911...Seeing it as it is

I have, as an American, read and viewed thread after thread, and video after video, on every conceivable possibility as to what happened on 911.

From explosives, to aliens; to our own secret service, and to God only knows what.

But when one looks at all of the conspiracy theories and the manpower that it would have taken to pull it off, the scope of injustice perpetrated on the American people as a society, perhaps when one looks at what has happened to date, 911 was just a bad day in American history.

Sometimes you just have to call a spade a spade. We got nailed.
They won that battle, but they will lose the war.

19 Determined terrorists, who were under watch, who slipped past the system, and were able to pull off an attack on American soil, that mobilized the most powerful nation on earth.

That in doing so, they unknowingly brough attention to terrorist muslim fundamentalism and brought a sword upon themselves of which they could not imagine. They provoked a giant, and the giant swooped upon them with great wrath and vengeance....

As of this day, I have seen no credible testimony that anyone planted explosives. If they did, and if anyone who was American perpetrated that on our own people, then may God have mercy on their souls.

Does anyone here think that any man in this country, as a group of people taking oath to the protection and allegiance of this great nation would undertake a horrific task of this type and still call themselves American?

I once thought this. My bias and anger at the event made it so I couldnt see it any other way. My following of Jesus Christ said that I should forgive my enemy, but at the same time, I dont have to love their actions.

Whats done is done. Conspiracy against or within our nation or not, it appears it will never be known. But let that not stop us from carrying out a greater good and stopping that which is a greater evil, and that is the random killing and plotting of injuring innocent people around the world.

If one searches history for a historical pretext to our attacking potentially violent nations...It came to me in a dream interestingly enough...
I have found it in the Bible. In the Book of Esther as story about Xerxes, a persian ruler. In that book, any nation intending to attack the Israelites was to be struck down before it actually happened. It became a decree inside the Persian Empire, and of course it appears that has been long since forgotten.

While I do not advocate force, it is with reluctance, that I view military force as prudent in terms of defending against the hatred that seeks to destroy both its own people, and our American soldiers in the process. The Muslim extremist position is unwinnable.

911 was 19 men in planes, guided buy errant ideals, who just happened to get lucky. Nothing more then that. No Bombs. No Missiles. No Internal plot..

And if there was one...the Almighty God will deal with them.

Its time for America to shine. We are the worlds largest torch barer of Freedom, and while our ways arent always perfect, we do the best we can.

I found a lesser known quote by Jesus that makes me think of America...

The holy brotherhood of right must stand united in the stirring conflicts of the hour. 24 No matter whether they be Jews, Samaritans, Assyrians, or Greeks, they must tramp down beneath their feet all strife, all discord, jealousy and hate, and demonstrate the brotherhood of man. 25 Then to the ruler of the synagogue he spoke: he said, United in the cause of right we stand; divided we will fall.

United we Stand..Divided we fall..

Jesus is an American

Peace


[edit on 20-12-2007 by HIFIGUY]

In the crudest way of putting it, there are 2 sides to the story.

The first side:
One is that yes, there were hijackers(19 or less on board) who genuinely believed that they would be successful in 'their' plan of hitting the twin towers and the Pentagon.
They believed that nobody was on to them.
They were stupid and gullible to believe that they would be able to carry this out without the NSA knowing about it.
See what i mean by stupid? Stupid is to actually believe they were fully in control.

Now, the second side:
Yes, the 2 towers were hit by the hijacked planes.
And NO, they didnt come down, solely because of the 'fire'.
And this is where the NWO/Illuminati control freaks make their entrance in the picture.
Explosives were placed in the buildings.
Explosives were the thing that actually brought them down.
Explosives were what brought down WTC 7.
Controlled demolition IS what happened,
completely independant of those retarded hijackers.

You see, IF the buildings HADN'T come down, then it would have been much harder to prove that it was an 'Inside job'.

But WTC 7 WAS THE LIMIT. The absolute limit.
BS it is not an inside job.
BS, BS BS.

[snip].
Read the PNAC document-people for a New American Century and you will
find the plan -written in 1997.
You obviously ignore facts. Jesus was a dark-skinned Jewish man who stood up
to those who committed injustice. [snip]



Mod Edit - Removed remarks

Courtesy Is Mandatory

[edit on 21-12-2007 by elevatedone]

He is tired from the fight and wants to quit before major defeat.

All i got to say....

We're just getting warmed up. You have seen nothing yet.

