The USA was founded by Secret Societies and Not Christianity.

Let's say that the NWO is a cult and not enlightenment for a minute. What exactly, do you wish to accomplish by exposing it? No one is going to do anything. Why fight over it?

Your inner world can never be controlled unless you let it. Escape there and live in peace.

I do not understand all of the fighting and bickering. I think we all need to stop trying to convert each other to our own way of thinking and inform each other of how we live so that everyone can come to a better understand of each other and be friends. I am an occultist, I have friends who are Jews, Masons, Mormons, Christians, Buddhists, Hindus, Atheists, and Agnostics. I do not see myself as being better than any of them, smarter than any of them, nor having anything anyone else does not. We all breath the same air, eat the same food, live in the same world, seek the same peace, work with the same people, and so on. What is so bad about the Masons or about Christianity?

I practice yoga, magic, Qabalah, work in the legal field, am heavily involved in politics and I absolutely do not try and take away freedoms, control anyone, nor commit crimes in secret. Does that make me evil? I go out of my way in my free time to donate to charity and give hypnosis and NLP cessions to the depressed and addicts, as well as extensive spiritual counseling at my lodge, all for free. I am sure everyone here tries to do what is right and help his fellow man how he sees fit. Cannot everyone do that in his own way? Fighting is not going to improve anything. Yeah, some insane laws have been passed, our family members (including my own) are stuck in the middle east fighting, but they chose to do that. They cannot control you unless you submit to them. There has always been people trying to gain power over the whole earth, bush is just another Alexander. No one will ever succeed. It has not occurred in all of history and will not occur today. Spending all of this time attacking this stuff is wasting time you could be spending to get closer to god, help people, work hard, have fun and go places.

Isn't that what everyone is after? Without cooperation from all things are going to remain the same. Trying to change society has to happen with the first person you come across. Yourself. The Mason is trying to become a better man and the Christian is also trying to be Christlike, at least supposed to do these things. How do you think it reflects on ALL of the rest of your groups when you attack other people? Everyone is going to think your group is a bunch of louts because they may not have access to anyone else's behaviors. We all have to set examples to get people to see we are not the secret enemy ruining everyone else's lives. Our own lives are in our own hands, what happens to us is in our own control. It is when we get caught up trying to be other than we are we all lose sight of this. There is no need for company in any spiritual path. If others are there, great. If no one else is there, also great. When you find the answers and have become happy share it with others. If you are miserable keep it to yourself. That's the only way everyone is going to get along.

What has happened to the Christian "Turn the other cheek?" I see all these Christians "taking up arms" and attacking people who attack them. What about as a Mason, remembering those who are without a penny? No happy, sated person is going to fight. They have no reason to. When your world gets bad change it, don't try and sit around waiting for something to happen. Nothing ever will change unless you make it happen.

Why waste each other's time fighting when we can all share what we can to better this place and each other's understanding?

reply to post by LightinDarkness

It is unsurprising that the designers of great American cities looked toward the greatest and most magnificent of ancient civilizations (Egypt, Greece, Rome, etc.) as their muse. They wanted the United States to stand out like these great civilizations, and what better way to do it then erected obelisks and shining marble monuments. No conspiracy here, just people who wanted to make America to be the next "great civilization" - which you will find motivates many of the founders of every country on this earth.

Its funny you mention this because this is exactly what is wanted, America's destiny was seen to be the next Atlantis. America was founded by men who were into occult/mysticism and such. Take "The Order of the Helmet" for example, a group that worshiped the Goddess as Pallas Athene, the Greek Goddess of Truth and Wisdom. It is this Goddess whose nineteen and a half foot tall bronze and platinum form now stands atop the Capitol building, gazing eastward, as the "Statue of Freedom" in Washington D.C. . The symbols of ancient gods and paganism is all around us.

reply to post by LDragonFire


You can post as you wish, but you have been exposed as just yet another person who wants to connect the dots in ways that are quite literally not true. You ignore every post that challenges you - are you sure YOUR not a NWO disinformation agent?

reply to post by PontiacWarrior


I do not believe in any way that the architects and designers of DC had in mind making it the next "Atlantis" - although I recognize there might have been one or two. But this urge to make the next "shining city on the hill" that brings images of Rome and Athens to the mind is something which drives the designers of most capital cities. Projecting great monuments of marble and ivory creates a national identity of power and excessive splendor.

