World Changing Events About To Take Place

Originally posted by ThreeNF
www.thereisnogod.info...

Horrible, horrible argument. And that's all I'm going to say for now.

Here is one more to put the nail in your coffin Ash

A Babylonian Survival
As these authorities have revealed, the Trinity doctrine is not based upon the clear teachings of the Bible, but is fashioned piecemeal from selected verses that are said to allude to a Trinity.

The simple fact is, the doctrine of a Trinity was not initially taught by the early church. The teaching was contrived to replicate the trinitarian beliefs of incoming pagan converts. Abundantly common in pagan religions is the concept of a trinity. Early converts from paganism generally had worshiped a triad of deities. (see pp. 10-11)

In his book, The Two Babylons, Alexander Hislop traces the origin of the Trinity idea to the mother of all pagan concepts, Babylon. Summing up a lengthy study of historical evidence, Hislop concludes:

"Will any one after this say that the Roman Catholic Church must still be called Christian, because it holds the doctrine of the Trinity? So did the Pagan Babylonians, so did the Egyptians, so do the Hindoos at this hour, in the very sense in which Rome does" (p. 90).

From the Encyclopedia of Religion and Ethics (Trinity, p. 458) we read, "Although the notion of a divine Triad or Trinity is characteristic of the Christian religion, it is by no means peculiar to it. In Indian religion we meet with the trinitarian group of Brahma, Siva, and Visnu; and in Egyptian religion with the trinitarian group of Osiris, Isis, and Horus, constituting a divine family, like the Father, Mother and Son in mediaeval Christian pictures."

The Trinity doctrine incorporated a pagan concept embraced long before Christianity by ancient heathens of foreign lands. On page 595 of The Story of Civilization (vol.III), noted historian Will Durant provides these revelations, "Christianity did not destroy paganism; it adopted it... The Greek language, having reigned for centuries over philosophy, became the vehicle of Christian literature and ritual; the Greek mysteries passed down into the impressive mystery of the Mass. Other pagan cultures contributed to the syncretist result. From Egypt came the ideas of a divine Trinity."

reply to post by kozmo


ok, makes more sense, it definately a great take on it

but just seems to vague a match for it

on the other hand I could be wrong, or us both

Originally posted by tacticaljay
reply to post by kozmo

 

Thank you for your response. I must say I've never heard of this Ronald person. Where can I read a little about his beliefs? I'm intrigued to know more.

Again, let me prefice by saying that I do know what to make of this gentleman. I have read his books and his forebear's books several times and find them to be most complete and accurate... in my opinion... of the interpretations of Revelations and the Bible in general.

His name is Ronald Weinland and he will send you his two books: The Prophesied End-Time and 2008 - God's Final Witness completely FREE of charge! He is not the best author but these two books make for a fascinating read - especially if you have read The Bible as many times as I have and still find it hard to make sense of it.

reply to post by kozmo


The only reason why its hard to make sense of it is because you are reading it with the churches teachings in the back of your mind. It will never make sense that way! And thats the way they prefer it don't let anyone fool you, if you understand it you don't need them..

Personally, I hope the World Changing Event that is mentioned is the awakening of the population to the control mechanisms, like Christianity, that are used to keep the people from being creative and imaginative and engaging in self realization. Hopefully the people of the world will over throw the system that keeps them as slave.

At the very least, I would like religious organizations to loose their 'non-profit' standing in regard to taxes. Imagine the boon to the coffers of the IRS if donating to these money cults were not considered tax write offs. I am not against faith, just 'organized religion'.

It is my belief that every supposed Christian that attempts to preach the gospels or convert anyone to their faith, is actually against Christ, and in sin. Remember the WWJD? chinese made friendship bracelet fad? I wonder how many supposed Christians took that message to heart, and how many are walking around fooling themselves. Just because you identify yourself as Christian, doesn't mean that your actions support that statement.

What Would Jesus Do?

He sure as hell wouldn't be trying to convert 'non-believers' on a conspiracy website. Anyone who disagrees needs to seriously re-examine their life, and the way that they live it.

DocMoreau

Originally posted by DocMoreau
Personally, I hope the World Changing Event that is mentioned is the awakening of the population to the control mechanisms, like Christianity, that are used to keep the people from being creative and imaginative and engaging in self realization. Hopefully the people of the world will over throw the system that keeps them as slave.

