Precognitive Dream Experiment - You Help Too!

Hello all ATS'ers!

I'll break this thread down into nice sized parts, so hopefully it will be clear and concise for all who read. There's nothing worse than a horrible, messed up thread and then trying to get people to understand the basis of your point/theory. Anyway, onto my proposition/idea:

Introduction - The Basis of This Thread

Dreams. We all dream and some of us can't remember anything about our dreams when we wake up. Some of us wake up numerous times in the night, whilst others believe they don't at all! The brain is a complex area of our body, that I personally believe holds many secrets. Why do some people claim to be psychics? Why do others claim to see the deceased on 'the other side'? Why is it that most occurances with children, regarding the paranormal seem very accurate? Are their brains less manipulated at that young age?

We sleep an incalculable number of hours in our lifetime. Sleep is necessary to the survival of all the organizations of the animal world, however, even nowadays, the field of dreams is still very mysterious. Since the dawn of times, men has tried to analyze their own dreams, to include/understand them in order to better be able to include/understand their lives and their future.

There are many unanswered questions about the brain and one which I want to focus on here, is DREAMS. I dream vividly. So vivid, that I can remember my dreams throughout the day through memory alone. I wake up several times throughout the night, and at that time, can remember what I was just dreaming about prior to waking.

My Idea

As I wake up during the night on numerous occasions, remembering my dreams prior to waking, I want to write down what it was I was dreaming about during the night. I've never done this and I'm sure some, if only certain small things, get lost in memory throughout the day. I'm sure if I recorded my what I was dreaming about as I woke up, the picture would be even clearer!

Why Are You Doing This Arawn?

Good question there! I HAVE IN THE PAST PREDICTED FUTURE EVENTS THROUGH MY DREAMS. Nothing dramatic, but I have. I remember when I was around 10-12 years old, I predicted what would happen the next day. I bet your thinking - "You predicted you would go shopping, and you did?!" Nah, don't be silly!

I slept and awoke. My mum went to work and I went over my grandmothers with my cousin, to stay until my mum finished work. Over the house we sat around in a circle and played cards. The exact layout, scene and order of events happened right there in front of my eyes. Everything was the same! So much so, that when it was time to turn over a certain card, I knew what the card face would be...and yup...you guessed it, it was! I had immediate 'deja vu' and stopped to wonder for a while what happened. It is so clear that I still remember it to this day, in my mid twenties. I guess you call this a pregognitive dream.

Dream Fact: Results of several surveys across large population sets indicate that between 18% and 38% of people have experienced at least one precognitive dream and 70% have experienced déjà vu. The percentage of persons that believe precognitive dreaming is possible is even higher, ranging from 63% to 98%.

So, What Shall We do?

I will sleep with a pen and pad next to my bed. As I wake, I'll quickly scribble down all I can remember from my dreams, there and then.A dream journal. I have vivd dreams and should remember many things! Hopefully I won't miss anything! I'll be fascinated to see if I come up with anything weird and wonderful that actually relates to the World we are in. I'm a true believer in visions and I'd be fascinated if anything came out that related to an event, before it happened.

What Can We/You Do To Enhance The Experiment

Well, I'd like to firstly hear your views/opinions on this. Am I doing it correctly? Is there anything you'd like added? I've heard that the brain state goes through different stages throughout the night. Are there any particular times that I should be aware of, where for example, my brain would be working in a deeper state?

I'd like you to input some questions that I can read through before bed and see if I get anything during my dream state, that remotely links in with the possible answer. I really don't know what the questions could be, but let's try different things. See if anything happens. If it doesn't, then hey, we tried! If you don't try, then you don't get!

Any dream interpreters here on the boards as well that would be interested in helping out? I know it's a long shot.

I'll start this tonight- UK time.

Good idea. I've had these dreams too, some with major "hits". It would be great if folk would put their dream details in this thread and any that have hits afterwards can be discussed in separate threads with links to this one as "proof". Keeping this thread as a dream record only would keep it organised. As for folk who don't believe in this stuff, well, they can put their oar in one the discussion threads.I've an interest in backward dreams, so if anyone has had a dream that has then gone in reverse (or a detail similar to the black cat incident in the Matrix movie) I'd love to hear it. I'll explain my interest in this later.