Its a global game of everyone trying to outdo the other nations.

reply to post by LightinDarkness


I did not think I was foaming at the mouth at all. If you read the letters and papers and speeches of the founding fathers they were truly not "Christians" in the modern sense of the word. Though many of them did point out that it would be religion that kept the masses in check, which has proven to be true. Many of the folks who made effort in the creation of our country identified themselves as Freemason more so then as Christians. Freemasons are Deists. Many were Deists seperate of their religion or the fact that they were Freemasons. Just the way it is, read the oathes they have to take and the letters and papers they wrote.
As far as my "hate religion" religion, I do not hate religion. To each their own. I have a problem with fanatical nutcases who try to use propaganda and violence to spread their values. Have you ever been to a Christian church? Their whole religion is based on the premise that some lunatic God is going to kill off everyone who does not happen to agree with their particular belief system. What makes it worse is when people with this agenda in my mind gain political power and use it to start wars or to fund a rogue state and supply them with weapons and tech with the intent of bringing about "the End Times". So sorry if you misunderstood. Religion is great if it is peaceful and beneficial, imagine modern Christianity acting and behaving as if they believed in what Jesus taught and you would have an excellent example of what a peaceful and loving religion would be. I also think it would provide great benefit for society.

I digress.

I agree with LightinDarkness about DC almost completely.
They were trying to rival the great civilisations that came before and were paying clear homage to the Romans and Greeks who they saw as their Philosophical antecedents. The Masonry symbolism is there because, again, there were just a crap ton o' Masons involved!! I think the Capital area is very nicely done asides from traffic and parking

I do not think it was a secret conspiracy of Freemasons that made our country what it is. That blame lies directly at the feet of the Hamiltonians and the Statists.

reply to post by Tinhatman


The founding fathers were a mixture - some indeed were Christian in the modern sense, some were deist, some were Christian in a different sense. Also, being Freemasons doesn't matter since it's not a religion. Freemasonry requires you to be AT LEAST deist, but does not prohibit or discourage people from being religious. Deism is a necessary but not sufficient requirement to be religious.

Religion does not kill people, people do. Religion does not advocate for murder, people do. That people use the shield of religion to carry out their personal agenda does not mean religion is the cause of all the worlds evils.

reply to post by LightinDarkness


Your Fast!! I just hit post and bam!!

You are right, Religion is used as a shield and as a scapegoat. Thats actually the point I was making. I think many people use Christianity to propel a terrible agenda, part of that is to push the idea that the US was founded as a Christian country. The fact the Judeo-Christian (ug) values happen to be SIMILAR to the ideas of Lockesist philosophy and the Ideas of Natural Laws and Freedom are coincidental. The bible in it's original sense is very restrictive and holds a lot of room for the subjugation of the individual by the state. I happen to think that was one of the main reasons for many of the entries in the Bible to exist.

But yes, men do violence. Men who usurp the reigns of Power to use religion to influence men to do violence are evil, and those are the men who "own" American mainstream Christianity now.

I almost entirely forgot!

Check out Sandusky, Ohio!

Wow.

Just doesn't have the same "pop" as Washington DC, does it? Not to mention that it actually was designed that way.

You'd think if they meant DC to have a symbolic layout they'd have at least tried to get the symbols correct.

Just thought it was interesting and somewhat relevant to the thread, so there.

[edit on 12/31/07 by The Axeman]

reply to post by Tinhatman


I studied philosophy in college as a major and was taught by some of the most Liberal (as in democratic) professors at the University. Even they admitted that the philosophical tradition of Lockean philosophy and the social contract descend from Christian theology. It's fine that it does - it does not make the philosophy itself religious or Christian. But the philosophies which founded America are indeed the product of Christian theologians.

No one owns Christianity, except in Catholicism where there is obviously one leader. On the Protestant side, there are too many denominations and too many of them lack any church hierarchy whatsoever to be called "owned" by someone. I have no problem with the way Christianity is today. There is indeed an agenda - but where men breathe, there will always be an agenda. People say the bible is restrictive as if this is unusual. Laws are restrictive. Society is restrictive. No one except anarchists advocate for you to do absolutely whatever you want. Who cares if the Bible has restrictions? What system of theology or government does not which is currently in existence? I have yet to find one, even in the most off-the-wall religions. You will find them everywhere, even in satanism and the occult.

