Iraqi soldier “Caesar” killed three American soldiers as they kicked , beat a pregnant woman

Westcoast

I think he brings up that vid because it shows the oposite to your vids,and that seems fair to me

You posted those vids for your own reason,as he did

The war in Iraq is wrong,we shouldnt be there and we are not wanted!

No matter how many photos or vids you post showing marines handing our candy to children doesnt change the fact we have allowed a great wrong to have been done on the Iraqi people and so many have died from our wrong deed

Our brave boys shouldnt be fighting greedy old mens wars,their lifes are worth far more than those rancid dispicable monsters who wont spill their own blood for their country but are willing to pour the youth of america all over that scorched sand for religion and money

I respect you for your your love for your country,and also for your humanity that I have seen from your posts here.
You are a step above the flag waving blind muslim haters here who think the whole world is somehow jealous of America and think they have the GOD given right to do as they please!

I would rather see photos and vids of our soldiers at home with their families and loved one rather than over there being used as pawns for the big game ahead

Originally posted by Buck Division

The above post makes total sense to me, more than any other thing I've read in this thread so far.

All you have to do is take a look at America. Does anyone think it is okay to beat pregnant women? (I don't see anyone defending that here!)

America is a very tolerant place. However, I don't think any American will sit by and watch outrageous abuse of other human beings. In fact -- that is one reason we were motivated to go to Iraq (as misbegotten as that move was.)

The ONLY REASON this thread resonates with Americans is that we are completely OPPOSED to what these soldiers allegedly did (if it even happened at all!) If we didn't oppose it so much, and weren't offended by the notion that American would blindly accept atrocities -- there wouldn't be any real interest in this thread, nor half the discussion it has provoked so far.

Thanks Birchtree, for adding some real first-hand testimony to the debate.

But if you are conditioned to see Iraqi civilians not as a (pregnant) human but as a animal, it would make it that much easier to abuse and kill them.

That is why boot camp is designed to break down a human and build them back up into trained killing machines.

I'd advise you read that link to the "Milgram experiment" a few posts back...fascinating!

A participant is quoted after being 'debriefed':

While I was a subject in 1964, though I believed that I was hurting someone, I was totally unaware of why I was doing so. Few people ever realize when they are acting according to their own beliefs and when they are meekly submitting to authority . . . . To permit myself to be drafted with the understanding that I am submitting to authority's demand to do something very wrong would make me frightened of myself . . . . I am fully prepared to go to jail if I am not granted Conscientious Objector status. Indeed, it is the only course I could take to be faithful to what I believe. My only hope is that members of my board act equally according to their conscience . . . .

This Iraq quagmire will be viewed by history as another foreign policy blunder much worse then that of Korea or Vietnam.

Again, this patriotic myth that these bootlickers buy into just blows my mind! "Protecting our freedoms" "Fighting them over there so we don't have to fight them here". Nonsense! Lies!

The Troops Do Not Defend Our Freedoms

Click here for more information.

Originally posted by noangels
Westcoast

I think he brings up that vid because it shows the oposite to your vids,and that seems fair to me

No, he posted that vid before I posted my vids, my vids were more in retaliation to his vid of the slain 14 yo. He has generalized and continues to in a repeated fashion, all the while ignoring the vids I posted that state whats contrary to his beliefs.

No matter how many photos or vids you post showing marines handing our candy to children doesnt change the fact we have allowed a great wrong to have been done on the Iraqi people and so many have died from our wrong deed

Our brave boys shouldnt be fighting greedy old mens wars,their lifes are worth far more than those rancid dispicable monsters who wont spill their own blood for their country but are willing to pour the youth of america all over that scorched sand for religion and money

I respect you for your your love for your country,and also for your humanity that I have seen from your posts here.
You are a step above the flag waving blind muslim haters here who think the whole world is somehow jealous of America and think they have the GOD given right to do as they please!

