Pine Gap Underground Entry?

This antenna array(the circular one) is definately no water tank.I have been to it on my bike.Its on the way to a small town called Yerranderie approx 40 kilometes from black springs.Its approx 50 metres accross.The building you see to the south of it is the power room.The other antenna over to the far right corner is 100% bindook nav beacon and nav aid.This large array sits right in the middle of one of the largest underground setups in the world.Thats about it.simple.And please dont ask for"where's the proof".....my advice is,get your google earth out and spend the next 5 years of your life glued to it.......then post.

very interesting thread so far... I stopped reading after pg 10 so If someone already brought this up my apologies.
Hopefully dogghead is still around and can shed some light on this

December 2005, four peace activists from the affinity group Christians Against ALL Terrorism entered the Joint Defence Facility Pine Gap, and were arrested soon after. Jim Dowling, Adele Goldie, Bryan Law and Donna Mulhearn approached the base from two different directions in darkness to carry out a protest against Australia's involvement in the war in Iraq, in the belief that Pine Gap had a significant role in the conduct of that war.

there is also a written account and pictures of the protestors here
www.globalcollab.org...


and that is only the most recent known protest
here is a link to some other's that date further back
www.globalcollab.org...
any thoughts.... there is loads of info around on this subject but finding the legit sources can be a challenge

GummB

I read through this thread about Pine Gap. I roll my eyes reading some of the absolute nonsense being said.

As a bloke who has lived in Alice Springs since 1988, I will make just one comment to show how very questionable some of the "facts" posted here are.

Comment: If Pine Gap is so Top Secret, how is it then possible that visitors can join tours of the place.? I've been there many times but have never worked there.


One more... Of the comment about a tunnel entrance into the mountain identified with Google Earth located a couple hundred metres to the left of the entrance, it's an electrical sub station box that you can walk up to the fence and view it (from outside the fence) at a distance of maybe 25 metres.

Originally posted by NTresident
I read through this thread about Pine Gap. I roll my eyes reading some of the absolute nonsense being said.

As a bloke who has lived in Alice Springs since 1988, I will make just one comment to show how very questionable some of the "facts" posted here are.

Comment: If Pine Gap is so Top Secret, how is it then possible that visitors can join tours of the place.? I've been there many times but have never worked there.


One more... Of the comment about a tunnel entrance into the mountain identified with Google Earth located a couple hundred metres to the left of the entrance, it's an electrical sub station box that you can walk up to the fence and view it (from outside the fence) at a distance of maybe 25 metres.

Finally !!!!

Someone that has been.

Thanks mate.

My origonal post was because that entrance appeared to be fiddled with on Google earth.

I would love to hear from you about the tour.

Mungo

reply to post by NTresident


OK Matey, go to the guardpost, flash your ID. You'll never get a "tour" unless you're within the military or the Energy Commission. You don't "know" what is there, we've been building underground since Maralingua.

plate techtonics & a depth of "continuance" of science experimentation indicate a very "safe place" to be. Area 51, haha, this is something else. Remotest place on the planet.

That's your clue. Are you allowed to see the radar screen attached to the satellitle dishes?? It's underground for a reason. To protect what you dont need to know, nor understand.

Are you allowed to go underground via lifts
Are you allowed to see the power sources
Have you seen the server/comms rooms
Have you been escorted under guards with guns to your office? As protection,...

Happy Hunting

HADES

reply to post by GummB

Hopefully dogghead is still around and can shed some light on this

Dogghead was found to be a hoaxer, and was justifiably banned.

He wont be shedding anything soon.

Prior to the World Trade Centre terrorist attacks, each Sunday afternoon any person invited by an employee and in the company of that employee cold jump on the R & R bus and take a guided tour of the facility. The tour would end with a BBQ at the recreational park just outside the gates.

Since then, security increased quite a lot. The only physical increase of security was putting up a decent fence, The previous fence was just a 3 strand barbed wire fence to keep cattle out. The new fence is about 3 metres high and is to keep people out. The main increase of security relates to who and when outsiders are permitted in. The other is where people can enter. The Tech Building is now off limits to almost all visitors. I am told this is because military actions are in operation (Iraq and Afghanistan) so the Tech Building is pretty much off limits.

The Sunday afternoon tours no longer happen, but most individuals who are invited by an employee can still have a personal tour of the place. The invited guest needs to be a family member or long term friend or associate.

Reality is that it is not really all that interesting to visit. Mostly a lot of office buildings, accommodation and recreational facilities. At the western end is the big electrical generator shed which I think is the highlight of the tour. Huge diesel powered generators that run so very quietly. Pity the Alice Springs power generators for the town could not be so quiet. The domes are not of any great interest. Just satellite dishes inside.

The gym next to the Bull bar is great. The Bull Bar has the cheapest drinks in probably all of Australia since there is no tax added. I am not a golfer myself but have been there with a few mates who played a few rounds.

