New Footage of Bhutto's death

Originally posted by goosdawg
I would venture to guess the bomber was sent to take out the shooter.
No shooter, no link back to the government. snip.

That same thought was running through my brain earlier today, very possible.... but why would "assasins" go to that extent in the first place... unless they wanted to eliminate the identity of the trigger man? Maybe. Just a small part in the grander scheme of things.

I recall reading somewhere that the police had the area roped off and were frisking people before they started the parade, which would make it very hard for someone with a pistola or a vest of c4 to make it through, unless of course... they might have had the necessary clearances to get near Bhutto. They already knew she was in an armored Landcruiser... so bring in someone close. Buyable theory.


so the stew thickens....

The Telemetry

reply to post by ipsedixit



thats an interesting theory and could hold water since Sharif has had connections with Al qaeda previously and Bin laden has given money to him for his campaign.

In October 1990, Nawaz Sharif is running for election to replace Benazir Bhutto as the prime minister of Pakistan. According to a senior Pakistani intelligence source, bin Laden passes a considerable amount of money to Sharif and his party, since Sharif promises to introduce a hard-line Islamic government. Bin Laden has been supporting Sharif for several years. There is said to be a photograph of Sharif chatting with bin Laden.

www.cooperativeresearch.org... criptions=on&dosearch=on

However, recently Sharif said this.

On December 27, in a CNN interview just hours after the assassination of former Pakistan Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto, Sharif said: "This is not a sad day. This is the darkest and gloomiest day in the history of our country." Amidst the shock of the death of former Pakistani Prime Minister Benazir Bhutto Sharif had announced that he would boycott the January 8, Pakistani general elections. Sharif called for President Pervez Musharraf to resign due to the lack of security leading up to Benazir Bhutto's death. Sharif rushed to the hospital where Bhutto was transported, sitting beside her body and comforting her supporters. Sharif called Bhutto his sister and vowed to avenge her death

en.wikipedia.org...

it would appear to me that the Musharraf regime has alot to gain from the opposition out of the way, he did in fact come to power in a coup, suspended the constitution, declared martial law, and previously had Sharif deported when he first tried to return to pakistan. he seems to be willing to do anything to stay in power.
But the ISI could be doing this behind Musharraf's back to kinda frame him and plunge the country to chaos to allow more extremists to come to power. Musharraf did vow to help the US fight the war on terror, bin laden has said..

(CNN) -- An audio message from al Qaeda leader Osama bin Laden released Thursday called on Muslims to "carry out jihad" against Pakistan's president, Gen. Pervez Musharraf.

edition.cnn.com...

Here is another version of the same clip with diffrent comentary and perspective.
The reporters state that she was without a doubt shot.
www.liveleak.com...

I'm sorry, I am having a hard time finding the video link on the channel 4 page, can someone either post it or tell me where to find it.

NM didn't see the live leak cut. Sure looks like she gets hit, but I don't see a spray of blood or stuff like that. Sounds and looks like the second shot is the one that hits her. Also I notice that the whole crowd seems to move/flinch at the same time.


I think they should exhume her body, I wonder why her family and party don't request that?




[edit on 31-12-2007 by pavil]

[edit on 31-12-2007 by pavil]

Originally posted by pavil
I think they should exhume her body, I wonder why her family and party don't request that?]

At the morgue and during the funeral preperations, photos were taken by a medical examiner and thus a cause of death was determined as well as documented in the usual C.S.I. fashion.

So exhuming her body would prove nothing.

Besides if you know these people and their religion, you just cant do that.

[edit on 31-12-2007 by IvanZana]

[edit on 31-12-2007 by IvanZana]

Originally posted by IvanZana
At the morgue and during the funeral preperations, photos were taken by a medical examiner and thus a cause of death was determined as well as documented in the usual C.S.I. fashion.

So how does the doctor totally miss the alleged shots that hit her then? the difference between a bullet piercing and her hitting a handle should have been pretty dramatic. What good is a coverup when you initally state it in the first place? Kinda blows the "hush it up" aspect of the thing.