[edit on 31-12-2007 by LightinDarkness]

reply to post by The Axeman


You know what this means, don't you? That city indicates Ohio will be the capitol of the NWO masonic cabal.

Ohio - who woulda thunk it?

reply to post by LDragonFire


I wonder how many bases the USA had during the Cold War vs. now? Back when there were over 300k in the Army alone, in Europe. Numbers of bases show nothing, other than who we are working along side with for joint security purposes and training. The more important bit of info, would be what types of bases are they? Are we talking a few folks working somewhere, or every base has heavy infantry/armor units ready to warmonger and spread agression(as your tone implies). The fact is that in many cases it is more diplomatically symbolic, than actually tactically important. In other instances, it's just a logistical facility. Of those numbers you cited, only a small percentage are combat arms type bases(with combat forces, training ranges, manuever areas, etc...).

Originally posted by LDragonFire
I have read where these secret societies have ruled or attempted to rule for up to 6000 years. They have attempted to combine Paganism with Christianity to form a one world religion to go with a one world rule, and they still are trying to do this today, I believe the Trinity is apart of this conspiracy and just one example of their efforts.

Um...I'm sorry if no one else has picked up on this, but... the TRINITY?? Are you referring to the Trinity as in the one espoused by the Council of Nicea in 325 A.D. that requires all Catholics to profess their belief in the triune divinity of God-Jesus-the Holy Spirit??

And, if you want to talk about the melding of Christianity and pagan elements... um... what do bunnies have to do with Christ's Crucificion and Ressurection? Why do we call Easter "Easter"? Hint: look up Eostre sometime. Most Catholic scholars now admit that many of the early saints were thinly disguised "pagan" dieties transformed into saints by the "new" religion. Finally, the date chosen for the Christ's Mass (aka Christmas) wasn't put on December 25th by accident. Most scholars now agree that he was probably born in late spring-early summer and the positioning of this celebration was to "compete" with the Roman celebration of Saturnalia that occured around the winter solstice.

I had one professor agree with me that many of the points in the early church bore a striking example of "if you can't beat them, buy them" rather than being associated with any concrete point of faith.

But, even IF all that is true, what DIFFERENCE would it make in the long run? If you have a point to make, perhaps you could be a little less cryptic and a lot more specific as to what you're trying to say and why.

Leigh Smith
(who is not a Mason; she is MARRIED to a Mason but she and her friends all refer to the Masons as the "He Men Women Hater's Club")

Originally posted by LDragonFire
I'm not trying to prove the USA was founded to be a theocratic government,[this is what the Christians say and want] It was formed to further the goals of the NWO, the Free Masons, the Rosicrucian's, the Illuminati, And All the other secret societies that have controlled or manipulated mankind for centuries.

And, once again, you are painting with an EXTREMELY broad brush. You posit facts not yet in evidence (i.e., the existance and power of these "secret societies"). And then you link the creation of a nation to these alleged societies as if this invalidates all that has been done (and, hopefully, will be done) in this and any other western nation. And your point is...?

Leigh Smith
Wandering Skeptic

Originally posted by LDragonFire
Again the title of this thread is? It's my theory that All secret societies are connected, including Freemasons, the Rosicrucian, the Illuminati, Skull and Bones, and a few others.

ALL you have shown is that many of the pre-eminent members of the 13 colonies were Masons. You have NOT shown a single shred of evidence to back up your claim that "All (sic) secret societies are connected..." much less that there even ARE various "secret societies" such as the Illuminati.

This is like saying: "All cats are mammals, some cats are brown, therefore all mammals are brown." One fact in evidence does not PROVE others NOT in evidence.

Leigh Smith

Originally posted by LDragonFire
Founding fathers and Freemasonry:

74 men were commissioned as Generals in the U.S. Continental Army from 1775 through 1783 33 (46%) were Freemasons
Generals

Including General George Washington:

Washington was initiated, in 1752, in the Lodge at Fredericksburg, Virginia, and the records of that Lodge, still in existence, present the following entries on the subject.

That would be Fredericksburg Lodge #4. In fact they have a list of famous members of the lodge on their website.

