Fatima UFO coverup... proof that aliens are associated with religion

I suggest you look in the mirror easynow and see who's looking back because if anyone here is being biased.. it's YOU!

I'm very open-minded and I'm curious why you targeted me instead of Danx because unlike him, I never said that there is no connections to religion and some UFO cases ... like this one. Could be because I'm an easier target as I'm not quite as good a debater as Danx is.

But will post my information on this later. Do we have any Pagans here? I think they could contribute to this conversation immensely.


[edit on 1-2-2008 by Palasheea]

reply to post by Palasheea


now you are putting words in my mouth

i never said aliens were associated with the Catholic religion.

and no i dont think Catholics are aliens...stop spreading disinfo please

yes i believe there are some aliens that are associated with Lucifer/Satan and no i dont have a certified letter from an alien stating this so dont say prove it. it is my opinion based on abductions and hybrid experiments of the greys.

I'm not disagreeing with you entirely on what you are saying here. Just out the door but will post some of my idea's on this later ok?

We really need to be more open-minded now and discuss some alternative theories on this topic. In my view, they are worth exploring and even though you've already found your truth, I'm still searching for it.

reply to post by Palasheea


i did not target you at all....

i only replied to what you were writing about me or my beliefs/opinions

we all have a biased opinion in this matter if you ask me.

danx has a good counter argument i admit , but because he doesnt believe in God or religion (i am assuming this from past conversations with him ) it is not easy for me to value his interpretations of this event.

most of the information on the web about this event is related to the Catholic Church

they took control of this story and all the evidence that we seek.

Originally posted by Palasheea
I'm not disagreeing with you entirely on what you are saying here. Just out the door but will post some of my idea's on this later ok?

We really need to be more open-minded now and discuss some alternative theories on this topic. In my view, they are worth exploring and even though you've already found your truth, I'm still searching for it.

here is an alternative theory i found that you might like ?

www.ovnis.atfreeweb.com...
The Fatima visions: Miracle or Religious and Military Manipulation?

The fact that these phenomena of an electromagnetic origin were produced several times "on command", at the hour and on the day previously announced, leads one to think that their source was artificial. The Croatian Physicist Nikola Tesla, who had emigrated to the United States in 1884, had put forward the principle of radar as early as 1900 and the first prototype, called a telemobiloscope, was made in 1904 with the purpose of preventing collisions between ships. Waves were emitted at a frequency of 650 MHz and could carry for more than 6 kilometres. It is likely that the American military had noticed soon enough that radar emissions were capable, at certain frequencies, of provoking unexpected sensations in a subject exposed to them. On the other hand, one may suppose that the European armed forces were too busy with the 1914-18 War to indulge in this Machiavellian intrigue at Fatima, and that it was rather the American military (who entered the war against Germany on the 2nd April 1917) who were behind it, following on from the sightings of 1896-7 and in concert with the conservative forces in Portugal who were struggling against the emergence of a violently anticlerical republic.

this article talks about the possible military involvement of the Fatima event........... wich would tie into the Project Blue Beam idea to fake an alien invasion to usher in the new world order and rationalize weapons in space.

en.wikipedia.org...
Project Blue Beam - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

www.youtube.com...
YouTube - Carol Rosin - Disclosure Project



i would also add this article about the book Celestrial Secrets.

english.ohmynews.com...
The Secrets of Fatima - OhmyNews International

The weakness of the book is that the authors do not consider that their own ufological context and re-examination of the case is as proscriptive as that of the Jesuits'.

Instead of considering the psychological factors that conditioned the children and Lucia in adulthood, they prefer to speculate that there was an Operation Fatima by intelligences using spacecraft and holographic projectors. They say, "Through illusions and projections, mostly hidden within the full amplitude of the electromagnetic spectrum -- they appear to be able to control us -- and through us, our systems of belief."

this article also says that the Popes second in command has declared the interpretation of the third secret "pure fantasy"

In response to the continuing interest in the "third secret" given to the three shepherd children, which is rumored to have predicted the end of the Catholic church and/or the world, the Vatican's secretary of state, Cardinal Tarcisio Bertone -- the Pope's second-in-command -- has declared that it is "pure fantasy."

[edit on 1-2-2008 by easynow]

Interesting one about military involvement. I've never heard of that one before and will research it more.

Presently, I'm more interested in zooming in on the history of Fatima -- the town. Apparently it's historically a real hot spot for apparitions of mysterious lady's and other strange phenomena -- and this goes back to the pre-Christian era.

I will type out some of that information later but I DO think this angle is worth looking into.

I don't think that the military possibility is a strong one, Portugal did not had the type of connection to the US as it had some years after, and, as posted from that other site, the US entered WWI in April 1917, so they were occupied with a war at the time of the apparitions.