The Xray is problematic as well, showing no bullet shrapnel. I do have to say the video sure looks like she gets struck with the second shot fired.

This gets wierder by the day.

I cant see the family being involved, i mean... history shows they have all had a stake in ruling pakistan, have all taken the consequences of actions in regards to being a ruler of pakistan...

The gunmen that has appeared in the still photos look very very western.
The shades, the suit, the haircut, the skin colour.
He is NOT A islamic fundamentalist.
HE stands out in that crowed, I have my money on him being security detail, someone that bhutto THOUGHT was in the crowd as a body guard or something of the such.
She should of immediately singled him out as suspicous, but he managed to be close enough to fire 2 kill shots.

The bomber and the shooter were definately seperate attempts.
Why even bother with a handgun, peopel can live from multiple gun shot wounds..... you could easily get 2x people with explosive belts on either sides of the car, in arab garb and no one would be the wiser

the first attack almost succeeded, but she lived.
she stood up out of the car and made for a perfect suicide bomb attempt.

No, the bomber was sent to take out the gunmen.

He stood out so much and didnt try to hide his gun,all the bhutto supporters would surely of detained him ( citizens arrest ) and paraded him on TV. Bing, the games up.. he would of fingered whom ever sent him.

Now, was the bomber sent in with the instructions to murder the shooter? or just to blow himself up?
Maybe they picked someone decidingly nervous, knowing he'd detonate out of fear?
Or maybe they told him '' if anything at all happens that causes major concern, you detonate in HOPE of killing her ''

The gunmen wasnt meant to be photographed, and he was never going to come out alive.

The photos of him came out AFTER the government claimed it was a head clash...

so maybe they beleived nothing existed to finger a gunmen... the body was buried, a bomb went off causing major losss of evidence... maybe they believed they could get away with a head strike, thus removing the martyr complex?

Sadly, I think they made a critical error.

Alqaeda have today denied involvement.
Bhutto suggested elements within the government would try to get her.
The governemnt refused to provide adequette security also.

Me?

I believe musharraf definately had a hand in orchestrating it.
He purposley didnt provide the correct guard.
Bush, probably not aware of whats coming, probably prefers Musharraf in power, simply because he isnt pushing to hard on an alqaeda investigation in the border region. ( America cant be found out about binladen can it )

So, the US doesnt push the issue to hard, releases teh same drab '' we condemn this terrible act '' BS....

My guess...

Elections will be indefinately postponed.
And this event will dissappear of the western media, with vague reports now and then that
'' pakistan intellegence are on the trail of alqaeda, and assisting their glorious allies the USA ''

Something 'ELSE' is going to happen in Pakistan. something that will implement Musharraf in remaining.

Also, Something has to happen right now for the Bush Administration.
Iraq is starting to calm down, While Iran is starting to relax in its rhetoric.
If indeed Iran and the ME is in the scope of the neo-cons...

Something will occur BEFORE the elections in Pakistan ( which is stated for 3-4 months away )

Because we need Musharraf.

The theory that the gunman could have been one of Bhutto's own security people has some merit. There are precedents for such scenarios, like the attempted assassination of Hitler by some of his own people (using a bomb in an attache case), and the Egyptian soldiers who killed their own leader -- President Sadat. There are doubtless other cases that you the reader may recall. The point remains, however, that it is sometimes those who are trusted most who pose the greatest threat...

Quite independent of the above, one thing is pretty certain: the shooter would have to have understood that he had no chance whatsoever of getting away. And far from being captured and paraded before cameras at some later date, it's also pretty likely that Bhutto's adoring supporters would at the very least have turned on him with extreme violence and perhaps even killed him. (There is not much evidence of an effective police/security presence -- certainly not in sufficient numbers to "protect" this man from an enraged mob.) However, even his dead body could present a problem, as it could be identified. Knowing, then, what his likely fate would be -- and knowing also that if his body were identified it might lead investigations back to the original planners of the whole thing -- the obvious solution was to take actions that would make it impossible for him to be identified.

A bomb set off a few feet away would take care of that.

