Obey your government says God

I have struggled with this over the years, because I have always been a skeptic of government. It is fairly obvious the government is secretive, and does not always have our best interests at hand.

On the other hand, I am a believer. I find myself caught between two worlds. One of power and authority, and this one where I am without power and authority. So what does a believer do or think?

I used to have hatred towards government, because I am under their authority and what they do affects me. When it rubs you the wrong way, it seems natural to get offended or even angry.

The bible commands believers that civil authority is pre-ordained by God for us to be under, in short if we live under President Bush or Saddam Hussein, makes no difference. In either case, it was meant to be:

Romans Chapter 13:1-6
1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established. The authorities that exist have been established by God. 2Consequently, he who rebels against the authority is rebelling against what God has instituted, and those who do so will bring judgment on themselves. 3For rulers hold no terror for those who do right, but for those who do wrong. Do you want to be free from fear of the one in authority? Then do what is right and he will commend you. 4For he is God's servant to do you good. But if you do wrong, be afraid, for he does not bear the sword for nothing. He is God's servant, an agent of wrath to bring punishment on the wrongdoer. 5Therefore, it is necessary to submit to the authorities, not only because of possible punishment but also because of conscience. 6This is also why you pay taxes, for the authorities are God's servants, who give their full time to governing. 7Give everyone what you owe him: If you owe taxes, pay taxes; if revenue, then revenue; if respect, then respect; if honor, then honor.

No where in the New Testament does it command that we should rebel against government.

There are two sides to this coin. Some believe that this scripture originated to placate government anxiety towards Christians, that we were not really competing with civil authority. Still others believe that it is only useful until government steps out of bounds, then the people should rise up and overthrow the government.

I personally feel that it means exactly what it means and that we should obey civil authority until the end, for I feel that the authorities present are placed there as servants to carry out the mission of God. We should truly not fear if we are true believers, for God has ordained it that government will not destroy a true believer anyway.


Here is a passage about right before the end;

Luke 21:16-18
21:16 And ye shall be betrayed both by parents, and brethren, and kinsfolks, and friends; and some of you shall they cause to be put to death.
21:17 And ye shall be hated of all men for my name's sake.
21:18 But there shall not an hair of your head perish.

Notice how verse 16 says they will cause to be put to death, but verse 18 says not a hair on your head shall perish. The two verses seem to contradict the other when we assume that verse 16 means people are betraying people to death. It does not say we are being physically killed and no longer exist, but that those persecuting will cause the effect that would kill the believer. Yet verse 18 promises that we will be unscathed.

You see, the persecution at least in part is also a cry to the government to assist in destroying the faith. For those who believe, the government will leave them be as it has already been ordained from the beginning.

So I say to you believers as the book of Romans, do not fear government or the propaganda perpetuated that the government is out to control everyone through some diabolic plan. You have nothing to fear if you believe the truth. Civil authority is placed here as a tool until the end.

Good for you!
Good for you!!!


all the time with these religious fools talking about NWO consparicies against their own governements, they are but blind fools. They know not what the bible says or what their government truly does.

Good for you.

reply to post by Incarnated


Well, if you're talking about the Jesus freaks who cling to their bibles while stockpiling ammo and hating the government then you have to make the distinction between the Old and New Testaments. The Old is full of incest and stoning whores and all sorts of things that are now commonly attributed to the fundamental muslims with their honor killings and all. These Jesus freak government haters are all about Jesus and the New Testament.

Then you can bring in the whole "Render unto Caesar" thing that the J-man talked about but that has been interpreted all sorts of ways.

Then there's guys like me who stockpile ammo and hate the government but some old book and a guy who may or may not have ever existed really doesn't have anything to do with it.

