When is it time for Civil war?

Join me, Dec 15, 2008, for the first time in the West, the "stoning of the devil" (by Christians), you know where. Think I'm kidding? Ask around. ---------------PC

[edit on 15-1-2008 by pc is here]

I really have to laugh at some of the posts in this thread. It's not so much a mocking or arrogant laugh, rather it's a sad, frustrated laugh. Things continue to get worse by the day, our freedoms are taken from us, our elections are rigged, our money is ruined, our resources and land are sold off and our homes are taken from us. Given the history of America one would think this would have led to some sort of domestic unrest but apparently this isn't the case.

No, instead of banding together to take a stand like true Americans most of us would rather sit around and wait. We tell ourselves it's been worse before, we say we'd need some sort of motivating event, we say it won't accomplish anything. What are we waiting for?

Are we all waiting for things to get beyond the point of repair? Do you really intend on waiting until we find ourselves left with absolutely no recourse except violent action?

A lot of posters in this thread have said they'd need hard evidence before advocating any form of revolution. Well I'd like to pose a question to you, what possible reason could you give for sitting around and letting things get worse?

When we reach the point at which you find yourself motivated to action it may be far too late. Time truly is running out for American freedom and liberty. Our government has already announced it's intent to silence the internet, to quiet any dissident voice and to arrest any citizen for any arbitrary reason.

We already have a police state and a dictatorship. Our government ignores our wishes, our politicians act solely in their own interests. We already have random checkpoints and forced bag checks in subways. We have constant surveillance. We have total Federal control over what once was a Union of independent states. We have absolutely no say in what our country does anymore. Hell, most of us are even afraid to be discussing this subject right this second!

So what, exactly, should we all be waiting for??

I'm not necessarily advocating violent action but I think it's completely clear that something must be done and now.

The Declaration of Independence
When in the Course of human events it becomes necessary for one people to dissolve the political bands which have connected them with another and to assume among the powers of the earth, the separate and equal station to which the Laws of Nature and of Nature's God entitle them, a decent respect to the opinions of mankind requires that they should declare the causes which impel them to the separation.

We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty and the pursuit of Happiness. — That to secure these rights, Governments are instituted among Men, deriving their just powers from the consent of the governed, — That whenever any Form of Government becomes destructive of these ends, it is the Right of the People to alter or to abolish it, and to institute new Government, laying its foundation on such principles and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their Safety and Happiness. Prudence, indeed, will dictate that Governments long established should not be changed for light and transient causes; and accordingly all experience hath shewn that mankind are more disposed to suffer, while evils are sufferable than to right themselves by abolishing the forms to which they are accustomed. But when a long train of abuses and usurpations, pursuing invariably the same Object evinces a design to reduce them under absolute Despotism, it is their right, it is their duty, to throw off such Government, and to provide new Guards for their future security. — Such has been the patient sufferance of these Colonies; and such is now the necessity which constrains them to alter their former Systems of Government. The history of the present King of Great Britain is a history of repeated injuries and usurpations, all having in direct object the establishment of an absolute Tyranny over these States. To prove this, let Facts be submitted to a candid world.

Our founders were spot on even back then, They then just as we now will come to understand that history does repeat itself...

They tried to warn us in our very founding documents, the thing is, very few Americans actually bother reading them and actually taking them into account as to whats going on, After all this is AMERICA land of the free home of the brave, The American dream where everything and anything is possible and America is the greatest nation to ever exist.

These usurpations could never happen in AMERICA right?

Since our conception we have all been systematically brainwashed with some of the thickest propaganda nationalist BS ever to be conceived.

and it worked.


Ignorance is bliss, most are content to live there lives knowing something isn't quite right, but still go on never questioning the machine.

And even though they know something is off, they won't allow you to destroy
there preconceived notion as to what they wish to accept as real and true even though something inside tells them its all a lie.

they will understand one day even though we spent our lives trying to warn them we will be long gone taken away and they will be left alone trying to understand how it came to be, and how they didn't see it coming.

When the Nazis came for the communists,
I remained silent;
I was not a communist.

When they locked up the social democrats,
I remained silent;
I was not a social democrat.

When they came for the trade unionists,
I did not speak out;
I was not a trade unionist.

