And to think some people don't really know what this is about

If what was being said was really the reason for going to war, we should have never gone. A smart nation would say �You have no proof of WMD, Osama bin Laden said 9/11 was about our support for Israel and we can think of a couple of other reasons why you�d like control of that country [cough]� and be done with it. They would have swart that fraudulent president from their steps. When a president has been a member of a secret society, you don�t let him run your country. No; and again no, you don�t risk a civilization like that. Be done with him we would.

But� the circumstances have panned out a little differently. No one can really swart him, no one wanted him in. America wanted the Democrats. Bush stole the election, plain and simple, bad a� boom, bad a� Bing. Now it seems like the whole election for 2004 is �Republicrat�. It�ll come down to Bush and Kerry, and they�re both members of Skull and Bones. Oh, Jesus. It�s a nation in captivity�

Maybe it�s for the best, in this century resources mean power. Do you really think a Democratic peacenik like Wesley Clark who actually wants to help things on a national level would invade an entire peninsula? Face it, if America doesn�t take the moolah that those states are sitting on, either Russia or China will. The Zionists in Israel were in trouble too, but everything changed after 9/11. It seems the New World Order, Illuminati, whatever you want to call it, or more like a movement that�s been rolling since 1880, is really working out.

I really thought, as a dominion species, we could have progressed further than this, but it seems more like we�re degenerating, and we can never trust the idiot civilians to rise up and stop the unnecessary bloodshed, all they want to do is joke about it on Tough Crowd with Collin Quinn. I suppose I really don�t mind the wars, they�re a part of nature, I just mind that the Zionists are winning, not us.

well, interesting post, however, IMHO we didn't come over here just for WMD. Saddam has been defying sanctions for the past ten years after we were there the first time. Among other things. And he would have continued to do so. If by moolah, you mean oil, we arn't stealing it, never have, and arn't going to. China sure as hell wouldn't make a move for it, and russia has enough of thier own problems to try and get it. I'm not 100% for this war, but we are already here, so i'll just have to deal with it.

What about those pipelines from Afghanistan?

They'll take the oil from Iraq eventually, don't you worry.

Just because countries violate certain sanctions, does not mean you invade them, that would be ludicrous. There is a larger meaning to all of this.

www.axisoflogic.com...

No one wanted him in???

contrary opin. i think Bush got more than a handfull of votes because, in the back of the voters mind- they thought Bush would go back to Iraq and rectify 'unfinished business'

the conservative citizens all expected to have a champion in moral/religious issues (there are 20-30 issues from the 10 commandments to gay marriages) in the executive branch

considering all the compelling factors surrounding Iraq/Saddam & continued security for Americans first and maintaining global strategies a close second...establishing a regime change was necessary

only now, after precieved immediate threat is gone, and nothing has actually been instantly resolved-> as the process of change takes time

i was just thinkin...

if we look back on a war a few hundred years ago, we think about what it achieved, not how many people were lost. if the war hadnt had happened, we wouldnt be where we are today (get ur own examples )

because we're living through the iraq war, we're nitpicking because a few lives were lost. as sick and as harsh as that may sound, loss of life is expected and NEEDED to achieve worldwide peace. (or as close to it as possible).

i dont give a # if america are making money from another countries oil. (not that they are). what matters is the people of that country. theyve been saved from saddams vicious regime.

i find it sickening that so many people are sittin on their arses at home moaning about tiny things like this whole "45 minute" crap. DO SOMETHING HELPFUL AND CONSTRUCTIVE FFS.

DONATE TO THE RED CROSS!!!!

"oh yes, we're so kind. we're sticking up for the POOR victims of BUSHES war!!"
no, ure not, ure wasting time u arrogant twats. if u really cared so much about them, ud stop moaning and plan a trip to iraq to help the reconstruction.



just had to vent that.... sorry if it was wondering off topic...

i respect noone on this board as much as medic.

medic, i love you.

Originally posted by medic
well, interesting post, however, IMHO we didn't come over here just for WMD.

that was the reason given. revisionism is rampant these days.
this is about oil, money and human souls. like all wars, it is engineered from behind a bankers desk. it is harsh of me to tell you this(although i KNOW you won't beLIEve it), while you're up to your armpits in sand and blood, but the fact is, society is controlled by black magicians, and you are in their thrall.
love and pray for your enemy, and there may be hope for all of us.