I doubt that the bomber's purpose was to inflict damage on Bhutto's vehicle (and kill its occupants), for it was well armoured and in fact, none of its other occupants were injured by the ensuing blast. (One of her aides who was in the vehicle said so in an interview and pics of the inside of the vehicle only show bloodstains where Bhutto had fallen.) It makes sense that the planners would have been aware that she was travelling in an armoured vehicle and that their relatively small explosive device would probably not kill its occupants. So, I'd go along with the suggestion that the bomber was there to "obliterate" the shooter after he'd fired, irrespective of whether he hit his "target" or not. I do not think that the bomber panicked; it seems to me that he did exactly what he was there to do, exactly when he had to do it. Apparently the authorities have not been able to identify remains of the shooter. I recall they said so themselves -- before they changed their story and denied Bhutto had been shot, that is...

One poster made the point that at least 20 other people lost their lives in this murderous act as well. How many others were maimed, physically and or emotionally, is something that barely rates a mention in the media. I agree that they are equally victims -- perhaps even more so -- and I lack the words to express the depths of my contempt for "people" who will randomly murder others, no matter what "justification" they or their leaders may give.



[edit on 31-12-2007 by JustMike]

Who cares about videos ? They already know who did it : "the terrorists".
No need for an investigation

Originally posted by pai mei
Who cares about videos ? They already know who did it : "the terrorists".
No need for an investigation

This new footage was just released and it was reported on CNN this morning. Now thanks to this footage its clear how Bhutto died.
Not by hitting her head on the sunroof as the Pakastan government claimed.

John Roberts from CNN also said that the doctor was pressured in agreeing with the government- that Bhutto died from hitting her head. Don't know if he just added that himself or as a fact.

Bhutto had one body-guard and many supporters. The government blocked her from hiring anyone to protect her. No one should ever been able to get that close to the truck that Bhutto was in.

Musharif needs to step down as president asap and be tried for high crimes. He gave her hassle ever since she came back in October. Put her on house arrest then call martial law.

What better way to take care of a political opponant that very well could have replaced him as President in the upcoming elections by having a hand in her murder.

Doctors afraid of voicing their direct observations and a husband afraid of exhumation because he distrusts the government of Mussharif.



5 x 3 cm, oval shaped sure sounds like a bullet wound to me.

New details of Benazir Bhutto’s final moments, including indications that her doctors felt pressured to conform to government accounts of her death

-snip-

...the doctors believed that an autopsy was needed to provide the answers to how she actually died. Their request for one last Thursday was denied by the local police chief.

-snip-

...Mohammad Mussadiq Khan, the principal professor of surgery at the Rawalpindi General Hospital, told him on the night of Ms. Bhutto’s death that she had died of a bullet wound.

-snip-

At a news conference Sunday, Ms. Bhutto’s husband, Asif Ali Zardari, said he had declined a request for a post-mortem examination. “It was an insult to my wife, an insult to the sister of the nation, an insult to the mother of the nation,” he said. “I know their forensic reports are useless. I refuse to give them her last remains.”

-snip-

He said he refused because he did not trust the government investigation to prove the cause of her death

www.nytimes.com...

Also in the above story... a description of the clothing worn by the gunman (which indicates that of an agent) plus a description of the bomber.

[imo]Two different agendas played one after the other by intelligence sources working to eradicate a common threat.[/imo]

I think this belongs in this thread, forgive me if this has already been posted there have been so many conflicting reports on Bhutto's death.

this new information says the Pakistani police prevented the hospital from performing an autopsy which according to the article violates the country's law.

My question is if the government is really NOT complicit why are they violating their own laws to prevent a fair investigation on the cause of death?

Lawyer: Police prevented Bhutto autopsy

Rawalpindi's police chief stopped doctors at the hospital where Benazir Bhutto died from conducting an autopsy, according to a lawyer on the hospital's board.

It was a violation of Pakistani criminal law and prevented a medical conclusion about what killed the former prime minister, said Athar Minallah, a lawyer who serves on the board that manages Rawalpindi General Hospital.

ed:sp

[edit on 12/31/2007 by JacKatMtn]

Originally posted by JustMike
The theory that the gunman could have been one of Bhutto's own security people has some merit.