There are no underground levels and the only tunnels are service tunnels for cables and pipes between the different buildings and the domes. The surface temperature of the ground in central Australia during Summer can exceed 70 degrees celcius. This is the reason the cables and pipes go underground. In the town of Alice Springs, cables and pipes go underground as well for the same reasons.

I read over and over about supposed underground levels but there is no evidence of that, but ample evidence to prove there is not. The place was built in the late 1960's all by local companies. Some of those guys are still around and speak openly about the construction and what's there and what is not there. None of the local guys had to undergo any security screening. After all, why would that be required just to pour concrete slabs and build offices and a few huge sheds.?

I should add too that there are many reference all over the net about Pine Gap being in "the mountains". The closest mountain is miles away being Mount Gillen to the North that overshadows the town of Alice Springs. It is part of a series of Mountains called the Macdonnell ranges. The next mountain range is the Waterhouse Ranges some 60 kilometres to the south. Pine Gap is in a valley surrounded by low hilly ranges.

The name Pine Gap comes from a nearby Gap in that hilly range. Across the hills are many Desert Cypress trees which early explorers thought were pine trees and hence called the Gap, Pine Gap.


I also read where people say... "it is so secret, not even the Prime Minister is allowed in".. Let's see if if anyone can actually find an accurate source where that is stated... (an example of something like a newspaper story saying... "Malcolm Fraser said today that he would protest to the US President because he was refused entry to Pine Gap")

reply to post by maxwellsdemon


Of your Questions....

Are you allowed to go underground via lifts - there are no lifts or underground levels

Are you allowed to see the power sources - yes. In the big shed on the western side of the place

Have you seen the server/comms rooms - yes. only once about 12 years ago.

Have you been escorted under guards with guns to your office? - There are no guards in my office, but the Family Court is in the same building as me and they have an armed Chubb Security Guard.

Originally posted by GummB
very interesting thread so far... I stopped reading after pg 10 so If someone already brought this up my apologies.
Hopefully dogghead is still around and can shed some light on this

December 2005, four peace activists from the affinity group Christians Against ALL Terrorism entered the Joint Defence Facility Pine Gap, and were arrested soon after. Jim Dowling, Adele Goldie, Bryan Law and Donna Mulhearn approached the base from two different directions in darkness to carry out a protest against Australia's involvement in the war in Iraq, in the belief that Pine Gap had a significant role in the conduct of that war.

".... in the belief that Pine Gap had a significant role in the conduct of that war...."

If they read the Weekend Australian back around 2003 or 2004, they could have confirmed their belief. There was a 4 page spread about the the first Gulf War. It had a diagram of how the Patriot missile launchers were given their coordinates from Pine Gap that was tracking the Scud missiles. There was also a couple photos from satellites over Iraq attributed to being obtained by Pine Gap satellite monitoring of the region.. There was also an interview with some Government official. I think it was the Defence Minister at the time describing Pine Gap's military role.

I particularly remember the article from the paper because a couple weeks later, there was a big protest rally at Pine Gap where the protesters said at the end of it they had successfully revealed Pine Gap's military role. We in Alice Springs laughed because what they "revealed" was already printed in the papers 2 weeks earlier.

reply to post by NTresident



G,day NT good to see another Aussie on ATS I was wondering if you could answer some questions for me,

The claims that the US Air force fly's C 130 Hercules into Alice at least 3 times a week how true is that, Even if it was in the 80's

Did you read any of Ancient Arrows posts on this thread, If you did what are your thoughts on his posts?

There has been numerous accounts of strange lights/ craft flying in the vicinity dating back 30 years or more, have you ever seen anything that you couldn't explain

Is there a no fly zone over the base and what about the claims that some have flown over and being intercepted and their aircraft being stripped apart at Alice airport, surely if that happened it would be the talk of the town

Also the claim about water being transported up from SA to service the base how true is that

I hope you can answer these questions but if you wish not to its fine by me

Take care mate

wal

reply to post by auswally


The claims that the US Air force fly's C 130 Hercules into Alice at least 3 times a week how true is that, Even if it was in the 80's
@@@@@ The only planes coming in for Pine Gap are the C-141 Starlifter or the C-5 Galaxy. They come in once a week arriving on Tuesday mornings. They fly out again later in the week. I think it is Thursday afternoons.
These planes do a circle milk run flight. US mainland to Hawaii, Guam, Japan and Australia
www.vectorsite.net...