[edit on 7-1-2008 by wigit]

Yes, we need a way of validating the dreams too. Whether or not what you dreamed about actually happened etc.

1. Record and date your dream

2. Share your dream as soon as possible with another person, BEFORE waking events catch up to the dream.

3. Record and date subsequent events in waking life that appear to correspond to your dream.

4. Share and discuss the match-up



It seems so easy, yet those four points are a great and simple way to validate precognition in home experiments that can (a) confirm that we have the natural ability to dream things before they happen and (b) enable us to present this phenomenon lucidly and coherently to others -- who can now be encouraged to test their own abilities and stage their own experiments.

If we perform the whole experiment just ONCE, we have powerful evidence of dream precognition of a kind I hold to be truly scientific -- and a pathway for a dream science based on the raw data of experience. For anyone who succeeds in this, the implications go deeper than our world, since they imply that our consensual notions of time (and reality itself) are inadequate.

The involvement of the dream monitor (i.e you guys at this forum) is crucial, because this supplies external validation that the dream came before the corresponding physical event, and that the dream report was not edited. So dates and times need to be added to dream stories, the morning you wake up on this thread.

reply to post by Arawn

This is a great experiment! I'm definitely interested in any results.

Let's say you post your dream (including timestamp) early in the morning, and we can see in the afternoon, or later in the week, what the outcome of events actually is. It would offer solid evidence of dreams as precognition tools (assuming there is no way to modify the timestamp of the original post.) It might offer incontrovertible proof of your basic hypothesis.

A variation on this experiment: I wonder if people have similar dreams? If you posted your dreams, I would be highly interested in seeing whether it corresponded with other peoples dreams for that same day or week.

#

The most bizarre thing about your post is that I actually considered running an experiment like this in December, but decided to wait until I had more experience with ATS before formally proposing such an idea. (I thought it presumptous of me to start organizing experiments, having been a member of ATS for only a month.)

I think ATS is a perfect platform for conducting this experiment, or other experiments on universal consciousness, precognition, metaphysics.

So you can see -- as I read your proposal -- that I get a little chill. Why would you suggest an experiment like this, at this time?

#

Please go forward with this. I will definitely be interested. Flagged!

Originally posted by Buck Division
Let's say you post your dream (including timestamp) early in the morning, and we can see in the afternoon, or later in the week, what the outcome of events actually is. It would offer solid evidence of dreams as precognition tools (assuming there is no way to modify the timestamp of the original post.) It might offer incontrovertible proof of your basic hypothesis.

Well you can edit your posts, but you see the [EDIT] sign inserted at the bottom of your posts. So what I'll have to do, and others, is make sure you place the date and time at the top of the post before you press submit!



I agree with you though that it's a fascinating subject. Also, it's not a modern era thing either. Trying to dream the future, speak to higher entities through dreams etc dates back to the Egyptians and of course even earlier than that, the Bible, where prophets claim to have visions through their dreams. I believe, going back to the Egyptians, they had a chamber specifically designed to sleep and try and communicate to their gods. I had it on a website this evening, telling about it, but unfortunately can't find the source right now.

As for experiments in the past, there's one that stands out well for me anyway! Studies by Montague Ullman and Stanley Krippner were carried out in 1960 - 1972 directed at determining if dreams were psychic, and if they could carry a message through channels other than the five normal human senses. These studies were highly successful. In twelve major experiments, 83.5% of the dreams were accurately telepathic.

Stanley Krippner is an American psychologist and professor of psychology and an executive faculty member of the Saybrook Graduate School and Research Center in San Francisco, where his personal commitment to teaching has been honored by the establishment of an interdisciplinary chair for the study of consciousness....

...He has spent the last several decades investigating the field of human consciousness, conducting research in such areas as dreams, hypnosis, shamanism, and disassociation, often from a cross-cultural perspective, with an emphasis on anomalous phenomena that seem to question mainstream paradigms.

There's a few interesting articles on his website HERE

Anyway, which ever way you stand on the subject, it would be interesting to see the results and where it leads us

Originally posted by Arawn
There's a few interesting articles on his website (Krippner) HERE

Thanks Arawn, excellent website! I just spent more than an hour reviewing these papers.

