of love were meant to play out? Say you marry the girl of your dreams, and the two of you have your dream home built from the ground up. The construction company's entire purpose, at least as far as you are concerned, is to build that house for you and your new family-to-come. Now, checks were written, credit cards swiped, materials ordered, deliveries and pick-ups made, hammers driving nails for the better part of the day, lunches brought and bought, phone calls placed, emails sent, maybe on-site accidents . . . all sorts of activities transpiring furiously to accomplish the simple goal of providing the newlyweds a place to foster love. This may seem sappy, but the point is that with an Infinite Power under consideration, it seems difficult to force It into our finite line of thinking regarding practicality. True love, no matter what form of expression (family, platonic, etc.), is the one passionately desired aspect of the human experience which no amount of money in and of itself can provide. So while we place great value on this or that commodity, an infinite God likely couldn't care less what this is worth vs. that, no more than an onscreen object in Photoshop is any more valuable than its copy-and-paste clone.

Maybe this really is all about Relationship? . . .

So, morality could be the Prime Directive of our instinctive selves, to preserve life and avoid death.

I think agree with you mostly on this…….The morality of animals is also quite Surprising, I remember reading about an experiment where there were two cages,
each containing a rat (rat A and rat B) …..When rat A would eat, rat B would get got shocked, after a while rat A started to figure out what was going on and stopped eating so rat B would not get shocked, rat A eventually starved to death. The scientists were amazed of the morality rats seemed to poses and shows sort of how much more morality that have then we do is some cases….

And the highest expression of morality is love.

With regards to the above….I would have to say selflessness through self sacrifice is most dominant form of morality. To care for someone else more then yourself is probably the most moral form of emotional expression there is…..

But to think that any morality we possess, any level of emotions we expect to be the core of our feelings is just a machine, a programmed system…..if that’s the case then what are real emotions..? Are the feelings and sensations we assume to be real just watered down copies of an original ‘living’ thing, to then imagine what true emotions must be compared to us as the copy……

I wonder if what we would normally assume to be robots (eg: AI) would go through the same cycle of wondering what we have given them to simulate our experiences of emotions to be…..are their emotions as real as ours…? But then what defines emotions if what they feel is a copy is of what we feel is a copy is of what possibly the creator feels is the real thing……?

[edit on 7-2-2008 by andre18]

(Random theological comments in the next couple lines...)
"remember it is said in the bible that god sends us to heaven or hell," ... Actually... I think we might just have a very different wording in "the Bible".
" god is the one who chooses not us." -- but that is definitely true.
(/random theological comments)

"But to think that any morality we possess, any level of emotions we expect to be the core of our feelings is just a machine, a programmed system…..if that’s
the case then what are real emotions..?"
That's a good question... what _is_ emotion, anyway? Haven't we linked many emotions with like, chemicals and stuff? (And yet we still can't figure them out completely--so complicated!).
" Are the feelings and sensations we assume to be real just watered down copies of an original ‘living’ thing, to
then imagine what true emotions must be compared to us as the copy……"

I like to program games. The hardest part (well, other than good graphics... XD) tends to have something to do with characters.
Some times I've used a rather simplified system with regards to intelligences... sometimes a linear range of emotions (positive/negative), sometimes the game doesn't really care about emotions or relationships (fighters, for instance), and then we have more complicated things that I still can't finish... Needless to say, it's a mess.
I also like to write (opportunity for a shameless plug?... tempting...). Dealing with characters, especially when they're going through things you've never quite experienced... that's challenging.
But the game characters never really acknowledge me (short of responding to what I do when entering commands), and none of the characters I write about have really stopped to think that they're in a book (Well, in a parody once...).
What does all of that mean?

Could, then, the universe be a big divine video game? Certainly...
But then, something above and beyond our universe... where did it come from? The concept of a being having ultimate power here just falls apart if we put it in this context. It seems to me that there are three choices: infinity, a source for cause and effect, or a combination of the two. And I'm pretty well convinced that even if there is infinity, it had to come from somewhere... though then there's the question of what is physical (I'm tempted to start making up terms again. I like the sound of "physicality"...).

But... are we technology? I recall technology being described as the application of science for a (practical?) purpose...
So, are we the application of science for a (possibly practical) purpose? I don't see why not! Even from a purely earth-bound standpoint, arguments for such exist (I don't feel like elaborating on them at the present, though. ).

reply to post by cajones


You should check this out.....a very interesting theory on the universe

The Electric Universe Pt.1/12



Wallace Thornhill is an Australian physicist. His lifelong investigation of "The Electric Universe" offers a revolutionary view of solar system history, the nature of the Sun, the behavior of comets, and stellar and galactic evolution.

David Talbott is a comparative mythologist whose work offers a radical new vantage point on the origin of ancient cultural themes and symbols. His research has been the primary catalyst behind the "Saturn Model," and is the subject of the feature documentary, "Remembering the End of the World."

The two discussed the nature of the electric universe and its effect on comets and planets. The recent discharging of Comet Holmes, in which it became one million times brighter, is evidence of electric phenomena— the theory of an icy comet evaporating in the sun's path doesn't fit this model, said Thornhill.

The ancients bore witness to dramatic events in the sky, stated Talbott-- the sphere of Venus radiated with plasma discharge filaments that engaged with Mars in various ways. During this period, Mars was closer to Earth and took up a 20 degree arc in the sky, such that the balance of night and daytime was altered, he said, adding that ancients such as the Egyptians depicted this event with imagery like the cosmic serpent.

Thornhill suggested that the planet Saturn was actually a captured brown dwarf star and that at one time Earth was in its cometary sheath. He's also been able to make correct predictions based on the electrical model, including identifying Titan's atmosphere and noting there would be a flash before the main flash in Deep Impact's interaction with comet Tempel 1.



[edit on 7-2-2008 by andre18]