Originally posted by GeniusSage
DONATE TO THE RED CROSS!!!!

the templar cross?

Hey GeniusSage thanks....i'm flattered...I thought most people looked at me as a dumbasss. Appreciated much. Billybob, your right, but we all know this was about other things. I would agree with you on oil, except that I don't see how we are benefiting from it. I mean you could say it was to stabilize the oil market in this part of the world, but even then, my wife says gas prices are still going up. Money I could see, because wars seem to promote the economy(lately, and I could be wrong),and i don't quite see where human souls fit in. As faras what I'd beLIEve? you'd be surprised what I find out, being over here and all. The pray for my enemy part? don't really understand that either. And there is hope for us all. It's just slow coming.

Originally posted by medic
The pray for my enemy part?

just something jesus said. he a was smart, well-connected guy.

Originally posted by GeniusSage
i was just thinkin...

if we look back on a war a few hundred years ago, we think about what it achieved, not how many people were lost. if the war hadnt had happened, we wouldnt be where we are today (get ur own examples

)

because we're living through the iraq war, we're nitpicking because a few lives were lost. as sick and as harsh as that may sound, loss of life is expected and NEEDED to achieve worldwide peace. (or as close to it as possible).

i dont give a # if america are making money from another countries oil. (not that they are). what matters is the people of that country. theyve been saved from saddams vicious regime.

i find it sickening that so many people are sittin on their arses at home moaning about tiny things like this whole "45 minute" crap. DO SOMETHING HELPFUL AND CONSTRUCTIVE FFS.

DONATE TO THE RED CROSS!!!!

"oh yes, we're so kind. we're sticking up for the POOR victims of BUSHES war!!"
no, ure not, ure wasting time u arrogant twats. if u really cared so much about them, ud stop moaning and plan a trip to iraq to help the reconstruction.



just had to vent that.... sorry if it was wondering off topic...

So when is your flight leaving for Iraq?

Originally posted by medic
Hey GeniusSage thanks....i'm flattered...I thought most people looked at me as a dumbasss.

Nope. I respect you alot also. For all of these peopel that are going either way on the issue of the war, you're actually there. I respect your opinion on this above all others.

It's easy for us armchair generals to focus too much on the general and not enough on the armchair.

"So when is your flight leaving for Iraq?"

its not.
i was just posting my opinions on the people who claim to want the best for the people of iraq yet they still go on nitpicking at the governments past decisions.

honestly, if i could afford it and if i wasn't so wrapped up in my own, relativly fantastic life, i would get over to iraq and see what i can do to help out.

Originally posted by GeniusSage
"So when is your flight leaving for Iraq?"

its not.
i was just posting my opinions on the people who claim to want the best for the people of iraq yet they still go on nitpicking at the governments past decisions.

honestly, if i could afford it and if i wasn't so wrapped up in my own, relativly fantastic life, i would get over to iraq and see what i can do to help out.

Great answer, I'm glad everything is good for you. You know the problem for most of is:

1. We don't like the fact that Bush stole the election.
2. We don't like the fact that our system was used like a toilet after our forefathers fought and died for it.
3. We don't like the fact that we have been lied to continuously by the Bush administration over and over that means to me that the Bush administration sees us all as easily manipulated and stupid.
4. We don't like the fact that Bush ignored the UN and went in anyway and we are footing the entire bill.
5. We dont like the fact that the Bush Administration made is us all look like a bunch of idiots by what was presented to the UN as evidence of WMD. I watched the BBC journalists laughing saying, surely the American people dont believe this.
6.We don't like the fact that now that there are no WMD its all being spun off as a humanitarian effort, when the bottom line is their just trying to cover their a$$ and once again think we are all going to buy it.
7. There is plenty more, but I'm tired of typing.

Perhaps for you the main goal was going into to save the Iraqie people, but that was not what was presented as the reason by the Bush administration, if we had presented that as the reason we might have gotten UN sanction, but I think the attempt at getting the sanction was just a ruse to say we tried, I don't think it was wanted at all, had we gotten UN sanction then they the UN would be in charge of the oil wells and contracts, etc..

Originally posted by medic
well, interesting post, however, IMHO we didn't come over here just for WMD. Saddam has been defying sanctions for the past ten years after we were there the first time. Among other things. And he would have continued to do so. If by moolah, you mean oil, we arn't stealing it, never have, and arn't going to. China sure as hell wouldn't make a move for it, and russia has enough of thier own problems to try and get it. I'm not 100% for this war, but we are already here, so i'll just have to deal with it.