Here is the particular paper, from that site, which I think is most pertinent and interesting: Self-Organization in the Dreaming Brain; To me, the most interesting part of that paper is a discussion of "stochastic resonance" -- this is an amazing physical property that I did further research on Wikipedia.

Here is what stochastic resonance is: when you have a system that is perfectly balanced, it becomes very tuned into subtle and perhaps invisible signals. The more perfectly balanced the system is, the better an instrument it is for detecting these signals. An example – consider a very thin stick, perfectly balanced on its end. Eventually it will tip over due to some small vibration in the environment -- perhaps a small variation in gravity, due to the passing of the moon!

So consider that the sleeping mind is perfectly balanced between reality and something else. It is attuned to highly complex signals -- perhaps a small sound in the environment -- or perhaps a small invisible trend coming from some other -- what – some other metaphysical realm perhaps?

Each night, as we sleep and dream, we make some connection to an invisible aspect of our reality, which is hidden from us otherwise. As you say in your earlier post – this has been known since ancient times. Why is this? How can we use this? Your experiment is very interesting because it is an attempt to answer those questions.

#

As an aside, I started a thread yesterday was trashed by a moderator, for discussing psychedelics. (No loss – good for ATS to enforce this rule.) I get something now: that trashed thread of mine, could have been adjusted slightly to be titled “Can Dreams Open Metaphysical Doors” – a strange synchronicity with your OP – again.

Obviously so – I’m waiting to see what happens next!

(Edited to clean up some things....)

[edit on 7-1-2008 by Buck Division]

I am wondering if this experiment is going anywhere or has been halted or aborted perhaps. To the OP I am also wondering what position you sleep in at night, back, stomach or side.

After some research of my own I have found it to be true for me that sleeping on your back leads to more lucid dreaming and I wake more during the night which also allows me to remember more of my dreams.

If I sleep on my side or stomach I generally sleep all night in the same position and wake without remembering much of anything dream-wise unless of course the alarm clock interupts the last dream I am having.

Originally posted by tnt3kgt
I am wondering if this experiment is going anywhere or has been halted or aborted perhaps.

Hold up soldier, it's only one day old! I was unfortunately, or fortunately (which ever way you look at it) out last night, so didn't get much good sleep in order to start the project as I wanted. This will happen tonight!

Originally posted by tnt3kgtTo the OP I am also wondering what position you sleep in at night, back, stomach or side.

Many different positions. Obviously I don't know what position I'm in under deep sleep because I'm not conscious, but I would say mostly when drifting off to dream land I start on the side. Fetal position maybe?

Originally posted by tnt3kgtAfter some research of my own I have found it to be true for me that sleeping on your back leads to more lucid dreaming and I wake more during the night which also allows me to remember more of my dreams.

Good stuff. I had my first experience of sleep paralysis a few nights ago. I laughed at it after I woke up in all honesty. I woke up, hearing my mother going about her morning preparations and I just felt really uncomfortable. I knew there was something behind me, but I couldn't move to look (even though deep down I didn't really want to look!) I then heard like an evil murmer coming from behind myself, after I knew it was about to happen. I then woke up fully enough to turn myself around. My body was really scared.

Looking back the day after I found it amusing. Myself being scared of something that wasn't really there in the physical realm.

But going back to the experiment, I'll get my notepad and pen ready next to my bed tonight. I apologise for not being able to start it last night. I have to have fun as well you know!

Sounds like a good experiment, I always remember my dreams, so when I get on my PC I will post what I dreamt. Also would you prefer if I post them here?

Originally posted by JoeM23
Sounds like a good experiment, I always remember my dreams, so when I get on my PC I will post what I dreamt. Also would you prefer if I post them here?

Yes by all means. That's what I meant by 'you help too.' Also, I'd love people to give me some questions or things to think about upon sleeping and see if that relates to my dreaming experience - potential visions.

I mean, I'm doing it myself and I will post what happens at what times etc, but if we all chip in and something occurs later that relates to our dreams and can be proven (i.e the original post was time stamped and not edited) then we can add weight to the claims that whilst dreaming we can see future events. I've had a precognitive dream in the past, as I said above, and knew it happened as it occurred the day after, so it was fresh in my memory. But I wonder how many times through our life, our dreams/visions have become a reality, but we have had no record of them. NOW'S OUR CHANCE! WE CAN GET SOME SORT OF PROOF OF PRECOGNITIVE DREAMING.