You have yet to see what real people can and will do.

What a great time to be alive.

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
As of this day, I have seen no credible testimony that anyone planted explosives.

I'm certainly glad I don't depend on your judgment for
my legal matters.

503 witnesses to explosions

Firemen clearing out due to bomb found

I guess none of this is credible in your judgment.
Everyday thousands of people trust firemen with their lives
but you wouldn't trust them if they told you there was a bomb ??
How ridiculous ....

Originally posted by Electricneo
Your approach to put your head in the sand is weakminded.
Read the PNAC document-people for a New American Century and you will
find the plan -written in 1997.
You obviously ignore facts. Jesus was a dark-skinned Jewish man who stood up
to those who committed injustice. He was brave and heroic unlike you.

First off..are you talking about this PNAC?

PNAC's activities dwindled in 2005, and there have been no postings to its website in 2007.

and

From 2000 to 2005, PNAC received $241,735 in grants from several conservative foundations

They sound like a real Tiger..a whole 241,000 in 5 years? lol..

As far as Jesus is concerned, Jesus was a dark skinned Jewish man who was telling the Jews a new way, and they killed him for it.

He didnt do it for heroism, he did it out of love for us and the fullfillment of the scripture. To carry the burden of our sins so that we might have eternal life, and to show that death has no hold on us.

Worry less about your conspiracy, and more about the greater problems facing mankind of today such as:

600 Million Homeless
60 Million people who starve to death every year
6 Million Children that starve to death every year
47 Million Abortions every year
3700 American Abortions every day
40 Million South American Homeless children

and your worried about building 7 where exactly how many people died?

Jesus was about righting wrong, about recognizing the widows and the poor, he could care less about buildings..

Peace Bro.



[edit on 21-12-2007 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by IvanZana
What a great time to be alive.

There could be as many as 600 Million people that may disagree with you.

Dont you think we could make it a great day for all of humanity to be alive rather then chasing a smoking gun?

Which is the greater good?

Peace







[edit on 21-12-2007 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by SimonSays
I'm certainly glad I don't depend on your judgment for
my legal matters.

And it appears that you dont trust the very people that are in charge of arresting and prosecuting your alleged violators.

Do you really believe, of the 1000s of FBI agents, Secret Service, CIA, NSA, and God only knows how many other agencies, that if there was even the slightest inkling of foul play in building 7 that they would not do their duty? It goes without saying...

Originally posted by SimonSays
I guess none of this is credible in your judgment.

I have watched extensively the review by structural engineers and the moment by moment explanation of the internal loading of floors and subsequent destruction of the buildings.

The forces at work are mind boggling, and its a reminder of just how fragile some of these high rises and just how dangerous they can be when put under load or adverse conditions.

In Seattle, I witnessed the massive motion and sway of the viaduct. It was uncanny to see concret move as though it was rubber, this way and that.
Its not hard to understand liquification after witnessing something like that..and thats what the towers did. A standing liquification under collapse.

I was in the recent flood here in the northwest, and I couldnt believe the massive power of water. Water that turned entire bridges 90 degrees.

Check this link in regards to Scientific American and some structural Engineers analysis.

911research.wtc7.net...

Via two simple models, Kausel was able to determine that the fall of the upper building portion down onto a single floor must have caused dynamic forces exceeding the buildings’ design loads by at least an order of magnitude. But the alleged models have never been published. He also performed some computer simulations that indicate the building material fell almost unrestricted at nearly the speed of free-falling objects. "The towers' resistive systems played no role.

The forces of fire, water, concrete and steel that is creating enormous pressures cascading on top of itself, does what no man may have imagined. After all, when was the last time you saw buildings of that scale fall? They were tubes, with Floors inside them. The weight coupled and collapsed the structure inward..

Had the building been of any other design, the disaster and the possible falling of the buildings to one side could have killed many more. Its a miracle only 3000 were lost.

Originally posted by SimonSays
Everyday thousands of people trust firemen with their lives
but you wouldn't trust them if they told you there was a bomb ??
How ridiculous ....

There was mass confusion, and rapid speculation in moments of panic.
There were some fireman that reported explosions in the basement of the twin towers. It was speculation bordering on caution, or perhaps they were trying to move people quickly, or, even more so...he just didnt know.

It neither proves, or disproves the existence of a bomb.

Peace



[edit on 21-12-2007 by HIFIGUY]

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
....... perhaps when one looks at what has happened to date, 911 was just a bad day in American history.

