Kids at Church Praising Bush?

Originally posted by dgtempe
how can you justify these kids being brought to that point of ecstasy of prayer where they cry and treat the image of Bush as an idol, a GOD????

How can you justify saying that, when what you are saying isn't true??

The kids are not being 'brought to the point of ecstasy'. Take a look. People in religious ecstasy are given that gift from God and they are quiet and 'in another world' so to say. Oblivious to what is going on around them because they are so enraptured by Gods presence. These children are not even close to that.

They are also NOT treating the image of Bush as 'an idol, a God'. It is the evangelical way of doing things to lay hands on people to pray FOR THEM. That is what they are doing with the cardboard cut out. The cut out is also being treated as a cut out. It's just a STAND IN for the president. Everyone is very much aware of that.

And in reference to your suggestion that they are treating the image of Bush as 'GOD' .... the children are praying FOR BUSH .. not TO HIM. THere is a huge difference. FOR FOR FOR him. That is what we are all supposed to be doing.

Praying FOR OUR PRESIDENT TO MAKE BETTER CHOICES is not done in this manner.

Yes it is. If you are evangelical it is. I'm not .. so I don't pray for people in this manner. But evangelicals do all the time. It's their way. We have no right to tell people that they can't pray by using a cardboard standin for someone and laying hands on that standin. It's their right to freedom of religion. And they are all well aware that the cardboard standin is just a standin.

Have you noticed? The prayers to Bush are not working either.

Yep. I've noticed. Either that or it would be even worse without everyone praying for him. wow: That would be really bad .. if it were even worse.

The purpose of this church is to make him an "idol" and brainwash these followers, and that is very evil.

The purpose of this church is to PRAY FOR HIM. Look at the tape. They are praying for him. People who are to be idolized are in no need of prayer. Obviously they think he needs prayers so ... obviously he isn't a God or idolized. They understand he needs prayer. Plain and simple.

What kind of people are these?

Evangelical christians.

I mean, they cant have a mind of their own.

That's a different subject. And it's tempting for me to trash them since I had to deal with them in Alabama ... so I'll refrain from comment in this area.

Just pathetic.

You are entitled to think that people praying FOR our president are 'pathetic'. Frankly - I think it's needed. You are entitled to think that people teaching children to pray is 'pathetic'. Frankly - I think it's needed.

The Jesus Camp as a whole - you are entitled to think it's pathetic. Frankly - I'm not happy with it, but for other reasons then what you have said becasue it is obvious that the children are NOT idolizing Bush .. they are praying FOR him. That's different.

BOTTOM LINE - the OP, and those who blindly agreed with him, are dead wrong.

The Children are NOT praising Bush.
The Children are NOT idolizing him.
The Children are NOT crying at his feet and kissing them.
The Children are NOT saying Bush is God.

Period.

The children are being taught to pray FOR him - evangelical style.
That means they are being taught that he is in need of prayer.
That means they are being taught that he isn't GOD.

I repeat - (because obviously ya'll aren't listening) - There is enough to complain about with 'jesus camp' without making up lies. :shk:

ah, i see now. I didn't get it before, but calling me blind and using CAPS to PROVE a POINT really snapped me into place. I don't know what I was thinking. I'm off to praise... errr pray for some politicians now.

Originally posted by scientist
I didn't get it before,

glad you can admit to that.

I'm off to praise... errr pray for some politicians now.

Glad you finally realize that there is a difference.

back atchya.

and I'll add :shk:

Originally posted by FlyersFan
BOTTOM LINE - the OP, and those who blindly agreed with him, are dead wrong.

The Children are NOT praising Bush.
The Children are NOT idolizing him.
The Children are NOT crying at his feet and kissing them.
The Children are NOT saying Bush is God.

Period.

The children are being taught to pray FOR him - evangelical style.
That means they are being taught that he is in need of prayer.
That means they are being taught that he isn't GOD.

