Size of Survival property

I am curious as to other people's thoughts about size? Chuckle...chuckle.

Seriously though. What is the best size for a survival retreat? Do people worry about it being too big?

I live in Texas and there are plenty of properties for sale all the way up to like 13000 acres.

Thoughts?

In an all out survival situation property rights will have little meaning other than how remote and how defensable an area is.

In addition, you could have 100000 acres, but if there is not food or more importantly water, your ability to replenish your supplies is in doubt.

In my case, it's a semi-remote, faily well hidden 120 acres which has trees, water, wind and solar power access, enough tillable ground for growing food and nieghbors that may not even know I'm here.

In other words ... perfect paradise.

reply to post by reblazed



I sure envy you.
This sounds like a dream come true property.

Thanks ... I think so, too. Or it will be as soon as the almost underground house is complete.

Those are some of the things I am wondering about.

Obviously, I want it large enough I can grow food. All of the places I am looking have a large supply of water.

As well as a large supply of animals.

So assuming, all the food and water is taken care of. What is a good size to consider being able to defense?

Again, I realize in a total tshtf scenario property rights might be questionable, I could still be theoretically the first person there and able to secure it.

Hi TLShark: This is a good question. We have 11 acres, mostly woods. But we do have a large space which could be made even larger, for a veggie garden. our soil is very rocky and has literally zero nutrition. We use manure from our horses and work it into the soil to improve it.

We have woods, an excellent and reliable spring, horses and room for goats and chickens. We also have lots of wildlife and could live off the deer, racoons and other creatures. There are also plenty of wild herbs and edible plants. If we needed more room we could easily clear some of the woods without harming anything very much.
I think we're pretty much set for whatever happens and that's only with 11 acres. We also have great neighbors and would all band together if something happened. We would share skills, knowledge and gardening, also hunting, if need be. Our neighbors have 5 acres and 2 horses, along with 20 goats, and a garden, so I'd say they're pretty well set.

I think if you just have even 5 acres, you can make it work, depending on how you utilize it. And 5 to 11 acres are easier to defend than a huge plot of land, I would think. It's easier if there are more than just 2 or 3 people. I think the best plan is to have a big piece of land and have a small community of people who live on it, defending it, gardening, taking care of animals, etc. We have that type of setup since we have neighbors who would all join together. We're also lucky in that we live in the Appalachians (moved here from Calif) and the locals are all very good at surviving by living off the land, they've done it for hundreds of years. They are more than willing to share their knowledge.

I also think having land rather high up and in a remote area is a good thing, due to floods, etc. It's just plain difficult to access this area and that would help keep outsiders away.

How much land you need will depend on what kind of diet you choose. If you are willing to live on veggies, even a smaller size will do.

i think it's all about the availability of the resources needed in creating
a sustainable retreat.

the Branch Davidian compound was not large enough nor organized in such a way as to remain intact and provide survivability under seige.

so you know 'that' is not a model to copy if you expect to be under
at least sporadic raiding parties or a Fed/State seige...
if your imagining your sanctuary to be 'invisible' to the outside world,
think again




[edit on 10-1-2008 by St Udio]

reply to post by forestlady


i agree with your last point, it is no good having somewhere that is blind so to speak. like in a bowl,

ideally you should have a good view 360 degrees, so that you can see all that may be coming in your direction

and size is def not an issue as pointed out above , my mothers family have been living a sef-sufficent life for years now ,on a 10 acre smallholding in Scotland, plenty of water is also a def must !!

snoopyuk

Actually, the size doesn't really matter, as long as you're in a remote location (think about rioting in heavy populated areas), and somewhere as far away as possible from the fan that the dookie is hitting.

Now, if you're thinking "doomsday asteriod", which is a highly probable scenario, there are some pretty good "bunny" ranches in Nevada where it might be fun to spend the annihalation.

I don't own any land being a minor, but I can describe what I want my "survival retreat" to be.

I would like 100 +/- acres in the mountains of Montana. Deep in the woods, several lakes/ponds, located near state game lands a plus.
Somewhere near Glacier National Park would be my number 1. choice, but I'm flexible. I might move out there once I can, so I will have a while to scout locations.
Anyone suggest a place in Montana?

just a thought. Read the bible. it says that all of those who hide in the earth will be crushed. I was asking my friend about the thought of pyramid structures, collapsed during the day. thoughts?

Anyplace...ANYPLACE is already known to other's, you may get there first but you will have "visitors". Spots in fringe areas, high ground in large swamps, steep side hills, hanging valley's, open ground, rough brushy areas, offer less chance of being "crowded"....BTW ancient Indian encampments were seasonal in nature, hill tops in summer to catch the breeze to keep insects down, downwind protected side of hills during fall/winter. Water may be 1/4 mile or more away from an encampment...

