Questions and Answers about Faith

I know a lot of people don’t believe in faith because there is no proof that can be seen when it comes to faith. Well I wanted to bring it to the non-believers attention something I just thought of.

First I will explain to you my faith and HOW I know that it is REAL. Lots of people don’t believe in God because they say there is no proof of Him. That Christians live by our faith. Well for me my faith lies in my heart where God is. How do I know there is a God besides what it tells me in the Bible? Well that is really easy for me to answer. I feel it deep down in my heart. I feel His love very strongly in the most important part of me. That part is my heart.

Now I will ask the non believers in faith and God. When you have a child or a spouse or even your parents do you feel love for them? Where does that love lie? Can you feel it deep inside your heart? What happens to your heart if you believe your loved one is going to leave you? You feel physical pain in your heart as if it is breaking.

Now my question is. Do you have physical proof of your love for your child, spouse or parent? You can be nice and show kindness to that person but is that really proof? I would actually like to see the SAME kind of proof of the love you have for that person that most of you ask Christians to show you of their faith or God. You may think that taking care of that person and putting food in their stomachs as proof but is it really? You can’t have it both ways when asking to show proof. If you want actual physical proof of Christian’s faith then maybe you should show Christians the same proof that you ask for when it comes to loving someone in your life.

Now when it comes to me and being a Christian I am not going to ask you for proof that you love someone. Why is that? Because if someone tells me they love someone then I am going to take their word for it and not question it because it isn’t my place to do that. I am only trying to make a point that there is not always proof to be shown.

When someone comes to me and tells me that they love someone then I am going to respect the way they feel. Not badger them about how they feel. When someone feels a certain way about faith in God or love for someone as examples it should be respected by everyone no matter what you believe in. If you don’t believe them just move on. What is the point in trying to convince someone differently if that is what they are feeling in their heart? Is it going to hurt YOU personally if someone has faith in God?

Excellent post...

Also something to consider is this...

"Absence of Evidence is NOT Evidence of Absence"

I feel much the same as you... But for me it is also common sense...

For me to believe that some galactic accident, beyond all measure of probability, created the Universe, Planets, Living Environment, LIFE, and all the myriad forms of LIFE.. Well.. That is just plain ridiculous....

I really don't normally get involved in Faith discussions as a rule, just jumping in on occasion when someone posts something silly, but your post was very well stated and full of the love for the Lord I can see you feel...

As such, let me wish you a Happy New Year and may the Lord bring you all the blessings you desire...

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis
Excellent post...

Also something to consider is this...

"Absence of Evidence is NOT Evidence of Absence"

I feel much the same as you... But for me it is also common sense...

For me to believe that some galactic accident, beyond all measure of probability, created the Universe, Planets, Living Environment, LIFE, and all the myriad forms of LIFE.. Well.. That is just plain ridiculous....

I really don't normally get involved in Faith discussions as a rule, just jumping in on occasion when someone posts something silly, but your post was very well stated and full of the love for the Lord I can see you feel...

As such, let me wish you a Happy New Year and may the Lord bring you all the blessings you desire...

Semper

Thank you so much Semper for your kind words. I was just sitting here this morning and it hit me so I knew the Lord was working through me.

I would also like to wish you a Happy New Year full of the Lord's blessings for you and yours.

reply to post by johannamoria


I think that people should acknowledge that your feelings are real. If you feel you are loved, that is real to you.

However, I also think that the analogy is a little faulty. You asked for proof of my love for my children -- not whether they exist.

The point of a skeptic is that more evidence of existence is needed.

However the catch 22 is this...

With evidence of existence, comes the elimination of faith...

The Lord has placed many things here and many wonders for us to see and these are the things we are to use as evidence. That and sending his only Son here to die for our sins...

Of course if he came here in a big cloud and proclaimed his own existence all would believe... AND.... Choice would be rendered useless. For all except the insane would follow the Lord revealed knowing the alternative...

In walks Self Consciousness and Individual Choice....

We were made Self Conscious (I think therefor I am) in order that we may come to Love the Lord and come to him of our own free will.. Through Faith...

That is all he asks of us.. To have faith and believe that as the Lord he has a plan that we can not possibly understand.. Except for the one small part that we are saved and will ascend into heaven to live eternal...

To support that faith, he made the universe so complex and wondrous, that only a fool, or those enamored and controlled by Satan, could not believe....

It's not their fault and I pray each and every day that they find salvation before it is too late, but I do not blame them.. Their disbelief has been prophesied and written in the scriptures for all to read, so it is no surprise, as sad as it may be...

So to sum it up....

The "proof" that many ask for is all around you.... Just have faith, read the bible and open your mind to other possibilities they may not teach in any school or university...

Semper

The words, "Live and Let Live" come to mind, reading the replies to Johanna's post. For all people it has meaning, how many of us actually follow these words?