Perfectly said FF. From a Christian standpoint there isn't much more to be said imo. To those that don't understand maybe this will help. The Bible actually commands us to pray...and not always just for ourselves.

The Bible tells us to pray constantly and to pray for everyone.

Instructions on Worship

1 Timothy 2:1,2

I urge, then, first of all, that requests, prayers, intercession and thanksgiving be made for everyone—

Philippians 4:6

Do not be anxious about anything, but in everything, by prayer and petition, with thanksgiving, present your requests to God.

The Bible tells us to pray constantly.

1 Thessalonians 5:17

pray continually

Ephesians 6:18

And pray in the Spirit on all occasions with all kinds of prayers and requests.

When a Christian prays for someone we aren't praying TO that someone we are praying FOR that someone. We pray to God in hopes that he, and he alone, will guide, strengthen, help, heal...etc. Additionally if I pray for myself (healing, strength, guidance...etc) I'm not praying TO myself, I'm praying to God in hopes that he will hear and grant my request.

I don't agree with much of that camp video so I'm not condoning it but most certainly praying to God for someone else doesn't equate to praying to a human or some false God or idol.

I should also add that if a person is praying to a false god or idol they are not a Christian. Simple as that.


Blessings!

Again, while I think this "Jesus Camp" is despicable and am glad it was shut down, by the way, they were NOT praying to BUSH... They were praying FOR him. I don't expect anyone who doesn't believe in any thing other than themself and the materialistic world to understand this concept, but praying TO and praying FOR are complete opposite things.

I've never been one to come here and discuss religion. But i did see the video, on tv and here and i will tell you i will never understand the logic behind these so called prayers. I am catholic and i pray to God, for others, for peace, for mankind, and I dont have to be in a "state" of euphoria or something similar to get thru to my God.
I also cannot understand why these people cheer the war on, cheer president Bush, and think the sooner we all die the better, weather its by God's hand or Bush's hand.
God wants us to live, multiply and prosper. God does not want us to die before our time. I cant imagine praying for the end times and the end, or backing a warmonger until that nuke is sent to kill millions of innocents.

I asked someone at work who is highly intelligent why a lot of people back Bush, his reply was, "They're born again christians"....mmmm... ok, now, because they're "born again", they want war? they want to extinguish others lives? I just dont get it.

Maybe with some proper hand holding, i might, but as of now, I JUST DONT GET IT.

dgtempe,
I am a "born again" believer- I sadly admit I voted for Bush..If you are Pro life he did appoint a couple Supreme Court Justices that may lean in that direction....Other than that in my opinion his administration has done little. They would claim to fight the war on terror. However, no Bin Laden, Iraq was based on false claims of WMDs...Dollar plummets..I believe he falsely was elected in large part due to misleading Christian voters.. Meanwhile even with Republican majority the administration did nothing positive for the country. During this time has anyone seen any leadership at all? Never seen him at any type of church service other than a memorial..I could go on.I don't like any of the current mainstream candidates either..May not matter we may be under martial law by that time..

Dear Blac,,

You're absolutely right, there is no one who can get us out of this mess, i dont care who they are. Under the guise of goodness and morality and in the name of religion, Bush has turned this world into a circus, not for the weak in the stomach.
This just leaves a very bad impression to me of certain religions, i'm not even sure about Catholicism. They all seem to be cults anymore.
Whoever we get next will carry the torch and move on with the same agenda, no matter if they're Democrat, Independent, Republicans or ET's.
The world as we "knew" it has ENDED.

I would still want some of my previous questions answered if someone is an evangelist and cares to explain it to me.

Yes, this was from the documentary "Jesus Camp". I have the DVD.

Mike Papantonio (Air America) makes some great observations about what he sees going on, and I find myself in agreement. I was stunned, to say the least, to see kids virtually worshipping and praying to GB, although they weren't directly doing so, but they were given that prop to use for their own prayers of blessing the ____________.

