Most Americans Believe In Creation

k i didnt reed the 7 pages so if thi was alredy sed im sorry .


u say christians dont try and push their beliefs on other ur right they try and force them like in the inquisition

reply to post by shadowjester


Uh oh. Our cover is blown and it took someone on ATS to expose the conspiracy. It's true the unexplained disappearances around the globe aren't due to unsolved murders or alien abductions. They're caused by Christians taking people out of their homes in the middle of the night and burning them at the stake by the droves. Maybe ATS will take down the UFO forum now that this mystery has been solved.

I don't have a problem with people believing what they want to believe, but I do have a problem when US citizen taxes are used to fund Faith Based Church groups, Bible studies in our public schools and when the leader of the free world, Mr. Bush starts using his chats with his god to determine US policy, economic strategies or diplomatic game plans.

I'm not religious. I've raised my children to believe in science and the scientific method, so they're atheists just like my wife and I. We're interested in science, peace and the preservation of the human race... these don't seem to be top priorities for conservative fundimentalists. Relgious people seem more interested in figuring out who to hate and they're more concerned with getting converts than they are with creating peace and prosperity for humanity.

If mankind lasts for another 200 years, I predict that religion will be catagorized with Santa and the Easter Bunny.

reply to post by JadeRanger


Have to say I whole heartedly agree with you there.

Look, religion isn't for me. I like to think of myself as a scientist and only believe in facts that can be backed up. I've discussed with this other people of differing faiths and their side of the argument was that mathematics and physics can't really be construed as "hard evidence" due to both being another construct of human ideal - just like religion. But in my opinion math and physics are the best possible human explanation of how and why things are the way they are. You can formulate a hypothesis and prove this to be true using these methods - that's not really something you can do with religion as it requires a substantial amount of "faith" beforehand.

I've always considered religion to be a very very old police force - eternal damnation etc are stories just like the boogeyman. They are used to enforce ideals just like to tell your children that if they don't conform to some rule the boogeyman will get them.

Now don't get me wrong, I'm not dismissing religion as "incorrect" your faith is your faith and I'll respect that as long as you respect my way of life. I am curious as to what faith feels like - it must be nice being so sure of something because I'm certainly not sure of much without evidence.

I've always had something that played on my mind since a child - I noticed that human beings seem to have an enormous capacity for boredom. No matter what it is, do it long enough and you become bored of it. Eternal paradise for eternity - surely that's going to become boring. Eternal damnation for eternity - surely that's going to become boring. In order to identify paradise with damnation we will need to retain our human emotions when we die - along with that our capacity for boredom will be carried across.

Cheers

Same thing here.

I have no room in my life for religion. I believe in myself, I hold myself accountable, and I treat people the way i want to be treated.

You don't have to believe in anything to be a good person.
I don't need an instruction manual to tell me how to live either.

Originally posted by luckypuck
Creationism and evolution are apples and oranges. Creationism is faith, evolution is science. ...

Creationism is not faith from the point of view that an intelligent species can design and create life, although maybe we should label that Intelligent Design.

"christians don't force their beliefs on others"

funny thing happened last year... i was on spring break in panama city, FL with a few buddies. after a power hour, we decided to go down to the pool to hangout with all the other drunkards. we take one maybe two steps out of the room when this christ crusade rolls up on us. next thing i know this group of like 6 people are grilling me and my buddies about either 1) why we're not a christian or 2) if we were a christian, why are we drinking in excess. it was really, REALLY ANNOYING. the ultimate buzzkill. i tried my best to get rid of these people. after like 15 minutes i remember saying i was a buddhist (which i'm not lol) and i don't wish to continue the conversation and i need to go back in my room. one guy tries to follow me in my room to tell me why buddhism is wrong. i nicely told him to get the f# out. i reemerged about 20 minutes later assuming they'd be at least a few rooms down forcing their beliefs down someone elses throat. but, sure enough, there they are. and now they have notecards. GREAT i think. they proceed to talk to us and draw pictures/analogies on their notecards for about 15 more minutes until i decide f# this! as bad as i felt, i had to literally cuss these people out in order for them to leave me alone. for some reason saying, "sorry, i don't want to talk about this right now" like 5 times wasn't adequate enough for them.

if you don't believe christians don't force their beliefs upon other people then you've been effectively brainwashed. i hope that you realize the consequences of your actions someday (ex: you'll only push people further away from your religion by telling them what they believe in is wrong and you'll burn in hell if you don't do what we say).