The history (and geology, that area has many natural caves and is mostly limestone) are always interesting subjects when we want to know about the place, not only about the events.

As usual, I will help in anything that I can, especially translations, I am getting used to it.

PS: in case anyone wants to know, and to make things clear, I am an atheist.

By the way, here's Jim Marr's last few paragraph's in the Foreward he wrote for "Celestial Secrets: The Hidden History of the Fatima Incident".

I think he brings up a few valid questions we should all be asking about this case including his opinion of this book....

Was the being of light the Virgin Mary as advocated by the Church?

Or was she an alien being, from another planet, offering a message of peace?

Or could the apparitions resulted from Satan attempting to confuse an already war weary world public, as has been suggested by some?

Or was she perhaps from another dimension or time?

There has been a growing consensus among UFO researchers that the topic involves much more than simple flying machines from outer space.

Sightings, contacts, and abductions seem to be interconnected, and involve matters previously thought to be the province of anthropology, parapsychology, and even religion. For many, this is a troubling thought.

So, the struggle between science and religion, belief and skepticism, has continued unabated into the 21st century, with neither side conceding defeat.

Meanwhile, the vast majority of people in the world who have heard of the Fatima Incident of 1917 remain blissfully ignorant of the true facts of this signal case in the field of Ufology.

This book however may change all that. In Celestial Secrets..., the hidden history of Fatima becomes a lot less hidden.

For the true believer and the skeptic alike -- Celestial Secrets provides the BEST researched, the most DETAILED, and the most COMPREHENSIVE look at the Fatima apparitions EVER PUBLISHED.

The reader will learn how the Society of Jesus suppressed the TRUE facts of Fatima; how the Jesuits portrayed the "pretty little lady" described by the young shepherds as the Virgin Mary; and how they manipulated the testimony of direct participants to support their suppositions. FATIMA, IT SEEMS, WAS AN EARLY EPISODE IN THE COSMIC WATERGATE.

... On its pages, the enduring mystery of Fatima continues to captivate us not because its explanation is easy and lies in the Scriptures, but because its explanation is difficult and lies in the stars.

here is another theory that in my opinion ties ufo/aliens to religion:

the flipside to the Marian Apparitions is ( and alot of people believe this ) that they are being presented to us to decieve us and distort the true path to God thru Jesus.

soulrefuge.wordpress.com...
MARIAN APPARITIONS: DIVINE OR DEMONIC? « SOULREFUGE


heartofflesh.wordpress.com...
Apparitions of Mary deceiving many « Heart of Flesh

www.youtube.com...
YouTube - Understand The Times - Fatima Gospel

The Bible teaches us that Jesus has already made all the reparations necessary; that we are reborn when we place our trust in Him and Him alone, and that...

"I am the way, the truth, and the life: no man cometh unto the Father, but by me." [John 14:16]

The Bible warns us repeatedly that we will see strange sights in the heavens, false prophets, counterfeit miracles, and that "even the very elect might be deceived." Jesus Christ is the only Savior. The Lord Jesus died for the sins of man, as the only acceptable sacrifice. According to Marian apparitions, the Blessed Virgin Mary is the bridge between God and man. This is "another gospel" of which we are warned in the Scriptures.

www.jeremiahproject.com...
Visions of the Blessed Virgin Mary



the Mary apparitions could be used to unite the world under one religion,

Benedict XVI invited “men of every nation and culture” to welcome “this message of light and hope”: “They receive it from the hands of Mary, Mother of all humanity.”

endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com...
Pope presents Mary as the road to peace « End Times Prophetic, Prophecy, Visions, Dreams, Revelation, Christian Blog


Jesus and Mary are in the Koran and there was a Marian apparition in Egypt


www.youtube.com...
YouTube - Apparitions of Saint Mary in Egypt

A number of articles are beginning to appear on the Internet suggesting that the current Islamic-Pope Benedict controversy may soon be resolved by a coming peace plan that will be initiated by the Roman Catholic Mary – the Queen of Peace. This plan would be mutually agreeable to Rome and Islam.

this article shows a possible peace plan initiatiated by Mary.

endtimespropheticwords.wordpress.com...
Islam and Mary, Queen of Heaven - the new ecumenicism « End Times Prophetic, Prophecy, Visions, Dreams, Revelation, Christian Blog










what surprised me was this message from Mary about ufo"s

These objects that take flight across your earth are from hell.

www.tldm.org...
UFOs: Part of the great end-times deception…

Satan-Prince of the Powers of the Air, Master of those that Fly, the evil Intelligence behind UFO manifestations and alien encounters.