But Isareal has been ignoring UN resolutions against them for decades... why dont america invade israel?

1. We don't like the fact that Bush stole the election.

Oh God, not this again.

dailybeacon.utk.edu...

"And the irony in all of this is that both candidates' strategies were way off. Gore only wanted recounts in 4 heavily Democratic counties, but the study shows that Bush still would have won by 225 votes. However, if the ballots had been recounted in the strict manner that Bush wanted, Gore would have won by 105 votes ONLY IF "optical scanner overvotes showing clear intent were included" (source: LA Times). If all overvotes had been included Bush would have won by 908 votes. The United States Supreme Court later stepped in to stop the recount, but the study also showed that if the recounts had gone forward, with all 67 counties, Bush still would have won by at least 389 votes. Whew. There are a million and one scenarios like the ones mentioned-some with Gore winning, most with Bush winning. "

Bush didn't steal the election. The recounts showed and the Supreme Court decided that Bush had won. that fact that you don't like him does not change the fact that the voting process declared him the winner.

In fact, had we recounted the way Bush wanted, Gore would have won. If anything, Gore is the one who tried to steal the election.

So please, don't bring this up again, the horse is dead, and right now you're beating it with a shovel.

Isreal(sp) has a much differen't track record than Iraq. Saddam has continued to do this for years, before and after the first gulf war. He threatened the lives of UN weapons inspectors when they were there, and at one piont they were held in thier vehicles outside a complex in Iraq, and not allowed to get out, for fear of being shot. He claimed they had WMD, and threatened to use them. On this side of the world I recently heard that the scientists he had working on his WMD lied to him about the development of them, because they couldn't make them and didn't want him to kill them. Maybe it's true and maybe it's not. I don't get to watch a whole lot of TV here, so I don't know. But Isreal is a whole differen't ball game from Iraq, IMHO. Someone said somthing about the pipe lines running to Afghanistan; the oil in those lines is crude. Meaning that after stealing it they would have to have a place to refine it. It wouldn't be worth it for someone to steal it barrel by barrel from there. And Afghanistan is hardly in the position to make any moves on it. Agian this is just how I see things.

Originally posted by Esoterica

1. We don't like the fact that Bush stole the election.

Oh God, not this again.

dailybeacon.utk.edu...

"And the irony in all of this is that both candidates' strategies were way off. Gore only wanted recounts in 4 heavily Democratic counties, but the study shows that Bush still would have won by 225 votes. However, if the ballots had been recounted in the strict manner that Bush wanted, Gore would have won by 105 votes ONLY IF "optical scanner overvotes showing clear intent were included" (source: LA Times). If all overvotes had been included Bush would have won by 908 votes. The United States Supreme Court later stepped in to stop the recount, but the study also showed that if the recounts had gone forward, with all 67 counties, Bush still would have won by at least 389 votes. Whew. There are a million and one scenarios like the ones mentioned-some with Gore winning, most with Bush winning. "

Bush didn't steal the election. The recounts showed and the Supreme Court decided that Bush had won. that fact that you don't like him does not change the fact that the voting process declared him the winner.

In fact, had we recounted the way Bush wanted, Gore would have won. If anything, Gore is the one who tried to steal the election.

So please, don't bring this up again, the horse is dead, and right now you're beating it with a shovel.

Actually with the election coming up I find it very relevent. I also find it just a bit too ironic that the state in question his brother just happened to be governor.

Originally posted by GeniusSage
i was just thinkin...

if we look back on a war a few hundred years ago, we think about what it achieved, not how many people were lost. if the war hadnt had happened, we wouldnt be where we are today (get ur own examples

)

We only think of what it achieved f we won. Do you look back on what Vietnam 'achieved'? No.

The problem with the current war is that is a war based on bull#. Let's assume, as the power that be say, Saddam was a danger to us. Draw up a list of countries dangerous to yourself and Saddam certainly ain't the top of the list. Therefore, anyone who uses that reason to start a war is lying. Then you have to ask yourself, why are they lying?

Every reason that has been given for invading Iraq can be FAR better applied to a number of other nations. That means only one thing is for sure. The reason behind the war certainily wasn't any one of the reasons given.

This war has become a Pandoras box, which despite the bull# the Government speak, WAS, before we all got involved,was tightly locked to the outside world.