Originally posted by cambrian77

The truth is that Christians are not forcing their beliefs on anyone.

No, but they do say that people who do not agree with them will burn in hell for eternity, which is neither nice nor likely.

Also most Americans believe in creation and God. This means that they are the majority and democracy serves the majority.... I mean, in America, if the majority wants creation then creation should be the way to go.

Unfortunately, facts aren't something you can vote on.

You could call Americans ignorant because of this but it doesn't really matter because the 'ignorant' people are still the majority.

So if the majority of Americans believed that the earth was flat, would you believe that too. Would we have to rewrite all the textbooks? How does ignorance have any bearing on what is true and what is false?

I don't understand why so many Christians can't just be Christian while still accepting the overwhelming evidence that evolution was an operative factor in the development of life on earth. I mean, the Bible is full of archaic beliefs that I know you don't subscribe to. The Bible is myth, and the truths it contains are psychological truths. Those are important. Genesis is full of truth, but it's a kind of truth that has nothing to do with what science is doing.

Btw, evolution is a theory. A very good one. There are no absolutes in science -- it is always a work in progress. Only organized religions propound absolute truths. That's why they tend to cancel each other out ... and why they usually want to destroy each other.

[edit on 24-1-2008 by cambrian77]

Evolutionism is a religion. Its high priests deny tenure in universities to anyone who questions it doctrines.

Studies of origins do not rightly belong is science classes since you cannot reproduce creation or even coax one creature to change species. Of all the fossils found, where are the "missing links"?

If I believed Evolution, then I would think that our public policies should conform with it rather than fight it. If I believed Evolution, then I would think that we should not fund care for the less fit. If I believed Evolution, then I would think society would be better off without mentally handicapped or the physically infirm. If I believed Evolution, then I would advocate having a health care system like they had in the 1930's in Germany, where all the less-fit people died in the hospitals.

Long before the National Socialist Party of Germany (commonly called the Nazi Party) came to power the ideas behind it were taught in German universities and accepted by "scientists".

Originally posted by malin23
"christians don't force their beliefs on others"

funny thing happened last year... i was on spring break in panama city, FL with a few buddies. after a power hour, we decided to go down to the pool to hangout with all the other drunkards. we take one maybe two steps out of the room when this christ crusade rolls up on us. next thing i know this group of like 6 people are grilling me and my buddies about either 1) why we're not a christian or 2) if we were a christian, why are we drinking in excess. it was really, REALLY ANNOYING. the ultimate buzzkill. i tried my best to get rid of these people. after like 15 minutes i remember saying i was a buddhist (which i'm not lol) and i don't wish to continue the conversation and i need to go back in my room. one guy tries to follow me in my room to tell me why buddhism is wrong. i nicely told him to get the f# out. i reemerged about 20 minutes later assuming they'd be at least a few rooms down forcing their beliefs down someone elses throat. but, sure enough, there they are. and now they have notecards. GREAT i think. they proceed to talk to us and draw pictures/analogies on their notecards for about 15 more minutes until i decide f# this! as bad as i felt, i had to literally cuss these people out in order for them to leave me alone. for some reason saying, "sorry, i don't want to talk about this right now" like 5 times wasn't adequate enough for them.

if you don't believe christians don't force their beliefs upon other people then you've been effectively brainwashed. i hope that you realize the consequences of your actions someday (ex: you'll only push people further away from your religion by telling them what they believe in is wrong and you'll burn in hell if you don't do what we say).

Just because someone doesn't take "no" for an answer or acts like a jerk making you listen to something, doesn't mean they are forcing their beliefs on you.

In fact a Christian can't force you to become a Christian, unlike a Muslim who can hold a sword over your head and say "Convert or die." You can become a Muslim by saying you are one, praying towards Mecca 5 times a day and not violating certain rules. Doing such things will not make you a Christian. Being a Christian is about having a relationship with Jesus.

