Confirmed C-130J contract for Canadian Forces!

Finally! After much talk and run around a contract has been signed and now the planes can enter the production line! Its been a long and winding road to get here and in a sense we are more or less back where we were 2 years ago.



The Liberal government had chosen to purchase 16 or more new C-130Js on 22 Nov. 2005. It would of been a $4B-to-$5B deal – including the obiligatory 20-year support / maintenance contract. This Liberal plan was denounced by the Opposition which claimed the contest to be unfairly skewed in favour of the C-130J. Within the week, Paul Martin's Liberal government fell in the wake of a non-confidence vote.

Move forward 2 years and 3 months to Jan 2008. And Canada signs a $1.4 billion contract for 17 Lockheed Martin C-130J-30 tactical airlifters. Deliveries are now set to begin in the fourth quarter of 2010. We are at the limit of airframe lifetime with our C-130H and some have already been grounded. Too little too late I think. The contract was signed in late December, with the first aircraft to be delivered within 36 months and the last within 60 months.

The C-130Js are the second of three new airlift procurements announced by Canada in 2006. Under the first procurement, for strategic transports, Boeing was awarded a $869 million contract in February 2007 for four C-17s. The first aircraft was delivered in August and the last will arrive this year.

The one positive or thing that is making me wonder is how did the price for the 17 aircraft go down from 4 billion to 1.4 billion? My only thought is the old proposal was $3.2B was for the aircraft themselves – the rest, $1.7B, was for a 20-year ' In-Service Support ' contract. So whats the support contract for the new aircraft if they only cost $1.7 billion?

www.flightglobal.com...

Anyways after all the complaning at least its happened and with the hints and work going into the chinook purchase and now the C-130Js and the CC-177 its about dang time our forces had the transport the needed.

[edit on 17-1-2008 by Canada_EH]

On further investigation with the now updated DND site the 1.4 billion contract has a new twist.

The purchase contract for 17 C-130J Hercules aircraft is valued at approximately $1.4 billion U.S., with an additional amount to be added in 2009 for 20 years of in-service support.

With that coming to light the actual contract cost will be closer to 3.1 billion in the end if the 1.7 billion support contract is around the same as in 2005. The next links are from the DND and Air Force websites. The DND site also out lines the other programs that the goverment is moving forward on with the chinooks and also tank replacement.

news.gc.ca...

www.airforce.forces.gc.ca...

[edit on 17-1-2008 by Canada_EH]

Interesting how a 4 billion dollar contract can be announced for the Canadian forces and no comment is made but a review of unpurchased planes fills 3 pages

Really I'm not frustrated at all

I think the issue here is that the A400 and other options was a 2 year old discussion but the issues of airframe life and the fact that these planes won't get here for 2 years and every airframe of the E & H models is almost o is 40 000 hrs and the 3 have already been grounded at their max 50 000 airframe lifetime.

Anyways anything to generate some sort of discussion

great news indeed
new aircraft are always great news.
your right the a400 is still sometime off but fits perfectly
between the hercs and the globemater III

new more capable hercs needed or new design based on hercs

[edit on 28-1-2008 by Jezza]

reply to post by Canada_EH


Canadians Forces flying in non-obsolete air-worthy aircraft that Canada owns? Um, that's not very normal. It seems every procurement delay gets more expensive... it's about GD time. Now if our troops weren't spread so thin and not-stressed over re-ups and with recruits in the pipe we'd be golden.

Where will we be in a year? I guess our politicians will "lead" us.

Cheers 'EH, love your work,

Vic

reply to post by Canada_EH


I think it's closer to a $5 billion contract. $3.2B for the planes and $1.7B for the maintenance.

Anyways, it's about time we got some new planes. Shame it took so long to get it done.

The Hercs will fit nicely with the C-17's (I think you have 2 in service with 2 more on order)

The question is is it enough?

Id be very suprised if the Canada buys the A400. Pratt and Whitney Canada really got screwed on the engine selection for the project.

Given the C-17 in inventory, would they need it anyway?

Look on the bright side Canada EH, at least all the "interesting problems" that Lockmart had thoughtfully built into the J model will have been rectified by the perseverance of the RAF, RAAF and US services. I was talking to a RAAF engineer recently who was on the original batch of guys to convert to the J model. They were doing a ground run at RAAF Richmond and did a full flap cycle extend and retract with all four "turning and burning", when upon fully retracting all four engines shut down by themselves. They all turned and looked at the Lockmart engineer rep who glanced back with a puzzled expression. All he could manage to say was, "well it's never done that before..."

LEE.

reply to post by thebozeian


Hahaha oh man. Classic Boz that story will become classic now.
Yeah the issue that you have had with the J model and the trouble shooting there is a nice change for Canada not to do it as we got more then our fair share of it in testing and development of the F/A-18 when it was converted for operation as the CF-188.

As was mentioned about the closer to 5 billion number for the deal thats is probably closer indeed to the end price. The initial deal for the aircraft is relatively cheap compared to the order for spares and support.

ACP-T would require 17 new Hercules-replacement aircraft at a cost of $4.9B. Some $3.2B was for the aircraft themselves – the rest, $1.7B

I'm assuming this was your source for the pricing of the 5 billion? good site and more the likely is what will be reflected in the actual contracts.
www.sfu.ca...

Wow i love these planes. Always good at an airshow not even to mention them in actual service. Haha Lockmart, thats lockheeds new name!
Lockmart: Satisfying all your aviation needs... Lame music in the background. Costly but still it is gonna be worth it. A nice little squadron of those flying around. Now just fit them with the dillon gatling gun.... You'd have the best plane in the world! Well transport wise.

Deny ignorance

Semoro

Canada, I'm not familiar wiith this story, what was the rival for the order, or was it a case of just whether to buy or not to buy new Hercules'?

I only ask because I was trying to think what the rival might have been, A400M is quite a lot bigger (and most air forces are going for both anyway) as well not even having flown yet, while the C-27J would be clearly too small.

If it was just a case of not buying anything and making do with C-130H's well thank god that wasn't chosen. I would say the C-130J is the obvious choice so what was the problem?

reply to post by Semoro


Airbus had submitted the A400 to both the C-17 position and the C-130J position to attempt to get either or of the contracts and convince the DND and CF that the plane fit either role. Already you can see the issues with the proposal and the fact that while the A400 was suited to do either the tactical or strategic role of airlift it didn't/Airbus failed to show case how it could excel in one more then the other.

Out side of the role issue Airbus fail to convince the DND to wait for the A400 program to wrap up etc and on the DNDs end part of the official reasoning for not taking the A400 was that no test aircraft was able to be certified and available for test flying.

When Canada makes a request for a aircraft we usually don't have a lot of time for a company to develop and test a plane since we need it in the near future. Sure the government then usually screws it up and then turns down both planes and helos that we do need and ends up going back to them in 5 years but when we finally get around to it all the more time has been lost and the aircraft are needed even quicker then before.

Its crappy that Airbus got ruled out for some of these simple reasons but at the same time I don't want to see my air force have to use the same planes for the next 5-10 years because of delays in the A400 program.

reply to post by Canada_EH


A400m has also been offered to australia
and still being considered down the track foe future
replacement of the h series hercs