1) The Christian faith is already being "overthrown" by society and look what has happened. Compare Western civilization to 60 years ago when true Christianity (not today's watered-down Gospel or the middle age's corrupt and downright evil Catholic system) was the norm and marvel at the our civilization's decay.

2) This "controlling system" is pretty powerless to the majority of Christians who don't even attend church. Myself included.

3) Some great scientific minds and inventors have been Christian so there goes the creative and imaginative argument.

4) One does not have to toss out logic to have spiritual beliefs. They go hand in hand.

5) Hospitals and higher eduction were created by Christianity. So much for the accusation of trying to keep the masses ignorant like the Catholic system of the dark ages that put to death true Christians who demanded access to the Scriptures and in turn could have proved the false doctrine and attitudes completely wrong.

6) Read the Bible. God detests corrupt and controlling systems.

[edit on 1/3/2008 by AshleyD]

Originally posted by AshleyD

Originally posted by ThreeNF
www.thereisnogod.info...

Horrible, horrible argument. And that's all I'm going to say for now.

I believe in Rael's message. I believe it provides far more hope for humanity than any other "religion" out there. That's my belief and I'm entitled to it

My wife is catholic and she see things like you do to some extent. Part of the problem is that she was drilled with the Catholic philosophy while growing up. It was all she was told and she doesn't want to think any other way, out of fear that her "God" will not tolerate it. Quite clever those Catholic priests are - control people by using fear

For those you interested in the Raelian Movement, be sure to check out the Seminar in Las Vegas this Spring - and no, it isn't a big orgy However, Raelians are very sensual and if more people were sensual like them, there would be no hate

reply to post by ThreeNF


I'm familiar with the Raelian movement but all it basically is (and of course this is my opinion), is a belief that tells people what they want to hear. It appeases their "itching ears" (to quote a Bible phrase used to describe the people's religious beliefs in the end times). I'm not going to criticize it, though, because it's not my place. However, I strongly do not believe it is not the truth. And I'd rather discover the truth (even if it's not pretty or what I want it to be) instead of being blissfully ignorant by creating my own reality.

As for Catholicism, that isn't my game either so I understand your occasional frustration with it.

[edit on 1/3/2008 by AshleyD]

reply to post by AshleyD

Ok Ashley Im' going leave you alone now. I don't want you to think I'm picking on you. If what you believe helps you sleep better at nite cool, I just want every one to take note that at this very moment the world is a chess board wheather you like it or not moves are being made. We are losing badly and as long as people continue to be SHEEPPLE their is no chance in HEAVEN or HELL that we are going to win. You don't believe it Ash look at the symbols on the back of the dollar bill, don't take my word for it look it up!

video.google.com...


[edit on 1/3/2008 by XcLuciFer]

reply to post by AshleyD


Did you even read my post?

I never said that I don't have faith, or spiritual beliefs, or whatever catch phrase you want to label it as.

rebuttal to your strawman arguments that totally disregarded my previous post.

1.) I never mentioned an overthrow. I stated that it is my hope that people who consider themselves Christians, who have been duped, lied to, what have you, that they wake up. Instead, you try to harken back to an idyllic time 60 years ago. I don't want an overthrow, with Christianity 'reforming' itself again and again already.

I want people, individual human beings, to be able to realize that they don't need a religion to have a relationship with God, and that they don't need to share that relationship with anyone but god.

2.) I beg to differ. The 'controlling system' is all powerful to all Christians who say that they are Christian. By claiming that label, you are aligning yourself with the entire Christian movement, even if you are Protestant and your neighbor Catholic, you are still barking up the same tree. If you still read the Bible, especially the KJV, you are under their control. You also throw in the fact 'that you don't go to church'. Which I find as ironic. You are devoted enough to come to a conspiracy website to perpetuate your religion, but admit that you are a 'bad Christian' by not attending Church. Maybe you should spend more time in church with those who have similar views as you... Makes more sense to me.

3.) Classic example of Strawman Arguing.
Name the countless scientific minds and inventors, and how they viewed their Beliefs. I can't. I can name numerous scientists and inventors, who may or may not have been Christian, who never let their beliefs and faith leave the privacy of their home. Their work is what was important. Also, when I was referring to Creativity and Imagination, I was thinking more along the lines of arts and music, but also the acknowledgment of self in the process. You try to say that because of a few Christian Scientists, that the argument is over. Really? I would think that you would have to actually provide examples of self realized professional creative types, who also make it a point to let it be know that they were followers of Christ.

