What happened to the people on the flights?

Hi everyone - this is my first post, I apologize if this has been discussed before.

Many people believe that the planes used on 9/11 were empty and remote controlled. Many people believe a missile, and not a loaded airplane hit the pentagon. My question is that in these scenarios, what happened to the passengers and flight crews?

Were they simply unloaded onto buses right at the airport, taken to a pit and shot?

Would there be footage from airport cameras of the aircraft taxiing to a remote section of the runway and being unloaded?

Would it be that easy for the trigger men to execute a few hundred of our own?

Would there be cell tower records tracking the movement of all those phone equipped passengers? Maybe they used a jammer - are there records of complaints from the other terminal passengers? or records from the cell towers themselves?

Originally posted by Viger
Would there be cell tower records tracking the movement of all those phone equipped passengers?

Now this would be very interesting information if we could get it and if it could be verified as genuine.

All right, it wouldn't prove the owners were with their phones, but if a cell tower track plotted a path that demonstrated the phones headed towards all four crash sites, it would be a reasonably fair assumption the passengers made it there too.

Howdy, and welcome to ATS.

Many folk do believe that the planes that hit the WTC were empty, and I am one of them.
I believe that one of the loose change videos says that two planes matching the descriptions of the planes that hit the WTC, ID numbers and all, were flown to Cincinnati or Cleveland and emptied there.
If the FBI was at the pentagon to take video from the nearby hotel within 15 minutes, I think they would have been at the Ohio airport in advance to take any video, if there was any at all. Since this was pre-9/11, I kind of doubt there was any video of any runways.

As to whether or not the folks are dead, I don't know. I suppose they might still be alive, being kept at any of the secret prisons that dot the country: at least until they aren't needed anymore.

I don't think it would be hard for someone to kill 200 or so Americans. It's probably his job to kill people, it would be like another day at the office to him.

Many of the United 93 victims came from this part of New Jersey - perhaps
you would come here and explain to all the family members what happened
to them.....

I would guess something similar to this happened...





Note it says they will be able to 'tell' the US people, via media, what happened rather than having to 'sell' the incident. Sound familiar? Just change a few place names and the whole damn thing sounds familiar...

The information in the citation below was announced by every TV station in Cleveland, Ohio, complete with video tape of the plane set far away from the terminal, on a distant stretch of runway. NASA sits directly across Route 480 from Cleveland Hopkins. Plus, the same citation information was also reported by the Cleveland Plain Dealer.

It was after the following citation was reported, by all local media, a spokesperson for the US bureaucracy denied it was Flight 93. Then the spin from the media became it was not Flight 93, which instead made a hairpin turn over Cleveland and headed southeast . I can see some members of some media outlets being wrong. But all of them? That would mean 5 TV station and Plain Dealer reporters on site all got it wrong, when filming and reporting Flight 93 was ordered to land by the FAA Cleveland center in Oberlin, Ohio .

www.rense.com...

"UAL Flight 93 Landed Safely
At Cleveland Hopkins Airport
Plane Lands In Cleveland - Bomb Feared Aboard
8-7-4

Reported by 9News Staff
Web produced by:Liz Foreman
9/11/01 11:43:57 AM

A Boeing 767 out of Boston made an emergency landing Tuesday at Cleveland Hopkins International Airport due to concerns that it may have a bomb aboard, said Mayor Michael R. White.

White said the plane had been moved to a secure area of the airport, and was evacuated.

United identified the plane as Flight 93. The airline did not say how many people were aboard the flight.

United said it was also "deeply concerned" about another flight, Flight 175, a Boeing 767, which was bound from Boston to Los Angeles.

On behalf of the airline CEO James Goodwin said: "The thoughts of everyone at United are with the passengers and crew of these flights. Our prayers are also with everyone on the ground who may have been involved.

"United is working with all the relevant authorities, including the FBI, to obtain further information on these flights," he said."

reply to post by thedman

Flight 93 wasn't mentioned, but I'll still tackle it.

I don't know what happened to the folks that were supposed to be on that flight. What I can tell you is that a plane did not wreck in Pa.