Did you read any of Ancient Arrows posts on this thread, If you did what are your thoughts on his posts?
@@@@@ I have read some and doubt his credibility in total. When he talks of hunting near Pine Gap, I find this unbelievable. Pine Gap is surrounded by cattle stations and of one Templebar station, the owner is Rod Cramer who would NEVER give permission to hunt there.
He says on on 1-9-2009 @ 08:38 AM about where he lives and later says he lives "next door". I know for a fact that is a lie.The closest residential area to Pine Gap would be the town of Alice Springs to the north west 15 kilometres away (as the crow flies). To the west and north is Templebar Station owned by Rod Cramer. North of that again is the rural residential area known as WhiteGums. He say his location is Iwuptaka. That is the name of the aboriginal land located a further 6 or so kilometres from the rural residential area. At least that is where is starts. Iwupataka extends a further 20 kilometres west. If he refers to living at least 30 kilometres away from Pine Gapand divided by at least twenty 5 and 10 acre rural blocks and cattle stations as being next door, then I guess he is next door. He refers to a google image saying where his house is located. Zoom in if you like. He refers to Owen Springs being handed back to aborigines. No it has not. It remains under ownership of NT Government for use by the public and as a conservation reserve (refer NT News Archives). No hunting allowed, even for aborigines.
He says... "Pine Gap is built on a big underground river system not the same water basin as Alice Springs uses. ". Not true. The town water for Alice Springs comes from the Amadeus Artesian basin and the town bore is only 4 kilometres east of Pine Gap. That Artesian basin extends all the way into W.A. . (google it)
The rest of that post is riddled with other mistruths that can easily be disproven.

There has been numerous accounts of strange lights/ craft flying in the vicinity dating back 30 years or more, have you ever seen anything that you couldn't explain
@@@@@@@ Interesting thing about this is almost all of these reports come from one Alice Springs person named Kieth Douglas. He is very well known in this town and lives in a fantasy land. He is very well known for his fabrications and exaggerations. After living in Alice Springs since 1988, I have only met one person here who has seen "UFO's", but that was not in Alice Springs. His sighting was some 100 kilometres west but sounds more like ball lightning than a UFO.I refer to unexplained UFO's. Other past sightings have been identified... things like pranks with helium balloons and Ultra light aircraft. Further north at Wycliffe Well (350 ks north) is supposedly a UFO hot spot. Science has easily explained many of those as being associated with mining operations west of the area.

Is there a no fly zone over the base and what about the claims that some have flown over and being intercepted and their aircraft being stripped apart at Alice airport, surely if that happened it would be the talk of the town
@@@@@@@ Half true. Yes it is no fly over Pine Gap, but no truth to any planes being stripped apart. The No fly zone is essentially stopping planes directly overhead. The flight path for the airport allows passengers to look out their windows to see the base quite clearly. A mate of mine is a commercial pilot and he tells me it is a no fly zone because the satellite signals interfere with their instruments, but I don't know if that is factual or not.

Also the claim about water being transported up from SA to service the base how true is that
@@@@@@@ Nonsense. They pump their water from the artesian basin below.

Originally posted by Silver Shadow
The only thing I know about Pine Gap, apart from what is now pretty much widely discussed on the internet, is that Australians are definitely not allowed into the top secret inner sanctum at Pine Gap.
A former ASIO officer once told me, Australians have no real idea what is actually there in terms of equipment or capability. Everything is flown in and flown out in boxes and containers.

To introduce the truth here.

Pine Gap employs just over 800 people. A little under a third are Aussies. A buddy of mine (an aussie) worked in the Tech Building (the inner sanctum) for about 5 years. He of course can not disclose what he saw in there or anything about the operations within. The chief of Security at Pine Gap is Kenny Napier. I've known Kenny for about 20 years. He has worked at Pine Gap for almost that many years. He is an Aussie and has access to the whole place.

And while true a lot is flown in and out, other freights comes by road or rail. Some of the freight on the plane includes the Americans personal freight when they move here to live. Includes stuff like furniture, cars, bicycles etc.

Originally posted by Anonymous ATS
...just after some info..
has the area that contains the pine gap facility ever been subject to a native title claim, by the local indigenous peoples of that area?
just curiuos to know if it has ever happened, or what the consequnces would be it there where to be such a claim...

The answer is No.

reply to post by NTresident



Thanks for the reply NT its appreciated

I think Ancient Arrow was saying he is indigenous meaning he can hunt on the property around PG because of native title , could be wrong thou

Here is a interview with Keith Douglas from Alex Furgusons ufo site if you want a listen, he taks about Pine Gap

Keith Douglas

Wal

Thanks NT.

Answers at last.

I am surprised that it is in a valley.

Google earth is very deceptive.

Mungo

Originally posted by auswally
reply to post by NTresident

 

I think Ancient Arrow was saying he is indigenous meaning he can hunt on the property around PG because of native title , could be wrong thou

Indigenous or not, nobody can hunt in National Parks and Conservation reserves. Of Cattle Stations, there has to be consent of the owner. Around central Australia almost no owner will giver permission. In the local paper, the Centralian Advocate, every issue has a string of classified advertisements warning of prosecution of trespassers or hunters on the cattle stations.