When they came for the Jews,
I remained silent;
I wasn't a Jew.

When they came for me,
there was no one left to speak out.

[edit on 15-1-2008 by C0le]

reply to post by C0le


I absolutely second everything you say 100%. I couldn't have said it better myself, you get a star from me. You and I will be in the camps while others are still waiting for something to motivate them.

reply to post by guyopitz

Im a Ron Paul supporter 110 percent and I see electoral fraud going on robbing him of his votes and giving them to Mccain or Hillary.

First of all, this is only the primaries, so people vote for one party group of candidates or the other. There is no way Clinton is taking votes from Paul then...Paul is a Republican, so if there is any hanky panky going on regarding lost Paul votes, it's right there with the Republicans. in other words, if Dr. Paul were to be robbed, those votes could not be given to Hillary...now if somehow theoretically she was robbing votes, she couldn't very well take them from McCain or Paul either. Make sence.

That and Exit polls have not been very favorable to Mr. Paul. Just because your guy is not winning doesn't mean it's automatically voter fraud. I would be more concerned with debates not allowing his or other's like Kucinich's measage to get out, or the Diabold voter machines owned by a company that is 100% GOP contributors... But if your going to point fingers, make sure they are pointed in the right direction.

I believe it was Benjamin Franklin who said the greatest expression of freedom is revolution and for freedom to survive their should be a revolution every generation. Or something like that.

I have often wondered what it would take to motivate the general public to revolution. Individually, many talk a good game. Sadly, these individuals never seem to group into appreciable numbers.
When Bush/Cheney retain power somehow (modern War Powers Act?) after the "election", and marshall law is officially and openly declared, it will be too late.
The founding fathers are puking in their graves at what invertabrates the American people have become... maybe We The People deserve what we're about to get.

[edit on 16/1/08 by cbianchi513]

reply to post by SoLaR513


Jefferson:

"God forbid we should ever be twenty years without such a rebellion.
The people cannot be all, and always, well informed. The part which is
wrong will be discontented, in proportion to the importance of the facts
they misconceive. If they remain quiet under such misconceptions,
it is lethargy, the forerunner of death to the public liberty. ...
And what country can preserve its liberties, if it's rulers are not
warned from time to time, that this people preserve the spirit of
resistance? Let them take arms. The remedy is to set them right as
to the facts, pardon and pacify them. What signify a few lives lost
in a century or two? The tree of liberty must be refreshed from
time to time, with the blood of patriots and tyrants.
It is its natural manure."

And it's not just who is getting the votes that you have to worry about with these Diebold "voting" machines-- it's also what-- like passing measures to raise taxes, etc. Just think what they can do with state-wide propositions and local issues.

I recall Bev Harris (blackboxvoting.org) speaking in an interview after the 2004 elections about a tiny town that overwhelmingly passed a tax increase on themselves. People in town got together for a town meeting and couldn't find one voter who voted to pass the measure. But it stood.

reply to post by thisguyrighthere


Jefferson must have seen the future because he nailed it. We have become lethargic over saturated by our excesses. We have become complacent to our role as human cattle and soon there will be a slaughter and what will we do then? Lay down and take it? We talk a big talk but we have been brainwashed to the point of swallowing whatever pill they hand us. In not so many words: WE ARE SCREWED!

reply to post by Shadowflux


OK. Since you've got the motivation. Let's say as an experiment, we annoint you as fearless leader of the revolution. Now oh great leader give us something useful to do that might get us closer to fixing this mess? What are your instructions?

Personally I'm mindful of the scripture in the Bible that reads thusly,

4 For the weapons of our warfare are not carnal but mighty in God for pulling down strongholds, 5 casting down arguments and every high thing that exalts itself against the knowledge of God, bringing every thought into captivity to the obedience of Christ,

It's the pen is mightier than the sword argument, in part.

reply to post by SevenThunders


I've never really seen myself as the leader of anything since micromanagement drives me nuts. But since you asked I do have an idea i've been working on.

I call it the "Where's Osama?" Campaign. It's basically pretty simple, there would be tshirts, stickers, posters etc that can be bought at non-profit prices (i.e. just to cover the printing) that simply read "Where is Osama?" in big black Impact font letters on white background. Each sticker and t-shirt would also have a URL to something like www.WhereisOsama.com wherein we would have articles stating things that are quite obvious but have the ultimate intention of causing the reader to walk away with unanswered questions. I had hoped this would motivate people to seek the answers to these simple questions.

