The Radicalization of America

I think you're gonna here fron Don real soon. That's one of his favorite pieces of literature you are referencing.

reply to post by solo1

IF Americans do not start standing hand in hand regardless of station in life color creed or Religion. they are not worthy of freedom nor to be called Americans.

Your on your last stand, hanging by a thread, and all I see are dark eyes and apathy. you reap what you sow and you are sowing today your destruction and peeing away your dream.

It’s called “ethnic cleansing” when done in Bosnia or Israel. Say you are rich, white and a good Republican. You see money is to be made in the 9th Ward if made over into shopping malls and condo offices and apartments. Problem? Old, poor black people live there. That land is TOO valuable to leave it to the inhabitants. Solution?

Call Bush43 to SLOW down the FEMA and other agencies set up to help disaster victims. Call LA Governor Bobby Jindal to help out. Call your insurance company agents around NO and have them talk straight to the CEO of the major insurers. Slow up settlements. Delay claims processing. Deny every claim with the slightest variance. Ultimately, the black inhabitants in NO will die, move away or sell out. This is LIFE in the fast lane.

I'm still of the opinionthat economic hard times will play a large role in the radicalization of people under the age of 40. It's looking more and more likely that we're heading for a depression, circa 2010 or (latest) 2012. Many of thoday's yourth are hooked on "instant gratification." I'm wondering what such an austere decade will do to them.

reply to post by Justin Oldham

I'm of the opinion that economic hard times will play a large role in the radicalization of people under the age of 40. It's looking more and more likely that we're heading for a depression, circa 2010 or (latest) 2012. Many of today's youth are hooked on "instant gratification." I'm wondering what such an austere decade will do to them.

Time is of the essence. Those who got us here are now pretending to have ways to get us out of here. Mostly by giving the failed enterprises a blank check drawn on the US Treasury while the executives give themselves multi-million dollar bonuses. No free marketers those. Unfortunately, we cannot change the men at the helm until January 20, 2009. ONE HUNDRED FORTY-TWO DAYS AWAY.

Bottom line is ONLY big government can SAVE US. The cost being made all the greater by 30 years of tawdry economic thinking inspired by Chicago’s Milton Friedman and his goofy followers. Goofy but rich.

Sometimes I feel like Jeremiah the Weeping Prophet, but more often I feel like Robespierre who called for the guillotine! In 1793 Paris, everyone found wearing lace was beheaded. Fair enough!

[edit on 8/27/2008 by donwhite]

Ouch. Hm. I'd be careful of any comparisons to Robespierre. As I recall, things didn't work out too well for him.

reply to post by Justin Oldham


Only the good die young!

Alright, then. I shall declare victory and go home. Everybody have a good night. Let's see what sprouts here tomorrow.

reply to post by donwhite


I wish more people would come to this thread but hopefully they are at least reading if not posting- the conversation in here is in depth and decidedly civilized....Its hell out there in the political forums of ATS - what is interesting is though is watching people awake somewhat to the "new" (not so new but new to some) reality of life here in the U.S. - as things progress and the process of radicalization begins to flower (if it flowers as I think it will ) - it will make for some strange bedfellows - and folk who never expected to find themselves on the same side of the fence will begin to blur the boundaries that once kept them apart...

reply to post by realshanti

. . what is interesting though is watching people awake somewhat to the "new" (not so new but new to some) reality of life here in the U.S. - as things progress and the process of radicalization begins to flower (if it flowers as I think it will) - it will make for some strange bedfellows - and folk who never expected to find themselves on the same side of the fence will begin to blur the boundaries that once kept them apart ... [Bold added by DW]

Radicalization which I think means more than stuffing a ballot box, has some fundamental requirements. As is true in any army at war for every man or woman on the front line - under live fire - there must be several good men and true behind them to carry the ammo, to heat the food, to care for the wounded, to lay telephone lines, to gather intelligence, to make plans, to build fortifications, to blow up the enemy’s and to do all the other mundane tasks that must be done. General housekeeping.

The establishment OTOH already has in place 40 years of training gained in the drug wars at infiltration, deception, and transforming others into their service. A network of informants. Further, I have no doubt the establishment has a long list of names of informants and others ready to betray the trust of any wrong-doers. With that capability well developed and electronically coordinated country-wide it will prove relatively easy for the establishment to shift gears from fighting drugs to fighting the new radicals.

