Energizer "D" Battery Exposed

Originally posted by newkid
Luckly I don't buy size D, but I do buy AAA and AA, let me know if they cheating us on those too.

Whenever you're buying rechargable batteries, the only thing you have to look for is the price / mAh.

Good AAA NiMhs have a capacity from 800mAh - 1000mAh
Good AA NiMhs have a capacity from 2500mAh - 2700mAh

Older AAA NiCds can have a capacity around 500mAh
Older AA NiCds can have a capacity around 1600mAh


Basically, you have to go for NiMhs and try to get as many mAh as possible, at a good price.

But since most of the rechargables are just rebranded OEM producst from china or japan, it is possible to get bad batteries with a real capacity much lower than stated.

Since i work with electronics i always check with people who test them, before deciding which to choose for a project. There are forums dedicated to batteries and people there test rechargables extensively and publish the results.

Still, as long as you know what mAh mean, you have a much better chance of getting a good battery for your needs.

As long as you charge them with a delta peak charger, you will also get the most out of them.


Slow (trickle) chargers are not that good, since you have to time how long you charge them, and time based chargers are also not much better, since you don't really know how empty a battery is and due to high available charging rates you can overcharge and damage the battery.

A good charger costs more, but can actually save you money. The best delta peak chargers also have temperature sensors under the battery slots, to prevent them from overheating.

But again, as with the batteries, there are differences even with the delta peak chargers. One can decide a battery is full, while another might want to charge it for a few more hours. Again something to check into, before buying.

Battery forums have the answer to everything about this. You can't beat the accumulated experience from hundreds of people, who know what they're talking about.

Originally posted by Extralien
If two different sized batteries have the same mAh then why make the sizes different?

You'd think that a bigger battery would have a higher mAh, in theory, yet this is not the case as we're all discovering.
Why?

Before we had all these rechargable batteries, the bigger ones did have more power then the small ones.

Since incandescent bulbs can use a lot of power, it made sense to use bigger batteries with a higher capacity for flashlights.

Otherwise they could have made the flashlight smaller and use small batteries.


Now with all the new kinds of rechargable batteries, many small ones actually have a higher capacity then the big ones had in the beginning.

So yes, you are right, when you assume, they just do it to save / make more money. They assume (correctly), that most people won't know the difference.

Is it right to do so? Well, they do state the capacity, so they're not lying. But if you know what to look for, those 2500mAh in a D battery are going to look very suspicious.

They're just selling the brand name instead of capacity. In this case it's often better to go with brands you never heard of before, but which actually offer a capacity consistent with the size of the battery, which in a D size should be close to 10.000 mAh.

[edit on 9-1-2008 by deezee]

I will stick with Lithium Ion batteries until something better comes out. They seem to charge quickly and last longer than anything else as long as I don't leave them continuously charging which kills the charge capacity.

reply to post by deezee


deezee, thanks for the informative post!

You are right about the importance of chargers. I found that Rayovac 15-min chargers, combined with their IC3 techology batteries, do seem to work better than other combinations. This indeed has to be due to how they control the charge.

No Energizers or any brand that does this kind thing for me.
Not that i have used a real battery like this for at least 10 years now.
Ony the remotes i have still use the aaa battery.

BTW an A23 battery is made of 8 smaller button cell batteries
and you can save up to $13 if you open up one A23 instead of buying 8 individual
button cells.

So in the end the knife cuts both ways i guess

Good thread, OP - I brought this up a while ago.

23 flags?

I suppose it matters when you post - maybe your post count at the time.

I got 1 reply when I posted this same exact topic a year ago last year. Lol. 2008 must be the year of the battery.

Maybe posters don't check.

Maybe mods don't do their job.

Which one is it?

Oh well, at least the topic has gained the attention that it deserves. These battery companies are certainly ripping us off. I find it despicable.

reply to post by deezee


Nice post deezee, it's most probably due to what you said about the older batteries that we've been left in this muddle.

Before we had all these rechargable batteries, the bigger ones did have more power then the small ones.

If the selling of a brand name is more justified than the product, then somethings wrong :-)

reply to post by benign.psychosis


benign, thank you for your post and pointing out your original thread on this matter.

Unfortunately I did do a search prior to posting mine, but I found nothing similar.
I've just had a look at yours and it would appear there are no tags attached to your thread, so this may be the reason why I never found a matching thread.

Thank you for your continued interest in this and sorry that your thread was not all you hoped it would be.

@extraalien
Thank You for clearing that point up, I did not know. So I guess the moral is don't buy energizer. But the thing is if your into electronics you can make your own SUPER battery by using some caps and jackets. I would bet you could make some more efficient that battery companies. That would be a nice little business don't you think?