We can say that dreams are part mythology, part spirituality, and part brain function combined to make a complete mental and psychological force of creative, and often purposeful inspiration. In dreams, we have the potential ability to glimpse not only what is and what was, but also what could be. These manifestations of spirit, allow us to potentially take concerted steps in a given direction. The direction towards basic understanding of what happens when we sleep. We can work together in this. In taking time to work with and understand our dreams, I'm sure we will gain knowledge, insight, and possibly vision! We create and define our dreams, and in turn, they create and define us.

Edit: One spelling mistake corrected

[edit on 8-1-2008 by Arawn]

Originally posted by Arawn

Originally posted by tnt3kgt
I am wondering if this experiment is going anywhere or has been halted or aborted perhaps.

Hold up soldier, it's only one day old!

To be significant, this experiment is going to have to run for a while. Take your time -- if we rush things it could definitely affect or distort the data.

I'm wondering what would happen if you kept an ATS blog of your dream experiences, and then we could comment on it here, on this thread. (This is just a minor procedural suggestion, but it might be worth looking at.) This would also take the pressure off of this thread.

To get an ATS blog, I think you have to drill down in to the MemCenter. Perhaps some Moderator could help with this, if you sent a U2U. I believe you need at least 40 posts, but I bet ATS will accomodate you in order to conduct this experiement.

Also, I think your sleep paralysis incident is interesting. I've had attacks of this in the past (three times in my life) and it can be somewhat unpleasant and disturbing. I will not let myself fall asleep on my back for this very reason. Something like this might turn out to be significant, and is worth recording. For example, perhaps the best precognitive dreams occur in the days following an episode of sleep paralysis -- or perhaps the opposite?

I'm looking forward to seeing some results, but please also do not rush this, or act out of any sense of obligation. Patience is a virtue....

Good luck!

(Edited to fix quote tags.)

[edit on 8-1-2008 by Buck Division]

Sorry for the confusion about the experiment only being a day old.

For some odd reason I am seeing all the posts (at least in this thread) as 11/07/2007 as well as all users including myself registered on that day...

My computer time and date seem to be correct 1-8-2008 so I am not sure what is wrong, anyone else see the wrong dates?

This sounds like a great idea, I've had a number of pre-cog dreams in my life, though most have been focused on sports (i know, i know, but i can't bring myself to lose money because I bet on a dream hunch) or more trivial things.

Every three months or so I have a type of dream that depicts an end of the world scenario. They all tie together in the sense that they are very familiar and people within the dream remember me, they ask where I've been and why I left. They are particularly vivid and disturbing but I'd be interested as hell if someone else had a similar dream.

Sleeping on your back is definitely a better option. Through years of lucid dreams, sleep paralysis, and OBE's it seems that losing awareness of your body touching or lying in bed is very key. When you sleep on your side or stomach you tend to stretch out your lower back and core, which reminds your body where it is.

So what's the plan? Everyone have an individual post that we continually edit with our dreams and predictions?

Ill be honest I dont have time to run through the whole thread, but I just wanted to throw out a few idea's for ya.

Once you get a base for your experiment, try changing some of your environmental variables:

Increase or decrease the temperature in your room
Drink more or less water before bed
Increase or decrease the amount of ambient light in the room while sleeping
Use a "tone generator" at researched frequencies (frequencies that some say encourages altered dream states) during or before bed.

Those are just a few examples.

Personally, I find that the hotter I am, the more lucid of a dream I have. I've had limited experiance with precognitive dreams, but im almost positive temperature (for me at least) played an important role.

Good luck man

REPLY TO BUCK DIVISION

Originally posted by Buck Division
I'm wondering what would happen if you kept an ATS blog of your dream experiences, and then we could comment on it here, on this thread. (This is just a minor procedural suggestion, but it might be worth looking at.) This would also take the pressure off of this thread.

Yes, I haven't really looked into setting up a blog through ATS. I'll have to have a look at that option thoroughly

Originally posted by Buck DivisionTo get an ATS blog, I think you have to drill down in to the MemCenter. Perhaps some Moderator could help with this, if you sent a U2U. I believe you need at least 40 posts, but I bet ATS will accomodate you in order to conduct this experiement.