The only way I can see a radicalization having any chance of success is by it going underground. I don’t mean hiding in the Carlsbad Caverns or Mammoth Cave, but I do mean to “hide” in a community which is sufficiently anti-establishment and historically unlikely to inform on or betray the presence of the new freedom fighter, the radical. Satisfying this essential requirement points directly to people of color.

Oh sure, it's true Appalachian whites are not in regular communication with the establishment, nor are Rocky Mountain skin heads, but both are too far from the centers of gravity of our society to be significant front-line contributors. They might serve well as places of refuge for radicals who need time to “lay low” and recoup from overwork, capture and torture by the establishment, or just plain battle fatigue. A couple months up in the hills (or mountains) can be very refreshing.

The radicals will need to gain converts inside the establishment in the worst possible way. Inside information is essential to any dramatic plan’s chances of success. As you can see from these short paragraphs, radicalization is not going to be easy or quick. Nor will it come without a high price. Half of those who read this will likely not see the end. Perhaps we should all read Tom Paine’s “Common Sense” before we get into the mechanics of organizing a radical movement? And Gen. Sun Tzu too.

[edit on 8/28/2008 by donwhite]

Hello Realshanti. It's good to see you in here. We welcome all comers. You're welcome to come back any time you like. Partisanship is fun on nights and weekends, but it odesn't serve my purposes for regular everyday discussions. We've all got our own point of view on things, so we might as well use it. We can agree or disagree, and we can do it without blood on the floor...if we choose.

I thought that it was worth pointing out that that Don has put forward ideas on amending the US constitution here . This is worth noting because what is on offer is political solutions to problems rather then the likes of loony talk about revolting against the US government and so on .

reply to post by xpert11

I thought that it was worth pointing out that that Don has put forward ideas on amending the US constitution here . This is worth noting because what is on offer is political solutions to problems rather then the likes of loony talk about revolting against the US government and so on .

Thanks Mr X11, for the good words and the link to my thread. This thread was started by Mr J/O when he and I were discussing elsewhere the risk or possibility of a re-run of the Civilian Conservation Corps and the potential threat they might pose if under misguided leadershop.

CCC. A New Deal enterprise. Urban boys were inducted into a quasi military service corps, taken out to the national parks and put to hard sweat work clearing the woods, building trails, shelters, barbecue pits, rest rooms and other amenities to make camping out more pleasurable to city slickers.

The boys were paid $30 a month when the Army buck privates got $20. However, the CCC boys were required to remit $25 a month to their families and retained only $5 for themselves. A triple whammy! You got unemployed boys off the streets; you had them do constructive work; and their families got a monthly cash inflow to help out back home.

The CCC fell under sharp criticism (by Republicans) for bearing too much resemblance to the Hitler Youth in Movietone newsreels. You can still see their great work-product in 2008 in our National Parks.

Mr J/O - if he will let me speak for him - was also thinking about the 1960s decade when some pro civil rights advocates said of our cities, “Burn baby, burn!” I don’t know how many people were killed back then but I’m sure it was 99.44% blacks who bit the bullet!

As I recall, some 40 or so persons died in the Watts riots. All black. I don't recall much else.

I think that Don is right we will see some strange bedfellows. What we need to focus on, as I have said before is unity. Diversity is a tool of the PTB. They use it to drive a wedge into groups and take all focus off of themselves.

While I am not a proponent of Louis Farrakan[sp] I surely support many of his ideas for the men of his race. When we learn to look beyond color or religion then we will learn to defeat those that wish to enslave us.

There are many that have views that I may not agree with but we must first slay the dragon before we divide up the treasure.

Unity is the only way that we can overcome the beast that we have created. We must become more independent and learn to provide for ourselves. We must educate and work with those that are different, to achieve a common form of governance that all can prosper in.

respectfully

reluctantpawn

reply to post by reluctantpawn

While I am not a proponent of Louis Farrakhan I surely support many of his ideas for the men of his race. When we learn to look beyond color or religion then we will learn to defeat those that wish to enslave us. Unity is the only way that we can overcome the beast that we have created.

I have no quarrel with Rev. Farrakhan (now ill) but for his endless anti-Semitic
pronouncements. Would it be that the causes of the angry vicissitudes of life were so simple to identify. And by necessary Hitlerian inference, to remedy!

I ask you to elaborate further on the “beast” we have created.

We must become more independent and learn to provide for ourselves. We must educate and work with those that are different, to achieve a common form of governance that all can prosper in.