This is not surprising, it's good for business (until it's exposed of course). A car manufacturer I used to work for specifically designed their vehicles to have a lifespan of only 5 years. Why? It's good for business...

[edit on 9/1/08 by NuclearPaul]

Originally posted by NuclearPaul
This is not surprising, it's good for business (until it's exposed of course). A car manufacturer I used to work for specifically designed their vehicles to have a lifespan of only 5 years. Why? It's good for business...

Yea but it's different there ... the car company wasn't telling consumers in plain english "these cars are built with components that will only last you 40,000 miles." These batteries clearly state on the package the amperage. See my previous post.

Yes it's really shady that they are selling them for that much ... you should get alot more power for the price. But they are not misleading ... again, the battery lettering system is based on physical size NOT voltage/amperage.

I'm sorry to have to lighten the tone of th thread for a moment, But I found this picture on another forums thread where they are currently turning some poor guy into the internets biggest ownage parade...

The point is, I noticed the letters on the side of the car...



AAA battery powered cars test drastically fails after batteires pop from over heating...

There is a D cell battery adapter in the market which uses "AA" size battery.

"D size battery adapters. Just snap your AA size NiMH rechargeable batteries into these handy plastic adapters to replace you D size Alkaline or Rechargeable batteries."

www.starbatteries.com...

--

I guess we can all avoid Energizer D cell batteries and have our very own adapter, after all its just an AA capacity installed in a D size encasement.

Here's a little something that's not explained in any shape or form when you buy a device (MP3 players in this example).

It completely shocks me that they can state you can get X amount of hours of play from a set of batteries, but they fail to tell you how they get that amount of hours.
Which leaves you getting far less from your battery than you imagined.

I swear these device and battery companies are in cahoots with each other..

For most manufacturers, the perfect scenario requires that you play only MP3s encoded at 128Kbps; you're wearing bundled earbuds; your volume level is at about 50 to 75 percent; the backlight of your screen turns off automatically within 5 to 10 seconds; your equalizer setting is flat or normal; there are no DSP settings (such as the iPod's Sound Check) enabled; you listen to your music in one, maybe two sessions; and if applicable, you don't view any photos or videos. Given that these conditions are rarely ever met in the real world, you'll never achieve the number x in "up to x hours."

reviews.cnet.com...

reply to post by Obliv_au


Wow, thanks for the good information, I'm going to have to buy a few of those lantern batteries to keep around in case I ever run into a situation where I may need a few AA's and can't get to the store for whatever reason. This really does still amaze me, it makes me want to do a few test runs with AA batteries and AA batteries from inside the lanterns to see if there is any noticeable difference in power or time of use. Is there a way to test the mAh without just running the battery down and timing it? I do have a multimeter around here somewhere...

Thanks again, great info on this thread.

Originally posted by thebeard
Is there a way to test the mAh without just running the battery down and timing it? I do have a multimeter around here somewhere...

Unfortunatelly, no.. Measuring the voltage doesn't tell you much.

The only way to test the capacity of a battery would be to use it on a load and measure the current and time, then multiply it.

From this you then get the mAh a battery has.


This can be good for testing rechargables, but if you do it to a normal battery it is then empty..

Here's a rather nice site I found on alkaline battery performance.

quite good actually. They've laid out the results in a very easy way .

www.batterytruth.com...

And now a new rule regarding lithium batteries on aircraft..

Effective January 1, 2008, the following rules apply to the spare lithium batteries you carry with you in case the battery in a device runs low: Here are some Points of Lightning. The problem is Lithium is a fire and explosive hazard. It's hard to fight a fire below decks in the cargo area, It's easier to contain in the cabin of an aircraft. Loose Lithium's if jarred or the terminals compromised will burn, oxidize or explode.

www.aljacobs.com...

And this summary is about Nicd batteries and the 'memory effect' and recharging.

To avoid the “memory effect” you should perform a “full recharge cycle”, which is to use you gadget out of its charger until it is operationally discharged (i.e. when you cordless phone starts beeping) and only then recharge it.
# NiCd batteries accept around 500 full recharge cycles.
# NiCd batteries cannot be fully discharged (voltage below 1 V per cell). This damages the battery.
# Don’t short-circuit NiCd batteries or perform any other “quick discharge” trick. This damages the battery (even though several people claim that they can recover NiCd batteries with “memory effect” by doing this). The bottom line is: this kind of trick won’t dissolve the Cadmium crystals, which are responsible for the “memory effect” problem.
# "Zapping" a NiCd battery (high-current quick charge) can solve some dead battery problems, however this technique isn't related to solving the "memory effect" problem.
# When not in use, NiCd batteries lose 1% of their charge per day. After three and a half months, the battery is completely discharged, damaging the battery.
# Don’t expose NiCd batteries to high temperatures.
# Batteries not based on Cadmium do not suffer from “memory effect”.

www.hardwaresecrets.com...