For example, one article, probably the main article, would simply explain how the War on Terror was created in response to 9/11 which, we were told, was perpetrated by Al Qaeda which is led by Osama Bin Laden who was in Afghanistan. It would go on to illustrate the fact that it's been years since 9/11 and every month we hear less and less about Osama, Al Qaeda and Afghanistan. We haven't caught Osama and we've pretty much abandoned Afghanistan. The main point is "What happened to Osama and Al Qaeda?" Why are we in Iraq? Why is the WOT about to incorporate Iran? Why does the WOT justify so much domestic security legislation that is eroding our rights?

My main goal with this campaign is to plant questions in people's heads that will hopefully pop up when they are being fed propaganda from the mass media and politicians.

Overall it would basically be a viral type campaign. We could run Google Adsense on the site itself to pay for the hosting fees and stuff and open our own Cafe Press account which would allow people to print out the material at discounted prices. I'd personally place stickers and posters all over New York City and help with the website, in fact I may even have hosting space right now.

It's an idea that's still in it's infancy and I would hope it would incorporate more than just the War on Terror and Osama but continue to cover every topic of concern for us. What do you think?

reply to post by Shadowflux

In theory, this idea is great! Sign me up for 2 adult large, and one infant t-shirt.
Would it really work? Not so sure about that one, as it could be considered "anti-war" and even possibly treason or sedition under the Patriot Act. Those domestic rights that have been gradually eroding include the First Amendment of our beloved Constitution. I'm not worried about the feds knocking on my door, I'm worried about never hearing the knock... Just not waking up some fine morning.
By the way, we are still fighting (and dying) in Afghanistan. We didn't "give up".

reply to post by Shadowflux


OK that's interesting. I like the subtlety of it. Of course as soon as you imply 'conspiracy' most people are programmed to go glassy eyed and then call you a nut. If, however, you can get someone to think a little bit about what's going on maybe they will stop voting for Clinton/Bush globalist stooge.

Another idea is to start writing letters to the editor or visiting your state and fed. rep.s offices every now and then, etc. etc.

I like that Idea about www.wheresosama.com

If you need a contributing artist I could make some stuff for the site.
like my photoshopped 'Debate'

guyopitz.deviantart.com...
click the image to see it fullsize. the bush/devil's wings are made of oil wells.

I'm glad everyone liked my idea so much. I thought it was simple enough to be fairly effective since the ultimate goal is pretty simple. I don't want it to be too conspiratorial, I just want to plant questions in people's heads, logical questions. Questions that would leave people second guessing the propaganda their fed by the media. I think now is a pretty good time to start it with the elections going on. The Iraq war is going to be a debate point for the candidates and I want to bring the origin of the WOT back into light.

I also want the site to have good information, I want it to have the constitution and a good understandable explanation of the Bill of Rights. I suppose there should also be a news section where we can keep the public informed of current events such as the recent Thought Crime Bill. The website itself will probably either be Drupal or Wordpress so it will be easy enough for anyone to update. I can start working on it but I can't afford the domain registration right now. Also the hosting space I have needs to have it's domain changed since it's from a prior webmaster gig that never went anywhere.

I could definitely use some help from anyone that would like to. I suppose you can U2U me or email me at [email protected] to let me know what you'd like to do. I can work on the sticker graphics and stuff but I'd also appreciate any help in that regard as well. I suppose I need to flesh out a few of these ideas a little more.

As far as this whole campaign going against the Patriot Act or the new Thought Crime Bill I don't care. We're not doing anything illegal except enacting our constitutional rights. It's my belief that these rights were meant to be enacted and not meant to be put on a pedestal and treated as some vague ideal. This is America, this is what is supposed to happen. We the people are responsible for our freedoms and liberties because the government has made it abundantly clear that they care little for them. All that we see happening now is exactly parallel to the motivating factors behind the founding of this country. We have a duty as citizens to abide by the laws of this nation but when those laws cease to serve the public good and attack the very foundation of our country then it is time to take action. Violent action will quickly fail as we are outnumbered and out gunned, information will be our weapon and I believe something as simple as "Where's Osama?" will work perfectly in todays high speed, viral marketing world. My hope is that it will stick in people's heads and lead them to do their own thinking and their own research and ultimately realize the truth of what is happening.