"Many will say to me on that day, 'Lord, Lord, did we not prophesy in your name, and in your name drive out demons and perform many miracles?' Then I will tell them plainly, 'I never knew you. Away from me, you evildoers!'" Matthew 7:22-23 (NIV)

It is impossible to force anyone to have a relationship with Jesus and He is too polite to force anyone to spend eternity in heaven with Him if they don't want to.

Originally posted by CharlesMartel
If I believed Evolution, then I would think that our public policies should conform with it rather than fight it. If I believed Evolution, then I would think that we should not fund care for the less fit. If I believed Evolution, then I would think society would be better off without mentally handicapped or the physically infirm. If I believed Evolution, then I would advocate having a health care system like they had in the 1930's in Germany, where all the less-fit people died in the hospitals.

And if you believed in gravity, we should allow all planes to fall from the sky. If you believed in germ theory, then we should not treat people with anti-biotics...

Such a bad argument. There is no 'ought' in evolution. I don't 'believe' in evolution, I accept it. But I also don't advocate any of the crap you just mentioned.

I love the thinly veiled breaking of Godwin's law (reductio ad hitlerum). Nazi Germany based their eugenics on its efficient application in the US. Eugenics isn't even natural evolution, its artificial selection. The same that had been applied for thousands of years in livestock breeding.

[edit on 27-1-2008 by melatonin]

Yes, but in evolution, it's survival of the fittest.
The highest on the food chain decide who will live, even among their own.
So, if one wolf(for example) takes over a pack and kills the babies, well, that's just nature.
Humans are bound by God's standards.

Originally posted by Clearskies
Yes, but in evolution, it's survival of the fittest.
The highest on the food chain decide who will live, even among their own.
So, if one wolf(for example) takes over a pack and kills the babies, well, that's just nature.

So what?

What do you think 'fittest' means?

ABE: I also don't think it's as simple as 'highest' in food chain deciding who lives. A cheetah catches the gazelle who can't escape its clutches, a two way interaction.

Humans are bound by God's standards.

No, you're bound by a few laws in a book.

[edit on 27-1-2008 by melatonin]

reply to post by melatonin

I agree with your initial statement that they're bound by what's in their minds. It's dead on. Religion is a state of mind.

reply to post by melatonin


In 'fittest', I mean strongest, most able to adapt to change.

reply to post by Anatomic Bomb


No, It's a state of the mind, heart and soul.

Originally posted by Clearskies
In 'fittest', I mean strongest, most able to adapt to change.

That's not what it means. It's more the most suited to its environment allowing an organism to make lots of mini me's. In biology, fitness is really just a measure of reproductive success.

The fittest is the one that produces the most offspring. 'Survival of the fittest' is a poor description of evolution really, both Darwin and Wallace disliked it.

Originally posted by Anatomic Bomb
I agree with your initial statement that they're bound by what's in their minds. It's dead on. Religion is a state of mind.

Yeah, I changed it.

It was 'In your mind' originally, but it's not even that. It's 'in their book'. They blindly follow a few laws in a book, not even able to form their own morals. I'm glad they have them, some of these people might well be psychopaths without them.

After all, many question how an atheist could be moral without some simple written rules to follow, heh.

[edit on 27-1-2008 by melatonin]

Originally posted by melatonin
some of these people might well be psychopaths without them.

Some of them are psychopaths with them. Look at most of the classic fruit loops, they usually come from a rabidly religious household and end up invoking god or some other religious stupidity as their excuse for murdering their children or whatever.

God told me to do it.

My children were possessed.

He was evil.

Definitely a state of mind.

Originally posted by Anatomic Bomb
Some of them are psychopaths with them.

Without doubt. I think Weinberg's quote comes to mind...

"Religion is an insult to human dignity. With or without it you would have good people doing good things and evil people doing evil things. But for good people to do evil things, that takes religion."

Originally posted by Anatomic Bomb
Some of them are psychopaths with them. Look at most of the classic fruit loops, they usually come from a rabidly religious household and end up invoking god or some other religious stupidity as their excuse for murdering their children or whatever.

The 'classic' fruitloops' that are from western culture are only the most well known to westerners!
Because someone is raised with the knowledge of God, doesn't mean they're born again or make their hearts clean and their hands as well.

I don't think the various CRAZY, psychopathic caesars were raised in christian households.
I believe only nero blamed his problems on christians.