If Jesus came and sat on my face and told me to love and embrace the government I'd probably shoot him. If he came and sat on my face and was totally on my side I'd still shoot him. After all what the hell is he doing in my house sitting on my face?

reply to post by thisguyrighthere







Pointing out the flaws of the "Jesus Freaks" is really no great big accomplishment. Let us be honest, there are many flaws and the flaws are quite large. Much of the flaws seem to be spraypainted neon colors, and they appear to be flashing as well.

This is how you know they are all blind. Because you'd have to be blind not to see such flaws.

nevertheless, if you see a man with a cane, sunglasses, and walkingdog slowly moving down the street, and his tie, shirt, pants and jacket all conflict in pattern and color, understanding he's blind, keep in mind, he think he looks good.

Originally posted by Incarnated
nevertheless, if you see a man with a cane, sunglasses, and walkingdog slowly moving down the street, and his tie, shirt, pants and jacket all conflict in pattern and color, understanding he's blind, keep in mind, he think he looks good.

Does he really think he looks good or does he just not care if you think he looks good?

reply to post by thisguyrighthere



That sounds like you just want to shoot everyone. Is there any ideology that you agree with?

What the obedience to government clause in the KJ version says to me is that....

When the Council of Nicea under Constantine edited the KJV, they along with editing out sections of the Bible, they edited IN obedience to government. After all the Council of Nicea was a government sanctioned body. What do you expect.

www.abovetopsecret.com...

[edit on 11-1-2008 by whaaa]

"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's"

Remember the story in Daniel. Three men refused to worship the pagan idols and were sentenced to death. Why didn't they obey their government? Because even though we are to respect human authority, we are not to respect human authority that disrespects God. What is Paul implying? That government is under God- not equal to or above Him.

If the government instituted a one-child policy in America should we start aborting our children because the government says so? Not remotely. There is a hierarchy and God is always at the top.

Instead of organizing violent protests or trying to overthrow exploitative and ungodly governments through violence, we are to resist peacefully. Not start rampaging through the streets or assassinating leaders.

Originally posted by ben91069
reply to post by thisguyrighthere

 

That sounds like you just want to shoot everyone. Is there any ideology that you agree with?

Mostly Libertarian.

I want to keep what I earn, not be penalized for success (taxation in any form) and be able to own anything I can afford or create without registration, regulation, licensing or permits.

I want freedom.

Originally posted by AshleyD
"Render unto Caesar what is Caesar's and unto God what is God's"

Remember the story in Daniel. Three men refused to worship the pagan idols and were sentenced to death. Why didn't they obey their government? Because even though we are to respect human authority, we are not to respect human authority that disrespects God. What is Paul implying? That government is under God- not equal to or above Him.

If the government instituted a one-child policy in America should we start aborting our children because the government says so? Not remotely. There is a hierarchy and God is always at the top.

Instead of organizing violent protests or trying to overthrow exploitative and ungodly governments through violence, we are to resist peacefully. Not start rampaging through the streets or assassinating leaders.

Well said AshleyD! I can add 'every government is from God [even of Pontius Pilate], but not every government fulfills God's will.'

People should be stop being paranoid about everything and start use logic a bit.

Originally posted by Vojvoda
I can add 'every government is from God [even of Pontius Pilate], but not every government fulfills God's will.'

An excellent point. For instance, the Antichrist's government at the end times is not a Godly government and many Jews and Christians will be put to death under him. We are specifically told not to follow him or his government. However, God is in control and this government is going to happen to fulfill what is intended. The same with Pilate. His government was not remotely Godly but it was necessary to fulfill God's will.

Also remember Nebuchadnezzar's dream referring to the sequence of world governments that would exist throughout human history. He envisioned the human governments as beautiful and costly metals. But what was the prophecy Daniel gave? He saw them as beasts. Mankind equates our power and government with beauty while God sees our ways as wild animals. Something to think about.

one thing to say here, get a dictionary and check the definition of govern.

lets be real if there was no restri..sorry government then all of us common scummy types would be walking up to the rothschilds of the world and asking for our slice of the pie, and that just would not be fair..would it?