The story that the folks on the plane tried to take it back was just that: A feelgood story to raise the American peoples spirits. The crater in the ground in Pa was to deep for a 767.
If it was a real plane wreck, it would look something like this:

or this:

not this:

There are no discernable parts in any of the flight 93 photos. No engines, no fuselage parts, no landing gear, no tail section. Thats because a plane didn't wreck in pa on 9/11. A plane doesn't disintigrate when it hits the ground.


[edit on 24-12-2007 by jtb2008]

You're looking at a situation like the following;

1. Employ CIA assets to pose for pictures at airports, ATM's, release as images of the hijackers.
   
2. Infiltrate / use assets in ATC, FAA and NORAD to control tracking data of planes.
   
3. Use asset onboard the plane to flood the compartments with gas, and hookup remote control links.
   
4. Land plane at CIA locations. Execute, or use MKULTRA technologies to assign them new identities.
   
5. Launch drone planes, configured as per project northwood. Fit cloned ID beacons, and incendiaries.
   
6. Crash into WTC1+2, crash into Pentagon (reinforced with DU), crash into White House (if administration and uncontrolled elements of DOD don't shoot you down first).
   

My two cents.

reply to post by SteveR


That is an excellent description of Operation Northwoods. Of course, we did not have ATM machines in those days, but everything is accurate as planned in the 1960s. When the Pentagon and CIA were dead set on using it against Castro. JFK told them they could not do it.

How does anyone know what the wreckage should look like when they weren't there.
You can take a picture of any wreckage and it still doesn't prove that it's the same circumstance. A full tank of fuel is like a missile being launched at the target. But if you weren't there then you can't say what the outcome could be. Hindsight is a wonderful tool for conspiracy.

reply to post by Solarskye


We have a mammoth amount of documented history on aviation crashes. The alleged Filght 93 would have been the only plane to have crashed in plain sight, and left no identifiable plane parts, passenger bodies or remains, and luggage in all documented aviation history.

reply to post by OrionStars

Damn right! Star for you.
That was the point I was trying to make earlier; there was nothing where flight 93 "crashed." No seats or anything.
At most plane wrecks there are these things.

Originally posted by Solarskye

How does anyone know what the wreckage should look like when they weren't there.

Thanks for the post Solarskye. I have extensive experience flying and building airplanes. I also have experience investigating airplane accidents. I was also a subscriber to NTSB accident reports for at least 20 years.

Most of the accident research was to try and help me understand the reason for these accidents so I didn't make the same mistake myself.

It is because of this experience, that I accumulated over 40 years that I don't believe that any crash occured at Shanksville. Many don't agree with my assessment. Most of them don't have the experience I have.

You can take a picture of any wreckage and it still doesn't prove that it's the same circumstance.

There are certain parts of aircraft that cannot disintegrate particularly when they are the last pieces to arrive at the scene of an accident and have slowed considerably through the effects of 'telescoping' or 'compression'. As a matter of fact in most accidents including those that went straight in far out at sea, most parts are recovered, carefully pieced back together and a cause for the accident is found.

In the case of Shanksville, the Pentagon and the 2 World Trade Center crashes, very little was found. It could not have simply disintegrated or burned up so there must have been no airplane.

A full tank of fuel is like a missile being launched at the target. But if you weren't there then you can't say what the outcome could be.

Untrue. Once you know the heading, pitch and bank and speed of the crash you can pretty much tell exactly what should be remaining as far as parts of an airplane.

Hindsight is a wonderful tool for conspiracy.

I'm not sure what that means but it is not relevant to an aircraft accident investigation. But, experience, knowledge and investigative techniques are.

Thanks for the post and for your thoughts.

reply to post by jtb2008


Thank you.

I personally believe that the planes were empty, so that would beg the question, where did the passengers go? Well seeing how all evidence that may have been presented had two of the largest sky scrapers in the world fall down on top of it, there's no way to prove anything definitively about the fates of the passengers. Is it so hard to imagine that they were killed without being in the planes? not for me.