Ancient Arrow said in that post on 1-9-2009


"For many years we the land owners have complained to the authorities about the underground rumblings every night mostly for years.
They have stopped since 2007. "

Outright lie. That never happened.


He also said.... "One time I went to the Power and Water resources in Alice Springs to get a permit to drill for water on our land and I was told blatantly that it was forbidden to drill for water and the official said it was because of PG. ""

Another lie. Power and Water Authority only issue permits in the water control area which is essentially the Alice Springs residential area. (I know this because I obtained a permit to put a water bore on my block). There are no fees and no restrictions on sinking a bore. The idea of the permits is so that the PAWA can keep tabs on the number of bores, in the event that in future times the artesian basin is over used, they can place restrictions or meters on them. At this stage, there are no restrictions in the Alice Springs district.
Also geologically, Iwupataka is on the other side of the range and on a different non-connected basin.
Geological map link here that shows what I say is true and him to be an outright liar..... www.geoscience.gov.au...
Note the fault lines that divide the geology. His location sits on top of igneous rock and sandstone. Pine Gap area is limestone. Look at the above map for reference.
The Amadeus basin is prehistoric water and of gigantic proportions. It does not replenish/refill. His location sits on top of the Roe Creek basin which refills after heavy rains, and occasionally dries out in between.



He also said...... " In 2006 I was picked up by the Aust Federal police on the Larapinta drive whilst driving home to my place, ....""
There were no Australian Federal Police in Alice Springs until 2009. They work at the Alice Springs Airport only. (You can probably find that on google when the Federal Govt put them there as anti-terrorist measures.) Security at Pine Gap is the Australian Protective Service. Outside of Pine Gap they have the same arrest powers as Joe Citizen, so they are hardly likely to be patrolling along Larapinta Drive some 20 or so kilometres away.


He also said......
"Now back in the mid 70's one of my brothers (not the ones in the hunt episode) was a driver for a freight company that was contracted to bring frieght from down south.
One sunday his boss called him up to pick up frieght from the Alice Springs airport.
The usual truck that was spposed to bring frieght from south was stuck down the road at a flooded Finke river no way of crossing it.
My bro was met at the A/Springs airport tarmac and was escorted to the american c130 galaxy aircraft where 2 trailer loads of salt was hooked up to his rig."

Another couple lies that can easily be disproved. This is a desert... In 1974 there was heavy rains. It was quite some years before it happened again like that. Also, until 1985, the highway from Alice Springs to Port Augusta in South Australia was nothing more than a dirt track. If the road was cut at the Finke River (about 90 kilometres south), he would not have even got that far since there would be easily another 40 or so floodways between there and the South Australian border. That is not even adding to the fact that in those days, sufficient rain to flood the Finke was more than enough to turn that dirt track into soup and utterly impassable.

The other is that nobody is allowed on the tarmac except those with the security clearance and ID tag or of course passengers to and from a plane. There is no way in heck that a driver could get a random phone call and be allowed on to the tarmac. It takes up to 6 weeks to get the security clearance.


And this one...... "I was told later that the salt was probably used toi break down nuclear waste. "
Any physics/chemistry student would know this very basic piece of information. Salt has absolutely no effect on radioactivity.

reply to post by NTresident


Thanks again NT

Just wondering is there any possible chance ( even the slightest) you or anyone else for that matter haven't seen all of the base. What I am saying is there is a lot of conspiracy theories about it, could you or even some who work there only have permission to see what they want you to see.

Reason why I am asking I have been following Maxwelldeamons posts and I think he is in a government security job thingy and lets a few things slip here and there, you have to read past a bit but he still drops a few hints

just wondering

take care

Wal

reply to post by auswally


The only areas I have not been into are the private residences of single short term employees who live on base. I did not go into the Administration building but could see through the windows. Just like any other office.
Of the Tech Building, I could not wander about but from where I stood could see the lay out. I saw no elevators and the only stairs go up into into the ceiling/roof area. It bore no difference in appearance to perhaps a stock market office. It is a very sterile work place, sterile meaning that nobody talks to each other.

If there were to be other levels (not that there are) there would not be many people working in any underground levels since the floor space of the Tech Building easily accommodates the 600 or so that work in that building on their rotating shifts.

I did not go into the maintenance workshop but could see in it.

I did not go into the ladies toilet either.. LOL

Originally posted by zorgon

Originally posted by ArMaP
In fact they look like artificial hills made with all the dirt moved by the construction of the palace.

They ARE artificial hills ArMaP... the point was addressing Matyas' comment about world leaders using sacred geometry.. Saddam wanted to be the new 'Marduk'

As to Pine gap... there are also THESE

Those are the three of the five bores that supply Alice Springs town water. Look closely and you can see the others.