Definitely do not fear, but be aware. Above all else follow God's commands.

Psalm 56:4 In God, whose word I praise, in God I trust; I will not fear. What can man do to me?

Originally posted by monoton
one thing to say here, get a dictionary and check the definition of govern.

lets be real if there was no restri..sorry government then all of us common scummy types would be walking up to the rothschilds of the world and asking for our slice of the pie, and that just would not be fair..would it?

Without governments there will be anarchy. How anarchy can be better than organized society?

Originally posted by AshleyD
An excellent point. For instance, the Antichrist's government at the end times is not a Godly government and many Jews and Christians will be put to death under him. We are specifically told not to follow him or his government.

Yes, and when Antichrist rule starts, resistance will be futile.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Also remember Nebuchadnezzar's dream referring to the sequence of world governments that would exist throughout human history. He envisioned the human governments as beautiful and costly metals. But what was the prophecy Daniel gave? He saw them as beasts. Mankind equates our power and government with beauty while God sees our ways as wild animals. Something to think about.

Daniel saw those states as beast as they tried to rule over the world [I agree] – ancient versions of NWO if you want . But government is not bad by definition as opposite is anarchy. The problem is when one ruler/government wants to rule over the world.

Originally posted by Vojvoda
The problem is when one ruler/government wants to rule over the world.

Thats exactly what Christ is supposed to do; become the head or leadership of the entire world as laid out in prophecy. I think the problem is government that does not have Christ as the head.

Originally posted by ben91069
Thats exactly what Christ is supposed to do; become the head or leadership of the entire world as laid out in prophecy. I think the problem is government that does not have Christ as the head.

I disagree with that,if it were important Christ would have run for office,so to speak.

He made it perfectly clear that the last shall be first,so how could one have a high position on earth and represent God as well and we are instructed not to care about worldly problems,so how could a follower of Christ run a government?

Originally posted by ben91069

Originally posted by Vojvoda
The problem is when one ruler/government wants to rule over the world.

Thats exactly what Christ is supposed to do; become the head or leadership of the entire world as laid out in prophecy.

That's how Jews interpreted it [and still]. That's why they didn't recognized Jesus Christ as Messiah. They thought that Messiah will create some kind of world Jewish Empire.
That's Antichrist about you talk. :shk:

Originally posted by ben91069
I think the problem is government that does not have Christ as the head.

And they don't have as Christ is head of Church [kingdom of heaven as he himself said].

[edit on 12-1-2008 by Vojvoda]

Originally posted by ben91069
Thats exactly what Christ is supposed to do; become the head or leadership of the entire world as laid out in prophecy. I think the problem is government that does not have Christ as the head.

You're thinking of Christ's Kingdom also referred to as the Millennium, which comes into fruition after Armageddon and the last Rapture of the faithful. He will rule for 1,000 years at the end of which, Satan and his demons will be loosed a final time to again test mankind. That will last for a certain period of time and then Satan and his demons will be destroyed along with anyone who fails this testing period and Eternity will begin.

reply to post by ben91069

Romans 13

1Everyone must submit himself to the governing authorities, for there is no authority except that which God has established.

Ok. Now, in the US, where is the governing authority supposed to rest? "We, the people, in order to form a more perfect union...." Ultimately, the governing authority in the US rests with the people. Elected officials serve at our discretion. At least that is the way it is supposed to work. That structure has been usurped recently. It is up to us, we the people, to restore balance.

reply to post by gps777


Easily, from within. The followers of Christ return to spirit and then indwell the world. Therefore, the head of the government once again for all eternity becomes the truth within all mankind.

External government then does not exist and neither does chaotic anarchy. Each person becomes sovereign and governs themselves within and the Christ consciousness handles the interaction on the spiritual side of it.

The physical "one-world government" is a fake counterfeit of the true one. Hence when you see the worlds governments fall apart all at once, you know the righteous one-world government with its throne in heaven is about to take control.