I’m not much into “ . . become more independent . . ” Or “ . . to provide for ourselves.” Unless that is, you are referring to all 303 million Americans as one entity. Self-sufficiency on the one to one level is impossible in the world of 2008 and beyond. But working together is NOT contra-indicated. Just the opposite. Cooperation by working together - all 6.5 billion of us - and growing to 8 billion - is the only way we can make life tenable for most of us. But not for all of us. Sadly. Note: In the 1970s a self-correcting Earth was postulated. A positive (or negative) feedback loop. As temperature rose, the krill declined, and ultimately as in the Chaos Theory, the butterfly effect, until the Earth cools, and more krill grow and etc and etc. By Robert Schenk. ingrimayne.com...

Warning: Do not neglect to review this website if you followed the above link. www.chem1.com...

[edit on 9/4/2008 by donwhite]

The beast to which I am inferring is the corporation known as the United States.

As to independence, we need to realize that the people are the govt. The people should fully have representation in congress. I see that you support this with your proposed amendments.

Without a doubt no man is an Island but there are too many entitlements handed out, while too little education is going on. Civics is no longer taught in schools today. Neither is basic government.

When people take control of their lives via their checkbook for those that have them and not rely on someone else to bail them out. We will overcome part of our problems and help slay the "beast" or corporate greed, in this case.

When organizations teach the poor and underclass the power of a strong education, proper money management, and political responsibility, we will start to see a changed environment.

When we start to stand up for the "family", and see parental responsibility come around. When we see discipline come back into the school system. Instead of pure attendance being the requirement for graduation. [attendance brings forth money]When fathers take a more active part in child rearing. When the churches start to provide for the needs of the community by taking care of those in need. Then we will gain our independence from the beast.

Remember the KY motto" United We Stand Divided We Fall"

respectfully

reluctantpawn

Reluctantpawn gets a star, and I want to see what Don has to say next. I've made this case many times, and I'm glad to see it being raised again.

reply to post by solo1

Why would white folks down in NO be partying and not lending a hand to their Neighbors? What is wrong with the people in NO? I do not see humanity in NO.

Now to this day nothing has changed down in NO.

When they came for the Negroes I did not do anything
when they came for the Chinese I did not do anything
When they came for the Native I did not do anything
when they came for me no one was left to help me
[Paraphrasing Martin Niemoeller]

The people today in New Orleans ARE not Americans I don't know where they came from but they sure as hell are not Americans. IF Americans do not start standing hand in hand regardless of station in life color creed or Religion. they are not worthy of freedom nor to be called Americans. You’re on your last stand, hanging by a thread ,and all I see are dark eyes and apathy. you reap what you sow and you are sowing today your destruction and pissing away your dream . .

From the marker in Germany:
They came first for the Communists
And I did not speak up because I was not a communist
They came next for the Jews
And I did not speak up because I was not a Jew
They came next for the trade unionists
And I did not speak up because I was not a trade unionist
They came next for the Catholics
And I did not speak up because I was a Protestant
They came next for me
And by that time there was no one left to speak up for me.
Martin Niemoeller

Foot note. There are several versions extant, but Mr. Niemoeller liked this one best. From Wikipedia.

Camaraderie. Shared suffering. It is so elementary, it is the tactic employed in all military basic training programs. For those of you who have not served, let me rehash it. On your first arrival to camp, base, post or station - each branch has its own name - you are run about until you are exhausted. Then on your first night, you are awakened about 2 AM to “clean the quarters!” In the AF there are “flights” of 72 men each. 2 drill instructors. If one man makes a mistake, EVERYONE does it over. Until he gets it right. If ONE guy spits out his gum, EVERYONE gets down on his hands and knees and police's the area. Police in military lingo means to pick up all non-living things on the ground for proper disposal.

You double-time - a half running cadence - everywhere you go. You are worked hard physically and tested constantly mentally but all the time it is GROUP THINK, GROUP DO, GROUP SPEAK, GROUP SHARE. See Foot Note 1.

By the end of your basic training, you are 72 comrades united against the SYSTEM as was exemplified by the two drill instructors who some of you may really HATE. But they - the DIs - have succeeded because ALL of you SHARE each other’s misery. Getting started in the military takes about 2 weeks of HARD drilling. Thereafter you can be taught anything you need for your particular job. But when you hear the world "ATTENTION" you will snap to instantly. And you will work together, and NOT independently.

The WHOLE is worth more than the sum of its PARTS.

I also hold to the theory that HIGH TAX RATES will unite a country quicker than anything. No one cares to hear me recite these OLD time facts, but during World War Two, the US adopted a War Tax Rate. The TOP bracket was 91%! Yes, you got to keep 9% of your income over $200,000. (Equal to about $5 million today). This forces the R&Fs - rich and famous - to think about things OTHER than making money.