4.) No one tossed out logic, except for the people who blindly embrace any theme fanatically. In this case, I don't really see what you are trying to say, except that you think that I am accusing Christians of 'tossing out logic'. My argument for the most part is this: Christianity is not special, your god is the same as their god, if there is a god. Also, a majority of the people who claim to be Christian, often are contradicting the acts motives of Jesus with their Evangelizing.

5.) Hospitals and Higher Education were created by Christianity? Are you sure about that? I think that your bigoted worldview seems to neglect the Chinese. If you need me to lead you by the hand, I will, but I recommend looking into Chinese Medicine dating back thousands of years. Maybe if you spent less time evangelizing and more time reading your history, you would be aware of, and more respectful of others.

6.) Read the Bible, huh? Which version? The version authorized by the King of England, so that he could keep the English Catholic's from overthrowing him? In what language? Old Testament in Hebrew? I am sorry, but your comment is disrespectful stating that I don't know the bible well enough to know that God detests corruption or whatever you said exactly. But you were able to evangelize once again by telling us to read our bibles.


Perhaps I won't ever reach you, you seem like you have resigned your self to being labeled something that you really aren't. That you are okay with perpetuating stereotypes, and unwilling to respectfully listen when others tell you are wrong. Not wrong in your beliefs, but in how you are trying to 'spread the word'

'Spreading the word' is the part that is wrong, not the feeling akin to Jesus because you feel 'spiritual'.

Best wishes trying to get in,
DocMoreau

Like John Titor...I too am from the future and I am here to tell all of you......"Ain't not a one of you's got it right!"

Back to 2058 I go......

Shalom

reply to post by DocMoreau


I love it!!! I can feel that LOL!!! don't post anything else Ash just leave it alone.

Originally posted by DocMoreau
1.) I never mentioned an overthrow.

Quoted from your above reply: "Hopefully the people of the world will over throw the system that keeps them as slave."

You not only mentioned the concept you used the exact terminology. I also believe it is evident I understood your intention as not being literal by putting overthrow in quotes.

I stated that it is my hope that people who consider themselves Christians, who have been duped, lied to, what have you, that they wake up.

On one part I agree with you. But it also depends on who you are implying has been duped and what they were duped with.

Instead, you try to harken back to an idyllic time 60 years ago.

I never once referred to it as idyllic or even implied that it was idyllic. I pointed out the fact that society has declined in 60 years and how it coincides with the recession of Christianity and Christian values. Now who is using the strawman tactic? And whether or not you want to connect this with the decline of Christianity (in fact, just for argument's sake let's completely take that out of the equation) no one can deny how much we have declined in 60 years.

I want people, individual human beings, to be able to realize that they don't need a religion to have a relationship with God, and that they don't need to share that relationship with anyone but god.

On this point I wholeheartedly agree and have mentioned this on other threads. Rites, rituals, and religious dogma is not the answer.

2.) I beg to differ. The 'controlling system' is all powerful to all Christians who say that they are Christian.

If you are referring to being under the dominion of an all powerful God, then yes. If you are talking about a controlling man-made system, then no.

If you still read the Bible, especially the KJV, you are under their control.

The KJV is actually my least favorite translation as it is too antiquated in its translations. This is also something I am pretty outspoken about and many Christians disagree with me but it is an inarguable fact the English language has changed over 400 years and that new studies in language have provided us with more accurate translations.

You also throw in the fact 'that you don't go to church'. Which I find as ironic. You are devoted enough to come to a conspiracy website to perpetuate your religion, but admit that you are a 'bad Christian' by not attending Church. Maybe you should spend more time in church with those who have similar views as you... Makes more sense to me.

Since I don't have enough room, I will address this in a moment.

3.) Classic example of Strawman Arguing.

Not remotely. You basically implied religion (and unsurprisingly only mentioned Christianity in your post) stifles creativity and imagination. You will need to provide evidence to support this. Too many brilliant minds have had spiritual beliefs. And considering many (if not most) inventions and scientific theories originated in the West (which was mainly Christian) not to mention brilliant artists and authors, it is up to you to provide the evidence as you made the claim.

Also, when I was referring to Creativity and Imagination, I was thinking more along the lines of arts and music, but also the acknowledgment of self in the process.

You're implying Christians aren't in the professions of art, music, or psychology and sociology.

Not all of us are ministers or have faith related professions.

4.) No one tossed out logic, except for the people who blindly embrace any theme fanatically

I'm glad we agree. I prefer to approach religion as systematically as possible.