Becky, the camp director-lady, struck me as one who really needs a lot of psychiatric medication, a long stay in a rubber room, and a strait jacket.

She talks about how Muslims take their kids from age 5 and train them how to use weapons and condition them to be ready to die for their beliefs. Then in the next sentence, she basically wants the same for "christian" kids, although she didn't directly advocate the use of guns, etc. So, what's the difference, except the names of the cults involved ? This is nothing but "holy war training" at its sorriest. And these kids are the innocent victims.

I could go on and on demonstrating the numerous hypocrisies in the things she said, but for those who haven't seen the film, SEE IT !!!

I grew up in the Jack Hyles cult of the 1970's, which was composed of IFB churches who followed that sick "preacher" from Hammond IN. I have audio of him talking about drinking poison, and his sermons usually are about himself, instead of "god". I know full well what cult conditioning is, and I condemn about 99.9% of all of them as being false, and only interested in money, power, politics, and control. It's no different now, than it was in the days of the "Holy" Roman Empire, except that we now call it by another name.

If, and when, these people ever wake up and realize that their religion (on both sides of this issue) is nothing but repackaged sun worship, based on the Cult of Sol Invictus, thanks largely to Constantine, they'll be so shocked they won't know what to do. Oh well.

DG

Originally posted by dgtempe
Dear Blac,,

You're absolutely right, there is no one who can get us out of this mess, i dont care who they are. Under the guise of goodness and morality and in the name of religion, Bush has turned this world into a circus, not for the weak in the stomach.
This just leaves a very bad impression to me of certain religions, i'm not even sure about Catholicism. They all seem to be cults anymore.
Whoever we get next will carry the torch and move on with the same agenda, no matter if they're Democrat, Independent, Republicans or ET's.
The world as we "knew" it has ENDED.

I would still want some of my previous questions answered if someone is an evangelist and cares to explain it to me.

Hey...they're ALL cults. The word "religion" as I learned it, comes to us from a French word "religare", which means, in so many words, bondage. If you'll kindly cross-check Galatians 5:1, the verse basically says for (apparently the Galatians) not to get into a yoke of (religious) bondage again.

Pardon me folks, but why must I be in bondage to some religion or cult, if this "Jesus" character allegedly came to save me from the very same thing ? Makes no sense...unless the religion, or bondage, is total baloney.

One church I visited at the behest of my relatives, had a sign posted for a workshop or seminar called "Equally Yoked".

I'm not an evangelist, just a skeptic with plenty of experience in the religious schools of hard knocks. I was at a friend's church wedding a couple years ago, and when I wouldn't answer the preacher's questions about where I go to church, or if I've been saved, I was basically shunned. So much for love or compassion, eh ?

I've become a bit atheistic, a bit skeptical, a bit freethinking, and possibly some other fourth thing. There's no label I can accurately identify with.

I've said time and again, that ALL religion is about (these days) is control, subversion, and conquest. It's not about faith, hope, and charity (to use a phrase). One could very easily call it theo-fascism, or theo-naziism. These people are bullies in every sense of the word, and stuck-up too.

Something else one can do, is review Mike Malloy's 14 Points Of Fascism on his website www.mikemalloy.com and see just how perfectly all 14 of those points are here right now.

Quite possibly the only political party that can really make any difference is the Libertarian Party. If we all vote, and as long as we're not voting on electronic machines, we CAN make a difference. In fact, we MUST.

DG

Would these same evangelicals prostrate themselves before an image ( cutout ) of the Devil himself? What about Hitler? Want a real live human being? What about Charles Manson? He needs prayer at least as much as the scummy traitor Bush does. Why not cut out all the great villains who are in need of prayer and stand them around the churches..heck, take 'em home!! Stand old Dick Cheney in the corner and pray for him after dinner; he needs it badly: His black heart is being held together by baling wire and greed but old Dick could sure use some words to the Man to get him a pass for a few hundred of his worst crimes, including murder and treason.

