Jewish Messiah will Be the Anti-Christ

Since Jews didn't accept Jesus as the messiah does anyone else think the messiah that the Jews will say/think is the messiah, Christians will say is the Anti-Christ? Could the second coming of Jesus and Anti-Christ thing just be there to misdirect people from the real Jewish Messiah?

Originally posted by Shawn B.
Since Jews didn't accept Jesus as the messiah does anyone else think the messiah that the Jews will say/think is the messiah, Christians will say is the Anti-Christ? Could the second coming of Jesus and Anti-Christ thing just be there to misdirect people from the real Jewish Messiah?

It is prophesied in Zachariah (I think- somewhere in the Old Testament) that two "shepherds" will come. Jesus was the first but they will reject Him (this happened) but another will come, the Antichrist, who the Jews (and world) will accept as a whole. Of course there will be dissenters at the time but for the most part, many will accept the "wicked shepherd" after rejecting the "good shepherd."

In the New Testament, Jesus again warned the unbelieving Jews of His time this would happen. He said although He was rejected, another will come that the people will accept. Not sure how this will play out but I think they will accept the Antichrist for a little while as their Messiah but after he breaks the peace treaty, many will open their eyes and see.

It is interesting to see exactly how many religions are looking for their "Messiah." Even Christian preterists expect the Second Coming to occur without any tribulation, Antichrist, and all the other "end time" events. The only people who know to reject this supposed person and wait for the "real thing" are Christians who see Biblical prophecy in the futurist sense. The resounding warning is to not be decieved when you see this individual.

This would be the second most likely playout of the events.

Though I feel it safe to assume the antichrist will come from the nation of Islam.

Do Jews even keep track of the living bloodline of David now?

You'd think they would since they say the Messiah will come from it.

[edit on 14-1-2008 by Shawn B.]

Originally posted by Incarnated
This would be the second most likely playout of the events.

Though I feel it safe to assume the antichrist will come from the nation of Islam.

What do you base that on?

If anyone is looking for an 'antichrist', it's Bush

reply to post by Shawn B.


all the tribes of isreal split and went into all parts of the world
in revelation it talks about the 12 tribes

the tribe of daniel isnt listed as being the chosen 144,000

so what happened to his tribe is the real question

Originally posted by mattguy404
What do you base that on?

I can't answer their opinion with certainty except for the fact many hold this view for a few reasons:

1) The descriptions of the Antichrist in the Bible fit the description of the expected Islamic leader uncannily well.

2) The Antichrist is supposed to come from the Revived Roman Empire (so many suspect either the modern European Union or a Near Middle East country since some territory was formerly part of the Roman Empire)

3) (Something I pay little attention to) Nostradamus predicted the Antichrist would be a Muslim.

Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
reply to post by Shawn B.

 

all the tribes of isreal split and went into all parts of the world
in revelation it talks about the 12 tribes

the tribe of daniel isnt listed as being the chosen 144,000

so what happened to his tribe is the real question

Do you mean in Revelations? It didn't list any specific tribe. It just said that many Jews then millions and millions to many to count of people would also be there.

[edit on 14-1-2008 by Shawn B.]

reply to post by mattguy404


Biblical and other scriptual propercies, also other propercies such as from nostramdamus and others.

reply to post by AshleyD


And, let us not just point at the Muslum teachers as perfect evidence.

They teach that Jesus wasn't the messiah, but just "another profit".

The very Term of ANTI CHRIST is captured right in that teaching of theirs.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by mattguy404
What do you base that on?

3) (Something I pay little attention to) Nostradamus predicted the Antichrist would be a Muslim.

OK... I won't argue with the story line there. I'm not Muslim, but I have read and learnt much about Islam (I like reading about all religions, even though I describe myself as an atheist!) and they do hold Jesus in high regard.

Would the religious connotations of any person really relate to their status as an 'antichrist' though? It's a highly hypothetical question, but I would have thought any form of antichrist would prefer to take form as a Christian; what better disguise could there be?

reply to post by Shawn B.


it lists all 12 tirbes of isreal well excpet daniel's


4 And I heard the number of them which were sealed: and there were sealed an hundred and forty and four thousand of all the tribes of the children of Israel.

5 Of the tribe of Juda were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Reuben were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Gad were sealed twelve thousand.

6 Of the tribe of Aser were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Nephthalim were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Manasses were sealed twelve thousand.

7 Of the tribe of Simeon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Levi were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Issachar were sealed twelve thousand.

8 Of the tribe of Zabulon were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Joseph were sealed twelve thousand. Of the tribe of Benjamin were sealed twelve thousand.

reply to post by Incarnated


nostradamus isnt alwatys correct, so why is it safe to say that this quatrain would be?

Originally posted by mattguy404
...and they do hold Jesus in high regard.

Agreed. Yes they do. But they see Jesus only as a prophet whose ministry was later perverted by Christians when they mistook Him for the Son of God. They deny the crucifixion and resurrection- they believe Jesus ascended bodily into Heaven and never atone for mankind's sin. In Islamic eschatology, they believe Jesus will return with a figure known as "Al Mahdi," admit to Christianity being false, and set up Islam as the world religion.

Once you know this, it almost seems this is what Jesus was warning about in detail. He said many false Christs will come in His name but alludes to one in particular. We are told not to believe this pseudo-Jesus who looks like a lamb (a symbol of Jesus) but speaks like the dragon (Satan/Antichrist).