My take on what happened? Some black ops group dug a whole in the ground, lined every one up and squeezed the trigger. Nasty i know... sorry guys. There is no way to prove anything one way or the other. This whole discussion is based on speculation at this point, because we will probably never know the truth in our lifetime. We're talking about an American government that will go to all lengths to fulfill their agendas. Look how much money is being spent on war as we speak, look how many soldiers we've lost, they have no remorse any more. American lives don't mean anything to the people in power. How many senators sons are in the military at war? I'd venture to say not one, but i could be wrong.

It's not an easy pill to swallow, and i would expect that this discussion is gonna get some red bloods pretty upset, but our government doesn't deserve our trust any more.
Working men and women are getting walked all over, while the upper class elite, i.e. corporate chairmen with money, politicians, generals, rich people, are all sipping 40 year old scotch and laughing at us behind closed doors. I may be wrong, but i may be right. One thing is true though, people in our government were involved with every aspect of 9/11. It doesnt take a college degree to look at what took place and say "something is a little fishy about all this".

Originally posted by thedman
Many of the United 93 victims came from this part of New Jersey - perhaps
you would come here and explain to all the family members what happened
to them.....

Do you mean by this that no further questions should be asked, out of respect for the victims' families? If anything will show respect, it is finding out the truth to what really killed these people, or at least what really was behind it.

i do not think they are dead. probably in some prison somewhere. if they were killed after leaving the plane, would have made more sense to just leave them onboard. they would be just as dead and evidence for the public.

the best way to judge what is up, imho, is how did ted olson behave after the pentagon crash? for those who do not know, ted olson was our solicitor general, the top prosecutor at justice dept. his wife, barbara olson, was on that flight. now, if i am the number 1 prosecutor in the country and my wife was killed, would i not move heaven and earth and mountains who the hell killed her and why? i seem to recall that he was strangely quiet ofter the fact. i am not up on my d.c. gossip, but has any one heard about him dating any one since then? and considering who he is and his wife, would the powers that be risk pissing off one their own by killing his wife?

just some thoughts

happy holidays every one!

Apart from Ted Olsen - who bizarrely, was born on September 11th - and one or two other relatives of those who made calls, I don't recall reading much about relatives of the victims on the planes.

Have many of the passengers' relatives ever been identified and/or spoken publicly?

Originally posted by SteveR
You're looking at a situation like the following;

1. Employ CIA assets to pose for pictures at airports, ATM's, release as images of the hijackers.
   
2. Infiltrate / use assets in ATC, FAA and NORAD to control tracking data of planes.
   
3. Use asset onboard the plane to flood the compartments with gas, and hookup remote control links.
   
4. Land plane at CIA locations. Execute, or use MKULTRA technologies to assign them new identities.
   
5. Launch drone planes, configured as per project northwood. Fit cloned ID beacons, and incendiaries.
   
6. Crash into WTC1+2, crash into Pentagon (reinforced with DU), crash into White House (if administration and uncontrolled elements of DOD don't shoot you down first).
   

My two cents.

That is worth at least the 2.3 trillion dollars missing from the Pentagon, much less two cents !!

That is one of the most astute and concise, and likley, statements I have ever seen posted. Kudo's for a post I wish I had made!!

I believe that the passengers had to be executed: If even ONE of them were ever seen, photographed or found alive anywhere it would unravel the whole Nwocon coverup on the spot, and you know for damned sure that the people who were willing to murder over 3000 innocent people would not hesitate to add another few hundred to the total. Look at what they gain:

Vast fortunes from the corporate boondoggles rewarded due to wars,geopolitical territorial expansion and domination,petroleum prices skyrocketing with historic levels of graft and corruption at the highest levels, secrecy at levels never known in Oval office history, direct connection of the Vice President with the 9-11 plot ( see Norman Mineta's testimony ), and an FBI ignored by the CIA and obstructed internally as well, efforts to stymie and forestall any 9-11 investigation by the VP himeself to ranking senators, and physical and scientific evidence that proves that 9-11 was an intelligence operation by elements of the USA and Israel as well as Pakistan and perhaps others to inaugurate the PNAC plan for the new century.