I would rather see photos and vids of our soldiers at home with their families and loved one rather than over there being used as pawns for the big game ahead

I agree, and thank you for your opinion. I think we can all agree that war is bad, and the troops should be at home with their loved ones. I have mixed emotions about the Iraq war. To a degree, I question why the hell we're there. Yet, talking to people who actually live over there, ordinary iraqis...ive come to the profound conclusion that someday, hopefully soon, life will get better for them. Many already believe with saddam and his sons gone, Iraq is better off...

[edit on 5-1-2008 by West Coast]

reply to post by golddragnet

Some of us prefer to look at the many positives performed by our military (and in our lives in general) than to focus on the minuscule amount of negative things they do (and that occur in life)... Forgive me for trying to embrace the brighter side of life... Maybe when you have kids (God I hope you don't with such a nihilistic perspective) your perspective on positive vs. negative will change for the better.

Embrace Life, Mourn the losses, move on and be a positive force in your world.

Stop the Video propaganda contest!!!

The Subject here:
3 American Soldiers were killed by an Iraqi Soldier "Caesar".

Figure out the truth about this story instead of showing all of us your collections of Anti/Pro American videos.

Get to the bottom of it, and stop bickering.

Wow, my post go canned, but people can call Americans killers liars with a fake story.

Nice thread and keep it real moderators.

reply to post by sbob



No. It's more a matter of civility and decorum being exercised in one's responses.

Simple as that.

 

Originally posted by undo

Originally posted by West Coast

You sir, have an agenda... You ignored my videos thus sleeping in your own bed of blissful ignorance.

It's because the person is stuck in THEY mode.

Truth is, THEY are not at fault. It's only about the guys who are actually in charge of this planet. No one group of people is responsible for anything.
We are all individuals.

Very very true. We are all from the same seed..all humans bound to this rock..why cant we all get along, and accept that everybody is not the same?

The individuals who committed the cruel act on that 14 yo and her family do not represent the majority.

Another thing, this is not some wang measuring contest....which one is worse which one isnt, etc. Just that, there is good, but if you only choose to focus on the bad, you can see NO GOOD.

Originally posted by coven
reply to post by golddragnet

 

Some of us prefer to look at the many positives performed by our military (and in our lives in general) than to focus on the minuscule amount of negative things they do (and that occur in life)... Forgive me for trying to embrace the brighter side of life... Maybe when you have kids (God I hope you don't with such a nihilistic perspective) your perspective on positive vs. negative will change for the better.

Embrace Life, Mourn the losses, move on and be a positive force in your world.

As Ive said. Focus on the bad, and you can see no good. It begins to brainwash people. They cannot conceive the simple fact that there is good in somthing that they regard so vehemently as being "bad". Maye its the medias fault? Maybe they have a personal vendetta? Who knows...This world is a cruel place, so make the most out of it. Dont bring people down with a sour attitude.

You sir sound like a person who has a bright future, the type of future people should strive for. The world would be a much better off place with a mentality like yours.

I'm a U.S. soldier myself, not deployed though, im currently stationed in Germany. However my own thoughts on this are that there is a war going on down there. Instead of people taking two very different sides and refusing to look at the facts they need to look within the gray area.

A majority of the soldiers in Iraq are Combat Arms, and the men that signed up for those jobs usually come from poor areas, don't have great educations and are only doing the job for a very few reasons; they want to blow stuff up, they just want money/college, or they want to kill bad guys like in the movies. Very few actually signed up to do some good and help out the world as most would state. Even then, they are put in a hazardous area where the enemy surrounds them and can look like anything and could be anywhere, imagine the stress placed upon the shoulders of these men and the strain on their judgement that could have already been lacking. Of course things like this are going to happen, they are unfortunate, but when you arm a hundred thousand people and send them down their to do, there is of course going to be a few groups that get so fed up with their situation and the poor area around them that they will perform things like this or go into a mob mentality.