Christianity is not special, your god is the same as their god, if there is a god.

That is your opinion but the Bible is the only religious text that validates itself. If you want me to elaborate, I'll be happy to send you to link of my comments on other posts but for the time being I will refrain.

Also, a majority of the people who claim to be Christian, often are contradicting the acts motives of Jesus with their Evangelizing.

I agree with you and am very vocal about my stance concerning these pseudo-Christians you refer to.

5.) Hospitals and Higher Education were created by Christianity? Are you sure about that?

The only thing I can do in this area is encourage you to do some research concerning these two. Did Christians create medical care or education? Of course not, but check out some information and the history of hospitals and education. Even something as simple as Wikipedia might help although it's never my favorite source.

6.) Read the Bible, huh? Which version? The version authorized by the King of England, so that he could keep the English Catholic's from overthrowing him? In what language? Old Testament in Hebrew?

I've already expressed my opinion on the KJV but yes, the Hebrew and Greek is always the best source. Of course, not many can read it so I suggest the use of lexicons. But the issue is deeper than this. Regardless of the translation, some words change meaning but the the message of salvation never changes. As I've said before, we can get into some major textual criticism if we want to but the basic message of the Bible is to get from point A to point B in terms of salvation.

But you were able to evangelize once again by telling us to read our bibles.

Another case of word twisting. In other words, if you have issues with fallible men that claim to represent God, then go to the source which happens to be the Bible (since we are discussing Christianity). If we were discussing Islam I would have pointed you to the Koran. If we were discussing Hinduism, I would have referred you to the Vedic writings. Remember, you used Christianity as your specific example. It had nothing to do with proselytizing and you used yet another strawman tactic.

'Spreading the word' is the part that is wrong

Go back and read this thread carefully. Did I ever bring up a topic that had not been mentioned by another author? No I did not. Not that it isn't my right to do so but I'm almost certain every reply of mine to this thread was in response to someone else's comment either to answer a question or rebut an argument. You'll have to try again.

[edit on 1/3/2008 by AshleyD]

[edit on 1/3/2008 by AshleyD]

You are devoted enough to come to a conspiracy website to perpetuate your religion. Maybe you should spend more time in church with those who have similar views as you... Makes more sense to me.

Now onto this discriminatory remark. I am not here to "perpetuate my religion." As you stated, anyone out to win converts on a website needs to reevaluate their life.

Again, not that it isn't my right as a member of this site, but I do not even have any original threads and this is mainly because I don't feel the need to proselytize in any way. And even in the threads I do reply to, almost all of my comments are in response to someone else.

It would seem that someone with a mission to join a board in order to perpetuate their beliefs or at the very least wanted to share them with everyone at any cost would be interested in starting at least one thread to discuss them. Or someone wanting to evangelize their beliefs would at least visit the Beliefs forum on BTS- a forum where I have not made one single comment or thread. Why not? Because I'd rather discuss ideas instead of preach them. Even when I said I was backing out of the religious discussion, people kept asking me questions so I answered. It's rare that I make the first move so to speak.

Let's get back to the other issue as to your false conclusion that a Christian on a conspiracy board must be here to thump their Bible around and that they would feel more comfortable in a church with their "own kind."

If religion was a forbidden topic on this site, then there would not be a board for religious conspiracies on ATS and a Beliefs forum on BTS. I could say the same thing about other belief groups. Why don't all those who are members of a certain secret society stop discussing secret societies and instead socialize with their "own kind" at their respective lodge meetings.

Because we all have a right to be here and to discuss the topics. Period.

Originally posted by XcLuciFer
I love it!!! I can feel that LOL!!! don't post anything else Ash just leave it alone.

Why not? What's the point of a discussion board if something cannot be discussed? It is only because I have an opinion you don't agree with. I couldn't imagine being so dense or having the audacity to tell someone please don't participate in a certain discussion because I don't agree with your beliefs. You might lose interest in a topic and feel like stepping out but to say my view is going to have the last word so don't even bother replying is nonsense.

Originally posted by AshleyD
Why don't all those who are members of a certain secret society stop discussing secret societies and instead socialize with their "own kind" at their respective lodge meetings.

That wasn't directed at me I hope!!

[edit on 1/3/2008 by XcLuciFer]

[edit on 1/3/2008 by XcLuciFer]

[edit on 1/3/2008 by XcLuciFer]