[HOAX]Michael Horns Billy Meier photos[HOAX] from C2C tonight

This is humorous as I never thought I would be the Meier Champion

mythatsabigprobe:
--Nope, no offense taken. I think you missed the post I just put posted regarding the images. I'll be back here later tonight to maybe banter some more.

--How do I know they are unrelated? -- a few documentary's were done and people unrelated to Billy interviewed people around his town. Billy would go to areas the et's would tell him to go to.. Different locations for a different shot to heap on the amount of proof would be needed to debunk his story. .. which leads to the next concept.

Example 1: Billy described one of his photos was taken at location A:
location A was waaay the hell out in the middle of nowhere/farmland. To get to the location he was being directed to, he had to ask the owner of the land to open a gate to let him on.

The documentary fellas tracked the owner of the land down to ask questions.. this is years after the fact.
The owner said Billy was alone and carried a camera and was riding a moped.
An hour later the owner said Billy came back off the land and would have a beard when before he was freshly shaved for the contact.
No models in hand, the location was on this man's land and proven by the photo and where Billy directed investigators to go to see the surroundings. It was impossible for Billy to get on the land with a model, another person etc without going through the owner or be seen by the owner.

All sorts of little stories like this float around. not billy's words.. others..The "debunkers" drown the possibility of people wanting to know more though.

b

Originally posted by jritzmann

Originally posted by Bspiracy
duplicate it then if it's so easy. I would love to hear a reproduction and not somone describing a soup of styles they think would match.

So are you willing to do the work...or just sit and spout on a website?

Funny how you quote just the part that makes me sound like an ahole. I also said that it would plant a seed of doubt in my head if it could be done.
I am not "spouting". I am discussing and by the way you replied to me there you are starting to sound like Horn.

If you asked me to make some duplicate images like you have done, I could as well. That is my point in all of this. Just because you can does not mean it was done that way. The complete story and all the characters is what I am pulling together.
Did you know these other stories I just posted or did you just say" I can fake that" so you labeled it a fake?. I can get some people to corroborate a few concepts that also add to the possible damnation but you didn't talk to the people who lived around him?

Don't get me wrong, you have done some good work and I applaud you for taking the time and effort to do so. It's not the end all though. His story and all the people he knows and has been around still outweighs anything you can say to me.

If it makes you feel better, I do have doubts and people like yourself have put those doubts there. Still not enough though.

If I could go to Switzerland, I would. That is where the truth is.

b

Originally posted by johnlear
Originally posted by mazzroth

Billy "cake tin" Meier is a proven fake and the real mystery surrounding this man is why he is doing all of this ?

Thanks for the post mazzroth. I disagree that Billy "cake tin" Meier has been proven a fake.

Those who have allegedly proven him a fake have only done so with alleged findings of nuts and bolts and shelving pins allegedly found on second, third or fourth generation photos posted on the web.

No one allegedly finding Billy Meiers as a fake have ever been to Switzerland or ever talked to Bill Meiers face to face.

But thanks for your post, as uninformed and lacking of facts as it may be.

Thank you for stating this, John. I'm not saying everyone should jump on board the Billy Meier train, but a true skeptic would investigate the facts and then make a conclusion on their own, not through the web, or hearsay. If there's one thing this board lacks its true skeptics and investigators.

Furthermore: You are right. No one who claims he is a fake has ever been to Switzerland to look at the spots where he took the photos. You do not have to be a member of his alledged "cult" or pay him to do so.


[edit on 21-1-2008 by AGENT51]

[edit on 21-1-2008 by AGENT51]

Originally posted by Bspiracy

Originally posted by jritzmann

Originally posted by Bspiracy
duplicate it then if it's so easy. I would love to hear a reproduction and not somone describing a soup of styles they think would match.

So are you willing to do the work...or just sit and spout on a website?

Funny how you quote just the part that makes me sound like an ahole. I also said that it would plant a seed of doubt in my head if it could be done.
I am not "spouting". I am discussing and by the way you replied to me there you are starting to sound like Horn.

Well thats truly horrifying, but probably an unfortunate by-product of being on the front lines with Horn too long. I never want to come off like that, so I apologize if I did.

Originally posted by Bspiracy
If you asked me to make some duplicate images like you have done, I could as well. That is my point in all of this. Just because you can does not mean it was done that way. The complete story and all the characters is what I am pulling together.

The complete story and "characters" is all part of what I looked into. As far as duplication, I've discussed in depth before about why my shots and Meier's share the same earmarks of a small object close to the camera. If there's no distance haze in my shots, nor Meier's what does that point to. It's just common sense. There's plenty more commonalities, and even more Meier photos with very serious issues.

But you miss the point. Horn said the photos couldn't be duplicated thru the use of small models. I have shown that not to be true. That was the challenge I took, and I met.

When I challenged him to put one of Meier's originals up along side mine for an independent 3rd party analysis, he refused, and has done so ever since. "We've moved beyond those concerns."

