Startup Says It Can Make Ethanol for $1 a Gallon, and Without Corn

This sounds too good to be true. I think we had better get some secondary sources on this before we get too crazy.

I just did a quick search on using bacteria to convert organic material to biodiesel and didn't find much, though I do recall reading something about it a while ago. What about this claim that ethanol produces 84% less CO2? Is that right?

May Wu, an environmental scientist at Argonne National Laboratory, says Coskata's ethanol produces 84 percent less greenhouse gas than fossil fuel even after accounting for the energy needed to produce and transport the feedstock.

I would really like to see the information to back up this claim.

Originally posted by Critical_Mass
We need to find a way to produce OUR OWN fuel and blatantly defy the government in masse. Only then will we be successful and crush these oil companies.

google search "appleseed processor"

Sri Oracle

On sept 10 2001 gasoline was leaving the refinery in north dakota at 80 cents per gallon. So at 1 dollar it is very competitive with todays gas prices. Transportation cost may kill it.

I had a '94 Ranger that was recently sold to a relative. I used to run the truck on straight acetone. Ran better than on premium gas, ran cooler, and the fuel was a drop-in, no modifications needed. When you stepped on the pedal it just flat got it, for a little 4-banger. Its still going, so those "it'll wreck your fuel system stories" are just a bunch of bunk.

Acetone is made from a bacterial fermentation process, just like ethanol, and also by altering isopropyl alcohol.

Why are we wasting time on ethanol and all those crazy fuel system mods needed to use it, when the drop in for gasoline is already here?

I have figured out a way to make Ethanol for $1 a gallon too. Oh crap- wait a second- I calculated my costs using last weeks dollars- one second *scibble scribble* hmmm- Looks like adjusting for this weeks inflation it would cost $3.72 per gallon- nevermind.

reply to post by Oldtimer2

I wonder what long term effect it would have on a gasoline motor,I'm thinking it may tend to cause major problems,I'm thinking best bet would be converted diesel motor

The "ethanol causes problems to your engine" meme is a powerful and prolific one but it just doesn't stand up in practice. Driving dual fuel ethanol and Liquid Petroleum Gas, many 1000s of kilometres a month. There is something of a different maintainence regime in that you must keep a close eye on the cooling system (condition of radiator and connections) As far as engine wear goes, I would say ethanol causes slightly less engine wear than unleaded petrol, i.e. it is cheaper to maintain and service a car running on ethanol. This idea that ethanol didn't like your engine I have hardly heard for a long time.

Of course you can make ethanol without corn and for far cheaper... firgure in order to turn corn into ethanol you first have to convert the starch in corn into sugar and that is an expensive, and inefficent process...The Brazilians use sugar cane and skip that step all together and get a higher quality bang for the buck as well. On top of that converting bio mass to ethanol is even more efficent and effective.

Leave it to corporate America to embrace the least efficent and most wasteful way to do it.

The Oct. 07 National geographic has an extensive article on the subject that is quite interesting.

That's great news. I'm so glad more and more people have become interested in using organic matter as fuel for their machines. Water can be used as fuel.

Why is everyone talking on this thread about how its cheaper or.. how it works out roughly the same in MPG etc...

i would gladly pay the SAME price as gasoline, hell i would gladly pay a bit more if it meant the HUMAN cost of oil dropped dramatically.

Maybe then we can stop invading countries over rapidly diminishing resources world wide.

And i use a lot of Gas

I hate to be the bearer of bad news but this will be squashed. the government doesnt want to get off the oil based titty because right now the arabs are putting a lot of money in all the right places to make sure it doesnt happen. Think about this we have the ability for hydrogen cars and can impliment it right now. Why isnt it being done you ask? They are not sure how to profit on it yet. its all about money and as long as prince mustaffa is pouring money into the government and the elites coffers you and I will be paying for it.

Ethanol isn't as "efficiant" as regular gasoline:

It burns twice as fast. So if we're going to convert to Ethanol as a standard fuel source, we'd better re-evaluate the mileage of a gasoline combustion engine running on an ethanol running gasoline internal combustion engine.

I think you'll find that it's not so cost effective after all.

mustangforums.com...

reply to post by Quantum_Squirrel


Yes! The Human cost of high petroleum dependence.
Also, as an American, I must factor the cost of Iraq invasion into every gallon I use.

I rather like this technology. Could also help decrease need for more landfills.

while I do agree that we need an alternative to fossil fuel.
I still think we're barking up the wrong tree with ethanol.

Ther are vehicles out there that run on

1) compressed air - free
2) water (HHO gas, hydrogen) - free
3) magnet engine - free
4) solar - free

there are at least 4 kinds of free energy available
to run vehicles. That means you never have to pay
for a fill-up.

If the car companies want to really help me,
let them make a car that runs off
one of these type fuels and mass produce it.
They'd sell millions of them. I myself would buy 1
for me and 1 for my wife.

Prolly won't never happen in my lifetime
cuz uncle sam can't make a buck off of it.

geez, quit trying to make a buck off the consumer
there's free energy out there and it's NOT 10 years away.
It's here NOW !!! They just turn a blind eye.


[edit on 27-1-2008 by SimonSays]

[edit on 27-1-2008 by SimonSays]

Originally posted by SimonSays

Ther are vehicles out there that run on

1) compressed air - free
2) water (HHO gas, hydrogen) - free
3) magnet engine - free
4) solar - free

1) It takes energy to compress the air.
2) It takes energy to split the hydrogen and oxygen.
3) A lot of controversy here, but I personally think it might can be made to work.
4) Not been looked at near enough, but should be. (Best bet)

The biggest problem with using ethanol in an engine is that some of the older engines had a problem with the materials that were used in the fuel pumps, the ethanol would dissolve the material.