I have been thinking about this for a long time. What we have been doing all over the world for fifty years is coming home to roost. And now if anyone wants to fight back they have us in their 'net' their 'web'. Did you know all those patriot groups that sign up and get a uniform and go shoot their guns on saturdays will be the very first to go to the fema camps? The state militias were created for that very reason. And do we really have any idea what sort of weapons those devils have come up with in the last few decades. Why are those planes spraying us every single day all over the world.?(except china) Our only hope is that the people who are the nuts and bolts of the final push to martial law will not have the stomach for it. They even thought of that by giving kids increasingly violent games to play. Maybe if two million people camped out in washington dc next fall for a few months they'd get the idea. Don't know. vote for President Ron Paul.

Originally posted by dbates

Originally posted by guyopitz
I see more homeless on the streets every day. I know its because this war has run our economy into the ground. I think if I were in their shoes, Id start chucking molotov cocktails into government buildings.

People aren't homeless because they can't find work. Most homeless people are alcholics, drug-addicts, or have mental issues. If they have a bottle of vodka, they're not going to waste it by throwing it at a building. They'll just drink it.

Ok I know you are the mod here, but dam I was this close to being homeless. I do not drink, take drugs, or even want handouts. I have an illness called MS. I lost everything. I had no where to go. Its a good thing that I got family. I got support through my congressmans office and from my friends. After 3 years of being told no you can not have SSDI, I finally was awared my insurance. Imagine 3 years of no income. Even though they did award me back pay, this did not fix the problem. The problem is they decide not you. You could be right about something and still they the government will tell you "nope sorry". By the way I trained the NG in desert warfare and proudly served my country in the AF right after the vietnam war. I was training the NG up and down the east coast of the USA before and after 911. Good to have the FM-25 manual around if you where to ever think about a civil war. You can get a copy from your NG office near you. It shows what they do in combat situations. How to do this and that. I will not dwell more on this manual. Too much info already given. But yeah, it would be pointless to start a gun battle with your NG. I know I have trained them. Stealth in great numbers, more like a gurilla war, would be more of a avantage. But thats just me. I see that the people seem to agree to disagree. So united we stand , divided we fall. I owe it to my government, even though they put me through hell. I still uphold the constitution. As I am forever dammed to, since I have given an oath to do so. But if you take into account that that it was null and void in the 1930's then its give us liberty or give us death. Cause if so said is true then it is just a dam piece of paper. Like our money.

it's never time for civil war...

reconciliation, compromise, non-violent resistance, etc

you have many, many options to exhaust... and, if none of them work, by the time you've exhausted them all, you and those you were opposing may have something new to unite against

reply to post by zman


Sorry to hear about the MS. I'm just starting up with my MS symptoms. It's utterly debilitating. For me, the brain fog, major headaches, muscle pains, tingling sensations, memory loss etc. Of course I don't really believe in MS. I believe I have an infection of a cell wall deficient bacteria, probably Lyme disease (borrelias bergdorferi). The bugs can hide in your nerve cells causing your immune system to attack them, hence so called 'autoimmune' disease.

Have you been checked for Lyme disease? Well so have I. I come up negative as many do, but all the symptoms are there. Did you know that many have been cured of MS by treating the infection? Some take antibiotics, others are on a more strict antibiotic protocol called the Marshall protocol. I'm currently taking a remarkable supplement called MMS.
miraclemineral.org...
It's cheap and relatively easy to take. There are also a number of other treatments such as hyperbaric oxygen, intravenous vitamin C, and ultra-violet blood irradiation. You know your treatment is doing something if symptoms get temporarily worse for a while.

The class of cell wall deficient bacteria that cause these nightmares have been developed in part as a biowarfare program. You may have gotten your disease in the military since it appears that many who served have been coming down with similar symptoms.

I blame this state of affairs in part on the nefarious actions of some of the elite we are talking about here. It's just a shame that we not only have dictators running things behind the scenes, but they are completely immoral and evil.