These are the points that the official story believer's never want to discuss: They have to reach so far down into the bag of desperate excuses to satisfy their belief that it becomes a comedy, if not for the tragic underpinnings. The official story people are willing to accept changes in the laws of physics and hundreds, if not thousands, of ' inexplicable anomalies ' without a backward glance!! Blinders will do that..

If a detective is acessing a crime scene, and starts to see a pattern of facts that lead to a conclusion , it canot help him to find the right perpetrators when his supervisor demands that he ignore all sings of unusual activity by the suspects, instead regarding it all as ' coincidence '. No matter how incredible the odds, no matter how unlikley the excuse, it must be considered as valid as any proven and sensible answer. How could the poor detective make a case like that? Not being able to see odds beyond sense cripples the ability to reason.

As we determine who and what were involved in those events, we must realize that when 500 facts stand up and scream out for attention and contradict the prevailing fairy tale, they must not be discounted and explained away by ridiculous excuses and explanations that defy the odds; some people are so deeply in denial about the 9-11 events that they will accept any scenario, no matter HOW unlikley, as it satisfies their superficial intellect, evene though deep down they know that it does not satisfy the real and true knowledge of truth and reasonable assumptions.

Thanks again for a really good and practical look at a likley way it was done. Good post!!

Originally posted by coughymachine
Apart from Ted Olsen - who bizarrely, was born on September 11th - and one or two other relatives of those who made calls, I don't recall reading much about relatives of the victims on the planes.

Have many of the passengers' relatives ever been identified and/or spoken publicly?

Ted Olson: Shady liar. Here is why: He gave several differing statements as to his purported calls from his wife, and the circumstances all smell very bad. First, he said that she called from a seatback phone with a borrowed credit card. The reason she didn't have her own card while on a business trip, staying in hotels and buying plane tickets, etc? She ' forgot it '!! Left it home. So, she supposedly ' borrowed ' one from some unknown passenger. The passenger who let her call her husband instead of THEM calling THEIR loved ones must have been one accomodating soul!!
How generous to allow a total stranger to call HER loved ones in a highjacking..what a saint!!

Then, when certain 9-11 conspiracy buffs started pointing out that there was a great chance that there were no functioning airphones in seatbacks at the time, the story chagned: Now Ted said that she used a cell phone!! He said that she called TWO times and that he SPOKE to her both times.

The problem with that? At the trial of Zacharias Moussaoui in Federal court, the FBI testified that there were ZERO completed calls from that plane to Olson. There were TWO attempts, but one call lasted ' zero seconds ' and thus there was no possibility that Olson talked to anyone on that plane. Why did he say that he did? Why did he claim that his wife asked his ' what to tell the pilot", as if the pilot just gave up the cockpit and wandered back to the rear to sit sheepishly trying to tell the passengers what was up? is that logical or likley? No way.

But it reinforces the fairy tale that there were highjackers up front: No matter how ludicrous the story, if there is a chance in ten million that it might happen, it is grasped as the Gospel by the official story desperado's.

As far as the passengers families go, there has been a very unusual and curious silence from the vast majority of them: No lawsuits, no interviews, no questions, no comments. Many families settled for a few million and are strangely unavailable to be interviewed to this day. This reinforces for some the belief that at least some of the passengers may still be alive and coperating in some phony ' secret program ' to protect ' national security ', relying on their patriotism to assume and accept a new life, one in which they can never be discovered, for reasons explained to them I am sure to their satisfaction.

Others, like me, believe that all passengers were probably loaded onto one plane and flown out to sea and sent to Davey Jones Locker: Just a thought, but recall that the USS Washington was doing duty for the GAMES off NY that day and was supposedly the ship that launched the Navy helicopter seen at the Towers; perhaps they also, as part of the GAMES, shot down what they were told was an ' empty drone ' into the sea? Just a thought. In any case, we know what happened, we just have to tie up the loose ends. Until then, we must continue to educate those whose natural inclination toward self protection by denial of earth shattering realities keeps them from comprehending the plain truth right in front of us.