Ethanol fueled engines do not get the same fuel mileage as gasoline because the engines are optimized for gasoline not ethanol. Ethanol fueled engines would run more efficient at higher compression ratios, but that would create problems if gasoline was used as a fuel.

Is there any word on the whole process?

Traditional conversion of woody substances requires a breakdown with very strong acids. Not such a good thing but effective. To do this without the pretreating may require a biologically engineered bacteria. That would be the question. What is the start to finish process. Something like that spilled into the outside could eat whole ecosystems out of existence.

In them ol hills, they ran the dirt roads at 165 proof and higher. The amount of water has no effect on the motor but allows the fuel to burn longer. You can run on just alcohol and it doesn't have to be 100% pure the way it does when you mix it with gas for gasahol. Its a much faster and better process. Look at the Nazis in the last of WWII. all alcohol and nowhere near pure. The issue is that once converted to water laden alcohol you can never add gas again. Th fuel system has to be completely drained before starting with alcohol and drained again fully before using gas. Water laden alcohol is a lot easier on the fuel pumps etc. too.

Least thats what them good ol boys tole me.

Go Hydrogen. The word is that H2 is too costly to extract is a result of A: corporate greed or B: govt. interference. There was a story out last week about a researcher splitting the H2O molecule with radio freq's. I'm not a scientist, but I do believe in America as a people. WE are the smartest, strongest, richest nation to ever exist on this planet. If the govt. would put half the resources into R&D for H2 fuel developement as they do lying and fighting ill advised wars, the whole planet would be better off and we could all tell the oil extortionists to pound sand. Stop fighting wars that benefit the flow of oil for Europe (we get almost all of our oil from THIS hemisphere) and get the American govt. to use the power we only LEND to them with the ballot, to do our bidding.

reply to post by LAUGHING-CAT


Unfortunately the "oil extortionists" have mucho power over the government. Talk about lobbyists with $$$$!

We can complain till the cows come home but until we stop buying oil dependent machines nothing will change. Admittedly most of us are very or at least somewhat dependent on oil burners such as automobiles, oil furnaces, and a whole lot of machinery that either runs on gas and/or oil.

Did anyone see that announcement today about the buyouts of the union auto workers? Just about every car company is doing these buyouts. This is so they can hire nonunion at a fraction of the wages and continue on making gasoline engine automobiles rather than take the sign of the times and retool for the future.

For those of you that have yet to see "Who Killed the Electric Car", do yourself a favor and go to the link and watch. You will be amazed, outraged, mortified and probably yell a few expletives as well. It is a bit long but well worth it, I guarantee you will be glad you watched it (available in both RP and WMP):

www.pbs.org...

On Edit: Sorry guys, only clips are available from PBS but I'm sure it's out there somewhere to watch. I'll hunt it down and post it tomorrow. I also requested that it be added as premium video content and maybe something can be worked out with that. I just got a little excited and didn't look well enough over there. Again my apologies.

[edit on 29-1-2008 by jbondo]

Speaking of hydrogen, apparently I'm not the only one who look forward to the age of hydrogen.

Officials Look Forward to Era of Hydrogen-Powered Vehicles

The ministerial meeting will culminate with the signing of a charter pledging each member nation's commitment to the ultimate goal of IPHE -- which is to give consumers around the world, within the next two decades, the option of purchasing competitively priced, hydrogen-powered vehicles that can be refueled near their homes and workplaces.

And you know what, there is a way to 'convert' ethanol to hydrogen.

Direct-ethanol fuel cell

Cutting Edge Technology: Electricity From Sugar Cane Using Fuel Cell Technology

The ethanol-based fuel cell system is one of a number of solutions for production of clean electricity using Intelligent Energy's proprietary MesoChannel(TM) Fuel Processor and Fuel Cell System. These solutions convert various fuels into hydrogen, from which electricity is produced. The fuels which may be used include light and heavy hydrocarbons (natural gas through to diesel), renewable fuels (such as ethanol, soy diesel and others) and decarbonized fuels (such as ammonia).

Before long, they'll be able to fire up these puppies.


GM skateboard platform



Ford Hyseries Drive

Originally posted by jbondoWe can complain till the cows come home but until we stop buying oil dependent machines nothing will change.

That is exactly what I'm trying to do.
there was an auto technician in an adjacent town
where I live that was turning vehicles into machines
that didn't need gasoline. About 2 months later,
the feds came in and shut his small garage down.
I don't know what happened to him and I doubt
I'll ever know as it wasn't covered in the newspaper.

But had I known about him while he was still operating
I would have let me modify my vehicle so I wouldn't
need petrol.

This is the kind of stuff the average consumer will face
when trying to pull the oil needle out of one's arm.

But I'm still looking for a mechanic/engineer who will
modify my vehicle so I don't have to burn gasoline.

Anybody know of one who hasn't go busted yet ??
I'd like his phone number as I want to give him some
business

The I can tell the Saudi's to keep their damm oil
and tell the gubment that I'm not gonna pay their
gas tax either. Cuz every gallon of gas sold in America
has a gas tax added to it at the pump to pay Uncle Sam.
How many people know that ???

reply to post by SimonSays


The only conversion I know of that can be done quickly and cheaply is LP Gas. There are many garages offering conversion for less than $300 US.

As for the film I promised, it seems the only copy that I could find was removed by Google.

My apologies....

Here is a good link to educate on our wonderful car and oil companies:

www.ev1.org...

[edit on 30-1-2008 by jbondo]