There was a report that one of Bhutto's aides, who was in the vehicle behind Bhutto, said they started seeing unfamiliar people wearing Bhutto badges shortly before the shooting/bombing.

It didn't clarify whether the badges were security or campaign badges, though my leaning would be towards security.

Could it have been one of these unfamiliars who fired on Bhutto?

Even though the shooter, and the homocide bomber were killed in the blast, don't investigators still have the ability to find out the indentities
of both men? Oh...that's right. I just remembered the spraying down of the crime scene.

It might take some time, but eventually we will learn those identities.
Thank God for video footage. Without that, it would be tough to point fingers later.

On a happy note, I hope you all have a Happy New Year.

reply to post by JacKatMtn


Hello Jack,

yes, I also heard something along the lines of "unfamiliar" people entering the scene... For no reason except my own gut feeling I tend towards the belief that this was an entirely "outside" attack, but like I say that's very subjective; frankly at the present time we really do not have enough information to make any form of effective judgment in that regard. In my own previous post, I was just stating that the "traitor assassin" scenario is one that should be considered, or that at least shouldn't be discarded out of hand. I should have added Indira Gandhi's name in my previous comments, for she was another who was killed by "trusted" people -- in her case by her own bodyguards.

About the only thing I am pretty sure of right now is that the Pakistani authorities have attempted to muddy the waters quite considerably and in my humble opinion have made a pretty bad job of it. Well, they have muddied things up, but what I mean is that it just seems to imply they have some complicity in the whole sad situation.

Regards,

Mike

Musharraf is screwed as any gun attack points primarily back on him – for either knocking out his only election opponent, or being forced to prove that probable bullet wounds ‘didn’t’ come from his command – tough to do if true.

She hit her head while ducking/jostled by explosion is therefore his only logical reply. This was an act of GOD - directly caused by one of HIS zany adherents.

My humble guess is an “outside” agency drove home this catch-22 new years present. The World’s public gets wet with a MSM taste of “actual” conspiracy, starring a devious and nuclear third world president seemingly weak against resident Al Qaeda and other Islamic extremist– who the MSM post-assassination had no problem focusing articles on over the holiday weekend.

Last thing, the ‘initial’ official government claim stating she was shot was from an ‘anonymous’ government official if I remember right. The next morning a real official from their interior ministry (?) ‘revised’ this claim and went with death by sunroof.

My bet everyone is in on it considering the amount of money and regional power up for grabs – and the public is feeding off the titillating armchair window into a staged international foul play event hook, line and sinker.

2008 – same BS one more twist. Happy new year indeed.

reply to post by turbokid

Sharif's activities and statements following the assassination seem like overkill to me. I wonder if he is trying to steal Bhutto's supporters from her own party.

My own prediction is that Musharraf, or some other military designate will continue to hold power and that Sharif will supply the "appearance" of a civilian component to the government, supplying whatever opposition style charades are necessary to keep a lid on the population.

The US has donated 10 BILLION dollars to Pakistan since 9/11 to an egomaniac dictator who is obviously in cahoots with those extrememist factions in his country as we are to find out after attempting to keep up with those minute by minute updates on the lurid details on Bhutto's assassination.

So now our worst fears have been confirmed. The Bush administration has sought to support and finance those extremist factions in Pakistan so Al Qaeda could continue in its campaign of terror in order to divert global attention away from their quest to take over the production of oil in that region of the world.

My guess is that this is what the rest of the world is thinking too in the aftermath of this assassination. It's kinda scary isn't it?

I believe that Musharaf is behind this murder. Possibly with the help of others.

Another point to raise is that law and order must be restored. It also sends a powerful message to anyone who may be considering real democracy for Pakistan.

Looks like Pakistan is going to be needing a military man (Musharaf) after all.

Originally posted by masqua



5 x 3 cm, oval shaped sure sounds like a bullet wound to me.

its interesting to note the two completely different impact sites that the "official" stories claim.