If you pay close attention, right after Jesus issues His warnings to the end times and the false Messiah, out of nowhere He says "Heaven and Earth will pass away but My words will by no means pass away." It's so out of place. What was He talking about and why did He throw this prophecy in with the warning of this false Messiah?

Because one of the things Islam believes the Al Mahdi will do, is "discover" the "original" texts of the Hebrew and Christian Bibles in an effort to "prove" our Holy books were distorted and only Islam is the true religion. It almost seems Jesus is saying don't believe this deception because my teachings are what they are, my story is what it is, and I am who I say I am. Don't believe this "discovery" because my words will not pass away even in light of this deception.

Would the religious connotations of any person really relate to their status as an 'antichrist' though?

Do you mean will the Al Mahdi claim to be the Bible's Antichrist? No, I don't think so. They also believe in a "Dajjal" which to them will be the Antichrist. It is so twisted. Basically, everyone the Bible says will be good, Islam says will be bad and everyone the Bible warns against, Islam says to look and hope for. I'm almost convinced this "Dajjal" will actually be a true Christian while their "Messiah" (the Al Mahdi) and the this psuedo-Jesus that appears as his sidekick will actually be the Antichrist and False Prophet.

but I would have thought any form of antichrist would prefer to take form as a Christian; what better disguise could there be?

Some think this is how it will happen with the counterfeit Jesus. Or that the corrupt church will merge with Islam to make one big fake religion that everyone is forced to worship or face death.

If you read the Bible and all the descriptions of the Antichrist then read the Islam Hadith that describes the Al Mahdi, it is almost like they purposely took the prophecies concerning the Antichrist and made them describe the future Islamic "savior." Ask a Muslim and they will swear to you I am wrong- that the Al Mahdi and his Jesus side-kick are the "good guys." But just like the Antichrist and false prophet of the Bible, they force everyone to convert to Islam while killing those who don't, rule a one world government, perform miracles, specifically target Jews and Christians who do not covert, etc. etc.

Originally posted by mattguy404
Would the religious connotations of any person really relate to their status as an 'antichrist' though? It's a highly hypothetical question, but I would have thought any form of antichrist would prefer to take form as a Christian; what better disguise could there be?

The "Antichrist" being isn't a consparitor. Nostradamus discribes Hitler as the "second antichrist". Hitler didn't understand he was a tool of the evil. Hitler believe he was "the chosen".

It's the nature of such a being to self will the ideology of them being "the chosen one" rather then to have the understanding of themselves being a tool of evil.

Originally posted by MurderCityDevil
reply to post by Incarnated

 

nostradamus isnt alwatys correct, so why is it safe to say that this quatrain would be?

actually, it is you who isn't always correct.

Nostradamus is always correct.

It's men whom think they can foresee percieve the meaning of the future through the prophicies of nostradamus that get it wrong.

There is a simple understanding for seeing the real meaning in future context through the prophicies of such as nostradamus.

First you must understand people tend to see things they are biased to look for, it is only through the stripping of all such biases and to view such a writing with a clear, open and honest mind's eye where the writings come alive.

Nostradams isn't wrong. The viewer "you" is the one that mispercieves the meanings.

Originally posted by AshleyD

Some think this is how it will happen with the counterfeit Jesus. Or that the corrupt church will merge with Islam to make one big fake religion that everyone is forced to worship or face death.

Well, how do you know both aren't fake religions? Seems like both only got to where they are by massive bloodshed and fear.

Originally posted by AshleyD



If you pay close attention, right after Jesus issues His warnings to the end times and the false Messiah, out of nowhere He says "Heaven and Earth will pass away but My words will by no means pass away." It's so out of place. What was He talking about and why did He throw this prophecy in with the warning of this false Messiah?

He said that, but did he say that we'd know what his words were? How can we be sure we know what his exact words were?

Originally posted by Shawn B.
Well, how do you know both aren't fake religions? Seems like both only got to where they are by massive bloodshed and fear.

If you want my honest opinion (and I'm hesitant to give it because I don't want to offend anyone) then it is this:

I think Islam, the ecumenical movement, and even parts of the Catholic church are all fake religions. Islam has some Christian and Jewish tenets but in a very twisted fashion and is diametrically opposed to what Christianity is based on, The E.M. wants to unite all faiths, and the Catholic church has become so distorted by its compromises over the years, including many pagan beliefs and man made doctrine that is constantly changing and opposed to the teachings of the Bible they claim to follow.

Another view of mine is that there really is no "Christian faith." I call myself a Christian because that is how my beliefs are known but in reality, I think all true Christians are Jewish in terms of religion. We accept their foretold Messiah as being fulfilled by Jesus and believe the Jewish law was fulfilled in Jesus' death and resurrection although the principle was not abolished. The term "Christianity" actually came a little while later- originally we were all known as "Jews."

All Christianity really is, is a fulfillment and acceptance of Jewish prophecies, their Messiah, and law.

In Revelation, it even mentions "those who claim to be Jews but are not." Why is that? Because it was talking about the "Jews" as a whole who did not believe their own Messiah had come. Although the term "Christian" is mentioned in Acts, it was not yet widely used to describe the new sect that arose from Judaism. We're all Jews by religion who accepted the Christ... we're just not Orthodox Jews.

So, I'm a Jew!

It would seem that regardless of origins, he or it supposedly will speak many different languages and even perform alleged miracles. I haven't noticed anyone like this as of yet. Maybe he or it will be an android like cp3o or Data? Maybe it will have a jewish accent and do comedy like Mel Brooks?