As a minister for Yahweh and Christ, the following applies to me personally and the other ministers of our ministry. It is from our website which explains who we are, what we do and why we are doing it:

Once we have acquired Wisdom about the Truth, it is our duty to spread the message as far as we can over all of creation. If we fail to warn others, the Creator holds us accountable. To walk away is to be overshadowed with negativity. Ezekiel 3:17-18 gives insight on this. "Son of man, I have made you a watchman over the house of Israel. When you hear a word from My mouth, give them a warning from Me. If I say to the wicked person: You will surely die, but you do not warn him—you don't speak out to warn him about his wicked way in order to save his life—that wicked person will die for his iniquity. Yet I will hold you responsible for his blood.”

This message is the Kingdom Message of Salvation which includes a warning of impending judgment for those who refuse to accept the truth. This truth is that it requires a good heart and belief in Christ as Lord and Savior. We are not permitted to judge as we cannot read a person's heart but, it is our duty to at least warn them or else their blood is on our hands.

Warn, does not mean judge and it does not mean to convince or twist arms either.

"Live and let live" certainly applies for us in regards to non-believers. Out of love for our heavenly Father and duties to Christ as well as compassion for those who are walking in darkness we deliver this message. We seek to bring them the hope for eternal life. However, once we have delivered this message, and it is not accepted, we respect their right to free will and walk away and allow them to live out the remainder of their lives on this planet, continuing to pray for them but not seeking to twist their arms and convince them of something their heart is not willing or able to accept.

A full understanding of how the heart works is required in order to do this. This is something most people in general do not have. If the heart is not open, no amount of convincing will change their minds. Only the work of the Holy Spirit can be relied upon for that. Continuing to hound them, cajole them, debate them is simply tossing pearls to swine. All too often I see this happening on this forum and others and it accomplishes nothing for either side.

And it goes both ways. For some reason, while Atheists want to be left alone to believe what they want to believe, Atheists too will try to convince believers that they are right and the believers are wrong. Where is "Live and Let Live" in that? Why is it not reciprocated? Perhaps because too many professed Christians do aim to twist arms and convince. They do not have an understanding of how the heart works. While their intentions may be good, it actually backfires and causes more discord. If they truly walked in the footsteps of Christ, it may be different.

Christ knew. He did not aim to twist arms or convince either. He knew when to walk away. Sometimes it's hard to do. Especially if the person you have compassion for is a close friend or loved one. But everyone should be given the respect and entitlement to believe what they want to believe. This is how our heavenly Father wishes it to be. He does not want to force people into loving Him or believing in His Son. This is why we were given Free Will to decide for ourselves.

There is no harm in attempting to share the glory of God and His Son Christ Jesus, but as Christians we must also know how to know them as we know the seasons. To be able to tell when someone may be open to what we have to say and when to walk away and "Live and Let Live".


[edit on 30-12-2007 by ReginaAdonnaAaron]

Originally posted by Jackson2
reply to post by johannamoria

 

I think that people should acknowledge that your feelings are real. If you feel you are loved, that is real to you.

However, I also think that the analogy is a little faulty. You asked for proof of my love for my children -- not whether they exist.

The point of a skeptic is that more evidence of existence is needed.

I'm not sure you understand what my point of this post was. You said The point of a skeptic is that more evidence of existence is needed well maybe for a believer more evidence of your love for your family is needed. I am not trying to argue or convince just making sure you understood my point. Just so you know too I am not saying you don't love your family. I am sure you love them very much. I was just using that as an example. I hope you have a good night.

reply to post by johannamoria

Proof of love is quite easy as love is just a neurological condition. Certain brain chemicals are involved in all aspects of love from the initial lust for a person to the attachment to that person and children. Two major chemicals produced for attachment are Oxytocin and Vasopressin. However the feeling of love you have for a god is not proof that said god exists

"When someone feels a certain way about faith in God or love for someone as examples it should be respected by everyone no matter what you believe in."

Quite true but when when a person of faith starts to impose their beliefs on others should they still be respected?

"Is it going to hurt YOU personally if someone has faith in God? "

Not at all, just the same as it won't hurt you personally if someone doesn't have faith in a god

Originally posted by semperfortis

For me to believe that some galactic accident, beyond all measure of probability, created the Universe, Planets, Living Environment, LIFE, and all the myriad forms of LIFE.. Well.. That is just plain ridiculous....

But believing that everything was created by a supernatural being isn't ridiculous? I find that concept even more ridiculous than a 'galactic accident'


G

I find that concept even more ridiculous than a 'galactic accident'

And you have the right of course.. As I stated, it is your soul and not mine after all...