Not sure how to go about getting this blog set up. I've checked the member centre and can't see anything there. Umm...ahhh, now I see that it costs you 1000 points. I'll have to get that, if it's something we all agree on?! You mention taking the pressure off this thread. I guess that would be a good idea, but then surely we would all require our own ATS blogs so we can check back and make sure people aren't making things up etc. Also if some have their own blogs and others only post on here, it could get confusing.

I understand what you're saying, that writing in a blog first, then using this thread as the understanding and analysis part of the experiment would be nice and clear, but we need for everyone to be in agreement to this, or it could get messy

Originally posted by Buck DivisionSomething like this might turn out to be significant, and is worth recording. For example, perhaps the best precognitive dreams occur in the days following an episode of sleep paralysis -- or perhaps the opposite?

Yes, great thinking. As I said, it was really odd that I experienced sleep paralysis recently, as I've never encountered that weird experience before. I wonder why after all my life I get it now? What's going on with my brain. Why did my conscious wake up and not my body at this age? Hope it's not a thing that's going to happen more frequently as I get older! I'll be stuck in bed by middle age! HAHA

REPLY TO PARABOL

Originally posted by Parabol
Every three months or so I have a type of dream that depicts an end of the world scenario. They all tie together in the sense that they are very familiar and people within the dream remember me, they ask where I've been and why I left. They are particularly vivid and disturbing but I'd be interested as hell if someone else had a similar dream.

That's very common with precognitive dreams. The most common ones are about natural disasters, the death of a loved one, or of an every day scenario that happens exactly as we had foreseen, like I had. Sometimes we remember the dream right after we have it, while other times we remember the dream only after the event takes place. Either way, precognitive dreams can leave us feeling out of sorts; they shake us out of our ordinary every day routine, and cause us to start asking ourselves questions that may at first seem scary and uncomfortable.

Do you, or have you ever asked yourself why you are getting these end of the world scenario's and why others aren't? It's questions like these which can 'freak' people out. You'd think, I'm sure - "Why do I even have it then in the first place? I want to fix the problem, change the ending, warn the person that something bad is coming their way and do something to step in and help."

Originally posted by Parabol
So what's the plan? Everyone have an individual post that we continually edit with our dreams and predictions?

Nah, we kind of came to the conclusion that editing your post would make your post meaningless. I.e - you could have edited your post/dream account to match a worldly event that 'happened' to take place. Posts need to be edited free when a dream account is placed down. Also a dream that you have remembered needs to be instant, so that if anything does happen, you have it there date stamped on this thread.

As mentioned above, shall we use an ATS blog to write down the dreams first, then analyse them through here. Or all write down our experiences through here? I don't want this thread to get messy, trying to find the truth. But then, I don;'t want it becoming messy having to check ATS blogs and this thread. Back and forth, back and forth...it's a tough one!

I'll write up my dream from tonight on this thread tomorrow for sure, then we can take it from there

PS - Great tips InSpiteOf and just what I was after. Control! Pure control and things we can alter to see how vivid or lack of creativity our dreams become. As for the pm, I gave up that sort of thing a while ago. Only on rare occasions will I do that these days. Occasional special parties etc etc. Cheers anyway mate

Ok, well what did I get last night eh? It all seems a complete pile of 'mumbo jumbo' to me, but I'll post it none the less

Mood before bed - stressed after argument, yet felt calm

What dreams did I record?

DREAM 1

I remember waking up at 3:40 and trying to drift back off to sleep. As I did, images circled my head of a sniper up on a high ledge killing enemies at ease. They appeared from alleyways and streets and the sniper seemed to be able to pick them off one, after one.

DREAM 2

Unfortunately my next record came out too messy and I'm struggling to fit the words together to make any kind of sense out of it, which is a damn shame You never know what you might miss! *Note to self - try writing things down more clearer and not so scribbled at 4 in the morning*

DREAM 3

I then have written down about a dream I had where two people where helping each other. They seemed really good friends and were looking out for each other. A website then flashed into my head numerous times. It's name was 2good.com. Surprisingly, 'googling' this website does bring up hits. I'm going to have a good look around on them to see what I can find!