That top bracket tax rate was not lowered until JFK became president in 1961. Then it was reduced to 70%! That rate in turn was not lowered until Nixon became president. Then it was cut to 50%! That it turn was not lowered until Reagan became president and it was cut to 28%. I think it is 33% today. And the country has gone to hell in a hand basket. To paraphrase another adage.

If people have TOO MUCH MONEY, they go crazy. Like a drunk. They become selfish. Everything is ME THINK, and nothing is WE THINK.

And just think, with the extra revenue we could begin to pay down the national debt. We could rebuild our national infrastructure such as bridges that fall down. Roads that are worn out. Did you know that US interstates are built to a 20-30 years life expectancy? Whereas the German autobahns are built to a 50-75 years life expectancy?

There is nothing wrong with either choice but our system is at the end of its PROJECTED LIFE. This same principle applies to most everything we build here. Houses are built for 50 years. You can visit 1000s of homes in Europe that are more than 500 years old. Some of the great cathedrals in Europe took more than 200 years to build. Can you imagine the devotion, the dedication it must have taken for 10 successive generations of people to keep up working on such a long time project? We can hardly imagine that here because our WHOLE country just celebrated its 400th anniversary.

To paraphrase, the people who are TAXED together, STAY together. Or, common misery breeds a commonweal!


Foot Note 1. You may learn to sing Monkey Drill as you march. “I’ve got a girl up on the hill, she won’t do it but her sister will” and so on. One group singing I recall was:
“I was just a country boy, a-workin’ on the farm,
along came Uncle Sammy and took me by the arm,
to this war, this wicked war.
They gave me an M1 rifle, they took me to the range,
I fired a million bullets but I never hit a thing,
in this war, this wicked war.”
You’ll have to make up your own tune.

[edit on 9/5/2008 by donwhite]

The conservatorship of Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac brings me back to my central point, which is that economic factors will play a very large role in disaffecting an entire generation of potential radicals. The failure of our nation's two largest mortgage lenders underscores the point I've been making since I first joined ATS. The hard times are coming ,and a lot of people are going to get very mean.

Will our government be willing to distinguish between terrorists and the disposessed? I don't think our leaders will be willing to make the distinction. I think it will be too convenient for them to roll them up in to one allegedly large-er threat.

reply to post by Justin Oldham

The conservator-ship of Fanny Mae and Freddie Mac brings me back to my central point, which is that economic factors will play a very large role in disaffecting an entire generation of potential radicals. The failure of our nation's two largest mortgage lenders underscores the point I've been making since I first joined ATS. The hard times are coming ,and a lot of people are going to get very mean. Will our government be willing to distinguish between terrorists and the dispossessed?

Current National Debt $9,791,574,504,213.
National Debt under Clinton $5,676,989,904,887.
Added to National Debt by Bush43, $4,114,5 84,5 99,326
Average amount added to debt, each year, $536,651,000,000
(I used 7.667 as the number of years)

Just last week we were warned the combined losses US Taxpayers might sustain from Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac was $3 t. to $5 t. Today we are “bailing out” the failed INVESTMENT banks - a misnomer - and other lending institutions but NOT yet are we up to Freddie Mac or Fannie Mae. That’s out there yet.

Add $700 b. to the debt. Add $2 b. a day for general operating budget debt until January 20, 2009, about 85 days, $170 b. more. And others have estimated we will of necessity expend about $.5 t. just to GET OUT of Iraq. And Afghan.

So Bush43 has bequeathed to YOUR grandchildren about FIVE TRILLION SEVEN HUNDRED BILLION IN DEBT. At 4.5% annually that will “cost” about $256.5 billion a year in interest.

Now what could your grandchildren do with $256 billion a year? Instead of what could they do with it, you must figure what will they do WITHOUT it. America is already the ONLY country in the industrialized world where its average college graduate is in debt to about $60,000. Post baccalaureate degrees leave the new graduate in debt about $150,000. On average.

Bridges are falling down here, but they will have to send their money to China and Saudi Arabia. The Bush43 legacy will join the Reagan legacy as a damnable heritage for future generation to bear.

NO Greatest Generation we! We are the Shucking Generation thanks to Bush43 and Newt Gingrich. Don’t forget Newt. He and his Contract with America gets about 45% of the credit for this fiasco.
www.brillig.com...

[edit on 9/26/2008 by donwhite]