But considering the odds, the HUGE Galactic accident theory is something like standing in the lobby of a LV casino, hitting the Power Ball, Winning on Roulette, and hitting the BIG winner on every slot machine ever made, all at the same time and then finding out you are going to be the father of 100 babies all at the same time with the same woman...

I'm not a betting man, but I'll stake my chances on the Lord and Creator..

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis

I find that concept even more ridiculous than a 'galactic accident'

And you have the right of course.. As I stated, it is your soul and not mine after all...

But I don't believe in souls either

But considering the odds, the HUGE Galactic accident theory is something like standing in the lobby of a LV casino, hitting the Power Ball, Winning on Roulette, and hitting the BIG winner on every slot machine ever made, all at the same time and then finding out you are going to be the father of 100 babies all at the same time with the same woman...

I'm not a betting man, but I'll stake my chances on the Lord and Creator..

Semper

So the odds are better that a supernatural creator being decided to create everything in 6 days?

G

Quite true but when when a person of faith starts to impose their beliefs on others should they still be respected?

I personally can't answer that because I try to respect everyone no matter what they believe in. God gave us free will so you have the right not to believe in Him. Myself and the Ministry I belong to don't impose our beliefs on anyone. We put our message out there for people to read and leave the rest in God's hands. We don't debate our beliefs or try to convince anyone either.

Not at all, just the same as it won't hurt you personally if someone doesn't have faith in a god

Your right. But it does make me sad for the person who doesn't have faith in Him so I will just continue to pray for the one's who don't believe

Wow, I typed one of my most concise and to the point posts ever, and I got "Page cannot be displayed". Hopefully I can recreate to some point, but I doubt it will be as well written.

Anyway. What I was writing about was faith. I loved the OP. Well written and no doubt correct. And as one of the responders said: "Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense".

However, I must argue my point. Faith is not believing when there is no reason. For instance:

Why would I have faithin my ability to win the lottery when I do not buy lottery tickets? Or why would I have faith in my state's ability to win the superbowl when I live in South Carolina.

What I'm getting at is there is no real reason to believe in a God. I cannot say there is not a God, but I have been given no actual choices. Look, I'm just one of those people who operates off the left side of my brain.

Can anyone help me find a rational fact to believe in a God? If so, I'd much appreciate it.

Thanks.

I'd like to add that my original post was much better.^^^^

But I don't believe in souls either

Your choice, but your disbelief in no way removes their presence. Just because you don't believe, does not mean you do not have one to lose.

My Granny said we never went into space, she was wrong too...

So the odds are better that a supernatural creator being decided to create everything in 6 days?

Well the 6 days is man's translation and God is NOT, I repeat NOT SUPERnatural. Their is nothing more pure and NATURAL than the creator.

Can anyone help me find a rational fact to believe in a God?

Well, that is what faith is all about.. The belief, the trusting that which is not apparent to those with their minds shut from the glory of God.

But consider this...

Wrap your brain around this for a minute. Don't fall for the "pat" answer, try and reason it out yourself...

"How did the first creature to obtain sight, even know there was something to see?"

Here is another neat mystery..

"The clotting of blood requires a very specific combination of chemical and physical reactions. How many original creatures bled to death prior to the "evolution" of clotting blood?"
"Consider how high the odds are that ONE creature evolved with clotting blood, then consider they would have died giving birth. Bled to death. Then you have to factor in the INCREDIBLY increased odds that another "evolved" with clotting blood and so on and so on"

Those are just two very simple concepts and yet those that are turned from faith will fathom out some excuse, but just consider the two scenarios yourself for awhile.

Semper

Originally posted by semperfortis

But I don't believe in souls either

Your choice, but your disbelief in no way removes their presence. Just because you don't believe, does not mean you do not have one to lose.

The fact that there is no evidence for the souls existence means that you cannot categorically state that such a thing exists whether you believe it or not. The same goes for deities

So the odds are better that a supernatural creator being decided to create everything in 6 days?

Well the 6 days is man's translation and God is NOT, I repeat NOT SUPERnatural. Their is nothing more pure and NATURAL than the creator.

The definition of supernatural from Merriam Webster:-

1: of or relating to an order of existence beyond the visible observable universe; especially : of or relating to God or a god, demigod, spirit, or devil
2 a: departing from what is usual or normal especially so as to appear to transcend the laws of nature b: attributed to an invisible agent (as a ghost or spirit)

Please note ' especially : of or relating to God or a god' and 'transcend the laws of nature'. Isn't it a common attribute of a deity to be able to transcend the laws of nature?

If 6 days is mans translational error. 1)That would make the bible flawed and 2) Just how long did it take then?


G

Originally posted by Sublime620
Anyway. What I was writing about was faith. I loved the OP. Well written and no doubt correct. And as one of the responders said: "Absense of evidence is not evidence of absense".

Thank you for your kind words Sublime.