What else could this dream have meant? Maybe those two friends weren't as close as they appeared after all, and that the relationship from the outside was too good? False, if you like. Like too good for it's own good?! Anyway, for now, I'll stick to the website that was flashed into my mind



DREAM 4

The time I recorded here was 7:10. I awoke from a dream that included two ex footballers! One of them was Alan Shearer, the other, his namesake - Duncan Shearer. They both played football in the UK for people not from these isles.

The message that I got linked with the name Shearer was, success! What I'm thinking about now is the possibility of the future being successful for Shearer. He's been heavily linked with the Newcastle United manager job in the future, possibly after the current one gets the sack or resigns, as he's under a lot of pressure at the moment. Will Shearer come in and do really well in his first ever management role? Who knows

Also why did both Duncan Shearer and Alan Shearer come up together? I really can't give a conclusive answer to this only, to give a possible explanation. Possibly the image/vision, wanted to be specific over the name Shearer and so gave me two footballers with the same name to heavily implant that name into my head? I'm heavily into football, so would recognise both of them instantly. Duncan Shearer actually has a brother too, called Dave Shearer. So that makes three Shearers connected to each other!



Anyway, it's all 'ifs and buts' at the moment

DREAM 5

The most weird one that I can get nothing from!

I walked into Superdrug (A health & beauty retailer in the UK,) and proceeded to buy hair gel. I've had my hair cut really short for the past year and haven't bought gel for ages! Anyway, my cousin appeared next to me and we said hi to each other. I then went to look for the hair gel, but found out that it was too expensive - like ten pound a jar! I then decided not to buy any as I had shaving foam at home already.

I mean, really...what the hell!? That is so random!

Anyway, so there's a few interesting things in there from last night, especially the direct hit to a Dutch website. Were the two friends I was thinking about who were really close, Dutch in Nationality, and that was a way of putting two and two together? I guess you could keep thinking like this though...

I didnt really record my dreams or anything but i figured id post a similarity to yours.

The only dream I can remember defending a house from a rush of invaders. The people in the house had set up hard points and fortified positions and I was manning a machine gun.

weird eh?+

Originally posted by Arawn
The message that I got linked with the name Shearer was, success! What I'm thinking about now is the possibility of the future being successful for Shearer. He's been heavily linked with the Newcastle United manager job in the future, possibly after the current one gets the sack or resigns, as he's under a lot of pressure at the moment. Will Shearer come in and do really well in his first ever management role? Who knows

Omg, you never guess what's just been confirmed this afternoon here in the UK. The Newcastle United manager has just been sacked!

Could Shearer take over now...?

Weird stuff!

Hey Arawn this is my first post here on ATS ive been reading this site for about 1 year now thought it might be about time i contributed something.

I started reading you thread last week and found it really interesting. I pretty much have de ja vue at least once a week i never remember the dream just when its actually happening i know ive experienced before in one way or another so after your idea of dream experiment i thought i'd give it go. I remember at least one or two dreams a night. One i thought you guys would find interesting was Your president George W was killed on my birthday i had this dream 2 nights ago.
So the dream kinda went like this me and all my mates havin a few beers for my birthday at my local club the boys got a big happy birthday song going half way through the song one of the bar girls tell us to shut up and she pointed to the screen. The news report said U.S president George W Bush Killed then i just remember one of my mates looking at me took a sip of his beer and said HEAVY and that was it. I guess its kinda dumb but i just thought i would throw that out there oh and my birthday is on the 7th of Feb

Cool thread!

I speculate that when our brain goes theta (waves) we tap into an imaginative/creative/spiritual realm where time isn't rigid and linear as it is here. It's as if we're living a double life (there and here), and both "worlds" can effect each other. The underlying mechanics could be thought forms, but not necessarily limited to the individual (think group consciousness).

Just recently I had a very vivid dream which was reminiscent in some ways of an abduction experience. I woke up all shaky too. I suppose that's common sleep paralysis, but I find it fascinating that we often experience the same things even though the details are usually different. I theorize that we assign a common archetype to our experience because it's too far outside our normal perception to see "it" or "them" for what they really are.

In the book Supernatural, Graham Hancock suggested that we may be either programmed to experience certain things in trance, or we actually are visiting another realm. Otherwise, our trances/visions/hallucinations should be wildly different from one another rather than sharing common themes throughout human cultures and thousands of years of history.

PS. I have had at least two instances of prophetic dreams.