This is really sick: The mere thought of young people bowing down, actually at the feet of the hideous criminals that pose themselves as decent human beings while mocking every standard that makes up any established religion. Pray for Bush and his cabal? The young people ought to be getting taught the TRUTH, about how to recognize a fascist dictatorship when it rareas it's ugly head, the history of the Bush family from Prescott and the Nazi's to the present ought to be worth a semesters time, don't you think? All the prayers in the world are going to do no good if the recipient has a hardened heart and does not believe in the concept of Godly justice at some point in ther future.

What sick indoctrination. Only the Hagee types could muster thgis much gaul...to actually hold George Bush up as some kind of benificent leader who has the best intentions for us..a man who ignores making personal fortunes so he can help us all..a man who did ALL he possible could to stop those horrible TERRORISTS, who suprised us all!! A man who loves all chiuldren and who would never harm anyone without good reason!! Right? Isn't that true? Huh? It staggers the sound mind to realize that there are really people out there who actually do these things...my kids would look at me like I was insane if I told them to go kneel at a picture of the fascist liar Bush..all kids should be shocked at the very thought of bowing and scraping at the feet of an image of a horrible sinner who needs a trial and a rope as much as he does prayers. Pray for the scum after he asks for repentence for his crimes....and just before the trap door opens.

Promoting the image of Bush as someone worthy of time and attention is a tragedy when the deserving all over the world desperately need the prayers of many to simply survive another day or get enough food to live on. Wasting time and effort on the foresaken sinners is a waste of time and God will not honor the mumblings of the deluded at the feet of an idolic picture any more than he would from the rantings of a demoniac.

Originally posted by dgtempe
i will tell you i will never understand the logic behind these so called prayers. ... "They're born again christians

dg

I am not evangelical. I disagree with many things 'born agains' do. I could tell you stories about what I experienced via Baptists, Church of Christs, and Pentacostals that would turn your hair white.

The problem is that the OP of this thread, and others, basically claimed that the children were worshipping Bush. It's simply not true. They are praying FOR him .. which is something we all need to do.

If Hillary were president they would have had a cardboard cut out of her and the children would have been praying FOR her in the same manner.

I don't pray like those evangelicals do. I don't like the Jesus Camp at all. But I won't jump all over the people at the camp and claiim that they are doing something that they aren't doing. That's all.

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Would these same evangelicals prostrate themselves before an image ( cutout ) of the Devil himself?

They weren't 'prostrate' before Bush's image. They were praying for him. Period.

Stand old Dick Cheney in the corner and pray for him after dinner; he needs it badly:

I realize you are trying to be funny, but you spoke the truth. Dick Cheney is also a leader of this country and in need of prayer. I'm sure evangelicals around the country pray for him as well.

This is really sick: The mere thought of young people bowing down,

They aren't 'bowing down'. Did you read the thread? Did you see the video? They are praying FOR .. not to.

Pray for Bush and his cabal?

yes. In fact, if you remember your scripture, Christ said he came for the sinners. He called us to pray for each other. The bigger the sinner, the more prayer they need.

All the prayers in the world are going to do no good if the recipient has a hardened heart

Only God knows who has a hardened heart and therefore NO prayer is a waste.

Promoting the image of Bush as someone worthy of time and attention is a tragedy

No ... praying for Bush is what Christians are supposed to do. And they weren't 'promoting the image of Bush'. They were using a standin for 'hands on' prayer. That's the style of prayer many evangelicals use.

Wasting time and effort on the foresaken sinners is a waste of time

:shk: No. It's EXACTLY what christians are supposed to do .. pray for everyone .. especially those most in need of God's grace and help.

and God will not honor the mumblings of the deluded at the feet of an idolic picture any more than he would from the rantings of a demoniac.

So you are now claiming to know the Mind of God?