And there is so much more, and I will add this if you don’t believe Washington’s association with Freemasons:

The Library of Congress contains the George Washington Papers, which may be viewed online. A search inquiry yielded archives which contain actual photographs of original documents either written to or by Washington. The reader may view these documents in their original form. We have also transcribed certain of these letters which demonstrate, not only Washington's close ties to Freemasonry, but his position as Grand Master of the Alexandria Lodge No. 22 of Virginia.

That's my home lodge. Although it is now called Alexandria Washington Lodge #22. The name was changed in 1805. Their website is here. George washington was actually the first Worshipful Master of the lodge. As for Grand Master, I don't believe he was ever Grand Master of Virginia -- but I could be wrong on that.

So we have George Washington and 46% of the Continental Army was freemasons. Hmmm isn’t That interesting!

Yes it is interesting. It is also something to which Freemasons have freely admitted. However it doesn't prove that the US was part of some conspiracy to bring about a single world government let alone a single world religion.

Originally posted by Angus65
As for Grand Master, I don't believe he was ever Grand Master of Virginia -- but I could be wrong on that.

You are correct, Brother Washington was never Grand Master in any jurisdiction. He did, however, turn down the proposed position of General Grand Master of the United States. While the idea of a 'National Grand Lodge' was never very seriously considered one of the contributing factors may have been Washington's refusal of this post.

While many know him as a 'Modern Day Cincinatus' for his refusal to accept the Kingship of the United States when it was offered to him, this is a further example of his humility and far-sightedness. We may owe him an additional debt of gratitude in enabling Masonry to remain free from control of a National Grand Lodge and be self governing in each jurisidiction.

[edit on 1-1-2008 by AugustusMasonicus]

We should be quite clear, to the original poster in that the country was founded on freedom and equality. The country however was broke and the influence in design is likely related to those that believed enough in the ideals they would risk thier funding.


Keep also in mind the war for independence was broke. Ben Franklin did use his connections to Humanidad in France to secure funding for the war. This is true. The french Rosicrucian connections Ben had gave him a starting point. All this means is he didn't have to hire a town crier to get his message in front of people who would listen. Nothing more.

Be very clear.....The French gave the funding for one reason. It was to see a rival fail in the early quest for world domination. It was not to 'help a brother out' it was to give England a political black eye. This is the only reason the funding was obtained. Its called political maneuvering. Neither Freemasons or Rosicrucians had the support monies available at that time.


If we did not recieve the funding, our war would be crushed, and our tiny rebellion would just be another half paragraph reference in the history books. Keep also in mind we only secured a portion of the needed money and were forced to make daring raids in order to capture arms and supplies to keep it going. This is the truth. We were partially funded and still broke.

Sorry to burst the OP's bubble. The country was built on freedom and the war funded for political reasons.

Well, now that my post-ban is lifted; does anyone else have any opinions on, or information to share in regard to this post:




reply to

post by Tamahu

Originally posted by PontiacWarrior
Its funny you mention this because this is exactly what is wanted, America's destiny was seen to be the next Atlantis. America was founded by men who were into occult/mysticism and such. Take "The Order of the Helmet" for example, a group that worshiped the Goddess as Pallas Athene, the Greek Goddess of Truth and Wisdom. It is this Goddess whose nineteen and a half foot tall bronze and platinum form now stands atop the Capitol building, gazing eastward, as the "Statue of Freedom" in Washington D.C. . The symbols of ancient gods and paganism is all around us.

The Moors claim that they were also here before Columbus, and that many pre-Columbian American tribes practiced Moorish/Masonic Rites.


The Swastika/Navajo Carpet


American Indian Symbolism




[edit on 3-2-2008 by Tamahu]

reply to post by LDragonFire


Just a thought, but, what if the invasion occured in ancient times and the take over has been a slow process which is only now coming to fruition, but, people are so far from the real truth that even if they were told they would not believe it.

They say history repeats itself. I have read that it started in Rome which is why the scriptures were hid in caves and some were buried and the true Christians were fed to the lions. The finger points to the Roman pagans who mixed Christianity with their deities and called it religion.

This link has the names of the pagan deities.
www.pantheon.org...

What is the name of the creature in the drawing? Also, did you notice the writing on it and do you know what it means? It looks like "goal" is written on the arm.



[edit on 12-3-2008 by Siren]