I've spoken with a few veterans and alot of them believe that Iraqis wish to do nothing but destroy things, their judgement based on months of observation of Iraqi attitude and behavior has bent their mentality that way and so when you set up that kind of situation of course their going to be sick of Iraqis and a few of the weaker minded soldiers or ones with poor morals are going to sink to this lowly kind of behavior. Even if this event is untrue, im sure things like it have happened before and are even worse to fall upon our ears.

I just wanted to state for the record this O.P. bothers me because it seems like it is meant to rile us up. I for one DO NOT support the Military action in Iraq. I believe our soldiers should be home! NOW!

BUT....

I know these soldiers are worn out. They are tired of being shipped back and forth, for a fruitless war; BUT they are soldiers and as such do as they are told. Most of them have experienced women and children firing on them, and most of them have experienced things that we could NEVER phathom living through.

As with any person, psychologically soldiers will eventually break. They are trained to KILL... But they are also trained on how to interact with non-combatants. These men lived normal lives before 9-11 and the Iraq war. Some of them even stepped up to the plate AFTER these events. These Men AND Women are TRUE Patriots. They put their life on the line because they find a justification for the cause. Imagine going on a patrol through a city, and handing out candy or dancing for the children. and walking back to base. No Conflicts, No Attacks, Just a good day in a world completely foreign to you. A world that is bound to be overwhelmed with war if we do leave.

Without Saddam Iraq is destined to become a U.S. military base because It HAS TO BE! If not terroristic/dictatorial leaders will come in and take the power. To debate whether or not we should be there is NO LONGER an issue. If we leave now; Iraq will be no more. There will be three new countries, all three fighting with each other over the genocide the others performed on their own people. Terrorist or Dictatorial Leaders are the most likely to seize control which will just leave the Iraqi people even more downtrodden.

We must Reduce our Numbers there, and focus on TRULY winning over the people for Iraq to be a success. There will be insurgents, and they must be contained until we LEAVE the country. To truly complete the only positive thing that could come from the War in Iraq would be to change course, Focus on getting all Leadership into the hands of the people...

America should take a 10% cut of the oil, and the rest should be distributed amongst the people. The people should be allowed to elect leaders, and once trust has been established in that leadership is when we begin arming them (like we do everyone else) to continue getting our 10% of the oil, and get our troops out. A Country in that region COULD NOT survive without a strong military.


It sucks to say but I agree with Hillary on this one... Work fast and we could have them ALL back home by 2013. And a stabilized country in the Middle East.

SOOO, Back to topic. I think it is ridiculous to assume guilt for EITHER Caesar OR the soldiers. They deserve to be judged by the facts and only those facts. To wish death on ANY member involved without knowing all the facts, is showing that you are moving with your emotions instead of with your head. Sometimes you have to step away and take a deep breath. These Soldiers are STRESSED to the max when they are in engaged in a sticky situation, there actions very well may have been warranted (armed and pointing or threatening with a weapon IS grounds for a Military person to make you F.U.B.A.R.***look it up***). If so Caesar was in the wrong.

REALLY there are SO Many Scenarios that ARE possible, that for one to make an assumption, is just ludicrous. I would advise everyone listening to the Springer Sprung ATSMIX show. "PATIENCE PEOPLE!" wait for the facts to come in before anyone makes further assumptions. It makes us all look a lot more intelligent!


just My $.02.

Coven

Edit: I deleted the post, because of the links, they showed Videos of what really happens over in Iraq by Militants, the Government does not want you to see.

[edit: links removed]
1a) Offensive Content: You will not post links to images or use avatars and signatures that are offensive, abusive, distruptive and/or hateful. You will not use images, avatars or link to domains that contain gore, mutilation, pornography or illegal(2e) content.


[edit on 5-1-2008 by 12m8keall2c]

[edit on 5-1-2008 by Harvestfreak]

Originally posted by Harvestfreak
WARNING GRAPHIC VIDEOS.

[edit: links removed]
1a) Offensive Content: You will not post links to images or use avatars and signatures that are offensive, abusive, distruptive and/or hateful. You will not use images, avatars or link to domains that contain gore, mutilation, pornography or illegal(2e) content.