Look.. this isn't my style of prayer either. However, it IS the evangelical way of prayer. They'd pray FOR Hillary just as much (if not more) than they'd pray for George Bush.

Don't let your hate for the man get in the way of seeing what is going on in the video. Folks are getting all rabid because there is a picture of George Bush. Seriously folks .. ya'll should be happy that people are praying for him. He (obviously) needs prayer.

[edit on 12/30/2007 by FlyersFan]

Ok, sure, it is easy to get riled about the fact that Bush can fool so many people so much of the time due to media manipulation and a populace that knows all the trampy ' stars ' in vouge at the moment but cannot tell you who is running the world and what crimes they are committing.

most of those church groups are NOT praying for Bush to become a better person and confess his crimes and sins and repent...no, he is held to a different standard, isn't he? He gets people praying that the mean old Democrats will be defeated by the hand of the Lord so Bush's programs can go foreward unimpeded.
Of course these same drones have no idea what any of the programs are, or what the future holds for them under a Bushian Neocon world government, but hey..the game is on and the beer is cold so forget all that political stuff and throw a few shrimp on the barbie or a steak on the grill and trust that all those things the 9-11 people are saying aren't true and that gas prices will go down when the 'rag heads' are finally defeated by the glory of God and Bush's inside info from the almighty..recall that?

Recall that Bush actually hints that God tells him to attack and kill the innocents around the world so that we can all be safe from ' terror '? Recall the Downing Street memo? you know, the one that proved that the war was fixed around the intelligence, and that it was all lies? that Bush the scum was determined to invade Iraq and Iran, etc. way before he took office: It was the PNAC plan, and it is being implemented right now, thank you very much.

Those ' prarey warriors ' are NOT praying that George appear before the Senate and the people on live TV and admit that he was part and parcel of the 9-11 events and the ruination of the Constitution and our liberties for the profit of him and his cronies. No, indeed they allow him to flaunt his guilt and ignore accountability, preening in front of the cameras and spewing his vile lies about his intentions and his abuse of the laws and the system itself. He is never challenged and called what he is: A dangerous and amoral repressed homosexual who wishes above all he could take a bottle Jack D. and a half oz of blow and a few ' close friends ' and disappear for a few days to relive his youth.

Yet his image stands in churches and the faithful pray at his feet. They pray that the people trying to restore sanity are thwarted by the Bush minions..they pray that Bush's programs for destruction will be advanced against the wishes of the majority of the people..they pray that God protect the worst mass murderers since the great wars and actually believe their twwisted lies about their guilyt on 9-11.

We do NOT need people praying counter to the will of God or the people, and that is what is going on here. God does not eendorse Bush and his cabal's crimes..the people hate the way he has subverted justice..it is always the uninformed, the ignorant, the people who watch Fox News all the time,, the folks who let others tell them what the truth is and accept any fable as long as it satisfies their peer group..these are the people who pray for Bush..I do NOT.

I do not pray that anything BADE happen to him, that would be wrong. I do however pray that he get what he deserves IN THIS LIFE and be exposed for what he really is, so the righteous can spend their time in pursuit of prayer that actually might avail something.

Oh, the guy needs prayer allright...as much as he can get. My hatred for this worthless shell of a human did not get in the way of my rage towards churches' getting these innocent kids involved in politics by putting up all these cutouts of GB and making them pray for him. I'm upset that they'd bring this up at all.

I was present in a kids' church class back in early 2000, and the "preacher" was telling the kids, and I quote, "pray that 'god' puts a 'godly' man in the White House". One little boy looked up at me and said, "Yeah, like George BUSH !" with enthusiasm in his voice. I was pulling for Harry Browne then.

These kids were still under 10 years old at the time. WHAT THE H#!! DO THESE KIDS NEED TO BE CONCERNING THEMSELVES WITH POLITICS AT THAT AGE FOR ? My blood boileth.