And how's this? Sugar batteries...

How’s this for eco-friendly: a battery that runs on sugar. Sony’s bio cell, unveiled in mid-2008, uses glucose-digesting enzymes to extract electrons from any sugary solution (as with other batteries, the electrons flow around the circuit to generate electricity). Connect four of the 50-milliwatt cells, and you’ve got enough juice to keep your MP3 player humming.

www.time.com...

And just in case you thought testing batteries was easy...

Studying batteries involves more than turning on a battery powered device to see how long it runs. Different types and sizes of batteries have widely varying characteristics, so there are many interesting experiments you can perform to make for an excellent science fair project. We'll suggest a number of possibilities for your experiment below.

www.sciencebuddies.org...

This thread has shown us just how complex these batteries are and how easily the public are not told the full story about batteries.

In some caes it appears all brands are as good as each other, yet it depends on what you use them on/in, then you have the different chemical structures for them.

As much as the experts may know about batteries, it does strike me as odd as to why certain devices, like cordless drills for builders, will last a lot longer on a charge than an mp3 player.

And we can all work out why they have not made a battery that outlasts anything we've ever had... I like the sugar battery though.

Originally posted by thebeard
On to the batteries. I checked a universal charger we have at work for batteries and the listed input wattage is 6W or .006kW. In this case, 4 - D batteries take 16.5 hours to charge so 16.5h x .006kw = .099 kWh. My power company charges about $9.10 per kWh so to charge all four D cells would cost me $0.90. That's only about $0.23 per battery charge.

-SNIP-

So the final price verdict, for rechargables: $30 initial cost +$230 for 1000 charges = $260

For alkalines you would need to buy about 133 batteries to equal the mAh of 1000 charges so at $5 apiece you would spend about $665.

You made a math error that sent your cost's off 100 fold. You have your electric rates at $9.10 per KWh. Your cost is more like 9.1 cents per KWh. Not $9 dollars per KWh.

So to charge your four NIMH D cells will only cost you less then a penny.

Your also guessing at your chargers energy draw. In reality it's overall energy use is more likely less then half of of your guess. Picking up a $20 Kill A Watt meter like this will pay for itself very quickly. www.supermediastore.com... C_adwords&gclid=CM3t9anW3ZECFQc-gwodRnZyeQ


You mentioned D alkaline's have 19,500mah capacity. That is only true on extremely light loads. Like a clock. Try them in anything that draws some current and those 19,000mah alkaline's will seem like 3,000mah cells. 10,000Mah D NIMH will outrun them by several fold.

reply to post by Technologist


Eh, math was never my strong suit...

Thanks for the correction, I took a stab at it from what I could glean from the net and my fuzzy college memories, either way the rechargeable batteries still came out on top it seems for cost. There are so many dang variables working with this I knew I'd screw something up. I honestly should have spent a bit more time checking it out before I posted.

I'm sheepish that i screwed up the cost of kilowatt hours though, my mom has worked for the power company for some 15 years so if there was one thing I should have gotten right... dang decimal points...

Thanks again,

thebeard

This entire thread is silly.

This thread has shown us just how complex these batteries are and how

The battery sizes and voltages ard international standards by the IEC. Larger sizes are *designed* to hold up to several smaller sizes wired together in parallel, based on the design specs of the product. For example, it would make sense to enable portable cassetteplayers/radios to be batteryoperated for a long time, so those products are designed to used D-cells, which can hold several smaller cells.

Don't tell me that you were not taught about cells and batteries, the IEC standard and how cells in parallel adds the amps and cells in serial adds the volts, in school. Seriously, In Denmark this is covered in 1st year physics class when children are 13. The US can't be that different!

easily the public are not told the full story about batteries.

Think about that statement for a minute. Would you really like to be forced to endure endless lectures on millions of technical concepts and practical applications that might be relevant for some people but highly unwelcome to others, just so that you can have the full story on everything you can buy?

People want to go to work, watch the TV, drive their car, use their microwave, use their computer without knowing the finer details of how they work or which standards they adhere to.

There is no conspiracy when it comes to batteries. Energizer just produces D batteries with several different MAh ratings, so that the consumer can buy the one that fits his need. As for the price, any business will price their product at the highest price that the customer will pay. It's called supply and demand, or capitalism for short. You can be certain that every battery manufacturer does this, depending on their product offering.