[edit on 5-1-2008 by 12m8keall2c]

I feel this was warranted... BUT these videos are out there... and it does show what IRAQ was like. I'm not sure if it still occurs there... But I know it did under Saddam. 12m8keall2c is correct on editing those links out. its just disgusting to see... but the poster has a good point. and these links are EASY to find with a simple google search.

Was that still under T&C? (playing the radio/FCC war online with the mods? [seriously j/k])


Coven

reply to post by FlyersFan


I'm getting tired of your simple use of the word anti-american.

People are tired of the american agenda which is to police and rule the world. I am anti-globalist, anti-capitalist, anti-world bank, does that make me anti-american?

The fact of the matter is is that our country has been hijacked by these very factions that I am vehemently (anti) against. The very reason why there is death, destruction and incidents like this one in the iraq, is because we americans are directly responsible for it. We let it happen. We let them take away our freedoms and let them lie to us into an illegal war. I hate to say it, but we deserve everything that happens to us over there.

I will fight for the constitution. I will fight for me, my family and friends. Hell Flyersfan, I'll even fight for you. But I will not fight for people that have an hidden agenda which is disasterous for me, you and for this country.

reply to post by NewWorldOver


That is YOUR opinion that I share nothing with.

With that logic, if people base their assumptions on the actions of the few, then there is no need in even debate on here. American soldiers = bad.

Come on!! People can do better than that. I have faith

BTW... as was said before, let's get back on topic.

Quit beating a dead horse ><

Is there any credible evidence that the story of GI's kicking a pregnant woman true?

I have seen none so far. Focus on that.

Originally posted by Impreza
Whether or not this is true, I don't know. I will say, however, that most American soldiers in Iraq are jerks. I have heard time and time again from people that I know in Iraq that the soldiers are abusive, rude, and show no respect to anyone.

It's not very surprising though that someone who lives in the richest country in the world chose to go to Iraq and kill people instead of getting an education. Most of the soldiers are ghetto trash and lack a good education, that's why they are so damn easy to be controlled and made to carry out dirty deeds by their officials.

[edit on 5-1-2008 by Impreza]

I enjoy the commotion a questionable article has caused, with a single member sans source suggesting there may be some truth to it.

Meanwhile, blatant anti-Americanism in this thread.
Let me ask a question:
Most soldiers in Iraq are jerks?
Have you been there?
Since I'm obviously expecting a negative response, let me say, I have.
Let me further say that the stress put on our troops does cause 'bad apples' to rise to the surface, and if you honestly think in war that only nice things happen, you have a very poor world-view and should probably leave your computer to exist outside your comfortable boundaries for awhile.

Most of our soldiers are ghetto trash?
What a pathetic piece of unsubstantiated garbage.
We've lowered our standards a bit, yet darned if most of our current recruits aren't hitting that 'bottom of the barrel' application.

Imprezal, and so a lesser extent, Zero and Manson, you are spewing anti-American trash even if the story stands out to be entirely true.

Grow up.

I have to agree should this story be true i find it utterly disgusting that you could do that to a women and her unborn child,
Iam a father to be and if i found that same thing to happen should i be a soldier in the same situation i would not tolerate it i would go as far to say that i would have done the same thing.

This is no longer a war in iraq, its more of a playground bully picking on someone who cant defend themselves, sadam hussain is gone, it was just him they were after wasnt it?...il leave that for you wondeful people here at ATS to decide.

Keeping the faith
TheSkepticSway

The OP is just nonsense. This story is total propaganda and did not happen. The only reason this garbage is being spewed is because things are getting better in Iraq and the terrorists are losing. The people in Iraq are turning against these terrorists and are helping the U.S. find and kill these terrorists more and more. Because the people of Iraq are turning against these terrorists, this story was planted in a lame attempt to get the people in Iraq to stop helping the U.S. and to support them.

The OP should be ashamed for spreading such propaganda which is obviously false.