Other thought's... If your thought is to hunt and forage, you will have to be on the move often because you will use up the game and plants in the area. So you would be better served by looking for an "area" instead of a "location", planning to move a circular route during the year to take advantage of seasonal game/plants... Access to an ocean can provide food daily, but has it's own problems also(weather related for the most part)...

reply to post by Oneshot1


Good point, I had thought about this and while I definetely would plan for the event. I wouldn't be so hasty as to say that I'm going to make a retreat somewhere. Eventually it will be discovered, so no point in spending time building one. I think in order to survive the people who escape should take note that they'll have to be on the move ALL the time. Live off the land, build temporary shelters, but keep moving... when can you stop? who knows, anyone know the exact date when this event will finally end and we can go back to re-building our lives?

I for one will either a) escape into the wild and live off the land, but keep moving or b) will hold my ground in my house until I die (I don't own rifles, but I have a big collection of razor sharp Katana swords, all of which I know how to handle very well). I won't be dragged to a FEMA camp I will tell you that right now.

Interesting thing to note. Remember how during and after WW2 the majority of the german population outright refused to believe that the Nazis were putting Jews into concentration camps? isn't it interesting that now a days we have a similar thing with the FEMA camps? Granted, there are no americans there... yet. But it will be interesting to see how the reaction of the american people will be after all this happens.

On another interesting note. If we are to assume the U.S. will have a take over very similar to Nazi germany's (through martial law) are we to assume any underground resistance movements are underway? How will I be able to know if there are any in my area? (in case that ends up being the only way for us to take back the govt.) will we actually get any help from foreign powers like the french undeground movements during ww2? or will we seriously SOL thanks to all the hatred the US has spurred world wide? I guess what I'm simply saying is, if s**t does hit the fan, are we going to be alone taking on Big Brother? Are we going to be doomed to constantly live in hiding?

[edit on 11-1-2008 by Question]

[edit on 11-1-2008 by Question]

A gentlmen's farm is 5-10 acres and sufficient if there is good plantable land and proper animal care and cleanliness for say 4 cows total. A milker or two and two steers. Keeping the ground and groundwater clean being critical.

A couple could, if careful, make a go on a half acre of clear ground with only a few chickens and no large animals. Here again if you ruin your ground with poor practices things could go bad.

The whole "bug out and live off the land" thing will be nearly impossible, especially for the first couple of months after a true TEOTWAWKI and maybe never as anyone who has ever hunted in their lives will be out foraging for food, and will not care a whit about killing way over the "limit". Read about wild animal levels back during the Great Depression in the United States. Granted, more people were hunters, but there are more people now than ever and during the depression, laws were still enforced, so no one could just go on a hunting spree killing all they want for food, what will be the determining factor if TSHTF?

Don't want to be a downer, but I do think that people on this board should try to help each other out. If I am wrong, please let me know and give me some facts.

Would like to point to an interesting couple of folks that are doing some amazing things in CA. Granted they have very moderate climate and long growing season, but still worth a scope.

www.pathtofreedom.com


[edit on 16-1-2008 by HYRYSC]

I think the same thing, jtb2008 !

I'll move west in a few years, and have been looking at listings from
Northwest National Real Estate at :

www.northwest-national.com

I'm looking for 20 - 40 acres, no higher an elevation than 4,000 ft. ,
maybe Missoula or Helena, to keep cost down.

Glacier is nice, but much higher elev.

Cccoold, long winters, short summers, solar power a must ! Become as
"stand alone" as possible with woodburner, windmill, gardens indoor & out.

Sounds good to me.

I think the perfect size depends mainly upon what you're actually able to defend. 100+ acre is going to be almost useless to you if you can't protect it from squatters, looters, etc. Property rights will be a non-issue in any post apocalyptic scenario as was mentioned above.

I live on a five acre wooded lot, which is just about as big as I can realistically defend from intruders. I have a large garden, several dozen chickens, a few rabbits, and I slaughter a hog or cow as it gets colder to supplement our food supplies. Should there ever be some type of man-made or natural disaster, even this small patch of property will be hard to protect without help.

Thankfully, my neighbors are also first and second degree blood relations, and are agreeable to pooling manpower and resources for a group survival situation. I live in a rural area, so everyone is well-armed, knows how to hunt, and are not strangers to working the land. My father-in-law though in his 80's, is an invaluable warehouse of independent living survival skills and farming techniques both new and old. I like to think of him as the Macgyver of the woodlands.


[edit on 18-1-2008 by LLoyd45]