Then why demand me to duplicate shots and prove my point in the first place. It just goes to show how clueless these people are in their arguments and logic.

Originally posted by Bspiracy
Did you know these other stories I just posted or did you just say" I can fake that" so you labeled it a fake?. I can get some people to corroborate a few concepts that also add to the possible damnation but you didn't talk to the people who lived around him?

Because I see no reason to, when I have such issues with the initial informational photos and films. I have data to test, and I cannot test for honesty and alleged eyewitnesses. A lot of these so called witnesses are people who believe Meier and or live at the compound. Of course they back it.

We have data/claims, and that data doesnt fly....so why am I going to go to supposed eyewitnesses. See the point?

Originally posted by Bspiracy
Don't get me wrong, you have done some good work and I applaud you for taking the time and effort to do so. It's not the end all though. His story and all the people he knows and has been around still outweighs anything you can say to me.

Then you obviously don't want to do the work, and you're content to believe whatever your told so long as it fits what you want it to be.

As I said, don't believe me, go find out for yourself. If you don't ignore the negative stuff you're going to find, you'll come to the same end I did. I'm sure of that.

Here's what another touted expert said about the Meier case you wont hear from the proponents of the case:

Robert Nathan In 1978 Nr. Robert Nathan at JPL was sufficiently impressed with the Meier photographs to have copies made of Meier transparencies at the JPL photo lab. After the transfer he refused to analyze the photographs, however, because his developer discovered they were several generations away from the originals. Nathan felt that the transparencies were so far away in generation from the photographs he had seen that Wendelle Stevens had attempted to trick him.

This is the kind of stuff you find. Did you read what I posted about the sound? Do you even care?

As I said, don't believe me. Go find out yourself instead of being led around by the nose. It's liberating, and you'll find out how dirty this whole UFO business is.

At this point I'll not post to this thread again, and do unwitting promotion for this trash. If you need any further reply from me, email me or U2U me.

[edit on 21-1-2008 by jritzmann]

Originally posted by jritzmann

Robert Nathan In 1978 Nr. Robert Nathan at JPL was sufficiently impressed with the Meier photographs to have copies made of Meier transparencies at the JPL photo lab. After the transfer he refused to analyze the photographs, however, because his developer discovered they were several generations away from the originals. Nathan felt that the transparencies were so far away in generation from the photographs he had seen that Wendelle Stevens had attempted to trick him.

Before I comment on this paragraph, Riztmann, I wanted to be sure that this is your comment and that you are presenting it as the 'truth'. Thanks.

Are these toy UFOs actually reproduced by someone trying to disprove Meyer or?...

Because the original Meyer photos show a Lazar-Sportsmodel.

reply to post by johnlear


No, thats Gary Kinder's "An Open Letter to the UFO Community
by Gary Kinder, author of Light Years" which I'm sure plenty have not seen nor read.

If you'd like to see some from those I could contact directly some are posted in this thread, and others in the old thread. I'm sure you can find them.




[edit on 21-1-2008 by jritzmann]

Originally posted by jritzmann

No, thats Gary Kinder's "An Open Letter to the UFO Community
by Gary Kinder, author of Light Years" which I'm sure plenty have not seen nor read.

If you'd like to see some from those I could contact directly some are posted in this thread, and others in the old thread. I'm sure you can find them.

I respectfully disagree with your cherry-picking here Ritzmann.

anyway...here is the rest of that paragraph:

Later, I showed the Meier films to Nathan, and he laughed at some of them, but he couldn't figure out how Meier flew the ship into a scene and had it come to a sudden halt; or how it sould hover motionless while a pine branch in the lower right corner blows in a stiff wind. Nathan said, "He would have to be awfully clever, because that's a very steady holding. It would have to be a very, very good tethering." Then he said, "Apparently he's a sharp guy, very clever. So he should be given some points for effort." Nathan concluded about the films, "If this is a hoax, and it looks like it is to me but I have no proof, this is very carefully done. Tremendous amount of effort. An awful lot of work for one guy." From all of the scientists, these were the most negative comments I received.

Here's another you missed:

Then there is Robert Post, who had been at the JPL photo laboratory for 22 years and was the head of that lab in 1979, when Nathan brought the Meier photos to him to have copies made. Post oversees the developing and printing of every photograph that comes out of JPL. Though he analyzed nothing, his eye for spotting fabrications far surpasses a lay-person's. Post told me: "From a photography standpoint, you couldn't see anything that was fake about the Meier photos. That's what struck me. They looked like legitimate photographs. I thought, 'God, if this is real, this is going to be really something."