Faith is not believing when there is no reason. For instance:

Why would I have faithin my ability to win the lottery when I do not buy lottery tickets? Or why would I have faith in my state's ability to win the superbowl when I live in South Carolina.

I happen to believe that too and I like your examples. I have a very good reason for having faith in God. It may only be MY reason but I feel God in my heart very strongly. I feel His love for me like no other love I have every felt.

Can anyone help me find a rational fact to believe in a God? If so, I'd much appreciate it.

While I can't give you a rational FACT to believe in God I can maybe help in some way if you would like. I will wait to see your reply before I tell you what I think may help


[edit on 1-1-2008 by johannamoria]

The definition of supernatural from Merriam Webster:-

AH, the very human attempt to define or categorize something Holy, using human instruments.

Well I guess if it's all you have...

As far as a translational error, read the scriptures my friend. It very clearly states that there are many things Man is not to understand. We are dealing with God after all. I do not imagine myself capable of comprehending 1/1,0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 > to the 10th Power<
of His plan or His history. I accept that He created us and sent His Son here to die so that I might live forever.

I can categorically state that Souls do exist. You may choose to not believe, well for now anyway. You will come to believe.
All will believe and many will see the truth too late.

That is a sad fact, but again, I can not hope to see His plan...

Anyway, this thread was not about debating my belief, so I will let you all hash it out. It has been fun and if anyone wants to discuss Christianity with me, I am more than happy to at anytime. Just U2U me...

Semper

Is there a conspiracy with my posts? Because again I made nice, coherent post and I got "No page can be displayed". Maybe it's just god messing with me.

Anyway... I believe my response said something like this:

Unfortunately I have no good response to you, johannamoria. I do, however, look forward to your reply to me. I have never denied a Lord. I have only wondered.

I am a very open individual but I can't just believe anything. When I went to church as child I cried and my parents didn't take me back (not sure how much they believe, though probably more than me).

Then I joined some church camp and the preacher said Rock music was created by the Devil. Also he asked me to committ my faith the Lord (I think it was called confirmation?). It felt more like selling my soul to the Devil. He seemed like a slick salesman.

I declined.

I digress. I look forward to your response. I would love for any hint of where to search. Perhaps I am searching in the wrong places?

semperfortis-

You honestly believe people will see the truth "to late"?

God will send people to hell because they don't believe a book? What about people that don't even know about "God"? In Africa? In Asia? Everywhere.

Most of the World does not believe in your God. What makes you so arrogant to say that people will believe when it is to late.

Your statements and beliefs make me angry, and more importantly, seem ignorant.

[edit on 6-1-2008 by Sublime620]

Originally posted by Sublime620
Is there a conspiracy with my posts? Because again I made nice, coherent post and I got "No page can be displayed". Maybe it's just god messing with me.

Anyway... I believe my response said something like this:

Unfortunately I have no good response to you, johannamoria. I do, however, look forward to your reply to me. I have never denied a Lord. I have only wondered.

I can understand that because I was the same way for many years.

I am a very open individual but I can't just believe anything. When I went to church as child I cried and my parents didn't take me back (not sure how much they believe, though probably more than me).

Then I joined some church camp and the preacher said Rock music was created by the Devil. Also he asked me to committ my faith the Lord (I think it was called confirmation?). It felt more like selling my soul to the Devil. He seemed like a slick salesman.

I declined.

I digress. I look forward to your response. I would love for any hint of where to search. Perhaps I am searching in the wrong places?

First off I just want you to know that I am not going to try to convince you but only tell you part of my story.

I grew up in a family that didn't attend church but believed in God. The only time I went to church was when my great Aunt would take me and I will be honest with you it wasn't what I was hoping for. They tried teaching me things that I just couldn't believe because the Bible said differently. I went back to church when I married my second husband and I was baptized. Every time I walked into a church it just didn't feel right for me. They would preach the same things over and over and I felt that I needed more then that. My soul craved for more then half truths and elementary teachings. I don't belong to a church because I believe organized religion only teachings what THEY feel you need to know. I read and study the Bible. I go to Bible study three times a week with my ministry online. What I did was completely opened my heart to God Sublime. I prayed like I had never prayed before. Not only did I pray I cried out to God and He held out His hand for me. The unseen hand of God. I couldn't feel His with mine but I promise you I felt it in my heart. God through His love and grace took my broken soul and restored it.

I went to a room where I could be alone and I prayed with a open heart and an open mind and He answered. I will be praying for you Sublime that one day you might be able to feel His love like I have.

My church is the ministry I am a member of. The bible says where two or more join in His name and that is what we do. If you ever have any questions or want to talk please feel free to U2U me.

One more thing. I know you said that you may be searching the wrong places well maybe you are. Have you tried searching your heart? It's just a suggestion because that is what I finally did.

[edit on 6-1-2008 by johannamoria]