"[The occultist] is brought into intelligent communication with the spirits of the air, and can receive any knowledge which they possess, or any false impression they choose to impart ... the demons seem permitted to do various wonders at their request." — G.H. Pember, "Earth's Earliest Ages and Their Connection with Modern Spiritualism and Theosophy". (1876)

www.returnofthenephilim.com...
R.o.t.N. - UFOs and Aliens, and the Antichrist. The Antediluvian Angelic Conspiracy and the End Times Deception





so now we have the Mary Apparitions wich could be a deception to unite the world under one religion and bring about the New World Order. and then we have the alien deception to decieve us into believing in a false Messiah

askrealjesus.com...
Real Jesus,

Lord Sananda is the Eternal Divine Son of Mother/Father Creator Source appointed to bring “Christ Consciousness” or Sonship” to the Children of God here on Earth. Known as Jesus the Christ during his mission 2000 years ago, He is known as Sananda in the Higher Dimensions and those of the Ashtar Command.

this sananda is the alien antichrist imho and is part of the ashtar galactic command

en.wikipedia.org...
Ashtar Galactic Command - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia


www.star-esseenia.org...
About Sananda

www.youtube.com...
YouTube - Ashtar the Prince of Hell



www.sherryshriner.com...
Sananda - Bible Code - False Messiah - False Jesus

www.mt.net...
End Time Delusion - Antichrist and Aliens Matt 24:24 False Christs UFOs and the Bible UFO Alien Satan Demon Antichrist Nephilim Noah







then this alien jesus shows up and is obviuosly the antichrist wich is all part of the end times delusion.






www.youtube.com...
YouTube - UFO - The end time deception 8

www.youtube.com...
YouTube - UFO - The end time deception 9 - The End


so this is another theory about the Mary Apparitions being part of the end times delusion.









[edit on 1-2-2008 by easynow]

Originally posted by ArMaP
I don't think that the military possibility is a strong one, Portugal did not had the type of connection to the US as it had some years after, and, as posted from that other site, the US entered WWI in April 1917, so they were occupied with a war at the time of the apparitions.

The history (and geology, that area has many natural caves and is mostly limestone) are always interesting subjects when we want to know about the place, not only about the events.

As usual, I will help in anything that I can, especially translations, I am getting used to it.

PS: in case anyone wants to know, and to make things clear, I am an atheist.

[edit on 2-2-2008 by Palasheea]

easynow,

I find it rather interesting that all of those end time tele-evangelists.. and you can go right down the list of those most well-known ones... they all have their dramatic stories of personally seeing visions of Jesus or hearing Jesus' voice speak to them, or seeing a bright flash of light that they interpret as some kind of sign from the heavens and list goes on and on. They never fail to mention those extraordinary experiences of theirs of these types in their television programs when they are up there on stage.

But Lord forbid if it's a Catholic or anyone that's not one of them who's seeing an apparition of the holy family including Mary or getting messages from the Lord and so on... in that case, those same evangelists will tell you without hesitation that it's THE DEVIL.

So what they are telling everybody is.... with very few exceptions (i.e. a layperson in their church), only they themselves are privileged enough to have such religious experiences because they are self-proclaimed leaders and messengers of the Lord. They are SPECIAL and they tell everybody about their exceptional experiences just to make sure everybody else knows that too.

Of course the Catholics do the same thing. If the witness is not a devout, practicing Catholic then he or she doesn't have a prayer as far as their Bishop saying that the apparition is from God. And like those tele-evangelists, they will say that it's from Satan.

But as far as UFOs go, the Vatican seems to be indicating that they know they exist where they are not saying that they are from Satan.

But as far as I know, non-denominational evangelists believe that UFOs ARE from Satan. And I would think that because there are so many UFO sightings now, I can see why they think the end is near. The same goes for Marian apparitions, because there have been so many cases of Marian related miracles i.e. weeping statues and icons... over the past couple of decades... this too is a sign for them that the end is near. The Fatima Event for them is a real smorgasbord showing the Devil in both forms -- the BVM AND UFOs. Whew! -- they must be having a lot of fun with that one. Lol...

Lol, I know you know all of this -- just yapping away... sorry


[edit on 2-2-2008 by Palasheea]

reply to post by Palasheea


hi again Palasheea,

it does seem to be true that most other forms of Christianity do not endorse or agree with the Catholic Church"s adoption of the Mary apparitions.

i have to admit it is a little confusing for me also because Jesus said the only way to heaven was through him ..so the BVM apparitions somtimes contradict the message from Jesus.

many of these apparitions are associated with UFO phenomena which I also believe to be demonic manifestations

To associate these false apparitional tricksters with UFO sightings makes my case that both manifestations are demonic delusions to lead people from the truth.

www.ufodigest.com...
Many Apparitions of Mary may be Tricksters but the Real Mary was not!






i found an interesting article you might like ...discussing this... but it is a Christian website fyi

Some evangelicals claim that the apparitions at Fatima were all about Mary worship.