Here's another you missed:

Eric Eliason of the U.S. Geological Survey in Flagstaff, Arizona, is the ninth of the experts I spoke with. After receiving his packet, he wrote to me, "Thank you for the accurate representation of my views on the Meier UFO photographs. If your LIGHT YEARS publication remains as objective as the pages you provided, I will look forward to reading what you have to say." Eliason creates image processing software so astrogeologists can analyze photographs of the planets beamed back from space. He spent two years producing the intricate radar map of cloud-covered Venus acquired by Pioneer 10, and his software has been applied in processing space photography beamed back, by both Viking and Voyager. He was sent to France and to China as a representative of the U.S. space program and an expert in image processing. He had analyzed the Meier photos on his equipment in 1981. He told me in an interview in August 1984: "In the photographs there were no sharp breaks where you could see it had been somehow artificially dubbed. And if that dubbing was registered in the film, the computer would have seen it. We didn't see anything."

think-aboutit.com...


Thanks for the opportunity to present the truth about the Billy Meiers case.

reply to post by johnlear


Just presenting the other side to you and Horn's cherry picking Lear. All that is on Horn's site....everyone sees that.

Hell Horn even admitted here on ATS long ago, that he conveniently left out Posts entire comments.

So, please save your attempt on the cherry picking comment. Like I said, if you'd like ones from people I spoke with, go look at them. Their about as concise as it gets.

I've tried repeatedly to contact Volker Engel, who Horn says he took the films to. They clearly want nothing to do with this whatsoever. I am yet to get a simple yes or nor answer as to whether they even saw these items.

Shocker huh?

Btw: "In the photographs there were no sharp breaks where you could see it had been somehow artificially dubbed. And if that dubbing was registered in the film, the computer would have seen it. We didn't see anything."

That means it wasn't a pasteup or inserted after the shot. That doesn't include small models. So, sorry, try again.

And as I said, my contributions to this pseudo promo thread is done.


[edit on 21-1-2008 by jritzmann]

Originally posted by jritzmann

That means it wasn't a pasteup or inserted after the shot. That doesn't include small models. So, sorry, try again.

Oh. OK. Well then why don't you make us a small model of the wedding cake. Show is how 'easy it is'.

And as I said, my contributions to this pseudo promo thread is done.

Thank you Ritzmann and we pray that your word is your bond.

reply to post by johnlear


I did one model already, hung it, shot it, proved it and moved on...how's about you do this one.


Ya know John, you're just one of those guys who looks for the confrontation and seems to thrive on negative attention. Ever notice that about yourself?

Here's to you fighting with yourself.


[edit on 21-1-2008 by jritzmann]

A model of a model..?

Originally posted by mazzroth
I'd personally say his own wife would be a tangible witness to his dealings and she has stated publically he faked all the photo's.

that is true she did come forth with the trash can lid to show
how Billy faked the wedding cake photos.

reply to post by mythatsabigprobe



That yellow cheese stick that fell off in that photo you have to ignore, the fact that the last 2 cups up the top didn't quite line up and had to overlap the outer edges like that means its the openeing were the Aliens hop out.

The fact if you even look closer down the bottom right hand edge of the lower lid its warped is due to the high stresses it suffers in intergalactic flight...arghhh i give up even being sarcastic its impossible to defend this stupid pack of lies and deception!!!

Originally posted by jritzmann

Ya know John, you're just one of those guys who looks for the confrontation and seems to thrive on negative attention. Ever notice that about yourself? Here's to you fighting with yourself.

Actually I am not looking for confrontation. I am just seeking Truth, Justice and the American Way and all I get is confrontation.

The Billy Meiers case is real, he had contact with extraterrestrials and he got to ride around in their craft.

I suspect that late at night you often awake in a cold, fearful sweat that the Billy Meiers case will be proven true and the sum of your lifes work will be for naught.

Ritzmann, apologies if this has been asked before, but are you really a miniature tree cultivator as Horn claims you are? And if so, did you put miniature trees in your photos?

Originally posted by johnlear

I don't know anything about what Bob is doing other than he was at the Pentagon several weeks ago.

Wow now I really think Bob Lazar is a disinfo agent of the highest order. Him going to the Pentagon? If that doesn't tell anyone he's working for the covert government I don't know what does...

By the way Billy Meier is a joke....

[edit on 21-1-2008 by omnicron]

Originally posted by omnicron

By the way Billy Meier is a joke....

Thats what the uninformed believe. More power to them.

In my book, however, the Billy Meier case was real. He met with extraterrestrials. They took him in their spaceships. He got to see lots of cool stuff.

But here's the deal. It's only a teaser. It's information for those who are ready.

For those who are not: it didn't happen, it couldn't happen, we are looking at models hung by a string.

The crazy Swissman is a hoaxer, so this should go to skunkworks. no further evidence is needed, please people(moderators) stop the madness. the maier threadstarters just troll around. probably all of them are horn-sockpuppets.


@lear

You are joking, right?

[edit on 21-1-2008 by hoeon]

Originally posted by johnlear
I suspect that late at night you often awake in a cold, fearful sweat that the Billy Meiers case will be proven true and the sum of your lifes work will be for naught.

Dream on, he's far from my life's work. If my life's work were to continue to debunk the case, life would be so easy.