Becky herself said it best: "...they're so USABLE in christianity". That's what's happening. These kids are being USED, big time. Their innocence is gone.

I liked what the other poster said, and I agree, that we should get life-sized cutouts of all the villians, and make the kids pray for all of them. But then, why do the kids NEED to be praying for these people in the first place ? Can't these kids pray (if they must at all) of their own free will ? Oh, wait, free will is a sin too.



[edit on 30-12-2007 by Dale Gribble]

[edit on 30-12-2007 by Dale Gribble]

Originally posted by eyewitness86
Ok, sure, it is easy to get riled about the fact that Bush can fool so many people so much of the time due to media manipulation and a populace that knows all the trampy ' stars ' in vouge at the moment but cannot tell you who is running the world and what crimes they are committing.

most of those church groups are NOT praying for Bush to become a better person and confess his crimes and sins and repent...no, he is held to a different standard, isn't he? He gets people praying that the mean old Democrats will be defeated by the hand of the Lord so Bush's programs can go foreward unimpeded.

Of course these same drones have no idea what any of the programs are, or what the future holds for them under a Bushian Neocon world government, but hey..the game is on and the beer is cold so forget all that political stuff and throw a few shrimp on the barbie or a steak on the grill and trust that all those things the 9-11 people are saying aren't true and that gas prices will go down when the 'rag heads' are finally defeated by the glory of God and Bush's inside info from the almighty..recall that?

Recall that Bush actually hints that God tells him to attack and kill the innocents around the world so that we can all be safe from ' terror '? Recall the Downing Street memo? you know, the one that proved that the war was fixed around the intelligence, and that it was all lies? that Bush the scum was determined to invade Iraq and Iran, etc. way before he took office: It was the PNAC plan, and it is being implemented right now, thank you very much.

Those ' prarey warriors ' are NOT praying that George appear before the Senate and the people on live TV and admit that he was part and parcel of the 9-11 events and the ruination of the Constitution and our liberties for the profit of him and his cronies. No, indeed they allow him to flaunt his guilt and ignore accountability, preening in front of the cameras and spewing his vile lies about his intentions and his abuse of the laws and the system itself. He is never challenged and called what he is: A dangerous and amoral repressed homosexual who wishes above all he could take a bottle Jack D. and a half oz of blow and a few ' close friends ' and disappear for a few days to relive his youth.

Yet his image stands in churches and the faithful pray at his feet. They pray that the people trying to restore sanity are thwarted by the Bush minions..they pray that Bush's programs for destruction will be advanced against the wishes of the majority of the people..they pray that God protect the worst mass murderers since the great wars and actually believe their twwisted lies about their guilyt on 9-11.

We do NOT need people praying counter to the will of God or the people, and that is what is going on here. God does not eendorse Bush and his cabal's crimes..the people hate the way he has subverted justice..it is always the uninformed, the ignorant, the people who watch Fox News all the time,, the folks who let others tell them what the truth is and accept any fable as long as it satisfies their peer group..these are the people who pray for Bush..I do NOT.

I do not pray that anything BADE happen to him, that would be wrong. I do however pray that he get what he deserves IN THIS LIFE and be exposed for what he really is, so the righteous can spend their time in pursuit of prayer that actually might avail something.

Sounds like you're one who's read "Bush On The Couch", eh ? GB is a fascist or nazi, and his purchase of land in South America makes me think he's gonna do exactly the same thing Nazi's did after WWII, run away where there's no extradition. What a coward .

Don't worry, though, he and his cronies WILL get what they deserve, even after they've taken all our money, all our rights and freedoms, and our entire country. Let's also not forget that GB is a Bonesman which is a conflict with being a christian...isn't it ?

I caught part of "Jesus Camp" on one of the channels last night. Whereas I tend to resonate with much of what they said or believe at least with respect to the abortion issue which seemed to be the main focus. However, to put these children on the front line of that issue bothers me. I wonder when these kids can just be kids..