The Evangelical healing minister Benny Hinn endorsed the divine healing power of the Marian shrines at Lourdes and Fatima on national TV.

www.davidmacd.com...
Mary Apparitions





i was also wondering how many of these Mary appearences there were and there seems to 40 recognized by the Catholic Church but there is alot more than that. this article has a list of some towards the bottom of the page wich i found very interesting.


campus.udayton.edu...
Marian Apparitions of the 20th Century







also wanted you to be aware of this website claiming Lucia"s handwriting was faked...didnt know if you knew about this or not

www.tldm.org...
Sister Lucy's forged handwriting













[edit on 2-2-2008 by easynow]

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by Palasheea

 

hi again Palasheea,

it does seem to be true that most other forms of Christianity do not endorse or agree with the Catholic Church"s adoption of the Mary apparitions.

Lol, that's not saying much because the majority of Christians throughout the world are Catholic and you better believe it that they are believers of these Marian appartions!



[edit on 3-2-2008 by Palasheea]

Originally posted by Palasheea

Originally posted by easynow
reply to post by Palasheea

 

hi again Palasheea,

it does seem to be true that most other forms of Christianity do not endorse or agree with the Catholic Church"s adoption of the Mary apparitions.

Lol, that's not saying much because the overwhelming majority of Christians throughout the world are Catholic and you better believe it that they are believers of these Marian appartions!

[edit on 2-2-2008 by Palasheea]

i already know that most catholics believe

i said other forms of Christianity dont believe

lol, thats not saying much

what do you mean thats not saying much ?...huh ?

so i dont understand your point...''




[edit on 2-2-2008 by easynow]

Oh, so you're not Catholic?

Lol, I kinda figured that.

reply to post by Palasheea



en.wikipedia.org...
Christianity - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

FYI....2.1 billion Christians and 1.2 billion are Catholic

so i dont see how you could say thats not much..... ''

Oh, so you're not Catholic?
Lol, I kinda figured that.

i was raised Catholic .....even went to Catholic school in New York







[edit on 2-2-2008 by easynow]

You're not Catholic.

This is very clear to me now.

The UFO phenomenon started receiving world wide attention in the 50's and has been increasing ever since. The miracle of the sun occurred in 1917. Therefore, many people would have still been alive out of the 70,000 original witnesses. It would seem many witnesses would have been aware of the "silver discs" and "flying saucers" descriptions of UFOs circulating even if they were only simple country folks.

So, my question is how long ago did people start speculating the miracle of the sun and a silver disc was actually a UFO? Recently? Decades ago and we are only now hearing about it? Did any of the original eye witnesses ever make the connection of it possibly being a UFO? That would be important.

I have a hard time swallowing the "Virgin Apparition" phenomenon so I don't care either way but this makes me wonder.

Originally posted by Palasheea



You're not Catholic.
This is very clear to me now.

tell me why you think this ?

i dont practice the Catholic Faith like i did in the past.

but i am still a Christian

Originally posted by AshleyD
The UFO phenomenon started receiving world wide attention in the 50's and has been increasing ever since. The miracle of the sun occurred in 1917. Therefore, many people would have still been alive out of the 70,000 original witnesses. It would seem many witnesses would have been aware of the "silver discs" and "flying saucers" descriptions of UFOs circulating even if they were only simple country folks.

So, my question is how long ago did people start speculating the miracle of the sun and a silver disc was actually a UFO? Recently? Decades ago and we are only now hearing about it? Did any of the original eye witnesses ever make the connection of it possibly being a UFO? That would be important.

I have a hard time swallowing the "Virgin Apparition" phenomenon so I don't care either way but this makes me wonder.

thanks for your post AshleyD

The UFO phenomenon started receiving world wide attention in the 50's and has been increasing ever since. The miracle of the sun occurred in 1917.

So, my question is how long ago did people start speculating the miracle of the sun and a silver disc was actually a UFO? Recently?

in my opinion i would have to believe that since this was before ufo"s and flying saucers were common knowledge that they might not have known what they were seeing

as you said Fatima event was in 1917 and ufo"s didnt start recieving attention till the 50"s

the term " ufo" and "flying saucer" i believe were invented in the 50"s and 60"s ?

but yes there were reports of a silver disc sighted at the event.

According to many witness statements, after a downfall of rain, the clouds broke and the sun appeared as an opaque, spinning disk in the sky

"The sun's disc did not remain immobile.

en.wikipedia.org...
The Miracle of the Sun - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia







i dont think any witnesses are alive today

so, my question is how long ago did people start speculating the miracle of the sun and the silver disc were actually a ufo ? recently ?

that is a great question and i hope to find out ...maybe someone can help me with this question ?...

Palasheea ....do you know ?.....lol











[edit on 2-2-2008 by easynow]

[edit on 2-2-2008 by easynow]