Increasing number of people are waking up everyday, everyhour , and every minute, who will disagree with that simplistic view.
There IS definitely MORE going on than meets the eye.
And the truth is VERY hard to swallow, which is why it is understandable that people just cant come to grips with it.

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
911 was 19 men in planes, guided buy errant ideals, who just happened to get lucky. Nothing more then that. No Bombs. No Missiles. No Internal plot.

What can i say, i believe otherwise.
'Controlled demolition' and 'Inside Job' is at the centre of my stance.

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
Its time for America to shine. We are the worlds largest torch barer of Freedom, and while our ways arent always perfect, we do the best we can.

IF Ron Paul is elected, then that is possible.
IF Alex Jones and other TRUE HEROES like him, and there are a LOT, are given coverage in the media, then the good people of America snd the rest of thw world will see, and decide for themselves what the truth IS, and that they were lied to.
But, the media isint innocent.
Again, the media IS an accessory to the conspiracy, such is the truly sad state of affairs, not just in your country, but here in India too.

Dear friend, this is is SO BIG, it encompasses us ALL , the free human beings on this glorious Earth.
Either we ALL fight and rise up to find out what really happened, demand a new investigation, or we will face the consequences of putting our head in the sand.



Edit: the quoting thing is hard, lol.


[edit on 21-12-2007 by vladmir]

[edit on 21-12-2007 by vladmir]

Originally posted by HIFIGUY
As of this day, I have seen no credible testimony that anyone planted explosives.

What about the angled core sections that the found at ground zero?
Thermite and the WTC collapse
Scroll to the bottom of the page to see a picture of melted angled core sections.

What about the fact that bomb dogs were taken out of the WTC before 9/11? What were they afraid they would find?Bomb dogs at WTC
Thats some pretty damning evidence in my book.
Placing bombs in the buildings would have taken a while, and they couldn't take a chance of the dogs finding them.

It's Project for a New American Century. Around page 93 where it says and I'm paraphrasing
"We need another Pearl harbor to implement our plan."
Therefore go back and try again, please excuse the mistake.
I assumed people wrote it perhaps the fact that they will be re-incarnated as dung beetles
for the next 20 million centuries due to bad karma had me emphasize that as of now they are still people.

Originally posted by Electricneo
It's Project for a New American Century. Around page 93 where it says and I'm paraphrasing
"We need another Pearl harbor to implement our plan."
Therefore go back and try again, please excuse the mistake.

Theres a big difference between " Implement our plan " and

Exerpt from Rebuilding Americas Defenses

the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and industrial policy will shape the pace and content of transformation as much as the requirements of current missions.

One must read the whole document, and not merely the buzz words and the shortened sound bite.

What this document is speaking of is the snale like progression of defense development and then compares it to the breakneck pace that a catylizying event might have.

They are analyzying systems, needs, budgets, perceived threats, percieved needs and looking at current budgets in various sectors of defense is all.

Here is the section in its entirety. There is no plan, its merely a reference to contrasting rates of development...peace time vs a catalyzing event such as Pearl Harbor and its effect on modernization.

Its like comparing your running speed when your exercising, versus when your being chased by a bear...

Further, the process of transformation, even if it brings revolutionary change, is likely to be a long one, absent some catastrophic and catalyzing event – like a new Pearl Harbor. Domestic politics and industrial policy will shape the pace and content of transformation as much as the requirements of current missions. A decision to suspend or terminate aircraft carrier production, as recommended by this report and as justified by the clear direction of military technology, will cause great upheaval. Likewise, systems entering production today – the F-22 fighter, for example – will be in service inventories for decades to come. Wise management of this process will consist in large measure of figuring out the right moments to halt production of current-paradigm weapons and shift to radically new designs. The expense associated with some programs can make them roadblocks to the larger process of transformation – the Joint Strike Fighter program, at a total of approximately $200 billion, seems an unwise investment.

The closing arguement on the document basically states that if we sit on our hands with our current systems and dont do anything, that we could fall behind, potentially putting our country at risk.

The Broader term of this paper of course supports defense spending, but in no way advocates or postulates a position of war to achieve its end.

Peace

Global leadership is not something exercised at our leisure, when the mood strikes us or when our core national security interests are directly threatened; then it is already too late. Rather, it is a choice whether or not to maintain American military preeminence, to secure American geopolitical leadership, and to preserve the American peace

[edit on 22-12-2007 by HIFIGUY]